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Dx8 still has problems

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Old 06-15-2012, 07:16 AM
  #101
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I used to laugh at ignorance but now doesn't even bring a chuckle anymore [8D]
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:34 PM
  #102
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Must have had them in zeros. Har Har! wt
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:39 PM
  #103
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Default RE: Dx8 still has problems

I have yet to see an electronic device which is not subject to either total or intermitent failure.

How can you guys say that it is impossible for a TX to fail?

Even computers in manned spacecraft have failed. So have electronic instruments and ignitions in automobiles, computer hard drives, TVs, stero systems, electronic cameras and whatever other electronic device you care to pick, except the radio control aircraft transmitter according to what I've read here. What makes it so special that it's immune to failure?
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:55 PM
  #104
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: do335a

I have yet to see an electronic device which is not subject to either total or intermitent failure.

How can you guys say that it is impossible for a TX to fail?

Even computers in manned spacecraft have failed. So have electronic instruments and ignitions in automobiles, computer hard drives, TVs, stero systems, electronic cameras and whatever other electronic device you care to pick, except the radio control aircraft transmitter according to what I've read here. What makes it so special that it's immune to failure?
And exactly who made that statement?
I don't recall anyone saying that .
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:06 PM
  #105
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Default RE: Dx8 still has problems

The bottom line is that glitch-free software,error-free computers,and an interference-free radio link is only an ILLUSION .
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:27 PM
  #106
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: do335a

I have yet to see an electronic device which is not subject to either total or intermitent failure.

How can you guys say that it is impossible for a TX to fail?

Even computers in manned spacecraft have failed. So have electronic instruments and ignitions in automobiles, computer hard drives, TVs, stero systems, electronic cameras and whatever other electronic device you care to pick, except the radio control aircraft transmitter according to what I've read here. What makes it so special that it's immune to failure?
I don't think anyone stated that TX cannot fail. Anything can fail. A simple solder joint can come loose and that is "all she wrote" as they say. Because transmitters are not usually handled rough they are not the most subject to fail, but they certainly can. Heat is a problem with a lot of electrical components. I am in IT and we keep our data centers frigid for longer life and better operation of the equipment.

If radios failed a lot you would see a massive amount of planes scrapped. It is good thing that they are reliable or we would all be spending much more for this hobby.
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:45 PM
  #107
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Default RE: Dx8 still has problems

To the original poster. What position is your transmitter antenna in? I hope it was ot straight up. Also you cannot induce air loads in your shop. Moving the controls will allow you to check for a bind, however air loads in flight are greater than you may be aware of. A 5 cell battery fully charged is around 7 volts. If you are using digital servos you will not be airborne very long before you are in the 5 volt range. That said do what you want but if it were me, i would use a minimum 5000 mah. Good luck
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:55 PM
  #108
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: stoneenforcer


9020 pins/connectors are the same as every other spektrum rx in my shop. I clearly posted the admitted issue with these, from horizon.

reversing polarity will burn the rx up.

Well known not to be true. You can reverse the plug and not burn anything up, since plus and minus on the reversed plug does not line up. You WILL get a brief blink and then nothing.

I know for a fact that you can incorrectly plug into the 9020 as I did just that with the 9020 when I got my DX18. Once I re-evaluated the servo plug guide on the RX, I figured it out and plugged it up. All works perfectly.

While HH mentions that a very few RX have had issues, it does not mean that yours has that specific issue. Based on the description of what is happening to you, it could be a simple case of improperly plugged bind plug and power.

I would not dismiss this possibility out of hand. I would even be willing to post a picture of the bind plug and battery (Or ESC plug) in the correct sockets.
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:37 PM
  #109
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Default RE: Dx8 still has problems

I have to say that I learn from threads like this one. This one is most informative. Now I have a better idea what to look for in the event I have a problem. I thank you all.


Rick
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:59 PM
  #110
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I have been flying a dx6 for must be 4 years now with no problems in the air did find bad conection between main and sateilite rec replaced cable problem solved I have avoided many potential problems by doing good pm and pre flight. as far as power req i two use 6 volt power source rec will hadle 9.6 volt. as more functins and demands are placd on sys more power is req. I have and will continue use spectrum sys as for service I have never had to send anything in have always found and fixed my own minor problems.
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:00 PM
  #111
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We have been getting shafted for far too long when it comes to 2.4GHz radio systems.

Now millions are using the 2.4GHz unlicensed band everywhere and there is more to come.

When the band is saturated error occurs, the industry calls it "BROWNOUT" and cleverly blames it
on the battery pack!

It is too bad that we can not reboot a crashed model airplane.

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Old 06-16-2012, 05:46 AM
  #112
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Default RE: Dx8 still has problems

Bruce did an OK video (not perfectly accurate, but close enough to help folks understand) how the band works. He explains how the transmissions are done on different frequencies and at different times, enabling everybody to share even the same frequencies in the band without shooting each other down. You should watch it, it might help you understand why the sky is not falling.

Just 10 short years ago everybody had to take turns flying. Huge events like IRCHA and Joe Nall were impossible for large numbers of pilots to fly at the same time due to frequency conflicts and interactions. 6-8 pilots at a time was all most fields could handle. Now you have events where easily 100 radios should be expected to be on at the same time, and probably far more, yet the modern protocols continue to work just fine. Shoot, we encouraged mass flights several times where they had 60-70 pilots flying the models in close proximity, and that was just in one corner of the field!

Yes, eventually it is possible to saturate the entire spectrum, but I really don't think we have to worry about that anytime soon. I know what kind of testing we do, and I would have no problem flying my models with confidence with many other radios on at a time. Look at how well E-Fest works - the building is full of steel (a harsh environment for 2.4gHz), a bunch of models are in the air at the same time, it's in a city setting, there are over 20 different wireless computer networks operating, and everybody flies just fine.

Andy
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:31 AM
  #113
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: fragile



We have been getting shafted for far too long when it comes to 2.4GHz radio systems.

Now millions are using the 2.4GHz unlicensed band everywhere and there is more to come.

When the band is saturated error occurs, the industry calls it ''BROWNOUT'' and cleverly blames it
on the battery pack!

It is too bad that we can not reboot a crashed model airplane.

My father used to say..."If you want to believe that and it makes you feel better, go ahead..."

Brownout is a well documented situation thas has nothing to do with any type of RF interference.

If you have a brownout, the RX will be binking orange after the event, assuming the gear survives whatever happens. A lot of people sure forget to check that little detail.

Andy's well reasoned comments above explain the fact that band saturation is not a real issue. Some large and major events like Joe Nall have seen issues, when there were hundreds of radios turned on all over a large flying site, but that is a rare thing. Spectrum offering DSMX has nicely addressed that particular issue.
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:30 PM
  #114
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: P47Tbolt

I have found from doing some voltage testing from the battery pack to any receiver,you will have a certain
amount of voltage drop due to connections and switches.I just setup a Wild hare Edge 540 50cc using Power HD 1501mg servos,DX8 and an AR8000 receiver with telemetry.
Battery is a Hobbico Life 6.6v 2100 with 2 switches.One switch is a JR chargeswitch(JRPA004),the other is a switch I bought from
the Perry r/c swapmeet for $10.00 that looks like a JR chargeswitch but is not.with the telemetry I can see what voltage is at the receiver from the DX8.It records min and max voltage automatically on screen.With just the $10.00 switch on my voltage was dropping to 3.9v from 6.6 while operating all servos.With just the JR switch on the voltage would drop to 5.6v from 6.6 while operating servos.with both switches on it would drop to 5.9v from 6.6 while operating servos.
voltage drop is servo load and from resistance in cheap switch,you also have some resistance in all the connections between receiver and battery.keep connections to a minimum.Also use HD servo extensions with gold plated terminals for a very good connection.
And try not to plug/unplug connections often.each time you plug/unplug,it expands the female side and eventually it will loose its tension.
With a 4.8v pack with a bad connection or cheap switch it will be enough to make the receiver reboot/brownout whatever you want to call it. With a 6.0v pack with loose/dirty/ connections or a cheap switch it still can drop enough voltage also.

I have setup all my planes that are on Spektrum using this way and never seen a problem,
by checking to see what voltage is at the receiver,I know what is there.You can not put a 6.0v pack on a system
and hope you get 6.0v there.you make sure you get the voltage there by testing it with a voltmeter at the receiver.
People just hook everything up and say its got a 6.0v battery,should be good. May have 6.0v at battery,but by the time it gets to the receiver,it will be less.You just need to take the time and make sure you are getting as much as that 6.0v from the battery to the receiver while under load(moving servos) as possible through by CHECKING VOLTAGE AT THE RECEIVER NOT THE CHARGE JACK OR BATTERY.

As far as my credentials on this,
no I am not an electrical engineer
but

I am a GM Mastertech
ASE Mastertech
specialize in
Electrical repairs
I am constantly looking at problems on GM products
pertaining to voltages/voltage drop within the GM high speed
and low speed communications between computer modules.
My receiver battery pack is a Hobbico Life 6.6 with 3 leads.one is a deans connector and the other 2
are the usaul battery ends.I have 1 regular connector run to a JR HD switch then to the receiver.I have the deans
plug ran to an arming switch then to the receiver with HD 22 gauge wire with gold plated connectors.
here is the arming switch I am using. http://www.rcaccessory.com/AS1-K12.aspx
Reason to use this rather than a switch,you have almost no voltage drop
and the only way it will fail if the deans arming plug comes out.
Now when checking voltage at the receiver I have very little voltage drop. 6.6v no load//6.2v all servos under
load.
I flew this plane for the first time this weekend and did not have any loss of connection or brownouts.I did switch out the servos
from the Power HDs to Hitec 5645 due to a Power HD servo failure on another plane a few months back.
Also flying an Escapade,E-Flite Extra260 electric,Parkzone Extra 300 electric and a Hanger 9 Ultra Stick on Spektrum 2.4

I bought the DX8 that came with 3 receivers and telemtry,then bought another DX8 with 3 receivers/telemtry and sold
the DX8.almost got enough receivers to convert everything over.

My opinion,keep receiver voltage above 4.8v and you will not have any problems,
BUT you have to take the time and make sure it is at the receiver by testing/checking it.

Just my .02 Roy

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Old 07-02-2012, 03:22 AM
  #115
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Default RE: Dx8 still has problems

nothing is impossible in this world. Anyone can fail and miracles are also there.
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:22 PM
  #116
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I have read all 5 pages of this forum and I don't think anyone has mentioned that testing voltage with an analog or digital meter is NOT going to catch a very fast "brownout" that can occur in the power supply system whether you are using 4.8 volts supply or 6.00volt supply.

Somebody did mention that some receivers will catch the problem and display it on an LED. Very short brownouts can reboot the receiver even though your volt meter does not see the problem.

Another gadget is sold called the "Tattletale" which captures the lowest voltage reading every 10ms until it is reset. I use one in all new installations for awhile and plug it in any questionable battery.

I built hobby radios for 15 years (1968-1983) and one time received a call and was told by the customer that his elevator servo had reversed itself in the air (before reversing switches). I told him it wasn't possible but send me the radio. He sent the radio and he was right. The magnet in the servo motor had loosened and rotated 180 degrees under vibration. I never told anyone after that a malfunction was IMPOSSBLE.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:22 PM
  #117
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: sidgates

I have read all 5 pages of this forum and I don't think anyone has mentioned that testing voltage with an analog or digital meter is NOT going to catch a very fast "brownout" that can occur in the power supply system whether you are using 4.8 volts supply or 6.00volt supply.

Somebody did mention that some receivers will catch the problem and display it on an LED. Very short brownouts can reboot the receiver even though your volt meter does not see the problem.

Another gadget is sold called the "Tattletale" which captures the lowest voltage reading every 10ms until it is reset. I use one in all new installations for awhile and plug it in any questionable battery.

I built hobby radios for 15 years (1968-1983) and one time received a call and was told by the customer that his elevator servo had reversed itself in the air (before reversing switches). I told him it wasn't possible but send me the radio. He sent the radio and he was right. The magnet in the servo motor had loosened and rotated 180 degrees under vibration. I never told anyone after that a malfunction was IMPOSSBLE.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: sidgates
I have read all 5 pages of this forum and I don't think anyone has mentioned that testing voltage with an analog or digital meter is NOT going to catch a very fast "brownout" that can occur in the power supply system whether you are using 4.8 volts supply or 6.00volt supply.
Somebody did mention that some receivers will catch the problem and display it on an LED. Very short brownouts can reboot the receiver even though your volt meter does not see the problem.
Another gadget is sold called the "Tattletale" which captures the lowest voltage reading every 10ms until it is reset. I use one in all new installations for awhile and plug it in any questionable battery.
I built hobby radios for 15 years (1968-1983) and one time received a call and was told by the customer that his elevator servo had reversed itself in the air (before reversing switches). I told him it wasn't possible but send me the radio. He sent the radio and he was right. The magnet in the servo motor had loosened and rotated 180 degrees under vibration. I never told anyone after that a malfunction was IMPOSSBLE.
Thanks for this post - I am glad to see that someone has added both logic and experience into their post.
What I am seeing is that a lot of people are chiming in, but I am not seeing that most people are inputting experiences based on their knowledge of the product. I do not discount the fact that it is possible.
I also want to point out that just this evening, a friend of mine using a JR 922 rx dsmx had one remote receiver just drop all its packets continually. This was found with the use of a data log and range check. This was BRAND NEWand un-used. We tested The satellite in question on multiple ports on the rx and had the same result.
It does happen, but the event of loss of an aircraft is on the responsibility of the pilot.
Thanks all - there is a lot of good info here

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Old 07-03-2012, 03:47 AM
  #118
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: sidgates
...
Another gadget is sold called the "Tattletale" which captures the lowest voltage reading every 10ms until it is reset. I use one in all new installations for awhile and plug it in any questionable battery.
...
Ilooked up the Tattletale and here is a link: http://www.aero-works.net/store/detail.aspx?ID=443
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1164449 (more details)
$19.95 http://www.xtremepowersystems.net/pr...=XPS-TT&cat=10


Extremely small and reasonably priced. A person could easily buy one and swap it between planes and find out some good information about what is going on with their power systems. I'm running the Spektrum telemetry. I don't know how fast the voltage reading updates but it will read voltage drops - even with 2300 mAH A123's - when swirling the sticks.

If I didn't have this telemetry I would buy a Tattletale.

Paul

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Old 07-03-2012, 06:12 AM
  #119
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That looks interesting!

For $25, piece of mind as well...

Bill S<>
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:39 PM
  #120
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Default RE: Dx8 still has problems

When all is said and done, 22ga wire from a power source to the receiver is not optimum. It's OK to marginal for a limited number of servos, and marginal to not OK for more than five or so servos.
Digital servos can make the problem worse. Next, if the power source cannot deliver more than 3 to 5A, and maintain an acceptable voltage at the receiver, it's likely not enough.
As to slide switches - - there are a bunch out there that are cheap switches ,and cause problems. One of the things to do is to use a double pole switch, and wire the two poles in parallel.
If you add a main power safety jumper, remember that the additional wire to go two and from the jumper socket adds some resistance. The additional loss can be significant on an electric powered model that draws 50 to 100A or so.
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:50 AM
  #121
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I found something interesting in the DX8 manual,

CAUTION: When using the DX8 with parkflyer receivers (the

AR6100 and AR6110), it’s imperative that these receivers only be flown

in parkflyer-type aircraft (small electric airplanes or mini and micro

helicopters). Flying receivers designed for parkflyers in larger aircraft

could cause loss of connection.”



 

Between this and the extensive instructions on power requirements for receivers I think backs up the theory

that the problems are not the DX8 but more in the receiver power. I recently purchased a new DX8 and love it. I am not loyal to any manufacturer and this can be proven in my driveway. I have Chevy, Ford, and Honda. Everything I have is linked to Spektrum so rather than change everything to another brand I bought the DX8 to replace my DX7. I did read all of this thread before my purchase. As far as recalls they all have them but the nice thing with the DX8 is the fact that you can download programming upgrades and load the yourself instead of sending it to the factory. If you use Windows this is not an unusual process. Recently I reloaded Vista to an old laptop I had and found close to 200 updates for it on the Windows site. Now all of them are not repairs for bugs. A lot of them are improvements on the original program. This upgrade online, is one of the things I like about the DX8. I just thought I would throw in my 2 cents.



 

Rick

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Old 07-06-2012, 07:15 AM
  #122
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I had lost control of my Eflite T-34, at first I thought it was just a fluke of the wind, but after having it happen on another day with calm winds, I realized what the problem was, not the wind, but an actual loss of control.  After a couple more glitches I finally was able to bring it down, and not so nicely either, busted the firewall, cracked the center wing ribs, and munched the cowl.  Before I did anything, I popped off the canopy and saw the orange LEDs blinking.  

I first assumed it was a brownout from the DX8, reading that older RX had problems with the new DX8, but my radio did not fall in the range of codes with the problem.  After some research, here on the forum, and talking to HH, it was a brownout, not a link failure. The link failures have a red blinking light that flashes for every dropped link. 

I have since scrapped the motor and ESC and putting glow and a 5 cell 1600 mah pack in it, and will soon have it flying again.   I also use a pack tester on the batteries before every flight, one that puts a small load on the pack and reads back battery state so I will never have another brownout as long as I check before each flight. 

As far as the DX8 goes, I'm confident the problem was not the radio.  Right now I have 3 planes on the DX8 that I fly, and none of them ever had a red blinking light that I didn't cause by turning the TX off.   I didn't bother reading through all 5 pages, but has the OP specified he actually saw the red blinking light at any time that he didn't cause by switching off the TX? 
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:55 AM
  #123
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: acdii

I had lost control of my Eflite T-34, at first I thought it was just a fluke of the wind, but after having it happen on another day with calm winds, I realized what the problem was, not the wind, but an actual loss of control. After a couple more glitches I finally was able to bring it down, and not so nicely either, busted the firewall, cracked the center wing ribs, and munched the cowl. Before I did anything, I popped off the canopy and saw the orange LEDs blinking.

I first assumed it was a brownout from the DX8, reading that older RX had problems with the new DX8, but my radio did not fall in the range of codes with the problem. After some research, here on the forum, and talking to HH, it was a brownout, not a link failure. The link failures have a red blinking light that flashes for every dropped link.

I have since scrapped the motor and ESC and putting glow and a 5 cell 1600 mah pack in it, and will soon have it flying again. I also use a pack tester on the batteries before every flight, one that puts a small load on the pack and reads back battery state so I will never have another brownout as long as I check before each flight.

As far as the DX8 goes, I'm confident the problem was not the radio. Right now I have 3 planes on the DX8 that I fly, and none of them ever had a red blinking light that I didn't cause by turning the TX off. I didn't bother reading through all 5 pages, but has the OP specified he actually saw the red blinking light at any time that he didn't cause by switching off the TX?
Above you state you will use a "Pack Tester". As stated before very few meters respond fast enough to catch a fast voltage dip such as caused by servos start up load. I am not sure what you mean by "small load" In my opinion the load should be approx 2amps.
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:41 PM
  #124
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: rickmartin2010

I found something interesting in the DX8 manual,

CAUTION: When using the DX8 with parkflyer receivers (the

AR6100 and AR6110), it’s imperative that these receivers only be flown

in parkflyer-type aircraft (small electric airplanes or mini and micro

helicopters). Flying receivers designed for parkflyers in larger aircraft

could cause loss of connection.”



Between this and the extensive instructions on power requirements for receivers I think backs up the theory

that the problems are not the DX8 but more in the receiver power.......

One small clarification. The reason Spektrum says to not use parkflyer RX units in large models has nothing to do with power issues.

The small park type RX receivers do not have the remote aux satellite RX units of the larger AR6200, AR7000 and up or the extended RX antenna of the larger AR500 and AR600 RX units.

This makes it much easier for the small park type RX units to be "shadowed" while in a larger model and have their 2.4 TX signal possibly blocked by large metal engines, large lipo battery packs, large fuel tanks, large mufflers, large carbon fiber engine cowls and such.

The larger antenna "footprint" of the RX units above the AR500 size and up avoid this issue.

The AR6100 and AR6110 work perfectly with small electric models and small glow models, but could easily cause an issue in larger models.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:51 PM
  #125
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Default RE: Dx8 still has problems

The AR400 receiver is advertised as "full range". It it suitable for use with a DX8 in 40 to 90 size glow planes?
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