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Futaba vs. JR

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Old 08-14-2003, 12:15 AM
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craigman
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Default Futaba vs. JR

I have a Chevy vs. Ford question.
Why is most of the TOC guys using JR radio's? Only a handful are using Futaba. I know this a Chevy/Ford question, but there MUST be a real answer. Is one easier to program than the other? There's got to be some logical reason.
Any idea's?

Thanks,
Craigman
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Old 08-14-2003, 12:45 AM
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ChuckAuger
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Default Re: Futaba vs. JR

Originally posted by craigman

Why is most of the TOC guys using JR radio's? Only a handful are using Futaba. There's got to be some logical reason.
Any idea's?

Thanks,
Craigman
Yeah, the logical answer is 13 out of 21 pilots used Futaba 9Z's in the 2002 TOC.

2002 TOC Pilots

Answer your question??
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Old 08-14-2003, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: Futaba vs. JR

Originally posted by craigman
I have a Chevy vs. Ford question.
Why is most of the TOC guys using JR radio's? Only a handful are using Futaba. I know this a Chevy/Ford question, but there MUST be a real answer. Is one easier to program than the other? There's got to be some logical reason.
Any idea's?

Thanks,
Craigman
JR paid, I mean sponsered, them to use their radios...
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Old 08-14-2003, 02:03 AM
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Default Futaba vs. JR

In all fairness, Futaba sponsored their pilots as well. If you go back many years, you will also find that some of the pilots have changed sponsors (radios, engines, airplanes, etc.). I believe at their skill level, the top of the line radio equipment they chose to use is not an issue although they may individually have a favorite. The logical reason may be more related to the most favorable sponsorship package.
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Old 08-14-2003, 02:18 AM
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Default Futaba vs. JR

MPX,
that's what i thought it might be about. Sponsorship. It seems these days, JR is doing a little more sponsoring.
I was wondering if one was easier to use than the other.
But it seems it might be about money!
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Old 08-14-2003, 02:55 AM
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ChuckAuger
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Default Futaba vs. JR

Originally posted by craigman
MPX,
that's what i thought it might be about. Sponsorship. It seems these days, JR is doing a little more sponsoring.
I was wondering if one was easier to use than the other.
But it seems it might be about money!
So given the fact that more pilots in the 2002 TOC used Futaba, for whatever reason, how do you stand by your statement that only a handful used Futaba??

If JR is doing a little more sponsoring, why did they only sponsor 7 pilots in the 2002 TOC compared to 13 for Futaba??

Keep in mind this isn't my argument, you started it.
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Old 08-14-2003, 03:04 AM
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craigman
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Default Futaba vs. JR

I never wanted to start a war. I'm a Futaba man myself.
It just seems that when i cruz the net, it seems that the majority of the big planes have the big logo "JR" stamped on them. I was just wondering why. I was wondering if one is better than the other, or if one was easier to program, or if one has better customer service than the other. Thats all. You keep refering to 2002. I'm refering to today, not a year ago...
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Old 08-14-2003, 03:42 AM
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ChuckAuger
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Default Futaba vs. JR

Sorry, my bad. You said:

Why is most of the TOC guys using JR radio's?
The 2002 TOC was the most recent TOC and there will not be a 2003 TOC, maybe never another TOC as we knew it. The fact is that I was stating facts from the most recent TOC, since you had specifically used that reference in your original post.

Sorry if I misunderstood what you meant by "TOC guys", I was talking about guys that flew in the most recent TOC..I guess you weren't.
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Old 08-14-2003, 04:11 AM
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Default Futaba vs. JR

Neither is heads and shoulders better than the other. They are both world class radios, each with some beneftis and/or features over the other. But in the end, either one will do whatever any TOC level pilot can throw at them, as evidenced by the caliber of pilots flying both radios, and even switching between them.

I fly both radios, and have done a feature to feature comparison between the 9ZWCII and the 10X after flying them for a season each. There are some tradeoffs to be made, but neither has the upper hand in my opinion. Some pilots will need 10 proportional channels on the 10X, while others would rather have the additional switch assignments on the 9Z, and so on. But I could match each channel related function on the 9Z with a corresponding function or mixer on the 10X, and visa versa. More info if you want it at ---> Futaba 9Z and JR 10X comparison

If a world class TOC pilot, jet jockey, pattern pilot, or scale master can top the rosters with either radio, I would think either one would be just fine for us lowly pilots

Which is better? Hmmmm. Neither! Its just which do you prefer IMHO.
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Old 08-14-2003, 04:22 AM
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craigman
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Default Futaba vs. JR

sfaust,
Did you find one radio easier to progam than the other? I'm moving up to the giant scale stuff and need one that is easy to program, and must be reliable. I keep reading (on rcu) that they're seem to be a lot of Matchbox problems out there. Although that seems to be a easy way to move multiple servos.
Thanks for the reply.
Craigman
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Old 08-14-2003, 11:07 AM
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Steve Campbell2
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Default Futaba vs. JR

<<...I could match each channel related function on the 9Z...>>

How about AFR? I'm interested to know how you did that on a 10X.

Craigman, you've received all excellent replies here. I too have experience with both. Much hay has been made about the supposed difficulty of understanding the 9Z interface. That is simply so much BS. It is actually very intuitive. Yes, there are three pages of "menus". The 10X has three pages of code numbers.

Once you learn the code numbers, the 10X might be a tad faster to get where you want to be, since you do not have to first go to that specific menu page. An example:

You want to adjust your throttle curve. On the 10X, you key in Code 18 and you're there. On the 9Z, you first must go to the Conditions Menu page, then hit TCV. What's better for you; letters or numbers?

The 10X manual is a bit more clearly written. The 9Z manual is NOT the convoluted nightmare some would have you believe, but it does require one to closely read what is there. The moral of that story is that those who want plug'n'play have no business with either of these radios.

Bottom line, after many years with the JR and just over a year with the 9Z: if you are staying with one model type, either radio is good. The 9Z has much more software crammed into it, with dedicated programs for three major types ("regular" fixed wing, helicopter, sailplane). JR stubbornly refuses to do this, and continues to offer a fixed wing version and a heli version. IOW, the 9Z is a more flexible radio in terms of what it will handle. If you don't cross-dress, it is not an issue.

To me, the 9Z is superior because of a few little niceties, such as switch assignability, that the 10X simply does not have. I also have found the AFR function to be a terrific boon, and don't recall any similar capability on the 10-series; which is why I asked the question of sfaust.

Want to be further confused? The long-awaited Futaba 12 channel is a reality, and could be available as early as next year.

Oh, one more thing; the 10X is a true 10-channel radio. For all practical purposes, the 9Z is an eight channel, with an auxillary ninth channel. The extra channels are important to scale and jet guys, I'm told; and may be for the big aerobatic planks as well. As to reliability, either radio has no issues there. Servos, however, are another question. There have been a LOT of problems with JR digital servos in helicopters. Airplane guys haven't had many complaints that I know of.

This topic has been beat to death, but constantly resurfaces as guys like you decide to move up to the top of the line radio gear, and want to cut through all the noise so you can decide how to get the most bang for your buck.

Good luck, and keep up the research.

Steve
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Old 08-14-2003, 05:20 PM
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JohnW
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Default Futaba vs. JR

I'd agree that neither the 10X or the 9Z is an overall clear cut winner; however, Steve C made about the exact point I was going to make.

The software on the 9Z is clearly superior to the 10X; However, for applications that need a lot of proportional channels, the 9Z falls short of the 10X. On a personal note, I prefer the beeper on the 10X as it is nice and loud. Both are very nice radios.

As for sponsored pilots using one radio over another... follow the money baby. Quique claims his flying is smoother with the 10X in all the JR adds, yet he placed higher when he was flying Futaba. He also claims it took minutes on JR to do what took hours on a Futaba... yeah right. Not picking on Quique, awesome pilot... just poking fun at the marketing machines that put words in the pilots mouths.
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Old 08-14-2003, 07:46 PM
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Steve Campbell2
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Default Futaba vs. JR

Mr. Somenzini needed a full-time job to be able to stay in the US on his visa. The Empire said sure, but you gotta move to Illinois and work out of the home office. Horizon said no sweat, and you can live where you want to.

He didn't want to move to Illinois.

THAT is why he "switched". The propaganda ads where he swoons over "easier programming", etc., ad nauseum, are nothing more than a marketing type's wet dreams.

And THAT, among others, is a major reason why I "switched". Those Horizon guys are beginning to believe their own marketing hype, instead of busting a hump to catch up with Futaba.

That may not be a fair accusation, since JR IS a Japanese-owned firm. But Horizon is definitely a major customer/distributor, and should have some clout with what JR does and does not do.

Ah, whatever...

Steve
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Old 08-15-2003, 04:40 AM
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MO_Radio_Tech
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Default Futaba vs. JR

This is Ford vs Chevy. Both are good radios. I have a 10X Heli that I use to fly planes and Helis with. Most planes don't need any more programming than the 10X Heli has with mixes. Futaba programming is just different, not harder or easier. I do prefer JR gimbals, but this is just preference.

I have heard of problems with the JR 8411 used on Helicopters, but not so much on planes. I have used the digital JR 8231's that came with my 10X in 3 different heli's (crashed each one to bits!!!) and other than broken gears, the servos still work like new. Great servos. That new 8311 servo is great, just too expensive for me.

There is no trouble with the JR Matchbox. Just suspicious people blaming a new unfamiliar product.
Futaba is the big dog on the block and everybody loves to gather around and bash JR, the underdog.

JR and Futaba BOTH make fine products. So do hitec and Airtronics. I have heard good things about tracker and multiplex, but I have yet to see them.
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Old 08-15-2003, 05:14 AM
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Default 12 Channel?

Any pics of the Futaba 12 channel? Any more details?

THis has been a rumour for enough time for them to have designed it twice over by now.
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Old 08-15-2003, 04:08 PM
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Steve Campbell2
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Default Futaba vs. JR

No pics. I do know a few "details" but have been asked not to divulge them.

I do know that this radio is aimed squarely at the jet and scale guys who supposedly need all these extra channels.

A pre-production prototype should be in the US by fall. I understand the plan is for a release next year, probably at Toledo. No rumor; it exists.

Steve
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Old 08-15-2003, 04:14 PM
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Steve Campbell2
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Default Futaba vs. JR

sfaust,

Still waiting to hear how you duplicated AFR on a 10X...

Steve
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Old 08-15-2003, 05:28 PM
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Default Futaba vs. JR

Originally posted by Steve Campbell2

I do know that this radio is aimed squarely at the jet and scale guys who supposedly need all these extra channels.
Thanks steve,

I am a jet guy and we defintiely need these channels. I have been thinking aboutt he Multiplex EVO 12, but I will hold out to see if this Futaba is real, primarily out of a hope they will have a 50 Mhz version.
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Old 08-15-2003, 08:48 PM
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Default Futaba vs. JR

JR has been manufacturing 12 channel radios for years, for Graupner. Goodness knows why it is taking them so long to produce them under their own label.

Harry
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Old 08-16-2003, 08:22 AM
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Default Futaba vs. JR

HarryC, I'm with you ... *IF* only JR would actually release the MC line under the JR line (complete with all optional accy's, eg, voice record module, tach, etc), that would make my day and empty my pocket book (not that I haven't been looking at the MC-22/24).

fwiw in the US Horizon/JR's stance is that (paraphrased) US flyers can't understand complicated radios and rather fly than to tinker around with radios - basically radios have to be dumbed-down for the US market (there's a whole 9X thread on that, as the MX-22 version seems to have more customization)
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Old 08-16-2003, 08:52 PM
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Default Pilots sponsored by radio companies

I hereby offer my mediocre flying skills to any and all radio companies. I will insist on a new, top of the line, radio every year, choice of servos and a monthly allowance to purchase new aircraft, travel expenses and a small slush fund to be used at my discretion.
Steve Gibson
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Old 08-18-2003, 04:53 PM
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Default Futaba vs. JR

Futaba's 'buddy box' system sucks. A fair number of their radios are not geared to using another futaba tx as a slave. This is from the factory I understand, see following:

http://users.belgacom.net/TX2TX/

Apart from that both are on a par. I use JR, all are compatible with each other and the trainer cord is easy to make.

On On to the field
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Old 08-18-2003, 06:28 PM
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Steve Campbell2
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Default Futaba vs. JR

<<..Futaba's buddy system sucks..>>

Well, having used JR's and Futaba's systems for many years (and with no problems), I must say that the buddy system with a 9Z as a master is leagues above ANY system I have used. You can set it up so that any input from the master overrides what the student is doing, but you (the instructor) don't have to stand there keeping a switch engaged.

And all JR radios do not feature a trainer function, either. The 10X heli radio doesn't, which is why I didn't buy one. The 10X plank version might, I dunno. But wait; oh, yes, the comparable top-of-the-line Futaba radio has a trainer function AND software for all different types of models.

They (Futaba) did err when they made the trainer plug for the 9C square instead of round. A new 9C owner must buy another cord if he wants to use the 9C in a training capacity. I guess this is what you're referring to?

Steve
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Old 08-18-2003, 06:56 PM
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Default Futaba vs. JR

There are issues with using a Futaba / BrandX combo in buddy mode. I recently set up a buddy between my 9Z and a 4ch Hitec... what a nightmare. I won't even begin to explain the hurdles I had to jump to get that to work. However, one really can't expect Futaba to be compatible with other radio brands. Futaba is HUGE compared to other brands, if anything, the other brands should have an incentive to be compatible with Futaba, not the other way around.

As for Futaba/Futaba buddy systems, I've never seen one as powerful as a 9Z to 9Z. Miles above anything else I have ever seen. SteveC just barely touched on what you can do with a 9Z buddy system.
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Old 08-19-2003, 03:33 AM
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Default Futaba vs. JR

I tried yesterday to connect a SKYSPORT 4 to the following with no success:

One of the New 9 Channel Radios (PCM 1024 is emblazoned above the display)

6XAS

An older computer 7 Channel. FF7 I believe.

Perhaps the collection of owners present had it all wrong, a 6XAS worked fine with the 7 and 9 channel radios, but not with the basic 4 channel.

If anyone has any ideas I would be grateful, and so would my students.

I didn't know about the 10X having no trainer function, thank you. Means I stick with the 3810 for a bit longer.
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