Spektrum vs. Futaba?
02-25-2012, 09:15 AM
#152
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RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
One of the main issues brought up was the loss of voltage. The big loss was going into the receiver on high demands. the other was the connector loss. Now this is worst case, but during a snap roll you could only be getting 3 to 3 1/2 volts to your servos from a a-123 6.6v system.
It is known that when you switch to a power box your ma does go up. This is because your now getting at least 6.2v to your servos. Now your getting the torque you paid for. You have no power loss in to the receiver and very little to the servo. If the plugs loss 1/2v and you have 2 maybe 3 that's 1 to 1 1/2v loss to the servo. You will use more ma because your servos are getting more voltage. The servos draw more getting where you want them then when they arrive. At the place you put them the amp draw drops.
I know this thread went way off of the OP question, but in many cases problems can be traced to power feed not radio issues. Dennis
It is known that when you switch to a power box your ma does go up. This is because your now getting at least 6.2v to your servos. Now your getting the torque you paid for. You have no power loss in to the receiver and very little to the servo. If the plugs loss 1/2v and you have 2 maybe 3 that's 1 to 1 1/2v loss to the servo. You will use more ma because your servos are getting more voltage. The servos draw more getting where you want them then when they arrive. At the place you put them the amp draw drops.
I know this thread went way off of the OP question, but in many cases problems can be traced to power feed not radio issues. Dennis
02-25-2012, 09:49 AM
#153
RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
Here is where things get crazy
The flyer may setup his new model and puts in "3D" servos and max length arms
installs old or new 4.8 pack - everything works on the ground
away we go - in somewhere between 1 and 5 minutes - th rx quits - or "hesitates"
the batts have dropped to a point where big loads now create levels below operating threshhold - further servo operation may again kill th rx if it did restart
crash exam? battery is not dead - flyer goes berzerk-
on an old 72 system the servos would have simply slowed - the throttle channel may have blipped to low and required actuation to regain power.
blame th e system - but the real blame - the user -not checking things thoroughly before operation
ask yourself - why would a rx quit while in flight unless vibration damaged it ?
logical reason?
either power failed OR signal was blocked .
both -operator error in initial setup
no expertese required to detect these issues - just a little common sense
The flyer may setup his new model and puts in "3D" servos and max length arms
installs old or new 4.8 pack - everything works on the ground
away we go - in somewhere between 1 and 5 minutes - th rx quits - or "hesitates"
the batts have dropped to a point where big loads now create levels below operating threshhold - further servo operation may again kill th rx if it did restart
crash exam? battery is not dead - flyer goes berzerk-
on an old 72 system the servos would have simply slowed - the throttle channel may have blipped to low and required actuation to regain power.
blame th e system - but the real blame - the user -not checking things thoroughly before operation
ask yourself - why would a rx quit while in flight unless vibration damaged it ?
logical reason?
either power failed OR signal was blocked .
both -operator error in initial setup
no expertese required to detect these issues - just a little common sense
02-25-2012, 09:59 AM
#156
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RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
SPEKTRUM AD :
"DSM IS THE 2.4GHz TECHNOLOGY THAT'S HERE TO STAY AND THE ONE TO BEAT."
What happened? Is this a fiascko or "just a load of B.S."?
02-25-2012, 10:11 AM
#157
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RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
In the days of 72 I can't tell you how many time I've heard. "It shows 4.8 I can get one more flight". now we know know that a battery showing 4.8 needs charging same goes for 6v.
Using dig. servos the power supply is now very critical. Add that to the needs of the 2.4 receivers with a computer chip. What some may not know is a low battery will recover in just minutes and show a higher voltage then when it failed to deliver at the time of the crash.
How many cycle their battery's at least once a year to make sure they're holding their ma? How old are your extensions and how many times have the been plugged and unplugged?
Dennis
Using dig. servos the power supply is now very critical. Add that to the needs of the 2.4 receivers with a computer chip. What some may not know is a low battery will recover in just minutes and show a higher voltage then when it failed to deliver at the time of the crash.
How many cycle their battery's at least once a year to make sure they're holding their ma? How old are your extensions and how many times have the been plugged and unplugged?
Dennis
02-25-2012, 10:15 AM
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RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
The loss of volts increased greatly with high amps. 19 amps to have a loss of 3 volts. At 3 amps it is under 1 volt loss and since I can fly for 1 hour with usage of about 1.4 amps my average volt drop would be closer to 1/2 a volt. Which would make sense to me because my voltmagic tells me even when I exercise all servo's on the ground which I know uses more amps then flying it, only shows my lowest recorded volts at more then 4.8 to 5.6. That's the range that the low voltage alarm starts to flash and the only way I can get it to flash is when i forget to switch on my second battery. So I know the Rx is not seeing below 5.6. Could be close so I might lose 1 volt on extreme stuff but for the most part I'm fine.
Silent said he uses 3 amps on average for his 150cc bird so on average for him he would see a loss of less then 1 volt. Most likely correct as all the 150cc birds with out a power box are not falling out of the sky with brown out issues because of the voltage drop to the Rx. Does make you think that with the bigger and more powerful servos we use today that it could be a problem with planes bigger then 150cc. Another consideration is the battery's themselves are better at providing the spikes of high amps that the new servo's are asking for. The bottle neck would be the wires and connectors as talked about. The simple fix could be to use better connectors and lower gauge wires to keep the flow to the servo's from dropping to much and save the cost and complexity of the power box. Certainly interesting thoughts to ponder as the planes get bigger and bigger.
Silent said he uses 3 amps on average for his 150cc bird so on average for him he would see a loss of less then 1 volt. Most likely correct as all the 150cc birds with out a power box are not falling out of the sky with brown out issues because of the voltage drop to the Rx. Does make you think that with the bigger and more powerful servos we use today that it could be a problem with planes bigger then 150cc. Another consideration is the battery's themselves are better at providing the spikes of high amps that the new servo's are asking for. The bottle neck would be the wires and connectors as talked about. The simple fix could be to use better connectors and lower gauge wires to keep the flow to the servo's from dropping to much and save the cost and complexity of the power box. Certainly interesting thoughts to ponder as the planes get bigger and bigger.
02-25-2012, 10:22 AM
#159
RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
ORIGINAL: fragile
SPEKTRUM AD :
''DSM IS THE 2.4GHz TECHNOLOGY THAT'S HERE TO STAY AND THE ONE TO BEAT.''
What happened? Is this a fiascko or ''just a load of B.S.''?
SPEKTRUM AD :
''DSM IS THE 2.4GHz TECHNOLOGY THAT'S HERE TO STAY AND THE ONE TO BEAT.''
What happened? Is this a fiascko or ''just a load of B.S.''?
( the word you were looking for is fiasco)
02-25-2012, 10:26 AM
#160
RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
ORIGINAL: Mikecam
The loss of volts increased greatly with high amps. 19 amps to have a loss of 3 volts. At 3 amps it is under 1 volt loss and since I can fly for 1 hour with usage of about 1.4 amps my average volt drop would be closer to 1/2 a volt. Which would make sense to me because my voltmagic tells me even when I exercise all servo's on the ground which I know uses more amps then flying it, only shows my lowest recorded volts at more then 4.8 to 5.6. That's the range that the low voltage alarm starts to flash and the only way I can get it to flash is when i forget to switch on my second battery. So I know the Rx is not seeing below 5.6. Could be close so I might lose 1 volt on extreme stuff but for the most part I'm fine.
Silent said he uses 3 amps on average for his 150cc bird so on average for him he would see a loss of less then 1 volt. Most likely correct as all the 150cc birds with out a power box are not falling out of the sky with brown out issues because of the voltage drop to the Rx. Does make you think that with the bigger and more powerful servos we use today that it could be a problem with planes bigger then 150cc. Another consideration is the battery's themselves are better at providing the spikes of high amps that the new servo's are asking for. The bottle neck would be the wires and connectors as talked about. The simple fix could be to use better connectors and lower gauge wires to keep the flow to the servo's from dropping to much and save the cost and complexity of the power box. Certainly interesting thoughts to ponder as the planes get bigger and bigger.
The loss of volts increased greatly with high amps. 19 amps to have a loss of 3 volts. At 3 amps it is under 1 volt loss and since I can fly for 1 hour with usage of about 1.4 amps my average volt drop would be closer to 1/2 a volt. Which would make sense to me because my voltmagic tells me even when I exercise all servo's on the ground which I know uses more amps then flying it, only shows my lowest recorded volts at more then 4.8 to 5.6. That's the range that the low voltage alarm starts to flash and the only way I can get it to flash is when i forget to switch on my second battery. So I know the Rx is not seeing below 5.6. Could be close so I might lose 1 volt on extreme stuff but for the most part I'm fine.
Silent said he uses 3 amps on average for his 150cc bird so on average for him he would see a loss of less then 1 volt. Most likely correct as all the 150cc birds with out a power box are not falling out of the sky with brown out issues because of the voltage drop to the Rx. Does make you think that with the bigger and more powerful servos we use today that it could be a problem with planes bigger then 150cc. Another consideration is the battery's themselves are better at providing the spikes of high amps that the new servo's are asking for. The bottle neck would be the wires and connectors as talked about. The simple fix could be to use better connectors and lower gauge wires to keep the flow to the servo's from dropping to much and save the cost and complexity of the power box. Certainly interesting thoughts to ponder as the planes get bigger and bigger.
The battery is still the part of equasion most often misunderstood
Some cells typically older LiPos and high impedance NIMH (-there were some really terrible ones on the market) will drop multiple volts in a heartbeat when loaded .
02-25-2012, 10:27 AM
#161
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
ORIGINAL: fragile
SPEKTRUM AD :
''DSM IS THE 2.4GHz TECHNOLOGY THAT'S HERE TO STAY AND THE ONE TO BEAT.''
What happened? Is this a fiascko or ''just a load of B.S.''?
SPEKTRUM AD :
''DSM IS THE 2.4GHz TECHNOLOGY THAT'S HERE TO STAY AND THE ONE TO BEAT.''
What happened? Is this a fiascko or ''just a load of B.S.''?
02-25-2012, 10:44 AM
#162
RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
ORIGINAL: BuschBarber
I am at the WRAM Show holding my next radio, the DX18. By the way, Horizon just confirmed that if you connect a DSM2 Remote to any AR8000, or other DSMX receiver, it will not Bind.
ORIGINAL: fragile
SPEKTRUM AD :
''DSM IS THE 2.4GHz TECHNOLOGY THAT'S HERE TO STAY AND THE ONE TO BEAT.''
What happened? Is this a fiascko or ''just a load of B.S.''?
SPEKTRUM AD :
''DSM IS THE 2.4GHz TECHNOLOGY THAT'S HERE TO STAY AND THE ONE TO BEAT.''
What happened? Is this a fiascko or ''just a load of B.S.''?
Some guys did get confused/ upset/frustrated about this but I never saw a mismatch which would fly.
02-25-2012, 01:21 PM
#163
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RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
I haveused used my DX7 three years now starting into my 4th never had a glitch.I fly 2 giant planes on this tx no problem.There are times individuals do not keep up on their equipment properly.And some who do not read the manual.I do believe possibly in time Spektrum will pull away from the pack they sure are trying hard and ,are showing good strides.
02-25-2012, 01:28 PM
#164
RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
ORIGINAL: fragile
SPEKTRUM AD :
"DSM IS THE 2.4GHz TECHNOLOGY THAT'S HERE TO STAY AND THE ONE TO BEAT."
What happened? Is this a fiascko or "just a load of B.S."?
SPEKTRUM AD :
"DSM IS THE 2.4GHz TECHNOLOGY THAT'S HERE TO STAY AND THE ONE TO BEAT."
What happened? Is this a fiascko or "just a load of B.S."?
B.S.
Now DSMX is Hopping that's an
Enterily different Story.
DSM2 old Techonolegy and is good for maken smok'en Holes
02-25-2012, 01:39 PM
#165
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
ORIGINAL: HoundDog
You are absolutly right DSM2 is
B.S.
Now DSMX is Hopping that's an
Enterily different Story.
DSM2 old Techonolegy and is good for maken smok'en Holes
ORIGINAL: fragile
SPEKTRUM AD :
''DSM IS THE 2.4GHz TECHNOLOGY THAT'S HERE TO STAY AND THE ONE TO BEAT.''
What happened? Is this a fiascko or ''just a load of B.S.''?
SPEKTRUM AD :
''DSM IS THE 2.4GHz TECHNOLOGY THAT'S HERE TO STAY AND THE ONE TO BEAT.''
What happened? Is this a fiascko or ''just a load of B.S.''?
B.S.
Now DSMX is Hopping that's an
Enterily different Story.
DSM2 old Techonolegy and is good for maken smok'en Holes
02-25-2012, 01:51 PM
#166
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
ORIGINAL: HoundDog
You are absolutly right DSM2 is
B.S.
Now DSMX is Hopping that's an
Enterily different Story.
DSM2 old Techonolegy and is good for maken smok'en Holes
ORIGINAL: fragile
SPEKTRUM AD :
''DSM IS THE 2.4GHz TECHNOLOGY THAT'S HERE TO STAY AND THE ONE TO BEAT.''
What happened? Is this a fiascko or ''just a load of B.S.''?ig
SPEKTRUM AD :
''DSM IS THE 2.4GHz TECHNOLOGY THAT'S HERE TO STAY AND THE ONE TO BEAT.''
What happened? Is this a fiascko or ''just a load of B.S.''?ig
B.S.
Now DSMX is Hopping that's an
Enterily different Story.
DSM2 old Techonolegy and is good for maken smok'en Holes
You must have been a big hit at the Spelling Bee.
Making the font. Big and Red does not help make your case.
02-25-2012, 02:00 PM
#167
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RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
OK guys, like it or not the mis-labeling continues. I just put together a E-flite Carbon Z Yak 54, BNF. It came with an AR600 DSM2 receiver. Clearly marked "DSM2" in two locations on the front label. Just under the SPEKTRUM logo it says: "2.4 GHz DSM2 TM", and the DSM2 logo is also to the right of the "AR600".
Funny thing is, when you bind to the DX8, it binds as a DSMX receiver. True DSM2 receivers read as DSM2 on the read out of the DX8. I suppose this receiver came out prior to the announcement of DSMX also so they intentionally mislabeled it also (just like the AR8000).
I know you will most likely say, big deal, it is a better technology and for that you are correct. However, it is still misleading and inappropriate and in some states illegal to misrepresent products to the general public. Will I do anything about? No. But where wil it end? They get away with this for years and the misrepresentations could continue to grow and on different products.
Defend them if you want. It is still wrong to misrepresent your product.
02-25-2012, 02:19 PM
#168
RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
ORIGINAL: BuschBarber
ORIGINAL: HoundDog
You are absolutly right DSM2 is
B.S.
Now DSMX is Hopping that's an
Enterily different Story.
DSM2 old Techonolegy and is good for maken smok'en Holes
You ain't nuttin but a Hound Dog, Crockin all the time.
You must have been a big hit at the Spelling Bee.
Making the font. Big and Red does not help make your case.
ORIGINAL: fragile
SPEKTRUM AD :
''DSM IS THE 2.4GHz TECHNOLOGY THAT'S HERE TO STAY AND THE ONE TO BEAT.''
What happened? Is this a fiascko or ''just a load of B.S.''?ig
SPEKTRUM AD :
''DSM IS THE 2.4GHz TECHNOLOGY THAT'S HERE TO STAY AND THE ONE TO BEAT.''
What happened? Is this a fiascko or ''just a load of B.S.''?ig
B.S.
Now DSMX is Hopping that's an
Enterily different Story.
DSM2 old Techonolegy and is good for maken smok'en Holes
You ain't nuttin but a Hound Dog, Crockin all the time.
You must have been a big hit at the Spelling Bee.
Making the font. Big and Red does not help make your case.
You ain't nuttin but a Hound Dog, Crockin all the time.
You must have been a big hit at the Spelling Bee.
Making the font. Big and Red does not help make your case. You are right but 13 smok'en holes in a 9 week period made with aircraft guided by DSM2 does.
[/quote]
Ya bee's bettin yours "Bigs Bippy" ther sonny. Sides ya shouds be checkin out the "Hound Dog" 1.2 mega ton atomic super sonic weapon System. Scared the crap out of the Russians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-28_Hound_Dog
02-25-2012, 02:26 PM
#169
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RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
I run 18#-3c wire from my receiver to the servos and solder the connections between. I buy 18#-4c sound and security wire from home depot and remove the green wire and outer jacket to accomplish this. I know it's overkill but I wonder what amount of voltage drop that I do get compared to someone that buys extensions that are either 20-22 guage with the additional connectors! This would be neat if someone would research this and actually record what the actual voltage drop is between the receiver and heavy duty digital servos at full load with different types of wiring setups! I bet we would all be amased by the readings!
02-25-2012, 03:19 PM
#170
RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
ORIGINAL: kurt2022
I run 18#-3c wire from my receiver to the servos and solder the connections between. I buy 18#-4c sound and security wire from home depot and remove the green wire and outer jacket to accomplish this. I know it's overkill but I wonder what amount of voltage drop that I do get compared to someone that buys extensions that are either 20-22 guage with the additional connectors! This would be neat if someone would research this and actually record what the actual voltage drop is between the receiver and heavy duty digital servos at full load with different types of wiring setups! I bet we would all be amased by the readings!
I run 18#-3c wire from my receiver to the servos and solder the connections between. I buy 18#-4c sound and security wire from home depot and remove the green wire and outer jacket to accomplish this. I know it's overkill but I wonder what amount of voltage drop that I do get compared to someone that buys extensions that are either 20-22 guage with the additional connectors! This would be neat if someone would research this and actually record what the actual voltage drop is between the receiver and heavy duty digital servos at full load with different types of wiring setups! I bet we would all be amased by the readings!
02-25-2012, 03:46 PM
#172
My Feedback: (66)
RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
ORIGINAL: HoundDog
U think your paranoid ... got an Engenier Buddy that splices in a FUSE in front of every Servo Just Incase one jams or shorts or something ... Talk about caution.
ORIGINAL: kurt2022
I run 18#-3c wire from my receiver to the servos and solder the connections between. I buy 18#-4c sound and security wire from home depot and remove the green wire and outer jacket to accomplish this. I know it's overkill but I wonder what amount of voltage drop that I do get compared to someone that buys extensions that are either 20-22 guage with the additional connectors! This would be neat if someone would research this and actually record what the actual voltage drop is between the receiver and heavy duty digital servos at full load with different types of wiring setups! I bet we would all be amased by the readings!
I run 18#-3c wire from my receiver to the servos and solder the connections between. I buy 18#-4c sound and security wire from home depot and remove the green wire and outer jacket to accomplish this. I know it's overkill but I wonder what amount of voltage drop that I do get compared to someone that buys extensions that are either 20-22 guage with the additional connectors! This would be neat if someone would research this and actually record what the actual voltage drop is between the receiver and heavy duty digital servos at full load with different types of wiring setups! I bet we would all be amased by the readings!
ABcarr your complaning lol. The 8000 reciever you had installed and flown atleast 4 times was a true DSMX set up. it wouldnt have bound if it was different. Even if it was DSM2 it flew for atleast four times then it crashed. dont blame the radio but the set up. GET OVER and move on over to Futaba ok tired of hearing all this crap. lol
Nothing wrond with DSMX stuff if set up correctly and that includes the whole plane.
02-25-2012, 03:57 PM
#173
RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
ORIGINAL: airraptor
Engineer is what you meant????OOH's Tht bee's wat's I's tak'n Bouts one of Thems Trains Drivver guys, I'd be specten ... Rell O=Bliged yas don CO-Recteled me thar Prosffer. Got's ta bee's chken on the Famly Still ferSunDown ... See's ya later gatr
ABcarr your complaning lol. The 8000 reciever you had installed and flown atleast 4 times was a true DSMX set up. it wouldnt have bound if it was different. Even if it was DSM2 it flew for atleast four times then it crashed. dont blame the radio but the set up. GET OVER and move on over to Futaba ok tired of hearing all this crap. lol
Nothing wrond with DSMX stuff if set up correctly and that includes the whole plane.
ORIGINAL: HoundDog
U think your paranoid ... got an Engenier Buddy that splices in a FUSE in front of every Servo Just Incase one jams or shorts or something ... Talk about caution.
ORIGINAL: kurt2022
I run 18#-3c wire from my receiver to the servos and solder the connections between. I buy 18#-4c sound and security wire from home depot and remove the green wire and outer jacket to accomplish this. I know it's overkill but I wonder what amount of voltage drop that I do get compared to someone that buys extensions that are either 20-22 guage with the additional connectors! This would be neat if someone would research this and actually record what the actual voltage drop is between the receiver and heavy duty digital servos at full load with different types of wiring setups! I bet we would all be amased by the readings!
I run 18#-3c wire from my receiver to the servos and solder the connections between. I buy 18#-4c sound and security wire from home depot and remove the green wire and outer jacket to accomplish this. I know it's overkill but I wonder what amount of voltage drop that I do get compared to someone that buys extensions that are either 20-22 guage with the additional connectors! This would be neat if someone would research this and actually record what the actual voltage drop is between the receiver and heavy duty digital servos at full load with different types of wiring setups! I bet we would all be amased by the readings!
ABcarr your complaning lol. The 8000 reciever you had installed and flown atleast 4 times was a true DSMX set up. it wouldnt have bound if it was different. Even if it was DSM2 it flew for atleast four times then it crashed. dont blame the radio but the set up. GET OVER and move on over to Futaba ok tired of hearing all this crap. lol
Nothing wrond with DSMX stuff if set up correctly and that includes the whole plane.
02-25-2012, 04:54 PM
#174
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
Hound Dog - All kidding aside, we honestly have not had any issues with Spectrum radios, in our part of the country, since it first came out. To my knowledge, no one has ever had a Brownout. Most of us fly JR/Spectrum, from Park Flyers to Giant Scale and Jets.We have some happy Futaba and Hitec owners.
The radios have been reliable, with no evidence of the kinds of problems you have described. Some of us travel all over the NE, to large and small events, with no issues.
I cannot explain why there may be issues in other parts of the country. We have one G5 pilot who brings his JR/Spectrum gear to many flying sites all over the country and he has no issues.
I feel badly that you have not had the same experience.
The radios have been reliable, with no evidence of the kinds of problems you have described. Some of us travel all over the NE, to large and small events, with no issues.
I cannot explain why there may be issues in other parts of the country. We have one G5 pilot who brings his JR/Spectrum gear to many flying sites all over the country and he has no issues.
I feel badly that you have not had the same experience.
02-25-2012, 05:31 PM
#175
RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?
ORIGINAL: BuschBarber
Hound Dog - All kidding aside, we honestly have not had any issues with Spectrum radios, in our part of the country, since it first came out. To my knowledge, no one has ever had a Brownout. Most of us fly JR/Spectrum, from Park Flyers to Giant Scale and Jets.We have some happy Futaba and Hitec owners.
The radios have been reliable, with no evidence of the kinds of problems you have described. Some of us travel all over the NE, to large and small events, with no issues.
I cannot explain why there may be issues in other parts of the country. We have one G5 pilot who brings his JR/Spectrum gear to many flying sites all over the country and he has no issues.
I feel badly that you have not had the same experience.
Hound Dog - All kidding aside, we honestly have not had any issues with Spectrum radios, in our part of the country, since it first came out. To my knowledge, no one has ever had a Brownout. Most of us fly JR/Spectrum, from Park Flyers to Giant Scale and Jets.We have some happy Futaba and Hitec owners.
The radios have been reliable, with no evidence of the kinds of problems you have described. Some of us travel all over the NE, to large and small events, with no issues.
I cannot explain why there may be issues in other parts of the country. We have one G5 pilot who brings his JR/Spectrum gear to many flying sites all over the country and he has no issues.
I feel badly that you have not had the same experience.
OH "not all kidding aside" maybe the Killer of all airplanes (GRAVITY) is weaker in the NE than the opposite end of the country the SW.
What Ya think ? ... The Devil made me do it! Sorry he he he ... Man I'm in trouble now!