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  1. #176

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?


    ORIGINAL: TimBle

    turned around like a true disciple
    Your arse must be getting tender from all the fanboy chewing!
    Dick Tristao
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  2. #177
    SigMan's Avatar
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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?


    ORIGINAL: Fatam

    *I lost two planes in two weeks do to the lovely spektrum brownout. *Selling my dx8 and going to buy one of the 8 channel futabas. * I fly .40 and .60 size nitro planes. *The $200 for the price difference is huge. * I can't seem to find anything as far as reviews on the 8j. *Thanks guys!
    If you use the same battery, & switch, with your Futaba radio, you will most likely have problems too.
    What were you using with the DX8, as far as battery voltage, switch & cable size from switch to RX.
    Were you using digital servos, & what are the symptoms of your crashes, caused by an Illeged brown out.
    "Brown out" means, not enough voltage to feed your RX & servos.
    Were you using telemetry during your flights? If so what was the RX voltage?
    So instead of blameing the radio, maybe you should look at the reasons why.
    If you lost 2 planes in 2 weeks, did you try to find out what happened to the 1st one.
    Club Saito Member #1
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  3. #178

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?


    ORIGINAL: Dick T.


    ORIGINAL: TimBle


    turned around like a true disciple
    Your arse must be getting tender from all the fanboy chewing!
    LOL...

    Doug.

  4. #179

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?


    ORIGINAL: Dick T.


    ORIGINAL: TimBle

    turned around like a true disciple
    Your arse must be getting tender from all the fanboy chewing!

    they're not that big, my heels feel a sting now and again


  5. #180

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?


    ORIGINAL: SigMan


    ORIGINAL: Fatam

    I lost two planes in two weeks do to the lovely spektrum brownout. Selling my dx8 and going to buy one of the 8 channel futabas. I fly .40 and .60 size nitro planes. The $200 for the price difference is huge. I can't seem to find anything as far as reviews on the 8j. Thanks guys!
    If you use the same battery, & switch, with your Futaba radio, you will most likely have problems too.
    What were you using with the DX8, as far as battery voltage, switch & cable size from switch to RX.
    Were you using digital servos, & what are the symptoms of your crashes, caused by an Illeged brown out.
    "Brown out" means, not enough voltage to feed your RX & servos.
    Were you using telemetry during your flights? If so what was the RX voltage?
    So instead of blameing the radio, maybe you should look at the reasons why.
    If you lost 2 planes in 2 weeks, did you try to find out what happened to the 1st one.

    tisk tisk snigger snigger
    Spektrum, ...more questions than answers

  6. #181

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?


    ORIGINAL: Luchnia


    ORIGINAL: 804
    Since I bought a DX8 in 2010, I've read nearly every post RMH and Andy have made.
    How do you like the DX8? I went over to a field last week and I noticed several flyers with new DX8 radios. Some very impressive features and an attractive radio. I have not seen the Futaba 8 up close yet. One of the guys I fly with is strong Futaba man, but he flies with the higher end Futaba radios so I don't think he will be getting an 8 channel.

    For the most part people overbuy where radios are concerned. I do the same thing as I always have more radio than I could possibly ever need. I think over-buying just like over-powering is another fun part of the RC hobby.
    I like the DX8. Easy to program, and best fit for my hands of anything I've held out there.
    In the end, it's just a link to my aircraft. It works fine.
    I don't get all emotional about my radio like some of the zealots around here.

  7. #182

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?

    To SigMan:

    When the band is saturated, error occurs. The industry calls it "brownout" and cleverly blames it on the battery pack!
    It is too bad that we can not reboot a crashed model airplane.

  8. #183

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?


    ORIGINAL: Dave

    To SigMan:

    When the band is saturated, error occurs. The industry calls it ''brownout'' and cleverly blames it on the battery pack!
    It is too bad that we can not reboot a crashed model airplane.
    A "Brownout" is a drop in Rx voltage, below critical for a particular Rx, which results in the Rx rebooting. It can happen if the servos you are using draw too much current and cause a voltage drop, for example. It has nothing to do with a saturated band.

    There may be issues due to a saturated band, but "Brownout" is just an Rx power related thing. It can be minimized by using an Rx battery of 6v or better, or at least having an Rx battery with more than adequate capacity. I have been using 2500mah 2cell LiFe Rx packs with aircraft running 10 servos and never had a "Brownout".
    Rich
    byronf16@gmail.com

  9. #184
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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?


    ORIGINAL: Dave

    To SigMan:

    When the band is saturated, error occurs. The industry calls it ''brownout'' and cleverly blames it on the battery pack!
    It is too bad that we can not reboot a crashed model airplane.
    A "Brownout" is a drop in Rx voltage, below critical for a particular Rx, which results in the Rx rebooting. It can happen if the servos you are using draw too much current and cause a voltage drop, for example. It has nothing to do with a saturated band.
    Club Saito Member #1
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  10. #185
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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?

    The problems -over and over are often due to incorrect info -spread as gospel- such as "add a capacitor" or the completely erroneous explanations of brownout ( actually deep voltage depression.)

    The less people actually understand - the more positive they become about these problems being "receiver "related.
    Some actually see the cause>effect - others just rant .
    What else is new
    Libby is still watching you

  11. #186
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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?


    ORIGINAL: rmh

    The problems -over and over are often due to incorrect info -spread as gospel- such as "add a capacitor" or the completely erroneous explanations of brownout ( actually deep voltage depression.)

    The less people actually understand - the more positive they become about these problems being "receiver "related.
    Some actually see the cause>effect - others just rant .
    What else is new
    Interestingly enough.. I have deliberately tried to cause a brown out (in ground testing) Using a standard 4..8 NIMH pack that was almost flat... stalling a few digital servos and the little Spektrum RX's just kept trying...

    Even did the same thing in a plane with a cheap chinese ESC/BEC, ran it until the motor wouldn't even spin, stalled a few servos and no brown out...

    Tried this with Spek, Futaba and JR...

    I'll do some vids if I get motivated enough to try again... needless to say,I never worry about brownouts these days and have never had one in flight.. I always fly to a timer to never use more than 75% out of a full LiPo...

    The only brown out I could produce was when the NIMH pack was so flat it wouldn't even power a servo... If I let that happen in flight I deserve to crash IMHO..
    ..... frakkin cylons...

  12. #187

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?

    You are absolutely right!

  13. #188
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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?

    The voltage drop does not always happen as might be expected
    .
    Example:
    on a all electric model - the ESC is typically designed to stop the motor before the BEC will cease to operate properly
    Th little Bind n Fly using the 6400 type brick esc/rx servo combos typically operate very well in this respect.
    The motor slows to a stop and you still can land under full control
    Larger all electrics can be killed by overloading the motor -the ESC and the BEC goes at the same time - heat being the culprit
    This type failure is the one which confuses those who simply don't know the limits of motor load, ESC load and the BEC parameters .
    All ESC and BEC are NOT the same-even with same ratings .
    Using a discrete rx battery is an altogether different thing
    - Battery C rating being of real importance here - Some believe a five cell pack cures any issue - Nope.
    All batts drop voltage more easily as remainder of capacity decreases - All of em .
    voltage drop due to severe depression becomes easier the closer the battery reaches minimum output (goes dead).
    Using volt and amp meters this slippery slope can all be easily demonstrated .
    Libby is still watching you

  14. #189

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?

    I had a couple of odd failures last year.  One was total loss of control and due to presets, thrust from the motor.
    The other was more puzzling, with initially the same symptoms, followed by recovery of aileron controls only.
    Fortunately, both models were recovered with minor damage.  Both had been flown previously the same day without problems, and the batteries replaced with fully charged 4C 3300mah lipos before the flight.
    When everything tested OK, including range checks  after the problems, I elected to replace the ESC internal BECs with external ones, capable of twice the rated current.  The problems did not re-occur.

    Next, new P-51 model with electric retracts.  The retracts were tested before installation, and two different sets behaved more or less the same way.

    The gear would stall, retract and not extend, or get out of sync. This was using a servo tester, 4C NiCds, 4CNMIH,  and 4AA cells. The 4C NiCds were rated at 2000mah, and the NIMH at 2400mah.
    Further investigation showed that the retracts drew peak current as a brass rod "T" attached to the motor lead screw was trying and failing to go over a sharp "hump" in the slots cut into the side plates. The stall lasted long enough to trigger the current trip circuitry in the retract control boards.  Of note was the battery voltage drop due to the current drawn, and the amount of current, which could exceed ~1 1/2 A for each gear mechanism.  The advertised current draw in the gear specs was 900ma. For some reason, the peak current required for gear extension was higher than retraction.
      
    Some rework was done as an experiment, and the peak draw was lowered considerably. However it was still high enough to cause stalling when less than fully charged battery packs were used. Further the battery pack output voltages dropped enough momentarily to cause an AR600 X receiver indicator LED to blink. (~3.5v)
    Research into the battery packs, based upon Sanyo cells disclosed that 2A was about the maximum current draw for a fully charged cell, and might result in an undesirable voltage drop to below 4V.

    Because of this, and more recent experience with a new bad servo (drawing up to 1 1/2 A), I elected to use a separate 6A,  6v  BEC to power the retracts.  I also changed brands of ESCs to one that provides 5-6A from the internal BEC. 

    Another prudent practice - -
    Set up the servo and linkage such that a control surface is not driven by the servo to  a mechanical stop.
    Next, set up servo travel on the TX so that the servo end of travel is before the servo's mechanical stops.
    This should help limit the maximum servo current draw be it analog or digital.


  15. #190

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?

    i use futaba radios have been using them for years never had a problem you dont need a satalite reciever with this equipment i have a 10cag 2.4 and a 8fg super very pleased with both of them.

  16. #191

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?


    ORIGINAL: Rob2160


    ORIGINAL: rmh

    The problems -over and over are often due to incorrect info -spread as gospel- such as "add a capacitor" or the completely erroneous explanations of brownout ( actually deep voltage depression.)

    The less people actually understand - the more positive they become about these problems being "receiver "related.
    Some actually see the cause>effect - others just rant .
    What else is new
    Interestingly enough.. I have deliberately tried to cause a brown out (in ground testing) Using a standard 4..8 NIMH pack that was almost flat... stalling a few digital servos and the little Spektrum RX's just kept trying...

    Even did the same thing in a plane with a cheap chinese ESC/BEC, ran it until the motor wouldn't even spin, stalled a few servos and no brown out...

    Tried this with Spek, Futaba and JR...

    I'll do some vids if I get motivated enough to try again... needless to say,I never worry about brownouts these days and have never had one in flight.. I always fly to a timer to never use more than 75% out of a full LiPo...

    The only brown out I could produce was when the NIMH pack was so flat it wouldn't even power a servo... If I let that happen in flight I deserve to crash IMHO..

    Exactly Rob, it is VERY difficult to re-create a voltage depression so deep that it shuts the Receiver down. I've tried the same with a couple of pals Spektrum systems and haven't been able to recreate the problem. Yet they still suffer the occasional unbind. Often it hapens on the ground but if it happens in the air .... well we know what that outcome is going to be.
    Yet they still fly those Rx and its brought them all closer to their favourite deity.

    By observation I reject the battery theory that is preached.



  17. #192
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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?

    Timble - your conclusion is simply folly - You delude yourself into what you feel is a problem -with no real evidence you understand how power problems occur or manifest themselves.
    The post prior to yours describes typical problems and good practice in resolving them .
    it isn't a binding problem when power issues cause failure .
    If you think this testing is difficult - you simply need more actual experience .
    Libby is still watching you

  18. #193

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?


    ORIGINAL: TimBle


    ORIGINAL: Rob2160


    ORIGINAL: rmh

    The problems -over and over are often due to incorrect info -spread as gospel- such as ''add a capacitor'' or the completely erroneous explanations of brownout ( actually deep voltage depression.)

    The less people actually understand - the more positive they become about these problems being ''receiver ''related.
    Some actually see the cause>effect - others just rant .
    What else is new
    Interestingly enough.. I have deliberately tried to cause a brown out (in ground testing)* Using a standard 4..8 NIMH pack that was almost flat... stalling a few digital servos and the little Spektrum RX's just kept trying...

    Even did the same thing in a plane with a cheap chinese ESC/BEC, ran it until the motor wouldn't even spin, stalled a few servos and no brown out...

    Tried this with Spek, Futaba and JR...

    I'll do some vids if I get motivated enough to try again... needless to say,*I never worry about brownouts these days and have never had one in flight.. I always fly to a timer to never use more than 75% out of a full LiPo...

    The only brown out I could produce was when the NIMH pack was so flat it wouldn't even power a servo...** If I let that happen in flight I deserve to crash IMHO..

    Exactly Rob, it is VERY difficult to re-create a voltage depression so deep that it shuts the Receiver down. I've tried the same with a couple of pals Spektrum systems and haven't been able to recreate the problem. Yet they still suffer the occasional unbind. Often it hapens on the ground but if it happens in the air .... well we know what that outcome is going to be.
    Yet they still fly those Rx and its brought them all closer to their favourite deity.

    By observation I reject the battery theory that is preached.


    There is no such thing as an "UnBind". A receiver that is Bound to a transmitter will only require a ReBind if the transmitter is inadvertently placed in the Bind mode, by the user, and the receiver is not in the Bind mode.
    Rich
    byronf16@gmail.com

  19. #194
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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?

    I don't think the guy knows the difference - simply not enough experience to figure it out.
    But -he appears to be happy
    Libby is still watching you

  20. #195

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?

    I had a brownout issue with my DX8, the ESC in the T-34 got warm after thethirdflight and the RX lost power. It recovered and I was able to land. I checked the RX when it was down, and sure enough the little blinky light said, brownout.
    BTW stalling a servo on the ground, and what happens in the air can be two different things. No airflow on the ground pushingagainstthe servo, while in the air, you get much more force pushing against the servo which will cause a higher draw, so you will get a a higher voltage drop in the air than on the ground.
    SIG Brotherhood # 3
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  21. #196

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?


    ORIGINAL: BuschBarber


    ORIGINAL: TimBle


    ORIGINAL: Rob2160


    ORIGINAL: rmh

    The problems -over and over are often due to incorrect info -spread as gospel- such as ''add a capacitor'' or the completely erroneous explanations of brownout ( actually deep voltage depression.)

    The less people actually understand - the more positive they become about these problems being ''receiver ''related.
    Some actually see the cause>effect - others just rant .
    What else is new
    Interestingly enough.. I have deliberately tried to cause a brown out (in ground testing) Using a standard 4..8 NIMH pack that was almost flat... stalling a few digital servos and the little Spektrum RX's just kept trying...

    Even did the same thing in a plane with a cheap chinese ESC/BEC, ran it until the motor wouldn't even spin, stalled a few servos and no brown out...

    Tried this with Spek, Futaba and JR...

    I'll do some vids if I get motivated enough to try again... needless to say,I never worry about brownouts these days and have never had one in flight.. I always fly to a timer to never use more than 75% out of a full LiPo...

    The only brown out I could produce was when the NIMH pack was so flat it wouldn't even power a servo... If I let that happen in flight I deserve to crash IMHO..

    Exactly Rob, it is VERY difficult to re-create a voltage depression so deep that it shuts the Receiver down. I've tried the same with a couple of pals Spektrum systems and haven't been able to recreate the problem. Yet they still suffer the occasional unbind. Often it hapens on the ground but if it happens in the air .... well we know what that outcome is going to be.
    Yet they still fly those Rx and its brought them all closer to their favourite deity.

    By observation I reject the battery theory that is preached.


    There is no such thing as an "UnBind". A receiver that is Bound to a transmitter will only require a ReBind if the transmitter is inadvertently placed in the Bind mode, by the user, and the receiver is not in the Bind mode.


    Hmmm, so what is the technical term for n event awhen a plane with a Spek Rx in it is showing a solid Red and responds to the controls on the ground, and then the controsl deflect to full and jitter, No more control and the Rx LED flashes?


  22. #197

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?


    ORIGINAL: TimBle


    ORIGINAL: BuschBarber


    ORIGINAL: TimBle


    ORIGINAL: Rob2160


    ORIGINAL: rmh

    The problems -over and over are often due to incorrect info -spread as gospel- such as ''add a capacitor'' or the completely erroneous explanations of brownout ( actually deep voltage depression.)

    The less people actually understand - the more positive they become about these problems being ''receiver ''related.
    Some actually see the cause>effect - others just rant .
    What else is new
    Interestingly enough.. I have deliberately tried to cause a brown out (in ground testing)* Using a standard 4..8 NIMH pack that was almost flat... stalling a few digital servos and the little Spektrum RX's just kept trying...

    Even did the same thing in a plane with a cheap chinese ESC/BEC, ran it until the motor wouldn't even spin, stalled a few servos and no brown out...

    Tried this with Spek, Futaba and JR...

    I'll do some vids if I get motivated enough to try again... needless to say,*I never worry about brownouts these days and have never had one in flight.. I always fly to a timer to never use more than 75% out of a full LiPo...

    The only brown out I could produce was when the NIMH pack was so flat it wouldn't even power a servo...** If I let that happen in flight I deserve to crash IMHO..

    Exactly Rob, it is VERY difficult to re-create a voltage depression so deep that it shuts the Receiver down. I've tried the same with a couple of pals Spektrum systems and haven't been able to recreate the problem. Yet they still suffer the occasional unbind. Often it hapens on the ground but if it happens in the air .... well we know what that outcome is going to be.
    Yet they still fly those Rx and its brought them all closer to their favourite deity.

    By observation I reject the battery theory that is preached.


    There is no such thing as an ''UnBind''. A receiver that is Bound to a transmitter will only require a ReBind if the transmitter is inadvertently placed in the Bind mode, by the user, and the receiver is not in the Bind mode.


    Hmmm, so what is the technical term for n event awhen a plane with a Spek Rx in it is showing a solid Red and responds to the controls on the ground, and then the controsl deflect to full and jitter, No more control and the Rx LED flashes?

    It has nothing to do with a loss of the Bind. Depending upon the model receiver, a blinking light could indicate a Brownout or a Hold. Check the wiring for an intermittent short.
    Rich
    byronf16@gmail.com

  23. #198
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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?

    THe full deflect -has always been a power issue - at least in all the power tests I have done
    typically an overload caused by something overheating or just plain old sucking voltage down past minimums

    Signal blocking - never produced that effect.
    Libby is still watching you

  24. #199

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?


    ORIGINAL: TimBle


    ORIGINAL: BuschBarber


    ORIGINAL: TimBle


    ORIGINAL: Rob2160


    ORIGINAL: rmh

    The problems -over and over are often due to incorrect info -spread as gospel- such as ''add a capacitor'' or the completely erroneous explanations of brownout ( actually deep voltage depression.)

    The less people actually understand - the more positive they become about these problems being ''receiver ''related.
    Some actually see the cause>effect - others just rant .
    What else is new
    Interestingly enough.. I have deliberately tried to cause a brown out (in ground testing)* Using a standard 4..8 NIMH pack that was almost flat... stalling a few digital servos and the little Spektrum RX's just kept trying...

    Even did the same thing in a plane with a cheap chinese ESC/BEC, ran it until the motor wouldn't even spin, stalled a few servos and no brown out...

    Tried this with Spek, Futaba and JR...

    I'll do some vids if I get motivated enough to try again... needless to say,*I never worry about brownouts these days and have never had one in flight.. I always fly to a timer to never use more than 75% out of a full LiPo...

    The only brown out I could produce was when the NIMH pack was so flat it wouldn't even power a servo...** If I let that happen in flight I deserve to crash IMHO..

    Exactly Rob, it is VERY difficult to re-create a voltage depression so deep that it shuts the Receiver down. I've tried the same with a couple of pals Spektrum systems and haven't been able to recreate the problem. Yet they still suffer the occasional unbind. Often it hapens on the ground but if it happens in the air .... well we know what that outcome is going to be.
    Yet they still fly those Rx and its brought them all closer to their favourite deity.

    By observation I reject the battery theory that is preached.


    There is no such thing as an ''UnBind''. A receiver that is Bound to a transmitter will only require a ReBind if the transmitter is inadvertently placed in the Bind mode, by the user, and the receiver is not in the Bind mode.


    Hmmm, so what is the technical term for n event awhen a plane with a Spek Rx in it is showing a solid Red and responds to the controls on the ground, and then the controsl deflect to full and jitter, No more control and the Rx LED flashes?

    SPM Rxs dont show solid "Red" led.Except possibly the few that use a red led to indicate RPM sensor operation.Some Rxs do in fact have a Red led but it means something completely different than what the Orange led indicates.If you dont understand how a system works its probably not a good idea to speculate or make assumptions.Its only going to confuse and convolute the entire discussion.
    The system you use works very well.The system I use works very well.They have some distinct differences and require a different approach to a few aspects of their respective operations.The continuous bickering over one being better than the other is pointless and serves no useful purpose IMO.Its kind of like arguing over who has a bigger ***is.Ive found that when the mine is bigger than yours argument continually creeps into every other discussion that it generally indicates some sort of insecurity issue.

  25. #200

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    RE: Dx8 to futaba?


    .Its kind of like arguing over who has a bigger ***is.Ive found that when the mine is bigger than yours argument continually creeps into every other discussion that it generally indicates some sort of insecurity issue.

    LOL- you don't know how many times I've wanted to post "Mine's bigger" in some of these threads....

    No matter where you go, there you are!


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