Back in the saddle (almost.....)!!
06-01-2012, 11:57 PM
#26
Senior Member
RE: Back in the saddle (almost.....)!!
ORIGINAL: pilotpete2
That's interesting. Many folks run the 9C with dual elevator servos on channels 2 & 5 by using a P-mix with trim coupling enabled, providing slightly better performance than the canned mix for dual elevators that uses channel 8, so exactly what is the bug??? Very easy to setup a 9C with dual elevators, dual ailerons, rudder, and throttle with a six channel receiver.
Both radios have strong points, but both are no longer in production.
Pete
That's interesting. Many folks run the 9C with dual elevator servos on channels 2 & 5 by using a P-mix with trim coupling enabled, providing slightly better performance than the canned mix for dual elevators that uses channel 8, so exactly what is the bug??? Very easy to setup a 9C with dual elevators, dual ailerons, rudder, and throttle with a six channel receiver.
Both radios have strong points, but both are no longer in production.
Pete
Even though you could select say channel 6 or 8 (whatever it was) the lower setting did not work.
Manual mixing can overcome this, but has it limits also.
The problem was documented somewhere in one of the non Futaba 9C manuals. It became an issue for me because I was using a Spectrum AR600 receiver and 2.4Ghz module.
Around the same time, I bought a Heli that came with a DX6i, so I just took the easy way out, and used it.
06-02-2012, 04:31 AM
#27
My Feedback: (1)
RE: Back in the saddle (almost.....)!!
I have Futaba 9CAP and Super 8 transmitters, both with the adjustable freq/channel setting modules, and an Airtronics RDS-8000 2.4 ghz that's new, still in the box. The batteries all check out good.
Hi,
If the Futaba 9CAP and 8UAPS radios has been sitting for 6 years I suggets new transmitter batteries in them. The new generation NiMh (Eneloop or Recyko for example) suit transmitters very well to replace NiCd battery packs (that is probably in these transmitters now?).
New receiver battery packs for the planes You have is a must also if the battery packs are 6 years old.
1. Are the Futaba's still usable, still meet any FCC / AMA / etc changes?
Almost all new radios today are 2.4 GHz and perhaps it is wise to go over to 2.4 GHz on at least the best of the two Futaba radios You have if you like the radios. Your Futaba 9CAP with a Futaba TM-8 module should make this radio up to date but you have to buy new Futaba or 3rd party FASST recievers.
Personally I prefer as few transmitters as possible since a modern transmitter can store so many models withsettings in memory today and it will be less maintenance to keep one radio running instead of3 radios in your case. And I try to standardise around one make (I use Futaba) - I do not prefer to mix to much equipment from various manufacturer.
2. Without having to go through 6 years of posts, is there a pamphlet / website / etc that I can read to get back up to speed on radios?
I do not think you need to know so much other then 2.4 GHz frequency is the norm today for new radios.
You need to know some basic things as how You bind transmitter to receiever, how you mount receiver(s) and antenna(s) in the plane correctly with 2.4 GHz receivers.
And You usually do not wrap 2.4 GHz receivers in soft foam as You did with 27/35/72 MHz recievers. Usually some velcro on underside and a velcro strap or similar that hold it securely in place is enough (heat from reciever must be able to go out and a reciever packed in foam prevent that) and components inside modern 2.4 Ghz recievers are not so sensitive to vibrations as in the past. I usually mount my recievers on a thin soft plastic plate and a cardboard on top of that and a thin cardboard around the reciever and under the reciever (and the mounting plate for the reciever) so it can not go anywhere. Since I use Futaba and their 2.4 FASST receivers that usually has two antennas they should point about 90 degrees from each other (preferably both horizintally and vertically 90 deg from each other, if possible). That makes sure signal can reach the reciever regardless of plane position in the air.
A 2.4 GHz transmitter antenna should have its broad side towards plane during flight - not the tip - since signal strenght is largest from broad side of antenna.
Do not touch the 2.4 Ghz transmitter antenna while flying since that will reduce the signal and range.
Most of above will be in manual for a 2.4 Ghz radio, or 2.4 Ghz receiever / 2.4 GHz transmitter module (for radios that has TX module).
3. I have a 10' X 20' storage room full of kits / arfs from floor to ceiling, and another 5' X 10' room with built planes. What's the best way to find out about electrifying these?
Try this to start with:
http://www.rcgroups.com/glow-to-elec...nversions-247/
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_132/tt.htm
4. NI-MH batteries were state of the art back then for planes. If I want to shift to electric, what are the best batteries to use and a simple, not-too-expensive charger?
LiPo is what You use in most cases as power source for electric planes today. It is possible to use LiFe also but they are heavier.
Hobby King sell some cheaper LiPo (not necessarily bad but chance of getting a bad pack or cell in a pack maybe is little higher on the very cheap LiPo brands).
On the more expensive scale You have Hyperion, ThunderPower, DesirePower perhaps but just because they are more expensive they are not best just because of that.
Some simple rule to follow on LiPo:
- You usually balance charge LiPo (if more then 1 cell LiPo) but you do not need to balance charge every charge. For example if charing at the flying field from an external battery like marine or such maintenance 12 volt Pb battery You can charge to about 95% of battery capacity since the remaning % is what takes time when charger balance the cell voltage (full charge cut of cell voltage is usually set to 4.20 volt per cell).
- Do not run LiPo cell completely empty - You chould have about 20% kapacity left in battery after flight (with 10% as absulute minimum left). If You do not follow that the life of the LiPo battery will be shorter.
- When not using the LiPo for a week or so have them storage charged with about 50-60% of capacity left in the battery. Many charger has a storage mode you can use to get the LiPo charged for this. LiPo should not be stored for longer periods fully charged.
- If You are in no hurry when charging 1-2 C charging is enough although some LiPo can handle to be charged up to about 5C.
- Never charge a LiPo in the plane, charge the LiPo in a LiPo safety sack. Store LiPo batteries at home in LiPo sacks, a pot or similar non flamable material.
Most glow powered planes can be converted to electric but what usually makes it little difficult is with tri gear planes to get prop clearance with electric motors since they prefer larger props (and lower RPM). But You can find high RPM electric motors with higher Kv (You need to look up what that mean) that can be used with smaller props similar or close to what glow engines use. Cooling of the electronic speedcontroler (ESC) and the batteries - and the motor iteslf - must also be solved. Air must be able to flow over motor, ESC and battery pack to keep them cool. And air that enter for cooling must exit somewhere (usually one make some exit holes on inderside of fuselage behind wing).
Chargers:
You probably want to start with a charger that can charge 6-7 cell LiPo if you want to use up to 6 cell LiPo in a plane (50-60 seize planes) . If You want to use for example 8 or 10 cell You can use two 4 cell or two 5 cell LiPo inseries. How many mAh you want for the LiPo depends how long you want to fly and how heavy the battery can be in the plane. As for the C rating (like 25C, 35C, 45C, 65C) of the LiPo you must know how much current the setup will draw but for sport flying 35C will usually be OK, for high RPM electric ducted fan models you may start looking at 45 or 65C batteries. Higher C rated batteries are little heavier so watch out with that. For example with a 5000 mAh (5 Ah) LiPo with 35C You can draw 35 x 5 Amp = 175 Amp ifyou need, at least in theory.
It is usually no point to buy higher C rated battery then You need but for flexibilityand to be able to use it in various planes that mayhave different current demands itcan be good to buy perhaps 35 or 45C rated batteries from start (that is whatI do). How many cell you may need in a plane you convert from glow to electric depend of its seize, weight and typ of flying the plane is designed for
(sport, acrobatic, 3D etc).
There are chargers with dualcharge outputs so You can charge two batteries at the same time if you want.
You can find suitable chargers from Hyperion, Thunderpower,Revo, iCharger etc.
IfYou buy a 12 volt chargerYou need a DC powersupplyalso so You can charge athome easy.
Another tip is from the start standardize on the connectors on ESC and battery packs You use so You do not have to many different types of connectors. To solder connectors may be little tricky at first but after some practiceit is rather easy.
The modern electric motors, ESC and LiPo has really made electric flying very reliable and easy today in my opinion.
I have some electric planes myself (from Sebart) and I use Hacker electric motors and ESC from Hacker and Castle Creations. LiPo batteries I use are from HyperIon, ThunderPower and DesirePower.
Image below with one of my planes when I was flying one week ago.
Good luck with the electric transition and welcome back to the hobby.
/Bo
Hi,
If the Futaba 9CAP and 8UAPS radios has been sitting for 6 years I suggets new transmitter batteries in them. The new generation NiMh (Eneloop or Recyko for example) suit transmitters very well to replace NiCd battery packs (that is probably in these transmitters now?).
New receiver battery packs for the planes You have is a must also if the battery packs are 6 years old.
1. Are the Futaba's still usable, still meet any FCC / AMA / etc changes?
Almost all new radios today are 2.4 GHz and perhaps it is wise to go over to 2.4 GHz on at least the best of the two Futaba radios You have if you like the radios. Your Futaba 9CAP with a Futaba TM-8 module should make this radio up to date but you have to buy new Futaba or 3rd party FASST recievers.
Personally I prefer as few transmitters as possible since a modern transmitter can store so many models withsettings in memory today and it will be less maintenance to keep one radio running instead of3 radios in your case. And I try to standardise around one make (I use Futaba) - I do not prefer to mix to much equipment from various manufacturer.
2. Without having to go through 6 years of posts, is there a pamphlet / website / etc that I can read to get back up to speed on radios?
I do not think you need to know so much other then 2.4 GHz frequency is the norm today for new radios.
You need to know some basic things as how You bind transmitter to receiever, how you mount receiver(s) and antenna(s) in the plane correctly with 2.4 GHz receivers.
And You usually do not wrap 2.4 GHz receivers in soft foam as You did with 27/35/72 MHz recievers. Usually some velcro on underside and a velcro strap or similar that hold it securely in place is enough (heat from reciever must be able to go out and a reciever packed in foam prevent that) and components inside modern 2.4 Ghz recievers are not so sensitive to vibrations as in the past. I usually mount my recievers on a thin soft plastic plate and a cardboard on top of that and a thin cardboard around the reciever and under the reciever (and the mounting plate for the reciever) so it can not go anywhere. Since I use Futaba and their 2.4 FASST receivers that usually has two antennas they should point about 90 degrees from each other (preferably both horizintally and vertically 90 deg from each other, if possible). That makes sure signal can reach the reciever regardless of plane position in the air.
A 2.4 GHz transmitter antenna should have its broad side towards plane during flight - not the tip - since signal strenght is largest from broad side of antenna.
Do not touch the 2.4 Ghz transmitter antenna while flying since that will reduce the signal and range.
Most of above will be in manual for a 2.4 Ghz radio, or 2.4 Ghz receiever / 2.4 GHz transmitter module (for radios that has TX module).
3. I have a 10' X 20' storage room full of kits / arfs from floor to ceiling, and another 5' X 10' room with built planes. What's the best way to find out about electrifying these?
Try this to start with:
http://www.rcgroups.com/glow-to-elec...nversions-247/
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_132/tt.htm
4. NI-MH batteries were state of the art back then for planes. If I want to shift to electric, what are the best batteries to use and a simple, not-too-expensive charger?
LiPo is what You use in most cases as power source for electric planes today. It is possible to use LiFe also but they are heavier.
Hobby King sell some cheaper LiPo (not necessarily bad but chance of getting a bad pack or cell in a pack maybe is little higher on the very cheap LiPo brands).
On the more expensive scale You have Hyperion, ThunderPower, DesirePower perhaps but just because they are more expensive they are not best just because of that.
Some simple rule to follow on LiPo:
- You usually balance charge LiPo (if more then 1 cell LiPo) but you do not need to balance charge every charge. For example if charing at the flying field from an external battery like marine or such maintenance 12 volt Pb battery You can charge to about 95% of battery capacity since the remaning % is what takes time when charger balance the cell voltage (full charge cut of cell voltage is usually set to 4.20 volt per cell).
- Do not run LiPo cell completely empty - You chould have about 20% kapacity left in battery after flight (with 10% as absulute minimum left). If You do not follow that the life of the LiPo battery will be shorter.
- When not using the LiPo for a week or so have them storage charged with about 50-60% of capacity left in the battery. Many charger has a storage mode you can use to get the LiPo charged for this. LiPo should not be stored for longer periods fully charged.
- If You are in no hurry when charging 1-2 C charging is enough although some LiPo can handle to be charged up to about 5C.
- Never charge a LiPo in the plane, charge the LiPo in a LiPo safety sack. Store LiPo batteries at home in LiPo sacks, a pot or similar non flamable material.
Most glow powered planes can be converted to electric but what usually makes it little difficult is with tri gear planes to get prop clearance with electric motors since they prefer larger props (and lower RPM). But You can find high RPM electric motors with higher Kv (You need to look up what that mean) that can be used with smaller props similar or close to what glow engines use. Cooling of the electronic speedcontroler (ESC) and the batteries - and the motor iteslf - must also be solved. Air must be able to flow over motor, ESC and battery pack to keep them cool. And air that enter for cooling must exit somewhere (usually one make some exit holes on inderside of fuselage behind wing).
Chargers:
You probably want to start with a charger that can charge 6-7 cell LiPo if you want to use up to 6 cell LiPo in a plane (50-60 seize planes) . If You want to use for example 8 or 10 cell You can use two 4 cell or two 5 cell LiPo inseries. How many mAh you want for the LiPo depends how long you want to fly and how heavy the battery can be in the plane. As for the C rating (like 25C, 35C, 45C, 65C) of the LiPo you must know how much current the setup will draw but for sport flying 35C will usually be OK, for high RPM electric ducted fan models you may start looking at 45 or 65C batteries. Higher C rated batteries are little heavier so watch out with that. For example with a 5000 mAh (5 Ah) LiPo with 35C You can draw 35 x 5 Amp = 175 Amp ifyou need, at least in theory.
It is usually no point to buy higher C rated battery then You need but for flexibilityand to be able to use it in various planes that mayhave different current demands itcan be good to buy perhaps 35 or 45C rated batteries from start (that is whatI do). How many cell you may need in a plane you convert from glow to electric depend of its seize, weight and typ of flying the plane is designed for
(sport, acrobatic, 3D etc).
There are chargers with dualcharge outputs so You can charge two batteries at the same time if you want.
You can find suitable chargers from Hyperion, Thunderpower,Revo, iCharger etc.
IfYou buy a 12 volt chargerYou need a DC powersupplyalso so You can charge athome easy.
Another tip is from the start standardize on the connectors on ESC and battery packs You use so You do not have to many different types of connectors. To solder connectors may be little tricky at first but after some practiceit is rather easy.
The modern electric motors, ESC and LiPo has really made electric flying very reliable and easy today in my opinion.
I have some electric planes myself (from Sebart) and I use Hacker electric motors and ESC from Hacker and Castle Creations. LiPo batteries I use are from HyperIon, ThunderPower and DesirePower.
Image below with one of my planes when I was flying one week ago.
Good luck with the electric transition and welcome back to the hobby.
/Bo
