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  1. #51
    rmh's Avatar
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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    The advertising guys are in the same boat as the ad guys for gasoline
    Trying to sell the public on differences that even a chemist has trouble tracking
    Real world - the good ol FCC says "you can use this much power and and you cannot interfer with others ."
    So don't be surprised whan a superior system is really - the same -
    When it comes to how the signal is received - THEN the techies can really go to work-
    OR
    When it comes to added on features which have nothing to do with signal strength or interference free transmitting- each mfgr is free to do what they feel will sell best.
    The so called "cheaper" systems- were necessary to make a competitive tx/rx combo for the overwhelmingly popular small models
    As for range - bet you can't find a difference .
    Libby is still watching you

  2. #52

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    Agree.
    When you pick your radio system, you need consider what you will need in the next few years and what you can afford.
    The higher end radios use the FASST system, on the lower end you'll find more FHSS systems.
    For the average pilot the cheaper radio will do all he'll ever need.
    It comes down to how much functionality you want.

    Things like a larger model memory and ease of programming was the main reason I picked the 8FG over others.

    Nothing wrong with the FHSS, I believe you had to 'feed' them with a huge amount of 'foreign' signals to really see any problems.
    And this is simply not happening, even there are a bunch of active transmitters in the area.

    Maybe at a huge flying event with hundreds of active radios you will see some delays, who knows.

    I bet they already have some new system in the making, better, faster, prettier or whatever looks good in the ad.




  3. #53
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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    ORIGINAL: OliverJacob

    Agree.Things like a larger model memory and ease of programming was the main reason I picked the 8FG over others.
    Both the 8j and 8FG come standard with 20 model memory, and although the 8FG can be upgraded for model memory, 99.9% would never go over 20. And I believe they both program the same. The big factor for me was no antenna, $35 Futaba rx's, backlit screen, snap roll switch and the biggest was cost $239 for the 8J with 2 rx's.
    Ron - AMA 1025 - Largo, FL

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not

    completely sure about the former. - Albert Einstein

  4. #54

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    The only difference, I have figured out in operation, is the FASST runs a an error analyzer. If it starts getting bit degradation, it does some kind of fill in to complete the bit word. It should allow partial control longer before going lockout. It could translate to range. That is what your paying for; the question is do you need it. At a traditional RC field I doubt it; with 2.4 being a free for all but at low wattage, still makes rural not too bad an issue. If your flying field is in the center of town in a city park or someplace like LA or your a contest flyer, I would err on the conservative side, if I was flying something more than a .60 size plane. If your flying something expensive, why cheep out with any brand. I do think the transmitter antenna on the 6/8J is not as powerful, but it might not need to be. The bit on a FASST might be longer or some how more complicated that they want it to have the best chance of getting out, and not needed on the FHSS. One thing I do believe is, Futaba is not going to sell junk, even if your not a fan of the brand

  5. #55

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    When I bought mine, the 8J FHSS did not exist. I do have more then 20 models in the memory. The SDcard allows you to copy your models, in case your tx dies, you can take the card out and put it in another tx. Not a dealbreaker, but a nice feature.

    On the cheaper planes, I use off brand receivers, they cost around $30 and have never caused a problem in many flights.
    In the 'nicer' planes I have the Futabas.

    We can discuss our radios all day long, they all have their functions and options. I think the 8FG is a good deal and can compete with more expensive systems. I don't think the range or frequency hopping type is a problem on any 2.4 Ghz radio.





  6. #56
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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges


    ORIGINAL: TFF

    The only difference, I have figured out in operation, is the FASST runs a an error analyzer. If it starts getting bit degradation, it does some kind of fill in to complete the bit word. It should allow partial control longer before going lockout. It could translate to range. That is what your paying for; the question is do you need it. At a traditional RC field I doubt it; with 2.4 being a free for all but at low wattage, still makes rural not too bad an issue. If your flying field is in the center of town in a city park or someplace like LA or your a contest flyer, I would err on the conservative side, if I was flying something more than a .60 size plane. If your flying something expensive, why cheep out with any brand. I do think the transmitter antenna on the 6/8J is not as powerful, but it might not need to be. The bit on a FASST might be longer or some how more complicated that they want it to have the best chance of getting out, and not needed on the FHSS. One thing I do believe is, Futaba is not going to sell junk, even if your not a fan of the brand
    Your system is a good one - but it really doesn't save and fill in info-

    If a full range 2.4 sytsem has good power and proper antenna placement - it will do the job - The chip technology used today is all very good - No one can make chips in the backyard .
    Libby is still watching you

  7. #57

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    Dear, in our club, some members are still using 40 Mhz  & 72 Mhz radios and many are following 2.4 Ghz radios. as far as our opinion? we find out FASST is more reliable with twin antenna wires. one more issue in this discussion is interference of electricity( HIGH TENSION WIRES).
    If no high transmission lines are around the field, you will gain more better range.
    one more thing, low voltage ( both for radio & receiver ) is the main cause for range dropping. it is highly recommended to adjust the both receiver wires at 90 degree, 1st on ZERO than other on 90 degree, or both on 45 degree but opposite side, not at same direction.
    Fly often, Fly low but fly furious if 3D flying. Sky is our LIMIT.

  8. #58

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    So this is my first attempt,, so this is NOT right NOW ?
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    ** CUB BROTHERHOOD ** #90

  9. #59

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    Cougar,

    WHOA! Don't fly that aircraft!!! You need to change tour antenna installation!!!

    Look at you picture. The two antenna ends - the bare wires - are parallel to each other, not at 90 degrees (right angle). Take ones of the antennas and run it across the bottom of the fuselage left to right, or another option would be along the side of the fuselage front to back.

    Take another look at the pictures I posted for you showing several ways to achieve the 90 degree orientation between the two ends of the antennas. You will see that if one on the antenna bare wire ends is installed upright (oriented top to bottom) the other antenna end is installed horizontally, left-right or front-back.

  10. #60

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    Well that's why I am here to get the greatest expert advise,, I just need to read and look better now...
    Anyways , still need to place the tube, but this should work something like this right?
    such a tiny little cub and getting my fingers in there is something else [X(]


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    ** CUB BROTHERHOOD ** #90

  11. #61

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    BAM,, I think I got it.. thanks RFK ya saved me

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    ** CUB BROTHERHOOD ** #90

  12. #62

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    Cougar - you da man!

    RonK

  13. #63
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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    Yeah, I just use double sided tape to mount them down. I do use fuel tube to keep the antennae 90 degree angles right. No need for foam as the old system.

  14. #64

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    Different protocols - FASST, FASSTest, S-FHSS are a marketing strategy. They are all based on sub $1 chips. The details are of course propreitary and any discussion of the differences is based on what ? Marketing info ? Buy the cheapest radio that does what you want to do.

  15. #65

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    Futaba 8FG FASST (AZPT8FG-24G):

    EIRP

    P=16.77dBm=47.53mW


    Futaba T8J (AZPT8J-24G)

    EIRP

    P=13.24dBm=21.095mW



    Cheers

  16. #66

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    I wonder what the antenna output is for the FHSS module, that has the same antenna as the FASST one?

  17. #67
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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    As I mentioned in an earlier post, I bought the 8J a few months ago and have converted over 11 of my planes so far. I had read somewhere that the 8J tx power output was a little less than some of the others, but trusting Futaba, I pushed it to the limits right off the bat. Flying far out and low, never even a slight problem, always extremely well connected. I found that the rx antenna orientation is not that critical, although I do spread them out. Also another feature that I believe is unique to this tx, it that you can wirelessly transmit a stored program to another 8J tx, no plugs or cards.
    Ron - AMA 1025 - Largo, FL

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not

    completely sure about the former. - Albert Einstein

  18. #68
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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    Love my 8FG HS. Never had a failure with futaba in 20+ years. My plane feel like they are wires. Response is that quick even with slow servos.

  19. #69

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    1000m is pretty far. I would say the farthest I fly out is 500-600m, usually avoiding traffic, but I have rescued trainers that were close to 1000m. The small airport I work at has a 3800 ft runway and our hangar is about the 3000 ft mark give or take. Looking at the threshold at the other end is close to 1000m. I would say most flying is in the 200-300m or closer range.

  20. #70

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges


    ORIGINAL: Pippin

    Futaba 8FG FASST (AZPT8FG-24G):

    EIRP

    P=16.77dBm=47.53mW


    Futaba T8J (AZPT8J-24G)

    EIRP

    P=13.24dBm=21.095mW



    Cheers
    How does this translate to range? FASST and S-FHSS seem to be two different protocols. I understand AM protocol transmitters have about 100 mW. And so do the wireless LAN modems for home use.


  21. #71

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    FASST is just FHSS+. The radio part of the signal is just a radio; best antenna wins, most power wins. One radio seems to put it out better than the other at the 100mw requirement. What radio sends is the FHSS or FASST code; switch channel, transmit,switch channel, transmit. It is like super duper PCM.

  22. #72

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges


    ORIGINAL: TFF

    FASST is just FHSS+. The radio part of the signal is just a radio; best antenna wins, most power wins. One radio seems to put it out better than the other at the 100mw requirement. What radio sends is the FHSS or FASST code; switch channel, transmit,switch channel, transmit. It is like super duper PCM.
    I understand. I am just curious as to what exactly that power translates to. Is it 4 miles for FASST vs 2 miles for S-FHSS? or 2.5 miles vs 2 miles?

    I know it does not matter much for an average size glow plane that will fly no more than a 1000 ft radius in a club airfield. However, I am still curious.


  23. #73
    rmh's Avatar
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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    2 or 4 miles ?-
    you may in some instance get multi mile signalswhich work but that is not the intent of the systems so don't bet on it.
    Libby is still watching you

  24. #74

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges


    ORIGINAL: TFF

    FASST is just FHSS+.
    When you connect a Spectrum analyzer to a FASST system or when reading the FCC docs, you will see that FASST/FASSTest it’s a DSSS system with channel shifting capabilities (Hybrid system DSSS/FHSS)

    Doug.

  25. #75

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    RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

    Oh my !!! ... MY HEAD HURTS NOW [X(] kinda of interesting read tho
    Heck I am just getting my antenna's in the right direction now. LOL
    And my OTHER RADIO 8FG Super is on the way YaaHoo... best of all worlds!
    Hope it's FASST !

    ** CUB BROTHERHOOD ** #90


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