72 mhz still ok?
07-22-2012, 01:27 AM
#76
RE: 72 mhz still ok?
great points. I have airplane sheets, with all the programming info on them...I think I copied them from my futaba owners manual. I keep em in a folder. Standardizing was my reason to sell off everything but my futaba systems.
07-22-2012, 05:21 AM
#77
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RE: 72 mhz still ok?
ORIGINAL: BuschBarber
The Link can be interfered with but nowhere near the same degree as 72mhz. RF noise is rarely an issue with 2.4.
ORIGINAL: ramboy
The marketing hype saying the 2.4 Ghz link between transmitter and receiver can never be broken is flat out wrong.
ORIGINAL: BuschBarber
That is unfortunate. Being Shot Down by a pilot on the same frequency as you, while you have the Frequency Pin, cannot happen with a 2.4 radio.
ORIGINAL: ramboy
Tell that to the 2 beginners at my field who each lost a Hanger 9 Alpha 40 trainer with the Spectrum 2.4 transmitter. The receiver lost the link to the transmitter in both cases. A certified flight instructor was at the controls during both instances.
2.4 has one advantage. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT YOUR BUDDY SHOOTING YOU DOWN.
Tell that to the 2 beginners at my field who each lost a Hanger 9 Alpha 40 trainer with the Spectrum 2.4 transmitter. The receiver lost the link to the transmitter in both cases. A certified flight instructor was at the controls during both instances.
That is unfortunate. Being Shot Down by a pilot on the same frequency as you, while you have the Frequency Pin, cannot happen with a 2.4 radio.
The marketing hype saying the 2.4 Ghz link between transmitter and receiver can never be broken is flat out wrong.
I had built a Cunningham Lazy Ace powered with a fake radial engine made from A123 cells. I flew it several times using the 2.4 conversion.
XPS updated their equipment to provide a frequency hopping system if you wanted to use it. I took all of my XPS equipment and shipped it to XPS for the update. and switched my Lazy Ace to 72 to fly on while the xPS equipment was being updated.
I tried to take off the Lazy Ace but it turned over and crashed. The cheap Chinese ESC I was using made so much RF noise it wiped out the 72mhz system. It hadn't bothered the the 2.4 equipment.
I sold all of my 72mhz equipment on ebay and replaced it with 2.4 receivers.
07-22-2012, 06:16 AM
#78
RE: 72 mhz still ok?
ORIGINAL: BuschBarber
The Link can be interfered with but nowhere near the same degree as 72mhz. RF noise is rarely an issue with 2.4.
ORIGINAL: ramboy
The marketing hype saying the 2.4 Ghz link between transmitter and receiver can never be broken is flat out wrong.
ORIGINAL: BuschBarber
That is unfortunate. Being Shot Down by a pilot on the same frequency as you, while you have the Frequency Pin, cannot happen with a 2.4 radio.
ORIGINAL: ramboy
Tell that to the 2 beginners at my field who each lost a Hanger 9 Alpha 40 trainer with the Spectrum 2.4 transmitter. The receiver lost the link to the transmitter in both cases. A certified flight instructor was at the controls during both instances.
2.4 has one advantage. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT YOUR BUDDY SHOOTING YOU DOWN.
Tell that to the 2 beginners at my field who each lost a Hanger 9 Alpha 40 trainer with the Spectrum 2.4 transmitter. The receiver lost the link to the transmitter in both cases. A certified flight instructor was at the controls during both instances.
That is unfortunate. Being Shot Down by a pilot on the same frequency as you, while you have the Frequency Pin, cannot happen with a 2.4 radio.
The marketing hype saying the 2.4 Ghz link between transmitter and receiver can never be broken is flat out wrong.
The issue is being noticed by the AMA. There was an article in Model Aviation a few months back about the number of crashes with 2.4 radio equipment.
07-22-2012, 08:14 AM
#79
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RE: 72 mhz still ok?
ORIGINAL: ramboy
The issue is being noticed by the AMA. There was an article in Model Aviation a few months back about the number of crashes with 2.4 radio equipment.
ORIGINAL: BuschBarber
The Link can be interfered with but nowhere near the same degree as 72mhz. RF noise is rarely an issue with 2.4.
ORIGINAL: ramboy
The marketing hype saying the 2.4 Ghz link between transmitter and receiver can never be broken is flat out wrong.
ORIGINAL: BuschBarber
That is unfortunate. Being Shot Down by a pilot on the same frequency as you, while you have the Frequency Pin, cannot happen with a 2.4 radio.
ORIGINAL: ramboy
Tell that to the 2 beginners at my field who each lost a Hanger 9 Alpha 40 trainer with the Spectrum 2.4 transmitter. The receiver lost the link to the transmitter in both cases. A certified flight instructor was at the controls during both instances.
2.4 has one advantage. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT YOUR BUDDY SHOOTING YOU DOWN.
Tell that to the 2 beginners at my field who each lost a Hanger 9 Alpha 40 trainer with the Spectrum 2.4 transmitter. The receiver lost the link to the transmitter in both cases. A certified flight instructor was at the controls during both instances.
That is unfortunate. Being Shot Down by a pilot on the same frequency as you, while you have the Frequency Pin, cannot happen with a 2.4 radio.
The marketing hype saying the 2.4 Ghz link between transmitter and receiver can never be broken is flat out wrong.
The issue is being noticed by the AMA. There was an article in Model Aviation a few months back about the number of crashes with 2.4 radio equipment.
This was discussed at the large electric festival held at the Phoenix Arena a few years ago. It was planned to drop the support when the sales of 2.4 equipment exceeded the sales of 72 equipment. That has happened a long time ago. I have not heard anything about since that time.
07-22-2012, 09:31 AM
#80
RE: 72 mhz still ok?
[/quote]
The last I heard from the AMA was they are considering withdrawing their support of the 72mhz frequencies with the FCC. It will still be available for a long time but will be slowly compromised.
This was discussed at the large electric festival held at the Phoenix Arena a few years ago. It was planned to drop the support when the sales of 2.4 equipment exceeded the sales of 72 equipment. That has happened a long time ago. I have not heard anything about since that time.
[/quote]
Read the November, 2011 edition of Model Aviation page 161 - "Spatial issues pertaining to the use of 2.4 GHz radios" by Greg Hahn
07-22-2012, 10:06 AM
#81
RE: 72 mhz still ok?
They still make them.. .I think thats all you need to know.. in fact.. I have 2 72's as well as 2.4 and lets just say I'm never waiting for a freq pin anymore when I use the 72's In fact.. its amazing how many incorrect plane setups are out there now as many just force the correction at the xmitter... haveing never learned how to do it properly.
07-22-2012, 10:13 AM
#82
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RE: 72 mhz still ok?
ORIGINAL: ramboy
Read the November, 2011 edition of Model Aviation page 161 - ''Spatial issues pertaining to the use of 2.4 GHz radios'' by Greg Hahn
Read the November, 2011 edition of Model Aviation page 161 - ''Spatial issues pertaining to the use of 2.4 GHz radios'' by Greg Hahn
Greg Hahn is an American stand-up comedian. He is a frequent guest on the nationally syndicated The Bob & Tom Show,[1][2] and has several television appearances including Late Night with Conan O'Brien.[2][3] He also performs at numerous corporate functions and comedy clubs.[2] He is known for his highly energetic style of humor,[2] often speaking in loud, rapid bursts.
OK so its not the same guy.
07-22-2012, 10:15 AM
#83
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RE: 72 mhz still ok?
I have had 2 radio related issues in the 10 or so years of enjoying this hobby…one with 72Mhz and 1 with 2.4Ghz. The problem with 72Mhz was due to a transmitter on the same frequency with the antenna collapsed and impounded at the frequency board and left on. When I flew by a certain area in the pattern I got “hit†but managed to “fly through†the area. The first time I really didn’t know what happened but the 2nd time it was in exactly the same spot…this time I landed. Oh, and by the way, the radio that was left on…was mine! Ouch. The 2.4 Ghz issue was after hundreds of flights on a specific plane, I lost control for a few seconds twice in 1 flight, landed with no further control issues. I replaced the receivers in the plane and have had many flights with no issues. For me, I just don’t trust 2.4 Ghz, mostly because of the unknown. All of the problems associated with the old tried and true 72Mhz at least are pretty well known…2.4 Ghz remains a mystery, to me at least. If I recall Greg Hahn’s article in November 2011 MA, it finished with the comment that you can always go back to 72Mhz…So, I remain rigidly flexible about the issue.
M
M
07-22-2012, 12:07 PM
#84
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RE: 72 mhz still ok?
One issue i see with 2.4 is that it's a gold mine for r/c companys. Many thousands of perfectly working 72 systems are replaced with 2.4.One great leap with 2.4 is the telemetry functions built into the systems, you have thousands of flyers who must have every sensor,gps, speed,alt,temp gadget and that goes right into the goldmine, market driven economics at work! I fly 72 with multiplex evo 9, with senth, scanner modual, with this system it is impossible to shoot someone down if the warnings are followed. i fly 15 models on ch 44 with single conversion in small planes and dual conversion in large planes, and never had a radio related crash, [knock on wood] in 225 hours of operation! Hitec has discontinued 5 72 mhz receivers and 2 flight packs, and some transmitters. Must be because of reduced demand.
http://www.hitecrcd.com/products/air...aft/index.html
http://www.hitecrcd.com/products/air...aft/index.html
07-22-2012, 01:08 PM
#86
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RE: 72 mhz still ok?
OK I located my copy of Model Aviation and read the article.
Now I admit I have not read the references except for Cal Orrs. As I remember Cal was trying to prove 40 units could co-exist on 2.4 without interfering with one another. As I recall he proved that they could although there was some degradation of the range when he got most of them on.
As for the rest of the article it just delineates some of the problems we have with 2.4 and ends with a conclusion that if you have interference problems on 2.4 you can always switch to 72mhz.
I dare you to find an RF system you do not have problems with. The main one with 2.4 is it demands a stable power supply. If you fly with digital servos you have the same problem.
For the interference problem, on 72mhz, you have only one frequency to interfere with.
On the 2.4 spread spectrum system you must interfere with thousands of different frequencies within its 1 megacycle bandwidth for Spectrum and 4mhz for any switching system.
The author of the paper does not know how spread systems operate or he was not told to address it.
Now I admit I have not read the references except for Cal Orrs. As I remember Cal was trying to prove 40 units could co-exist on 2.4 without interfering with one another. As I recall he proved that they could although there was some degradation of the range when he got most of them on.
As for the rest of the article it just delineates some of the problems we have with 2.4 and ends with a conclusion that if you have interference problems on 2.4 you can always switch to 72mhz.
I dare you to find an RF system you do not have problems with. The main one with 2.4 is it demands a stable power supply. If you fly with digital servos you have the same problem.
For the interference problem, on 72mhz, you have only one frequency to interfere with.
On the 2.4 spread spectrum system you must interfere with thousands of different frequencies within its 1 megacycle bandwidth for Spectrum and 4mhz for any switching system.
The author of the paper does not know how spread systems operate or he was not told to address it.
07-22-2012, 03:48 PM
#87
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RE: 72 mhz still ok?
I still fly 72 MHz as I like radios that have analog trim tabs which let me know where my trim is without looking at the radio. I have a Futaba 7C 2.4 but prefer my Hitec Laser 6 as it is a much simpler radio to use. Probably will use the Hitec until it won't work any more and then begrudgingly switch.
07-22-2012, 07:23 PM
#88
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RE: 72 mhz still ok?
Flying in my field today , One the guys was flying far away and somehow he went out of range and lost control of his airplane, he was using a DX5.
45 minutes later, while I was flying my airplane ,1.20 Extra 300, during high speed pass , I felt like I had no control of the airplane for enough time to scare the hell out of me. I have been using this radio for two years without a single problem . Rds8000. The battery was full. What should I do?
3 Weeks ago I lost a four star 60 using a Futaba Skysport. 72 Mhz.
I have been using an Airtronics Vaguard 4 Ch. 20 years old without problem.
My conclusion:
1) It happens !!!!! with any brand new or old....72 or 2.4.
2)Do not fly any aitrplane that you can not afford to loose.
3)You are better off with a old but good 72 Mgz. radio, than a cheap 2.4 model.
5) Fly safe and never , never point the airplane to the crowds.......
45 minutes later, while I was flying my airplane ,1.20 Extra 300, during high speed pass , I felt like I had no control of the airplane for enough time to scare the hell out of me. I have been using this radio for two years without a single problem . Rds8000. The battery was full. What should I do?
3 Weeks ago I lost a four star 60 using a Futaba Skysport. 72 Mhz.
I have been using an Airtronics Vaguard 4 Ch. 20 years old without problem.
My conclusion:
1) It happens !!!!! with any brand new or old....72 or 2.4.
2)Do not fly any aitrplane that you can not afford to loose.
3)You are better off with a old but good 72 Mgz. radio, than a cheap 2.4 model.
5) Fly safe and never , never point the airplane to the crowds.......
07-23-2012, 02:50 AM
#89
RE: 72 mhz still ok?
Not certain that the subject here is which is superior . Is 72 MHz OK ? Yes , it is just fine. The AMA on the other hand is doing a very poor to negative numbers job of representing us if they are not continually working to maintain the 72 MHz allotment . As 2.4 fills up with the plethora of devices , even using spread spectrum , problems will appear and increase .
I fly on 50 MHz and will continue to do so, no thanks to the paid "help" from our short-sighted "friends" at the AMA .
I fly on 50 MHz and will continue to do so, no thanks to the paid "help" from our short-sighted "friends" at the AMA .
07-23-2012, 05:57 AM
#90
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RE: 72 mhz still ok?
ORIGINAL: Ladyflyer
Not certain that the subject here is which is superior . Is 72 MHz OK ? Yes , it is just fine. The AMA on the other hand is doing a very poor to negative numbers job of representing us if they are not continually working to maintain the 72 MHz allotment . As 2.4 fills up with the plethora of devices , even using spread spectrum , problems will appear and increase .
I fly on 50 MHz and will continue to do so, no thanks to the paid ''help'' from our short-sighted ''friends'' at the AMA .
Not certain that the subject here is which is superior . Is 72 MHz OK ? Yes , it is just fine. The AMA on the other hand is doing a very poor to negative numbers job of representing us if they are not continually working to maintain the 72 MHz allotment . As 2.4 fills up with the plethora of devices , even using spread spectrum , problems will appear and increase .
I fly on 50 MHz and will continue to do so, no thanks to the paid ''help'' from our short-sighted ''friends'' at the AMA .
I think the power limit on 50mhz is 1kw. Someone hundreds of miles from you could shoot you down if the atmospheric conditions are correct.
For your benefit, not many use 50mhz anymore.
07-23-2012, 06:23 AM
#91
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RE: 72 mhz still ok?
All of these systems are ok to use and still viable. They are all subject to interference and all have their problems. I dont beleive that one is better than the other. At the end of the day you just try to do the best you can with what you have, the best radio in the world cant prevent operator error, poor installation, or bad practices. I have yet to make the leap to 2.4 only due to the abundance of high end 72 stuff for sale at great prices. Alot of people went to 2.4 believing that it was the end all to end all, and abandoned their 72 stuff only to find it to has some problems. Choosing the correct system for your particular application also makes a difference, like the submarine guys. I would suggest to anyone new to the hobby to look into any of these systems, because all of them (properly used) work great and will get the job done.
07-23-2012, 08:42 AM
#93
RE: 72 mhz still ok?
ORIGINAL: dirtybird
All of those 2.4 devices are limited to 100mw power output. If they are 20 miles from you they mean nothing.
I think the power limit on 50mhz is 1kw. Someone hundreds of miles from you could shoot you down if the atmospheric conditions are correct.
For your benefit, not many use 50mhz anymore.
ORIGINAL: Ladyflyer
Not certain that the subject here is which is superior . Is 72 MHz OK ? Yes , it is just fine. The AMA on the other hand is doing a very poor to negative numbers job of representing us if they are not continually working to maintain the 72 MHz allotment . As 2.4 fills up with the plethora of devices , even using spread spectrum , problems will appear and increase .
I fly on 50 MHz and will continue to do so, no thanks to the paid ''help'' from our short-sighted ''friends'' at the AMA .
Not certain that the subject here is which is superior . Is 72 MHz OK ? Yes , it is just fine. The AMA on the other hand is doing a very poor to negative numbers job of representing us if they are not continually working to maintain the 72 MHz allotment . As 2.4 fills up with the plethora of devices , even using spread spectrum , problems will appear and increase .
I fly on 50 MHz and will continue to do so, no thanks to the paid ''help'' from our short-sighted ''friends'' at the AMA .
I think the power limit on 50mhz is 1kw. Someone hundreds of miles from you could shoot you down if the atmospheric conditions are correct.
For your benefit, not many use 50mhz anymore.
The RC portion of the ham band is solely for RC use so the likelyhood of any interference from a 100MW or 1KW transmission is nearly nil . I still have the capture effect on my side . The congestion on 2.4 is real , growing and there are many 3W+ transmitters in common use on 2.4 . I'll be staying on 6 Meters for quite a while, been there for thirty plus years already .
The bottom line is that 72 MHz is still there for us to use .
07-23-2012, 09:51 AM
#95
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RE: 72 mhz still ok?
At a recent club meeting, we had a show of hands on how many people still have at least one plane on 72 mhz. More than 1/2 of the people raised thier hands. I was surprised. I flew 2.4 for the first time yesterday. I kept looking for that shiny metal antenna in front of me. I bought the module and 4 receivers. Only 8 more receivers and another module and I'll be changed over. So I'll be flying both for a while.
Jim
Jim
07-23-2012, 10:48 AM
#96
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RE: 72 mhz still ok?
ORIGINAL: aa1a
At a recent club meeting, we had a show of hands on how many people still have at least one plane on 72 mhz. More than 1/2 of the people raised thier hands. I was surprised. I flew 2.4 for the first time yesterday. I kept looking for that shiny metal antenna in front of me. I bought the module and 4 receivers. Only 8 more receivers and another module and I'll be changed over. So I'll be flying both for a while.
Jim
At a recent club meeting, we had a show of hands on how many people still have at least one plane on 72 mhz. More than 1/2 of the people raised thier hands. I was surprised. I flew 2.4 for the first time yesterday. I kept looking for that shiny metal antenna in front of me. I bought the module and 4 receivers. Only 8 more receivers and another module and I'll be changed over. So I'll be flying both for a while.
Jim
I still have a 9303 with a 72mhz Synthesizer module, but I have no need to use it.
72mhz still works here. From time to time one has to debug RF noise and change antenna routing. None of these types of problems affect our 2.4 radios.
Making sure our Rx batteries have suficient capacity and adjusting Rx placement in the aircraft is our only concern.
07-23-2012, 10:51 AM
#97
RE: 72 mhz still ok?
ORIGINAL: pilotpete2
Agreed on the 50Mhz ham band, but if the FCC can get money from licensing our old 72Mhz channels to commercial users, it will.
Pete
Agreed on the 50Mhz ham band, but if the FCC can get money from licensing our old 72Mhz channels to commercial users, it will.
Pete
All the more reason for our AMA to protect the frequencies we are presently assigned . Not to mention , the 2.4 ghz band is already under pressure from would be licensed operations seeking a segment .As unlicensed users, RCers are forced to accept interference from but generate no interference to licensed users . The short sightedness of our current AMA staff is shameful .
Anecdotes are quite limiting . I could cite many of the problems I have seen from both systems .As well as the inevitable blame the radio game .
Again , I am not boosting one over the other, just working to manitain what we have . The 72 mhz gear works extremely well and we should do whatever is needed to maintain the allotment we enjoy . Once 72 is lost and 2.4 becomes far more crowded ..and it will..spread spectrum won't be enough .
The hobby started with ham radio operators and could easily wind up there again if we are not careful.
07-23-2012, 02:40 PM
#98
RE: 72 mhz still ok?
I get the idea, that my 72 is still ok....yea, thats the message Im getting, keep on keepin on [8D]...thank you all for the input and awesomne amount of information on the new system!
