Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

I am familiar with those but they are not on my list. I was just interested in this little brushless, flybarless heli and one or two small indoor subjects. These are all bind and fly with no options for anything else. Other than that I prefer the larger stuff including kit and scratch building. As to creating a distance between the two when switching on other manufactures also caution about being to close when switching on. it was one of the first suggestions by our hobby shop owner. So I would turn on transmitter leave it on the stage and 8 to 10 ft away on the gym floor plug in the battery. It would actual come on and act like it was bound and ready to go but you had to make sure you checked out all your pitch, roll and collective if it looked less than smooth or one wasn't responding all you had to do is go through the binding process as per Horizon and all would be well again until the next time it would happen.

I've been in the hobby a goodly amount of years and started the indoor at our club when we were running brushed gear reduction units. I try and do a lot of research prior to getting involved and from what I had read and observed I was leary about investing in a Spectrum radio. I had an early MX with the Eflight radio and though crude it worked ok I though the better radio would compliment this little heli and when it works it does. Sometimes for no reason trying to control it is like having a Tasmanian Devil on a four foot leash

I actually design and build my own indoor foamies that I control with my Hitec radios. In the same environment I have never had to rebind these even after collisions and major crashes.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPRz0bgX02w[/youtube]


I prefer larger scale models this is my 1/3 Pitts
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-XED79b6Ok[/youtube]

downunderdog

Ah, now I get it. You were "facetiously" bringing up a major concern that you REALLY DO NOT HAVE.

The only concern that you REALLY have is that you have to rebind the heli occasionally after you've turned it on but prior to flight.

Had your facetious concern been a real possibility, then I could understand why you are so negative about Spektrum. But now that we all know that your only REAL concern is that you have to insert and remove a bind plug once in a while, I don't understand so much negativity. How long does it take? 20 seconds? I guess I really am slow.

FWIW, sarcasm (or being facetious) is something that frequently gets lost in written communications when people aren't able to read other cues - verbal and nonverbal. Many times I've seen people on forums hide behind this fact when they've tried to overstate something but then get called on it - they fall back on the old "I was being sarcastic when I said that" line. I'm not saying that that is what you did here. I'm just stating that I've observed it being done before by other people.

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

But you see you do not even know that binding this little heli does not require a binding plug. You assume and there is a saying about that!

So am I to understand if you own a Spectrum you feel it's perfectly acceptable that one must rebind on a regular basis?

You make my point thank you very much. Compared to my other systems that do not require this constant rebinding it reinforces my opinion that you cannot depend on it staying bound like every other brand I have owned. That doesn't say much for any claimed reliability.

Dennis

downunderdog

So it takes even less than 20 seconds to rebind, and you don't even need a binding plug? Sounds like quite a hardship to have to do that every once in a while after powering up the heli but before flying. How long does it take? 10 seconds?

I have a DX6i and some AR6200 receivers, as well as some of the hobbyking "orange" receivers, and I've never had any issues. If I had to rebind occasionally, I'd throw a binding plug into the bag that I bring when I go fly. But I don't even have a binding plug in that bag, so that shows how reliable it's been for me.

As long as the system is operating reliably in flight, I don't think that the occasional failure to get a bind at power up is indicative of any kind of reliability problem. What concerns me more is the guy in here that actually had a bad receiver that caused him to lose control... if that were happening a lot then I think the brand would have a reliability problem... but I haven't seen many reports of that.

Muttdog

Why are some of the ugliest threads always Spektrum vs. Futaba vs. hitec etc. The haters are so bitter and they offer no help and are just here to bash others equipment. Do you think others will ditch their equipment based on loud capital letters and bold fonts with condescending  attitudes? I just don't get it. I am not brand loyal and grew up on Futaba. Now I have a DX8 that was a gift to me and it works flawlessly.  There are some features that I really like (easy programming) and features I do not (sattelites) but so what. The OP does not have a leg to stand on IMHO as seller stated what was included in the auction and that is in keeping with Ebay's policies. He did not have to put extra info other then what is included in the auction and nothing else. May not be good business practice but there is nothing unethical about that.

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

I'm glad you feel I should be happy with a piece of equipment that is substandard to even the hobby king stuff. Personaly I am not. This is exactly why I avoided the brand when I started converting to 2.4. I am glad I did because it looks like nothing has changed except adding to the complexity. I definitly would not recomend the system to any new rc pilots. There are to many less complicated and reliable systems out there. I can see there are no answers here just the old refrain "REBIND THE DARN THING"

Muttdog is correct this is off topic so I will leave it at that. No hating just hoping for an answer other than rebind the darn thing.

Dennis

rmh

For those who may think the problem referred to is typical - it isn't
The commentary demonstrates a misunderstanding of how these little integrated rx/servo Bind n Fly types operate.
It is an open forum, so the description of problems is left to the writer.
they may inaccurate -simply thru not knowing how these particular types operate.
We have had these little copters- they work just fine . our indoor group has a number of these .

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

Horse pucky I say the manual is quite specific on binding and setting these up which I had no problem with. The hobby shop owner is a long time heli pilot he has had it for a while and has had to rebind it more than a few times. He has a choice of any brand radio he wants to use with his personal heli's it’s not Spectrum or JR. It’s the typical response when someone has a problem with these radios. Rather than offer any kind of solution blame it on the operator case closed. No wonder there are so many JR/Spectrum haters. It is what it is if I want to fly that little heli I have to get used to living with the radios shortcomings. I certainly wouldn't trust anything more than BNF to these systems. Too many other choices out there.

Not typical you say?????? Just a quick peak through the forums a few minutes on the web and in the forums there is 10 times the complaints with these systems than any others, why?

http://z8rc.com/2011/03/dx8-review-2/
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=14684
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_91...tm.htm#9160635
http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/...p?th=29224&p=1
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=30226
http://www.ausrc.com/forum/showthrea...binding-itself
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/arch...p/t-33505.html

Surface guys have problems too.

http://www.socal-rc.com/forum/archiv...php/t-643.html
http://www.rcnitrotalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78724

Dennis

rmh

How about that

Rob2160

Well, I have:

8 x MCPXs
2 x Nano CPXs
1 x 130 X
2 x MSR
2 x Brushless MCPXs
2 x MQX

They all work perfectly and have never given me an ounce of trouble - if you power up too close to the TX they can demonstrate the issue in my previous vid but if powered up 2 meters away they are always perfect.

(I have so many MCPXs because I have them stored in various places in Australia and around the world as my job requires extended periods away in hotels and the MCPx's give me something to play with... )

1. Vid in Los Angeles - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBmmC2dY8Zw
2. Vid in Arizona - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyQ8Xh_fbj8

I have been using Spektrum / JR (DSM2 and DSMX) in 6 different TXs since 2010 / 2011 with over 10,000 combined flights and over 30 different RXs (including Ultra micros) and not once ever have I experienced a loss of control or loss of bind..

Maybe I am just the luckiest Spektrum user in the world.

Rob2160

Always good to have links to support your argument - these make interesting reading for sure..

I am working through them but found one thing very interesting in the thread I have highlighed above.

EDIT - I was curious about this so tried it for myself.. the video attached below..

Accidentally pressing the bind button during a power up will "unbind" your Transmitter and will require you to rebind with the RX.

I have never experienced this problem in 3 years with Spektrum but the video shows it is definately possible...

Quoted from the thread above... ..


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_FNNbs1Aus[/youtube]

jmac591

Is the argument that if the bind button is pressed "accidentally" the transmitter loses its bind? The reason I'm asking is because I have a DX8 and simply tryed just that "accidentally" pressing the bind key which is in a position that makes it almost intentional while powering my transmitter and I did not loses my bind to my plane. The transmitter powered up fully went through the bind sequence, "binding"......."transmitting" and then to the main display of the particular plane I had selected while that perticular plane was powered up without a bind key in the receiver. I can show a video as well but don't want it to take an hour to download. Note: the receiver is a AR600 (Spektrum).

rmh

The bind arrangement is NOT the same on the little integrated rx/servo models
Rather than repeat all of this - read the on line manuals for the 610 rx (same as 600 -updated)
Then read the Bind instructions manual for the little DSMX or any of the small models with integrated rx and servos.
There are various mistakes which can prevent or kill a bind- in either case.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

Pressing and holding the Bind Button down and then turning on the DX8, without the Rx set to Bind Mode, will wipe the Bind info from the DX8 Model Memory. This is true with other Spektrum transmitters. With the DX7, the large, protruding, Bind Button could accidentally get depressed if you laid the DX7 on an uneven table. It would be difficult to accidentally do this with the DX8. Perhaps if someone was doing a Range Check and depressed the Bind Button before he/she turned on the Tx, it might wipe the Bind info from the Model Memory, accidentally.

rmh

The tx/rx link up must be solid - OR pressing the button can kill the connection
said differently once the tx is turned ON -the rx must become connected - and operating
THEN the Bind button can be depressed - for testing range.
there are other goofs which can screw up a bind sequence
This is why the user is advised to check the system for operation and do range checks
BUT rx don't become "unbinded" in flight - tho I have heard that one claimed . first hand - -
the guy simply had no idea about how the stuff works.

Rob2160

I understand what you are asking..

From the tests I did this morning, pressing the Bind button on the TX while powering up (with no RX powered up and in Bind Mode) will cause the TX to lose its bind..

I totally agree that "accidentally" pressing this button is almost impossible and it has never happened to me personally.

But there have been times when my TX is on the ground while I am working on a model and my neck strap has accidentally flipped flight modes / hold switches etc during

After reading your last post, I just tried my DX8 again, "accidentally" pressing the bind button during power up with a powered RX nearby (not in bind mode) and the TX still drops the bind (at least mine does)

AndyKunz

Can I interject some facts here?

There are two different methods of binding in receivers:

1) The normal "use a bind plug and power up" and
2) the "timeout because no transmitter" type

In both types, the bind information is NOT erased until a new transmitter has been successfully bound. The GUID is written to EEPROM and does not get erased until, once again, a new bind is successfully completed. This is why I can so adamantly insist that receivers do not lose bind. Absopositlutelytively not!

Transmitters, otoh, erase their bind information IMMEDIATELY upon the start of the bind process. The bind can be started several different ways, but the most common and universal is to activate the bind switch (push button on DX7 and modules, trainer switch/button on others, menu on DX18t). As soon as you start that, the bind data is erased on the transmitter.

Because it's so simple to do accidentally on the transmitter side, especially with module and DX7 radios set on the ground, sometimes people think they're "losing bind" but in reality they are just pushing the button carelessly. I had this happen to me a bunch when I first got Spektrum about 6 years ago until I figured it out and started being careful. It doesn't happen any more ...

Now, if you have a DX8, if you start the bind process in the transmitter and there is not a receiver in bind mode nearby, the DX8 will say "BIND FAILED" and it won't be bound to anything, but will be sending RF data that can fool some receivers into thinking they hear DSM2. Don't fly like that, you'll be sorry eventually - always have the DSM2 or DSMX logo on your screen!

This is what Rob2160 is saying is happening with his DX8, and I concur, this is the correct operation. I don't know how jmac951 got a successful bind, since that is totally impossible if he's the only guy there binding. However (and this happens in our office all the time), it is possible for a receiver to bind to a transmitter other than the intended one. For instance, suppose he's at the field and his buddy Jim is putting his AR600 AR600-class receiver in bind mode. jmac accidentally starts to bind with his DX8, and guess what, it sees Jim's receiver and they bind but jmac's was powered up and not in bind. You know what happens? Jmac has control of both planes. Meanwhile, Jim realizes somebody else bound to his plane, so he power cycles it and starts over but this time he's able to bind his transmitter to it because jmac's is already bound.

I know this happens, many times flying at the Armory we would bind to the other guy's model accidentally (sometimes intentionally ). It happens, it's real, and it's the only way a DX8 could go into bind and still be connected to the old receiver.

And I say that just as absopositlutelytively.

Andy

jmac591

I use a DX8 and have no issues in the binding process, it's too easy, and not as easy to "accidentally" bind. But you did confirm my test, if the transmitter does not successfully bind to a receiver, it does not wipe out the existing bind key from the transmitter, unless if I have a broken transmitter that only binds to a receiver that has been intentionally set to bind. In that case....I'll still keep it.

AndyKunz

No, I negated your test.

The transmitter becomes UNBOUND immediately upon start of the bind sequence (ie, by the time you see "BINDING" it is already long since forgotten).

The receiver does NOT forget the old until it has completely bound to the new transmitter.

Andy

jmac591

Well there you go, if its coming from Spektrum then mine is defective

Rob2160

Thanks Andy,

Always great hearing facts from the source and now it makes a lot more sense.

It has never happened to me personally but the JR11X has the bind button right on the back and not recessed at all.. If it were resting on its back on grass during power up there is a fair chance this could happen..

Yes it is entirely possible to have multiple RX's bound to a single model memory....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL-9g-ms9gM[/youtube]

Rob2160

Any chance of making a video of it? would be interesting to see it.

Rob2160

For some reason I can't edit my earlier post...

Just thinking about multiple RXs bound to the same model memory as per my vid above.. they are all DSM2 Helis..

I wonder what would happen with the newer DSMX / Telemetry BNF helis if you bind more than one at the same time?

Or a combo of DSM2 / DSMX  - I'll try it later when I get home..

jmac591

Sure, next time I think of it I'll send that out

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

It is my understanding that if you Bind multiple receivers to the same Model Memory, they each need to be the same Protocol ( both DMS2 or both DSMX). The Model Memory stores the Protocol for the receivers it is Bound to.