guver

My Feedback: (325)

I'm going to add 2 planes to my hangar. Fockewulf and corvalis. I've been reading about having more than 4 channels and found a few good threads. Do I understand this correctly?

The corvalis has flaps (and lights) and the flaps will be on channel 6 (with a knob so it is variable) It's on the top left front face of the TX.
The fockewulf has flaps and retracts so the retracts will be channel 5 (with a switch) It's on the top left of the TX.

Upon reading I have a few questions too: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9549812

My RF sim has channel 5 labeled as D/R what's up with that? Retracts are channel 7 on the top right. The channel 6 flaps is on the right. Which is the preferred side? Is there a standard?

How does 7-9 channels work with only a 6 channel RX or vise-versa? I don't quite understand how to "use more channels" when seperating ailerons and/or flaps with seperate servos.
All mine use only 1 servo for each function right now , but which rx channel would I use if I had 2 aileron servos? How would the right stick control two channels? is this what is called mixing? and uses maybe 7-9 TX channels , but with a 6 channnel RX?

I just don't quite get it. []

I do understand the Trainer and DR switch and the channel 5 and 6 controls.
I think for now I'm cool with using channel 6 on the corvalis for the flaps. That's easy. ON the fockewulf I use 6 for flaps and 5 for retracts, that seems easy too. That'll get me going for next season with my Tactic 6 channel radio , but I'm thinking of using my 9 channel turnigy and am confused by the numerous options and all the switches.

Thanks to whoever explains this to me.

wcmorrison

My Feedback: (2)

First, you can put both aileron servos on a "Y" connector, just make sure the control arms are opposite of each other.  Under that configuration channel 1 will work for you.   That is the way a four channel tranny can handle fiver servos.

Second, to go to two channels to control the ailerons you must have a six channel receiver and at least six channels on  your transmitter.  Futaba users typically use channel 1 (normal aileron channel) and channel 6 for the other aileron servo.  You must then do some programming on the transmitter.  Your manual will tell how.  But you must enable the system so to speak.

A programmable tranny can also accommodate flaps with airlerons, these are known as "flaprons."  And this is a programmable feature you must also enable on your tranny.

Some trannys use channel 5 vice 6 for the second aileron (Hitec Aurora for instance).

If you are going to have additional features like retracts, separate flaps, you must have more channels.  So you will need a  nine channel tranny or even a 12 or 14 channel tranny (big bucks).  And you must have receivers that can read all those channels (more bucks).  Up scale trannys usually can accommodate such additional channels.  The more upscale trannys provided for DR, etc. on almost any channel you want to use.  Just like the same trannys can on 72 MGHz systems move between PCM and PPM transmissions.  The same upscale trannys allow you to go from type 1 to type 2, your choise so to speak. 

But  you are not gonna be able to have all those bells and whistles unless you upgrade to a tranny receiver package that can handle all the extra channels.

guver

My Feedback: (325)

All my planes so far have either 1 aileron servo (or a y adapter)

So If I understand this correctly (with 6 channels) I'd be limited to having flaps and retracts on my fockewulfe , OR if I wanted to seperate the aileron servos then I'd have to lose the retracts or the flaps right? I am limited to 6 functions.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

That is correct. And as far as which-switch-does-what It depends on your radio. A simple radio may give you a switch/knob for each aux channel, where a bigger radio will allow you to program any aux channel to any switch so you can customize which switch/knob does what depending on your own preference

guver

My Feedback: (325)

Alright, I think I got it. Maybe I confused myself. On RogerParrett 's post above. Does this sound right?

He's talking about using a 6 channel rx , yet when channels 1-6 are used , then beyond that the tx perhaps has a switch or know labeled as channel 7 or 8 or 9 is mixing flaps (channel 6) with elevator (channel 2) thus still only using a 6 channel RX. Why isn't this simply called a mix instead of "channel 7"

"Channel 8" or "switch labeled 8" on a TX may then be used for an actual channel on a 8 channel RX OR as a mix of any other channels on a 6 channel RX. I do realise we can program any switch to do any channel. I think what I didn't realise was that we can use more channels on our TX than we had on our RX.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I don't recall you ever indicating what transmitter and receiver you have. Except for a radio like the Futaba 8FG, you are limited to the number of channels the transmitter supports. If you only have a 6 channel receiver, you are limited to 6 channels.

Many transmitters default to having Switches, Knobs, Levers, or Buttons assigned to a particular channel. In some cases, you can Inhibit the channel assigned to that Switch and use that Switch for another purpose. Higher end transmitters give you that option. Lower end radios may not. In most cases, the Switches, Knobs, Levers, and Buttons are labeled with the name of the control surface and not the channel number.

If you only have a 6 channel radio and you want Ailerons, Flaps, Gear, Elevator, Rudder, and Throttle, you have no channels left. Generally, you would have to give up Gear and/or Flaps in order to mix two channels for either Dual Ailerons, Dual Elevators, or Dual Flaps.

Without knowing what equipment you have I guess I do not have any other advice.

guver

My Feedback: (325)

My Tactics are pretty easy since the Tx and RX are both 6 channels and simple and labeled.

My Turnigy 9x is 9 channels with a 3,6 or 8 channel RX. I suppose going along with the post by RogerParret , we will use the 9 channel TX with a 6 channel RX. It is programmable with mixes and such. I guess the concept of using MORE channels then the RX has is new to me.

Maybe my question should've been when using mixes with a 6 channel RX why is it called channel 7,8 and 9? Is it because we use those particular switches?

I have no confusion when using the same number of channels on the RX and TX , that's pretty simple.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I guess I am still confused. If you are using a Turnigy 9 channel transmitter with a 6 channel receiver, you cannot use channels 7-9 on the transmitter for any purpose. The number of channels on the receiver limits you to only those channels.

You can, however, plug one Aileron servo into the Aileron channel, the other Aileron servo into the Flap channel, and turn on the Flapperon mix to use the Ailerons as both Ailerons and Flaps, at the same time. The Ailerons would operate with the Aileron stick and the Flaps would operate with the Flap Knob or Flap Switch. If you have a Delta Wing aircraft, for example, you can plug one Aileron servo into the Aileron channel and the other Aileron servo into the Elevator channel and use the Ailerons as both Ailerons and Elevators. Either of these scenarios could be done with a 6 channel receiver.

guver

My Feedback: (325)

Snip from the post that confused me.

"For instance, lets say you have a "basic" trainer with 5 channels. Rud, Elev, Right Ailerion, Left Aileron, and throttle. With separate servos on each aileron, you can drop them like flaps (flaperons) during your landing approach. Since you have more lift when the flaps are dropped, you can reduce the throttle without stalling the plane and enjoy super slow landing approaches. After a while, you get tired of simultaneously having to control the elevator to counter the sudden rise of the plane when you drop the flaps. You'd like the radio to automatically adjust the elevator to compenstate for the flap-induced pitch, giving you a nice, steady approach. A more advanced radio - such as a 7/8 channel will do that - even though you still only need 5 channels.

How about the same above senario, but instead of manually adjusting a knob/lever to drop the flaps, you want to flip a switch and the plane's flaps SLOOOOOWLY drop and adjust the elevator simultaneously. The plane automatically slows, and you merely concentrate on keeping the approach straight. Now you are looking at a 9+ channel radio - again, still only using 5 channels.

Finally, same scenario as above, but you have a very short runway (or a very fast plane on approach), and once you touch down, you want to switch the throttle to idle (or off), and simultaneously (and very quickly) throw both flaps UP to act as speed brakes. Now you are possibly looking at a 12 channel system - and yep, still only using 5 channels"


I guess He's talking about using the extra features, programming or mixes of a 7-12 channel TX rather than actually using the higher channels of said TX.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

In the first scenario, you still use 5 channels. If the transmitter has the Programming, you can easily couple Elevator with flaps. No extra channels are needed.

In the second scenario, once again, if the transmitter has the Programming, you can assign a Switch, instead of a Knob, to operate the Flaps and slow the Flaps down to a Scale speed. No extra channels are needed.

The third scenario can also be accomplished with 5 channels.

The key to all of these scenarios is the amount of Programming in the transmitter. The number of channels available in the transmitter has to at least be the same as the number of channels in the receiver. The fact is that higher end transmitters, contain more sophisticated Programming choices and usually more channels, but it is the Programming that is the key. Many people buy higher end transmitters just for the Programming.

Almost every radio these days is a computer radio and has a basic set of Canned Programs, like Flapperons, Elevons, Ailerons to Rudder mix, etc.. These transmitters also include one or more Programmable Mixers. You have to use your imagination with Programmable Mixers in order to accomplish some of the things Canned Programs can do. Sometimes you need to employ multiple Programmable Mixers to accomplish a task.

Most JR radios have a program called Flap System that defaults to Flaps on a 3 position switch and parameters to adjust Elevator Coupling. I used to have a Futaba 8AUPS transmitter that defaulted to using a Knob for Flaps. I was able to set up two Programmable Mixers to put Flaps on a Switch, but it was not easy and there was nothing in the manual about how to do it.

guver

My Feedback: (325)

Thanks, guys. I think I now Get it. I'll be good to go for next batch of planes for next season. I'm sure I'll need help when I program my first mix.

Last thing (we hope) My RF6 sim has channel 5 labeled as D/R what's up with that?

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I have had Real Flight since V2. I also have V6. I just checked Channel Mapping and I see that Ch5 is also set to DR. The control defaults initially set in the Sim are based upon the Interlink Controller (transmitter) that comes with the Sim. There are Drop Down boxes next to each channel that you can use to remap the controls assigned to those channels. If you are using your own transmitter, you would connect it to the Interlink with an adapter cable and set up the Channel Mapping accordingly. You can also Remap the Channels for the Interlink if you so desire.

guver

My Feedback: (325)

I'm wondering if it's even worth it to use the flaps? Slow landing would be important to me since my turf is pretty rough.

I'm going to need help with flaperons soon anyways.

So for flaps it is simple , use a knob and it will slow the landing speed down and cause more lift. Is there a standard knob and a standard way to turn it? cc or cw?
So for retracts I will use a 2 position switch and makes sense to use up switch for up retracts? unless there's a standard way here too.

5 of my planes can have flaperons and I should start with an understanding of how/why they work. ALL 5 of them would benefit from a slower landing and they all have dual servos.
I see that the ailerons being down will work just as I've described flaps above. But when flaperons are all way down and the aileron stick is moved I assume that the one aileron simply moves up? Not both of them right? Without ever having used these before I can imagine it makes the right stick a lot less sensitive while the ails are down, right?

I'll be able to program flaperons on my Turnigy tx , but not my Tactic tx. It is ok to use the Tactic tx for flaps and retracts , but it won't work for doing the flaperons. I'll need help programming the seperate servo channels for right and left ailerons. I assume I might leave the right one in channel 1 and then the left one in channel 5 or 6 , right? Is there a standard way to do this too?

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

For years, Flapperons was the program to use when you had a separate servo for each Aileron. You would connect the Right Aileron servo to the Aileron channel and connect the Left Ailerons servo to the Flap channel. This eliminated the need for a Y Harness and gave you more control over each Aileron.

I never used the Flap component of Flapperons but some in my club do. I have separate Flaps on my scale Warbirds. If you are flying off a short runway or you have to dive down over trees, to land, Flaps slow down your approach and create lift. It also requires landing at a higher Throttle setting. Depending upon the aircraft, when you drop the Flaps, the nose may pitch Up or Down, so you need to add Up or Down Elevator to compensate (Elevator Coupling). You can test this in the air, at a high altitude, by slowing the aircraft down and dropping the Flaps.

Most radios have a Flapperon program or a Flapperon Wing Type. There is usually an adjustment for Elevator Coupling or you can use a Programmable Mixer to do it. I would think that your Turnigy radio has this, but the Tactic does not.

http://tacticrc.com/tacj2600.html

JR/Spektrum radios default to having a 3 position switch linked to the Flaps or Flapperons. For years, Futaba always had a Knob to control Flaps. Newer Futaba radios may give you the option of a switch, as well.

One advantage of Dual Aileron servos is that if one Aileron servo stops working, the other one will still allow you to land the aircraft. I have had this happen to me several times over the past 34 years.

With Flapperons, the Ailerons will still work as Ailerons, even with them down for Flaps. You need to fly the aircraft, drop the Flaps, and see how the aircraft behaves. You may not need Flaps at all.

The cheaper the radio the less programming is included. Sometimes you buy a more expensive radio more for the programming than the extra channels.

JR/Spektrum use Ch1 for Throttle, Ch2 for Ailerons, and Ch3 for Elevator. Futaba uses Ch1 for Ailerons, Ch2 for Elevator, and Ch3 for Elevator. On most radios, Ch4 is Rudder, Ch5 is Gear, and Ch6 is Flaps.

guver

My Feedback: (325)

Thanks Rich. You guys have been very helpful. I think I'm finally getting my head wrapped around this. Now to go about programming the silly Turnigy 9x TX. [X(]

I have a few that I can set up pretty quickly once I figure out how. It should be pretty easy now that I know what is to happen physically. I'll see if I like it.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

Every radio is slightly different in it's approach to programming. My first computer radio was a Futaba T6XA. I bought it because I bought a Ducted Fan jet, from a friend, and the way he had the Retract Valve set up, I needed to be able to set End Points for the servo that operated the Retract valve. Since then, I have had many different radios from Futaba, JR, and Spektrum.

You can buy a new radio and think it has all the programming and channels you need. The next aircraft you buy needs some feature that is so much easier to employ if you had just spent a little more money and bought the next model radio above the one you just bought. It never ends unless you just stick to simple aircraft.

I never needed a high end Graphics card for my PC until I bought the Real Flight simulator V2. Now I am chasing Speed and Power just to be able to use all the features of V6.

chuckk2

Actually, you may be able to use more TX channels than the receiver has. Think of it this way. The TX has 8 output channels, and the receiver 6.
It's usually possible with the fancier computerized TX's to "mix" the output function of one channel with another. Or, you can go in the opposite direction, when you have
more than 6 receiver channels. An example might be each aileron on it's own channel, each flap on it's own, or a similar situation with dual rudders, etc.
Some refer to mixing the output function of one channel to one of the inputs of another as "backwards mixing".

I'm still waiting for the Mfrs to make a P/C based utility that works via a form of "flowchart". This may already be "out there" for the high dollar TX units.
Each control input, switch, whatever, is represented by a symbol, as is each output channel.
Inversions can be handled with a symbol, as can summing inputs, etc. (and so forth)
What can go on in between is determined by the TX firmware.

Since the newer TX'es often have a USB port, it's fairly simple from a hardware standpoint to get the programs settings into the transmitter.

I suspect that the Mfrs will standardize their different TX models to the point that the same program will work on the majority of the same Mfrs units.

Tektronix has had industrial software out for some years than at least in principal, does these very things. The challenge is to write interface software.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

If you have an 8 channel transmitter and a 6 channel receiver, you are limited to connecting servos to only 6 channels. You cannot take advantage of the other two channels on the transmitter. If you have a radio like the Futaba 8FG, you can take advantage of a 14 channel receiver, connect servos to channels 9-14, and mix them with any of the existing 8 channels in the transmitter

guver

My Feedback: (325)

Setting up the corvalis right now and I think I'll use the front left knob for the flaps. Which way is the preferred way to make the flaps go down? cw or ccw?

I of course have no preference yet cuz I've never used flaps. It would be nice to match it up to what the majority likes cuz I will stick with whatever I get used to.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

That is probably a personal preference. I used to use CW for Down and CCW for Up. I prefer a 3 position Switch so I know exactly where the Flaps are going to be for Up, Mid, and Full Flaps.

As you get more advanced radios, you have many Switches and Levers. Some have a Knob and perhaps one Button.

It is wise to Standardize so that no matter which Transmitter, Model Memory, or Flight Mode, all the Switches, Levers, and Knobs move in the same direction for the same function. This way, you do not have to think about which way it has to move, when you have to make changes, quickly, while flying.

For example, the Flap Switch is Up when the Flaps are Up, the Retract Switch is Back for Up and Forward for Down, and the D/R Switch is Up for High and Down for Low.