Turqui

My Feedback: (139)

is there any other item or machine or technique that can be used to cycle the batteries instead having to spend the price on the hobbico accy cycle elite?
i find that machine very expensive.
i have some batteries that i havent used for some time and some others that are 100% new,all futaba tx and rx batteries and they have been sitting for a few months, so i want to keep them fresh and fully functional.
any recomendations?
thanks.

Scirocco14

If you keep an eye out, you can find the Accu-Cycles on *Bay. I bought mine for less than $30 shipped.

It's worth every penny!

Mark

guver

My Feedback: (325)

Any pack can be discharged with a load manually and then charged. That is a "cycle" OR vise-versa. The correct rate and volt cut-off should be found and used. It's a lot of work.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

It might interest you to know I have been playing with these things for more than 50 years and I have never owned a cycler. I think the folks that write ads have done a great job. They make us feel like we have to have one.
If you leave ni-cds unattended for long periods of time some of the cells might get a short. There is really nothing you can do but throw that pack away.
As pointed out above you can manually cycle them. Just get a small flashlight bulb to use as a load and discharge them. Then recharge them with your wall wart. If you have transmitter cells, just turn the transmitter on and let it discharge the cells then recharge.
If your cells charge up and hold their voltage while loaded they are not going to fail during flight.
If you are concerned about capacity use an ammeter to measure the current with your flashlight load and record the time it takes to discharge the cells.

guver

My Feedback: (325)

I've used over 40 different chargers and I think I can count on 1 hand the number of times I have "cycled" or even "discharged" just for the sake of cycling. Most of my chargers do have that function , but I never use it. I can't remember the last time I used a discharge or cycle function.

tomfiorentino

Guver and Dirtybird are both correct...

Ill add though that a formation charge is required with new NiMh batteries and to do that it requires a discharge followed by a slow charge three times.

Cycling is a term that has been around from when we used to combat "memory" effect of NiCd batteries (although I'm not sure that memory issues ever developed with the way we use the batteries). Anyway, with some of the new chemistries that are out now, we need to follow the same process (discharge followed by charge...or cycle) but the motivation is not memory effect.

Formation charge, verifying a batteries capacity particularly when they are new and bringing back a pack that is out of balance are all examples of why we "cycle"...none of them are for memory effect though (although not all probably agree with that). Its good to periodically verify capacity of packs that have been in service for a while too just to make sure you are "all systems go".

In the long-run, it's hard to get around not having to use a discharger and with the larger capacity batteries and differring cutoff voltages it is almost impossible to do it without babysitting the process.

In the meantime, you can do just as these guys mentioned. We have all done it and it works. Convenient...no way.

Good luck to you and I am glad to see you are enjoying the hobby!

om

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with most here. The battery is the heart of the plane. With out cycling the battery at least once a year you'll never know the health of the battery. By cycling the battery with a good cycler you know how much came out and how much went back in. The battery must at least hit %80 of the rating to be safe.
I can't tell you how many battery's i have tested for people that only came up to %50 rating.
A 4.8v battery that is completely discharged will show 5v within minutes of being put on a a charge, but the MA is not enough to fly.
Many of a unexplained crash is due to battery's that did not hold their ratings. You may think you have a 1200ma battery, but in fact it's only charging to 6 or 7 hundred MA. It only takes that one more flight while your thinking you have 1200ma to loose the plane.
I have been able to recover many battery's by doing a cycle and a forced charge at 1C for 16hrs. to balance the cells. This unbalance is caused by using a fast charger that stops charging when it sees the first cell that is fully charged while the others are not charged fully.
In my opinion a good cycler is a must and is cheap in the long run.
Just this year I found a A123 that would not cycle to 2300ma only went to 1600ma. Putting a volt meter on it showed 6.6v. Without the cycler I would have never known that the battery was going bad. By the way the battery was 6 years old. Dennis

Texastbird

http://www.hobbypartz.com/thac6smbachw.html
I've been using this charger for over a year now and it will charge and cycle just about every kind of battery I can think of. I even charge my garden tractor battery with it. It has a fully automatic battery cycling function, so it can't ruin a battery as long as you have it set to the correct type. I would never trust a plane to a new nicad or nimh without cycling it to see what the true capacity and state of the battery is.

fizzwater2

My Feedback: (61)

I'll chime in on using a cycler to test batteries, too - how much does a cycler cost, vs. how much an airplane costs?

I'll even test new batteries with a couple of cycles before I put them in a plane, to make sure they're up to snuff before using them.

I consider it pretty cheap insurance. I lost one airplane once to a battery failure - many many years ago, before I had a cycler. Since then, none to battery issues.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

Well I have to disagree with you. A cycler is nothing more than a piece of fancy test equipment. Like most fancy test equipment it just automates a simple task. With a VOM, a clock and a simple resistive load you can do everything a cycler does.
For your purpose, automating such a task is helpful, but for the average individual with maybe 1/2 doz packs,a cycler is gilding the lilly as I see it.

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

To each his own drtybird, but can your system tell you how much ma came out and went back in. Can you system do a forced charge to balance the cells. I agree with you a cycler is a piece of test equipment, just like a tach for your engine is. But I don't try and count RPM's . Dennis

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

With a few calculations I can tell how much went in and come out.
I don't know exactly what you mean by forced charge, but to balance cells I find it easiest to just charge each cell individually.
BTW I own a tach but I have found little use for it. Again that is something better suited for someone who's job is to test engines.
I also have a counter, a function generator, an oscilloscope and a spectrum analyzer but I don't know why. I seldom use them.
AND I have a complete Eagletree telemetry system I will sell cheap.

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

A forced charge is when you charge a battery (Nicad or Ni-mh) at 1c for a set time) This forces the lower cells up to full charge. A fast charger will stop when it see a full charge on the first cell to top off.. This also works on A123 if you discharge one below 3v. you can charge using a straight Nicad charger until you get 3v. then you switch over to the a123 charge cycle and finish charging.
As far as a tach goes it really comes in handy when tuning a gas engine.
For the other equipment you have you're right i wouldn't even know how to use them. Dennis

guver

My Feedback: (325)

This discussion went deeper than I imagined. Nice thing about these forums. It may be helpful to make a distinction between "cycling" and "testing" then beyond that [X(]

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

At least it didn't go off topic. That happens a lot around here. Dennis

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

I have been tuning gas engines since 1942. I always just used my ear. Its just as accurate as a tech and a lot easier to use. Its not too good for the ears though.
So a forced charge is what we have been doing to ni-cds all along. You should join the programming crowd. They like to come up with a new name for an old process.
I have a couple of regulated power supplies. With those I can control both the current and the applied voltage. Ni-cds should be charged constant current while A123's should be charged constant voltage. Constant current is what you call forced charge and its a bit more descriptive.

StangFlyer

My Feedback: (17)

Ok so I have read all the posts concerning this very important topic. As a fellow modeler, I want to be sure that I do NOT lose a plane because of my ignorance of understanding how to properly condition batteries. I have been building and flying for about eighteen years now and just about the time I think I am getting wiser about certain things, I find I have not learned as much as I thought I had. Years and years ago, I lost a plane due to a faulty battery pack. I swore I would never lose another. I promptly purchased the original Accu Cyle charger. I have had awesome luck since then. Actually have only tossed one batter due to dying issues. And actually, did not toss it. I cut it up and used the good cells for onboard glow batteries. Still going strong after some five years later. The only cell the weakend, went in the trash. So all in all, I have had very good luck. Now herein comes a new problem. I have purchased the ACCU CYCLE ELITE. I love it and it takes all the worry out of "am I doing it right?" After reading all the posts on battery condtioning, I am not so sure I am in fact doing it right. What is all this mumbo jumbo of charging at 10% of the rated capacity? The old Accu Cycle just did its thing and after fifteen hours it automatically went to trickle. With the Elite, it seems to have preset values (that can be changed) but from what I am reading, those values are way too high for proper maintenance of the new NIMH packs. These are my packs: (RX) 6.0V 2000 Mah, 4.8V 1500 Mah, (TX) 9.6V 2000 Mah. As for my NICD packs, I understand the values would be the same as they are for the NIMH. Is this correct? Does someone really have a good straight forward answer concerning this confusion? I would greatly appreciate some insight as to how to correctly understand this process. Thanks....

SuchIsLife

charging at 1C means a one hour charge (roughy). So if it takes 15 hours to charge, it is charging at 1/15C or 6% of rated capacity.

guver

My Feedback: (325)

It has been customary to recommend a c/10 rate for 15 hrs for a "formation" or "balancing" or "conditioning" charge on NI type packs. This ensures that all cells are full, balanced and ready to use or test even if they were new, old, setting or even grossly imbalanced. The old accucyle did this for you and as you know the rate and time just has to be in the ballpark. I've always thought that the rate and time aren't super important , but rather the product of the two must be at least 150% of capacity.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

The term C refers to the Capacity of the battery. If the battery is 2000mah, a 1C charge rate is 2000ma. A C/10 charge rate is 200ma. Charging NiMh at a rate higher than C/10 usually results in the batteries getting warmer than they should. Many times, the charger False Peaks and indicates the charge is complete when if fact it is not. NiCad batteries can usually stand being charged at 1C or better, however, it can reduce the life of the battery.

The wall charger that comes with your radio just puts out a constant current and does not detect the state of the charge. A good battery charger will anticipate the batteries reaching full charge and help prevent overcharging. Putting the batteries through an automatic Charge/DisCharge/Charge cycle is the easiest way to understand if your battery is still putting out it's rated Capacity.

I have abandoned NiCad and NiMh for LiFe and LiPo Rx batteries. They charge faster and hold their charge longer. I have never had a safety issue with them. I use FMA Lithium chargers (4S, 10S).

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

Well I have to eat crow. I read 1/c as 0.1c so my comments above about forced charge are incorrect.
I would think that anyone that charges NI-CDs at 1c wont have them very long

pilotpete2

+1 Rich,
Now if they would just make a glow plug that worked on a single LiFe or A123 cell
Pete

raptureboy

If you really want to be informed and not just someones opinion I suggest looking else where for the truth. http://www.hangtimes.com/rcbattery_faq.html This gentleman KNOWS what he is talking about. Don't test your batteries and sooner or later you WILLbe buying a new plane.

LesUyeda

"I always just used my ear. Its just as accurate as a tech and a lot easier to use"

You may want to reconsider that statement.

Les

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

You must forgive my typing i did not mean 1c but a 10% charge rate for a forming/balancing/forced charge.
And as a lot of pilots I too have switched to A123 in all my planes. If your charger call handle it you can charge a123 up to 10amp. Mine will only go to 5amp. but i can charge them in 20 min. Dennis