stoneenforcer

My Feedback: (23)

[quote]ORIGINAL: BuschBarber

I have enjoyed JR/Spectrum products for years and Futaba before that.



Same here bushbarber. been flying for 24 years. flew futaba when it was just a gold box. dx6 and 7 were both good to me. a few lock outs but due to lousy receivers not seeing signals. changed rx's and never had an issue again. with mass mfg'ing there's bound to be a hick up along the way. problem is most of these issue should be detected in RD/Testing and QC. However, the products are pushed out the door so quickly, these products get QC'd by us.

wl7cpa

For what it is worth. I have owned a Hitec Aurora 9 for 2 years now. I have logged 250 hours on it (it has a clock). I have had zero issues with it. Not one. I had an old Eclipse 7 -72 mhz radio by hitec. I broke the handle and back off of it dropping it. I sent it in to Hitec in Pomway, CA. They sent it back calibrated, new back, new handle and replaced a gimble. They charged me nothing. I see Spectrums falling out of the sky left and right. I don't work for Hitec, I know this sounds like a commercial, but I sure would give them a try when y'all get tired of crashin' planes....

AndyKunz

So you only own AR9020's and AR10000's and maybe a very few other high-end receivers?

While the pins are physically identical, the connectors insert in an unusual manner. That's what I'm asking you about. If you look at the rx from the side with servo leads plugged in, you will see the colors arranged brown/red/orange/orange/red/brown. This is different than most of our other receivers.

Also, because of the labels, you might have inserted the bind plug into a different port than you though. Try putting two bind plugs into the two possible sockets, then applying power with the negative lead at the edge of the rx.

Guess again. That's not necessarily correct.

Andy

wbcmmc615

Hey here is my 2 cents worth I have a DX8 with a stock battery before the upgrade from DSM to DX I did not have any problems at all I have 3 (1/4)

stoneenforcer

My Feedback: (23)

yeah.. been there tried that on both. Ultimately, both units came from Horizon. As the LHS buys from them.

rmh

Why a model quits is the real question
The brand is not even relevant.
New batteries? - unless batteries were the problem - not an issue
I have worked professionally at determining causes of accidents . There is a procedure which is important in reviewing accidents
Just saying "it's a Spektrum DX8 and they have problems" is of no real value.
It is much like the infamous Toyota unintended accelleration issue .

llindsey1965

My Feedback: (-1)

rmh  all the batteries were brand new and all were nimh  fully charged and load tested before the flights  , the engines did not quit they had no control of the plane , none what so ever  , just watched it go into the ground doesnt take a rocket scientist to tell there is a trans or rx problem!!!! 

llindsey1965

My Feedback: (-1)

im not trying to be a smart ass just letting you know what happened and it happened all to dx8  that is all i am saying

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

Good post. Just like any problem finding you must gather accurate facts before you can come up with a resolution, anything else is speculation and mostly blowing wind making assumptions about things that are not facts. Too many come to conclusions about something they have not properly investigated. Plane dives in the ground and someone says, "it is the radio" and yet it was a bad connector all along. I am often amazed at how folks will assume something based on hardly any facts at all.

As you put it, "it's a Spektrum DX8 and they have problems" is of no real value. It is like saying, I feel bad, I am sure it is a disease. Both statements have no value without factual informatoin.

llindsey1965

My Feedback: (-1)

you are correct but as i stated all batteries were new and fully charged and load tested and were 6 volt packs , not just because it is a dx8 even if it were a futaba or jr i would still say there is a problem , the only mistake i know of was they did not range test i range test before every flight and load test

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

You may indeed have a radio issue. It is entirely possible and maybe even probably in your case as it seems you have been thorough in checking out your components. Once you can get it checked out it would be interesting to see what the final outcome is. That many crashes would probably turn me away if I did find out it was a radio problem. That would be discouraging. I have crashed three planes since last fall and all three was entirely my stupidity [X(]

Last fall I had my AW Extra coming in and I was flying slow and lazily dropped it to a wing tip and I thought it did not hurt it real bad, but tore the fuse in half and busted it up terrible. The next plane I crashed was a 300 Extra that I dove in on the maiden because I had reversed ailerons (I am shamed [X(]) and that was just stupid big time. The third plane and one of my favorites was my Rev 70 which I was flying and my perception got clouded and I scraped the top of a tree and it fell down through the tree totalling the plane!

Of course none of these were radio or reciever issues. I have flown hundreds upon hundreds of flights over the last three years and never a glitch on my radio, however I am not so ignorant to believe that it could not happen to me. I have a buddy that got a new DX8 and he has had it for a month or so and so far it has worked flawlessly. I guess sometimes it is amazing that more problems don't happen these systems. I wonder if you have an antenna issue inside the radio that is the culprit. I hope you don't have any more problems no matter what radio you use - crashing is costly.

llindsey1965

My Feedback: (-1)

dont feel bad i dont have the dx18 i was there when the incidents occured , but heck i put a extra 300 in because i chose the wrong model and airelons were reversed , now i always double check i fly the futaba 9c and converted it to 2.4 with the futaba module and 9c rec,
the guys who had the problems all were about 100 yards out 50 foot high when it happened , we immediatly checked the radios and the system was working except when you walked about 40 feet it would completely stop working this however could have been due to the hard impact , we checked the batteries and load tested them all was fine , it was like everything was fine then they had no control at all , can happen to any radio , just concerned we had 3 at our field one weekend , that is what concerned me and all were new radios , batteries and rx , anyway feel bad for my buddies 2 og the planes were 27% aircraft and the other was a giant sweet stick and all were gas engines , possible that could have something to do with it but the ignition batteries and ignition box were both mounted secure and grounded and the plug cap was on tight . dont know what else could have been the problem but either the rx or tx

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

I recently suffered a radio glitch with my Airtronics SD-10g. I had a 2000Mah 6v NiMH receiver pack that I had slow charged (1/10th C or 200Mah charge rate) before flying. My first flight went off without a hitch, but on my second flight I noticed some delayed responses when doing rolling manuevers. I'd roll the plane inverted, and when I went to flip it back to right side up, the ailerons wouldn't react for a second or two.

I managed to finish my flight safely and land succussfully. Once back on the ground, a range test showed that I had jittering control surfaces at 35 paces while in low power mode. I'd never had any kind of radio glitch with my SD-10g, and I'd just flown two other planes with it without issue. The receiver in the plane that glitched was one I've flown for years that had never been crashed.

My problem? I'd used a brand new, fully charged and load-tested NiMH pack that hadn't been properly cycled enough. I realized I'd only slow charged it the one time before taking the plane out to the field. I packed up and took the plane home. I put it on my battery charger and cycled it three times at 200Mah down then 200Mah up. A couple of days later (the three cycles took about 40 hours total at 1/10th C down then up), the plane range tested perfectly without the jitters and it has never "glitched" again.

If you don't properly "shape charge" or "season" your NiMH packs before flying them, you'll likely experience radio glitches with any brand of radio. This can happen with 72Mhz or 2.4Ghz radio platforms.

I knew better, and I still flew without properly cycling my new receiver pack because I was excited to fly the plane. I meant to cycle the battery more before that first flight, but after I wrapped it in foam and tucked it into the fuselage, I forgot that it was a completely brand new pack. How many pilots do you know who probably have no idea that they should slow cycle their NiMH packs three to five times before flying them? How many pilots do you know who may have been told this before, but who couldn't possibly stand to wait an extra 48 hours to fly their new plane because their receiver pack needs to cycle?

The DX8 certainly had a difficult birth, but Horizon Hobby has worked tenaciously to iron out the issues that have popped up since the radio's initial release. Some of the best RC pilots that I know fly the DX8, and swear by the DX8. These same guys experienced problems initially and worked with Horizon's outstanding service and support team to get them resolved. The current revision of the Spektrum DX8 with up to date firmware and using a DSMX receiver is just as reliable as the Futaba 8FG, the Aurora 9, the JR XG8, or the Airtronics SD-10g.

I honestly believe that the majority of "radio problems" or "radio lockouts" are actually due to battery issues. Too many pilots are ill informed about the proper care and handling of NiMH packs. Our original poster never mentioned whether he took the time to slow cycle his receiver packs three to five times before he tried flying them. Hopefully he did. The phrase "brand new batteries" ought to be a red flag when you're reading many of these "Brand X radio killed my airplanes" stories, along with the ubiquitous, "I just lost my brand new plane to my Brand X radio" post.

Transmitters and receivers don't kill airplanes; new receiver batteries that haven't been cycled properly kill airplanes.

TimBle

With NiMH packs you need to take them through a forming charge of about 16 -24 hrs depending on capacity. They don't need to be cycled 5 times!

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

The receiver pack that I'd mentioned previously had a 16-to-24 hour forming charge on it and it exhibited the glitching that I described. Cycling it three times at 1/10th C eliminated the glitching. I'm not disagreeing with you in principle, TimBle, only describing what happened and what resolved the issue. Would you at least concur that many RC pilots aren't quite so cautious as you are with their new receiver batteries?

bruceal

On my .40 and .60 size planes I use the Hydra Max 4c 2000mah batteries. I load check them and only fly if they are over 5.1 volts. I have yet to have a "brown out" or total loss of control. I fly almost every day, and I fly aggressively. I use an 8FG and before that my first radio was a 6EX. At my flying club's, I have seen many Spektrum failures involving people who have been in the hobby a lot longer than me. I'm assuming that they have enough common sense to check their batteries prior to each flight. In fairness to Spektrum, I see so many discussions like this and they often turn to which reciever was used. As a consumer, if I buy a radio, I expect the manufacturer to provide a system that works. I shouldn't have to look to what reciever will not fail with my radio.
I have watched people lose planes and still kept their DX6,DX7 etc., only to remain brand loyal and install yet another reciever or more satellites to "correct the problem." I have watched more than one foam glider with a DX5 sail away into the sunset. To each his own, but for my money and the safety of my flying field I will choose something that works.

TimBle

I can't comment for what many RC Pilots do but the ones I fly with do conduct a forming charge on the their NiMH batteries. If I use the sae lot as an example very few read instructions and perhaps this is where little tricks are being missed. The genral mode of learning for the avergae RC pilot is what their instructor tells them and what people who are flying longer tell them.

NOTE: I did not say more experience, more skilled, more cautious, more knowledgable.


Bruceal said " I have watched people lose planes and still kept their DX6,DX7 etc., only to remain brand loyal and install yet another reciever or more satellites to "correct the problem." I have watched more than one foam glider with a DX5 sail away into the sunset. To each his own, but for my money and the safety of my flying field I will choose something that works."

I've been witness to similar events with at least 5 friends in the hobby. All but two have remained brand loyal. One bloke lfies only park flyers and ditched his DX5e and now buys only RTF stuff with a radio included. He's not had any further incident. In all cases where the operator has stayed the same and Tx swop out occurred, probems have disappeared. This is not a scientific test but guess what, the guy buying the stuff and using the equipment isn't interested in whether there is scientific data to tell him its the hardware. He/she lost a plane and thats all that matters. ALl the brand loyalists do is push the problem back to the user and guess what?! It annoys them even further and they opt for another brand anyway!

Radio equipment is like golf clubs. When you find a good one that works for you, marry it!

P47Tbolt

My Feedback: (20)

I have found from doing some voltage testing from the battery pack to any receiver,you will have a certain
amount of voltage drop due to connections and switches.I just setup a Wild hare Edge 540 50cc using Power HD 1501mg servos,DX8 and an AR8000 receiver with telemetry.
Battery is a Hobbico Life 6.6v 2100 with 2 switches.One switch is a JR chargeswitch(JRPA004),the other is a switch I bought from
the Perry r/c swapmeet for $10.00 that looks like a JR chargeswitch but is not.with the telemetry I can see what voltage is at the receiver from the DX8.It records min and max voltage automatically on screen.With just the $10.00 switch on my voltage was dropping to 3.9v from 6.6 while operating all servos.With just the JR switch on the voltage would drop to 5.6v from 6.6 while operating servos.with both switches on it would drop to 5.9v from 6.6 while operating servos.
voltage drop is servo load and from resistance in cheap switch,you also have some resistance in all the connections between receiver and battery.keep connections to a minimum.Also use HD servo extensions with gold plated terminals for a very good connection.
And try not to plug/unplug connections often.each time you plug/unplug,it expands the female side and eventually it will loose its tension.
With a 4.8v pack with a bad connection or cheap switch it will be enough to make the receiver reboot/brownout whatever you want to call it. With a 6.0v pack with loose/dirty/ connections or a cheap switch it still can drop enough voltage also.

I have setup all my planes that are on Spektrum using this way and never seen a problem,
by checking to see what voltage is at the receiver,I know what is there.You can not put a 6.0v pack on a system
and hope you get 6.0v there.you make sure you get the voltage there by testing it with a voltmeter at the receiver.
People just hook everything up and say its got a 6.0v battery,should be good. May have 6.0v at battery,but by the time it gets to the receiver,it will be less.You just need to take the time and make sure you are getting as much as that 6.0v from the battery to the receiver while under load(moving servos) as possible through by CHECKING VOLTAGE AT THE RECEIVER NOT THE CHARGE JACK OR BATTERY.

As far as my credentials on this,
no I am not an electrical engineer
but

I am a GM Mastertech
ASE Mastertech
specialize in
Electrical repairs
I am constantly looking at problems on GM products
pertaining to voltages/voltage drop within the GM high speed
and low speed communications between computer modules.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

One thing good is starting to come out of this thread now is that we have some good info for a change that might help those of us less knowledgeable about our batteries and other electronic equipment. It is not so much about, "Get a Futaba and be done with these Spekcrap radios" but more about getting some factual info and learning from it.

One thing I have found very interesting is that someone can have so many problems with a radio then sell it and the next guy never have an issue with it. To me that should be indicating something to look deeper into. An example might be if several guys crash three planes in the same area of the field then look at what common denominator might be a culprit. Could something be causing severe interference? Is there some odd disturbance? Are the planes setup the same with like equipment?

Before any determination can be made you must gather relevant info and sort out what is related and unrelated to the problem. The collected data will suggest things that can be tested. Something like, "new crap radio brought two planes down today" is not relevant unless facts can prove it after the problem has been indentified and the hypothesis tested to prove a conclusion.

Here is an example: A couple years ago I kept having control issues at the same place at one end of the field. I was sure something was causing radio interference at that end of the field, but nothing is even around there but our mower shed with a solar charger. One would think since it occurred at that end of the field every time something in that shed was causing it.

This was NOT the case. There was nothing in that mower shed or area that was causing it this control loss. After much research gathering relevant data I was able to uncover it. It just so happened that the vibrations of the plane caused a momentary disconnect on take-off and left bank at precisely the same time. It really had nothing to do with the area just so happened that all the "stars lined up" at that area.

Once the connector was fixed, no more issues. This is a perfect example of how something not at fault could be blamed. If I had of crashed the plane would I have known that it was not the radio's fault? Think about it some because how easily I could have blamed my radio system, yet I was flying other planes hundreds of times. If you are flying other planes ok then you might want to think about why it is only occuring on certain airplanes - just sayin'

Thanks again for all the great and very helpful info.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

BTW, what do you use to check your voltage at the receiver? Do you have an inline method that intercepts the current and you can still utilize your controls to test voltage?

rmh

This is actually very easy to do: First , remember that voltages are the same throughout the wiring system UNLESS there is a device which can change it .
regulators do this.
buy a small volt meter and simply plug it into th rx plug strip- -add a Y to any port if necessary and plug the meter into that.
Just make it easy to see .
Turn on the system
Tho the rx work at 3.5 volts, YOU MUST NOT consider that in any tests!!!!!
What you need to know is how much the battery you use changes in voltage as you madly cycle and full travel check each and every servo.
For example only:
I use A123 batteries plugged directly into the rx in my pattern models (6.6v fully charged nominal reading)

I expect to NEVER see the voltage drop over .2 when cycle testing -even after a few flights .
This is because these cells have huge power output capabilities- better than anything else we use.
Now then
lets's change batteries to a partially full , 4 cell AA 2000ma pack.
In the same test the battery pack may read 5 volts at rest but cycling servos, may show a drop of over ONE VOLT
It is still above 3.5 so what's the problem?

The problem is that combined loads can easily depress THIS pack much lower.
The lesson?
use cells /packs which have maximum usable voltages (some servos are fussy) and have minimum voltage depression when testing
That's the really short course .
Electric powered models utilizing ESC/BEC combos, have a different set of issues - that is another story-

harttvboy04

My Feedback: (32)

Hi all,

I too have a DX8. I have used it for a while with minimal issue. AndyKunze here has also been kind to me to set up just about anything I could want to do with it.

I did have an issue that required me to send in my TX NOT as part of a recall, but because I noticed that while I was hovering my Slick, my Rudder would not do exactly what I wanted it to do. Ground testing with another TX helped my to identify that the issue was most likely my gimbal.

I sent the TX in and in 2 weeks I received it with a note stating that they replaced both gimbals and a capacitor. I did not even have to re-bind my models (which I did anyway just to play it safe).

I certainly can attest to the post above about poor quality switches and wiring.

I run 2 switches in all my giant scale stuff, and will NEVER touch a NIMH battery again for a rx. LiFe batteries are just too inexpensive and offer too high a reassurance that my voltage will be there when I need it - that is ONLY IF I DO MY JOB in making sure that equipment is properly setup.

I can only deduce that, perhaps, our Spektrum equipment might be a touch more sensitive to radio setup, but if one follows the guidelines and properly range tests either with telemetry or a data logger, you should experience no issues.

BTW, a proper range test is as follows.

Ask a second person to hold your plane and take 30-35 paces away.
Switch the TX into range test mode.
For ANY type of plane (gas, glow, electric) apply 1/4 throttle on the ground
Have the person holding your plane walk in slow circles, 1 or two should be just fine.
Check your data log/telemetry for frame losses, fades etc.

Spektrum states that if a sattelite/remote receiver has more than 100 fades it should be re-positioned prior to flight and re-tested to ensure less than 100 fades.

I play it far more safe and reduce that 100 figure to 50. This is difficult to attain, but if possible you have a virtually bulletproof system.

Model match is just the icing on the cake.

FWIW, I have seen and experienced failures from both systems. Because I work in I.T. I understand the concept of getting what I pay for. I purchase appropriate/overkill equipment for my applications and never experience an issue I can't solve myself.

BTW,

A buddy of mine has a 71" electric slick. He is using a JR 921x RX bound to his 9503 TX. When we range tested his plane via data log, we found that the antenae within the main RX were fading more than we liked. Shifting the angle to those antenae by about 40* fixed the issue, which was only found in range test mode, and walking the plane in circles. With a 3D aircraft, the circles are imperative. don't expenct the quality of ANY brand's signal to be the same when the aircraft is approaching vs. when it is going.

Thanks for reading my experiences objectively, and not taking this as a Spektrum promotion. If I thought there were a better product for my purposes, I would not hesitate to switch brands. Life is too short wasting time with crap equipment.

Best,

Chris

jefflangton

My Feedback: (23)

The prob is SPECTRUM!!!!! THERES 3 AT MY FIELD AND THEY'RE ALL CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!¡!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

harttvboy04

My Feedback: (32)

Quotations don't add credibility. Simply stating that something is crap and not backing it up is simple cowardess, and should be ignored. Justify your claim, please, so that we may understand your stance.

Best,

Chris

bipeflr

My Feedback: (8)

I was ready to jump in with my .02 cents worth until I read your post. You stated it much better than I could. Good job.....Jim