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FASST, FHSS Ranges

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Old 10-17-2012, 08:56 PM
  #1
Battle Short
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Default FASST, FHSS Ranges

After many years I am ready to get back into RC. I had some models when I was in my teens, but then life happend. Anyway I'm ready to get back into this cool hobby again.

I am trying to decide on a radio. I would like to get one that will last me for several years, and hopefully several models. I still have an old sailplane from my younger days, I believe it is a Gentle Lady. I intend to start with a trainer Nitro plane, but I do like sail planes and would like the radioi I get to have the best range possible.

After countless searches on the internet, the best info I have found comes from here but I am still not certain, so I will ask: Which Futaba radio has the longest, most reliable, range? I mean in a side by side comparison of several different scenarios, which would have the best range-FASST or FHSS? Please be specific of radio and reciever models, using the best combination possible for each. For transmitters I have in mind the 6EX and 6J, but am open to suggestions. To be clear: I rate range over features.

Thank you,
Glenn
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Old 10-18-2012, 04:29 AM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

I have always used Futaba 9C series and now for the past 3 years switched to a Futaba 10-CAG FASST. IMHO the FASST system is as close to ideal as I can get.

I personally do not know much about the FHSS other than it is Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum.

Today however, if I were to start over, I would probably buy a Futaba 8FG (FASST & software upgradeable) or a Futaba 8J (FHSS but not software upgradeable?)

Futaba 8J: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1643680

Futaba 8FG: http://www.futaba-rc.com/systems/futk8010.html

Welcome to the wonderful world of RC again.
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Old 10-18-2012, 06:05 AM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

Hello, I had a 4 channel and then a 6ex (great radio) . If you can afford the jump. I own a futaba 8fg HS. I have been back into RC for 6-7 years. I don't think I will have to buy another radio.....ever. I am building a top-flite B-25 with like 19 servos the 8fg will handle it. Several of the the older club members AND our younger hotshots are buying the 8fg. Stepping down from 9c's and 12c's.
For less than 500 bucks , I don't think you can beat it. I think futaba is still offering an extra rx with the purchase of the radio. ($79.00 value)
I love my 8FG HS. Have a great day


And May All Your Landings Be Smooooth....
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Old 10-18-2012, 06:38 AM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

to the range question, unless your model is seriously giant in scale, either system will have more radio range than you have visual range.
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:10 PM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

Looks like I'm off to a great start here, put my first post in the wrong forum-DOH! To the moderator, thanks for putting this where it belongs, I'll read the forum rules BEFORE posting in the future.

Thanks for the welcome GGraham and the responses everyone.

Quote:
to the range question, unless your model is seriously giant in scale, either system will have more radio range than you have visual range. 
Mongo, is this based on your personal experience?  What tx/rx combination were you using?


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Old 10-18-2012, 07:34 PM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

i use a TM14 module for the tx, a 12z, and have used 6-7-8-14 ch rx, all in the FASST line. have had folks slope soaring right with me using the 8j system and they have no problem either. i haven't noted any difference between a "native" 2.4 tx and the module based systems. at least with futaba.
with either system, the tx range isn't really different from 6-8 or 6-14 ch versions. just don't buy the cheepie park flyer rx and expect 2500 ft range out of em.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:05 PM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

That's exactly the type of information I'm looking for, Thank You!  

My concern was that the FHSS wouldn't have as much range as the FASST but it seems from your experience there is no real difference.

I'm leaning towards the 6J, it's about $50-60 less than the 6EX w/4 servos.  I'm sure 6 channels will be sufficient for me for at least a couple of years, by then I'll have a much better idea of what I want in a radio.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:24 AM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

Hi the radio that I would reccomend is the 8Fg it offers the best combination of features for the price is software upgradeable & can store thousands of models on it's Sd card ,the 6ex although releable has limited features & you would proberbly out grow it, The 8j is quite good for price & features but is not upgradeable & in theory the Rf link is not as robust as a Faast radio
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:55 AM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ddaveb
The 8j is quite good for price & features but is not upgradeable & in theory the Rf link is not as robust as a Faast radio
Can you provide the basis for this comment?
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:28 AM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

Hi Glenn,

It seems You are going to use a new radio for quite some time in the future. Altough a Futaba 8FG Super is more expensive then the Futaba radios You suggested Yourself the 8FG is the radio that should give You most value for the money. It is actually a 14 ch radio (12 proportinal channels and 2 on/off channels). It is a FASST radio so it is a fullrange radio, not the more budget oriented FHSS system. For best range use a Futaba receiver with dual antennas. 8FG Super is shipped today as standard with the receiver R6208SB http://www.gpdealera.com/cgi-bin/wga...pgm?I=FUTL7668
As You can see it has dual antennas that one have in the plane 90 degrees from each other to give best reception regardless of plane position in the air (horisontal, vertical and all between). The receiver is high voltage capable and that mean it will accept a 2 cell LiPo (7.4 volt) or two cell LiFe (6.6 volt) receiver battery if you perefer to use that. It has also S-bus channels if you prefer to use that. It has high speed mode on ch 1-6.
You can use for example FrSky FASST receivers if you want - Futaba receivers are little expensive.
8FG is also software upgradable so it can get more enhancements and fixes in future.
The only 8FG lackin my opinion is telemtry that is now rather popular and will enhance safety in some ways and will add some nice features also. We in Europe can buy Futaba external telemetry box and telemetry capable Futaba receiver now but they are not avaliable in US. That way existing FASST radios can be equipped with telemetry. Later Futaba will come with telemetry built in on more radios (only their high end radio 18MZ has it today).
I use 14MZ myself but if 8FG had been avaliable when I bought my 14MZ I would probably have got that instead.

/Bo
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Old 10-19-2012, 12:30 PM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

I don't know where this gets started, but the FHSS/S-FHSS radios are fully functional radios with excellent range. The R2008SB S-FHSS RX is a dual antenna diversity FULL RANGE receiver.

http://www.gpdealera.com/cgi-bin/wga...pgm?I=FUTL7606
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Old 10-19-2012, 02:04 PM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

But I'm sure Futaba has cut some corners on FHSS/S-FHSS compared to FASST otherwise they would not have choosen to have the former (starting in 2010) in their radios targeted more towards the beginner segment. FASST was already there since 2005 and is obviously more expensive system otherwise Futaba would have choosen that also in the budget line radios that got FHSS/S-FHSS instead.

Anyway, Glenn:

There is a new radio Futaba releasevery soon now: T14SG

http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/audis6ms/6935002.html

It has telemetry built in and use FASSTest.
As You can see it is similar design as 8FG and I can not see it in any other way that this is the "new" 8FG Super with FASSTest built in.
I think it may be little more expensive then 8FG Super but with telemetry built in already it is probably worth it.

Load the link above in Google translator from japanese to english tocan read some more about it.

Seems this new radio will perhaps obsolete 8FG Super in new sales when it is released? OK, maybe not all want telemetry and buy 8FG Super instead.

/Bo
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:19 PM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges


Quote:
ORIGINAL: bem

But I'm sure Futaba has cut some corners on FHSS/S-FHSS compared to FASST otherwise they would not have choosen to have the former (starting in 2010) in their radios targeted more towards the beginner segment. FASST was already there since 2005 and is obviously more expensive system otherwise Futaba would have choosen that also in the budget line radios that got FHSS/S-FHSS instead.
I think using the term "cut some corners" is a derogatory one. Certainly, Futaba has controlled costs, mostly be reducing the feature set (programming, memory, etc.) as well as the over all cost of building the transmitter (less expensive gimbals, etc.).
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:13 PM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

Silent-AV8R,
Sorry if You think I meant "cut some corner" in a negative meaning. That was not my intention.
There is probably some better or more neutral word(s).
/Bo
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:48 PM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

Thanks again for the responses.  The understanding I am getting from this thread and others I am reading is that both seem to have good range capability, the difference is in the quality (I don't think that is quite the correct word but I can't think of a better one) of the link.  FASST has everything FHSS does plus error correction.  I have been looking for the justification, at least on the two 6 channel radios I have been looking at, for the additional cost of the FASST system, especially when you take into consideration the fact it has less features when looking at the comparison chart on Futaba's own site.  Maybe the error correction is it.

BEM, I do appreciate the advice of the 8FG.  It is obvious you have done your homework on Futaba and are knowledgeable about their radios.  At this point I am still seriously considering the 6 channel radios.  Right now I am about to take the plunge and purchase a 40 size trainer.  I own nothing RC so have to purchase everything-radio, engine, kit, finishing supplies, field gear etc... It has not been easy to commit the $$, (not to mention convince my wife to do the same).  Also, I think that by the time I would be at a point where I would actually utilize the features offered by the 8FG that are not availble on the 6 channel the 8FG will either have come down in price or have been replaced (cost-wise) by something with even more features.  I could be wrong but that is a chance I'm willing to take.
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:10 PM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

acording to the discovery channel only 500 feet when they used the futaba stuff.. lol
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:22 AM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

Put any 2.4Ghz receiver inside of that big aluminum tube and see what your range is. There was no way they could have an external antenna for the receiver, so they taped it to the inside of a window.
Pete
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Old 10-26-2012, 05:46 AM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

Hey welcome back to the hobby. I just bought a 6 EX. I am quite happy with it, but there is one thing in particular I like about the 8J, it's upgradeable that'sa key feature for me. At any rate the recievers are a good deal more expensive than the extra recievers for the 6ex. The six ex is programable to fly six planes ansextra recievers are a lotcheaper, though I do see an 8j in my future. The 6ex will do for a good while I'd think.

Something you mentioned that I relate to is you have been out of the hobby for a while, me too for about 20 years. At anyrate you mentioned that you were going nitro, when I got back in I was going to also. But a friend of mine encouraged me to look into battery powerfor at least my trainerthat I am restarting with, I am really glad he did. I have decided because of the expense of the nitro now and the ease of recharging batteries at the field plus less power problems I am going battery for several of mine (3 planes) Everything with this hobby has changed so much.


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Old 10-27-2012, 09:35 PM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

Well I got a 6J FHSS system.  It looks like it will work for me, but only time will  tell.  I do agree the 8FG was tempting but it is also 2 1/2 times the $$$ which is hard for me to justify to myself at this point.

I went and met a gentleman that offered to teach me to fly today.  He brought a .40 size trainer but it was too windy.  He did fly the sport plane he brought, an electric.  We had a good visit, he did suggest electric and after seeing what I did today I have to agree that the hobby has changed a BUNCH in the (almost) 30 years I have been out of it.  I think I'm gonna be stubborn and still go with Nitro, I spent much of my youth with .049s and just can't bring myself to go electric.
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:03 PM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

all frequency hopping receivers have an error correction.
Futaba's FHSS/S-FHSS is built on commercially available chips while FASST and FASSTest are on proprietary chips. That's one area for the extra cost.
FHSS/S-FHSS is a narrow band frequency hopping system and FASST/FASSTest is broadband (relatively) so FASST/FASSest can transmit more data in a given time. This adds to the cost too but it allows more complex communications.

RapTaz, the 6J will serve you well for a long time. when you're ready for a more complex radio the 14SG will be waiting on the shelf at a LHS near you
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:49 AM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

I think the 6/8J will be a great radio for anyone; I dont think a user will ever know if flying in a reasonable manner. I do think the FASST are more powerful. Just looking at the antenna. I would prefer the built in of the Js but FASST all have external; there has to be a performance advantage somewhere. There was another one of these threads recently where a poster has the output at the antenna double with the FASST from the J even though they both have 100mw output. I also asked the question on the Futaba forum and their answer was full range with the indication that it was not as powerful for the J. I fly an original 9C; it is getting old. 8J, 7C, 8FG are all on the table for me, with what I fly I think I am getting 7C; as much as I like the idea of the 8FG it is not $200 more valuable to me; I know someone with a 18Z who barely can fly although the claims are high. I dont need the jewelry. It was really close between the 8J and the 7C.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:05 AM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

The 8FG is definately better value than the 7C. 
The 7C will only allow S.bus usage via the R6203SB receiver. Then you better have everything S.bus.
The 8Fg allows the use of every FASST Rx for airplanes. That alone is flexibility.

The programming functions in 8FG is very close to 12FG while 7C is nowhere near that.

Consider also that production of 7C has likely stopped (6EX is stopped and only stock is sell out and unites kept back for warranty supply), the 8FG will give you better long term investment

just my humble advice.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:47 AM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

I know of capabilities are much better in the 8FG. I did not like holding it. I know the 7C is old tech and do expect it to go away. I am not going to buy a 12 FG; a friend has one nice. Just dont need it. I would fly 72 forever, but I go to some scale contests.
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Old 10-29-2012, 03:56 AM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

I've been flying a long time and a few months ago needed to replace my Futaba Super 8, which served me very well for 15 years without fail. Having owned and or tried just about every other brand at some point, I decided to stay with Futaba. One of my main concerns was the cost of rx's - I keep 15 to 20 planes RTF and was not going to pay $70+ for each rx. The new 8J came along just at the right time and had everything I wanted and more, all the normal features and switches such as snap roll, 20 model memory, backlit screen, no antenna to break, looks and feels right and Futaba full range rx's for $35. Also was very happy to find I could buy the tx and rx for $239 from tower with $40 off coupon, and that came with an extra free rx. Bought it about 3 months ago and have converted over, tested and flown many flights on 11 of my planes. Feels very connected when flying, no problems whatsoever, I mainly fly larger glow and some electric. In my opinion, the 8J is the best value on the market.

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Old 11-10-2012, 04:16 AM
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Default RE: FASST, FHSS Ranges

Hi guys, I have a 9C that I am converting to FASST I also have a 7C I just picked up with 3 Rec. (like it ) simple !

I might be selling the 9C one day with all of it's modules and stuff (not sure what to ask for it)
it's in excellent condition. I also will be ordering a 8FG in the future. -ANYWAYS to my point.

I have a couple cubs 20 and 40 size, a 60 size GeeBee and a Sig Kougar., (all fuel) how the heck are you guys mounting these tiny little FASST Rec. ?

DO you have any photos or links? I have no clue on how I will mount them in the GeeBee yet with the body being so huge.

How are you attaching or making the small ants stay in one spot? tape?

Thanks for any help.

I also have not flown for around 5 years been way to busy but am going to get back into it now.


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