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New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

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Old 12-23-2012, 08:25 AM
  #1
RCFlyerGuy
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Default New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

Okay, so I'm getting beck into the hobby since having gotten away from it in the late 80's!!

I have 4 Futaba radios, all FM, so based upon what I read, resurrecting them is not a wise choice. Sucks because a couple were purchased and never even taken out of the box yet! (One 7 channel and the rest 6 channels).

I want to choose wisely with the new technology, but after spending lots of time reading posts here my head is still spinning faster than a prop at WOT on a dive! I get the "Ford" versus "Chevy" versus "Mopar" arguement between transmitter brands, but my cash is going to the system that gives me the best and "safest" bang for the buck, not just the one that picks my pocket for a bunch of useless high-end features I'll never use.

(Sorry import owners - A 4-cyl with a Fart-Can muffler does not a Hot Rod make!

If it don't have a V-8 (or a V-12), GO AWAY!

BTW, V-10's sound like crappy lawn mowers: so they just don't belong in vehicles! Shame on you Mopar - The Viper could have been a contender if you just added two more cylinders!) I just couldn't resist!

Anyway, Yes, I'm basically a Futaba fan, but I'm open to suggestions. Moreso than brand loyalty I just want to get a better understanding of where the technology has gone, and a better understanding of all the alphabet soup (FAAST, etc.), so I can make an informed and therefore intellegent choice.

HELP! [&:]

Okay, let the games begin![:@]
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:48 AM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: RCFlyerGuy

Okay, so I'm getting beck into the hobby since having gotten away from it in the late 80's!!

I have 4 Futaba radios, all FM, so based upon what I read, resurrecting them is not a wise choice. Sucks because a couple were purchased and never even taken out of the box yet! (One 7 channel and the rest 6 channels).

I want to choose wisely with the new technology, but after spending lots of time reading posts here my head is still spinning faster than a prop at WOT on a dive! I get the ''Ford'' versus ''Chevy'' versus ''Mopar'' arguement between transmitter brands, but my cash is going to the system that gives me the best and ''safest'' bang for the buck, not just the one that picks my pocket for a bunch of useless high-end features I'll never use.

(Sorry import owners - A 4-cyl with a Fart-Can muffler does not a Hot Rod make!

If it don't have a V-8 (or a V-12), GO AWAY!

BTW, V-10's sound like crappy lawn mowers: so they just don't belong in vehicles! Shame on you Mopar - The Viper could have been a contender if you just added two more cylinders!) I just couldn't resist!

Anyway, Yes, I'm basically a Futaba fan, but I'm open to suggestions. Moreso than brand loyalty I just want to get a better understanding of where the technology has gone, and a better understanding of all the alphabet soup (FAAST, etc.), so I can make an informed and therefore intellegent choice.

HELP! [&:]

Okay, let the games begin![:@]
I have flown Futaba AM, FM/PPM, PCM for many years. If your Tx's are 1991 Gold Stickered they are still usable. The Rx's need to be Narrow Band.

I moved to JR when the 9303 first came out. It had 9 proportional channels compared to my Futaba 9CAP which had 8 proportional channels and one channel that was an On/Off switch. The 9303 is modular, like the 9CAP, but when I first bought the Spektrum 2.4 module, the 9CAP was only 8ch while the 9303 was 9ch.

JR has been using the Spektrum 2.4 technology (DSM2/DSMX) until this year when JR introduced their XG line of radios which used JR's own DMSS.

I think you will find that all of the major brands have comparable 2.4 products. Hitec, JR, Spektrum, Futaba, Airtronics, Jetti, Multiplex,etc. There are also 3rd party 2.4 modules for existing modular radios.

As a former Futaba user, the Hitec Aurora 9 is modular and there is a Hitec 72Mhz Synthesized module that is compatible with Futaba FM/PPM receivers, so you could continue to use your Futaba FM/PPM receivers but not Futaba PCM receivers.

Myself and my fellow RC club members have been using JR/Spektrum 2.4 for the past 5 years without issue. They have a vast line of receivers available and every Spektrum compatible transmitter will work with every Spektrum compatible receiver. There are also many Bind and Fly (BNF) aircraft from Horizon that work with any Spektrum compatible receiver.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:51 AM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

It is easy to be misled when selecting new tx /rx in 2.4.
First- what size type models REALLY interest you - for now, forget about some off the wall B36 project -unless you like to build off the wall B36 models
Which of the 2.4 radios offer the most features for the buck?
Does that interest you ? If not - why bother asking?
Here are typical features available
Cost
Number of channels
Programming capabilities
Exclusive features are also important
Spektrum (the first of the air systems) really took advantage of the 2.4 system and offer Bind n Fly which many aftermarket suppliers now copy rx, model, tx modules etc..
This feature alone is extremely popular as it resulted in extremely widespread availability of compatible parts desired- some very very cheaply.
The rest of the market offer specialized tx/rx well suited for specific markets.
All of it works ( nice!)
If you want to be the only guy on your block with the MOST expensive OR least expensive tx /rx - you can it- -and- they both work. tho not the same
Be prepared to do some boning up on how 2.4 systems really work- basics only are fine.
the BS from guys who crassh everthing they touch can be found readily on various forms -
just ignore this stuff - it is as ill thought out as the Toyota sticking throttle horror stories.






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Old 12-23-2012, 09:32 AM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

RCFlierGuy...

I am in approx. the same boat as you. Although I have not stopped flying, just slowed down. If you read this post I just typed out it MIGHT shed some light on the subject. I hope this is allowed.

http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/s...t=79091&page=3

Good luck with your decision.

EDIT: Looks like this is not allowed. So I will cut n paste...

Quote:
I have been flying 72 Mhz GS for years with out a radio hitch on my 9C's. Its all in the setup. I see at my clubs field complacent fliers "masking" setup issues with 2.4. I usually say something about the setup & I get the old "2.4 will take care of that". I walk away shaking my head...

I remember when 2.4 came out & alot of people hopped on this new technology. There were GS planes augering in left & right at the fly in that I attended. (not many peeps were flying GS at my clubs field). Although the issues that plagued the first run of 2.4 APPEARS to be under control, the memory of what I have seen has prevented me (up until now) to not even consider 2.4, at any price point.

With that said My trusty 9C is on the fritz & I am hunting another TX. I really hate to spend the $ on another 72 Mhz radio so I am looking at 2.4 hard for the first time.

You want my uneducated take on 2.4? Glad you asked...

Just like 72, all the manufacturers are blowing smoke up the arse of the consumer touting their PROPRIETARY channel hopping technology is the bees knees. No such thing as using a Futaba TX with a Hitec RX. Its a sad time in Hooville on this subject. It makes for less choices for our particular install.

What is a guy to do with 5 GS planes on 72 & no reliable TX to fly them? If I was smart I would buy the cheapest 2,4 radio from the MFG. of my choice (prob. Futaba) and wring out the "new" technology on my smallest plane. That probably will not happen though. I do not need 2 TX laying around, when one will do.

I am leaning to the 8FG or the 14SGA or a radio in that price point. There are several just from Futaba. Let alone the other MFG's. For now I will stay with Futaba. I am a realist. I do not need to be on the outer edge of the envelope with the 12/14/18MZ series. And quite frankly neither do 98% of the ppl who buy them. Just my opinion though. And for the record bling don't fly a plane...

I wish there was some place, either print or online, that would tell it like it is with the products they review. Last good publication was RC Report & we know what happened there. I see no one today in print or online that is testing / comparing / reviewing / talking about the hobby's new products & telling us (the consumer) how it REALLY is. I am left cruising forums taking / digesting / chuckling advise and making my own semi-informed deduction of said product. Dangerous, and sometimes expensive, indeed.

In closing thanks for letting me rant. I really feel better. But my wallet wont after spending $ for another TX and more than that to replace 72Mhz RX's in my planes. Oh don't get me started on the cheap 2.4 RX's from HK & others. Are they as good or better than the overpriced big 4? How about servos? That is another rant altogether...

Stay warm my friends...

Stan
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:01 AM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

Looks like you saw setups which were done incorrectly -with no one understanding the correct use of the new technology.
I had the first one around here and saw some of the same issues - but this was all quickly put to bed
Spektrum is not exclusive here but is easily dominant
ask why?
the advent of the Bind nFly - HUGE advantage Face it - it is very popular.
cheap aftermarket rx ( again , a very popular point.)
Retrofitting older models?
If you just replace the rx you could be in deep doo doo
most of the old batt technology simply won't work - those old 1C cell just fade awy as capacity is depleted
voltage drop under load IS the issue- if you don't understand this - and don't want to learn - stay with 72
But you will be missing out on huge improvements now available .
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:55 AM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

RMH...

I agree that the battery is probably one of the most important pieces to our systems. So many fliers (72/2.4 systems) are flying with what one can call sub-standard batteries for the plane they are in.

I tend to go overboard in this area. I have built my packs from the start. I also use A123's in all my planes, 'cept my small ones that demand LiPo's.

An update to my quandary about purchasing a 2.4 radio...

Just bought a 14SGA(includes a R7008SB RX) from Tower (BO until Jan.) 599-80=$519 Merry x-mas to me...

A good value? It will be if I do not have any radio related crashes!

Good day to all & seasons greeting while were at it.
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Old 12-23-2012, 12:01 PM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

Buy name brand in a 7-8 channel and you will be fine. If your just going to be flying 60 sport planes for right now. Get some new batterys for the best old radio you have and go have some fun.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

Ya know, you can still use those transmitters. Several guys in the club are still on 72mhz. My ATI B-17 is still 72mhz.
Edwin
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:44 AM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

RCFlyerGuy - I would be absolutely tickled to take all that "old" radio technology off your hands and make a $50 contribution to your new radio. Just PM me and I'll send you my address!
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:01 AM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

Some of the guys have stayed with the older radios they just need to stick with the old pin out procedures. In fact one of the bonuses of staying some say is that there are no crowded frequencies any more.

If you flew without any problems before you should not have any now.

Some clubs have gone to 2.4 only most have not if the club you intend to join does not have a restriction on the older radios by all means use them and spend some time talking to the guys at the field to see what radios are in use. Sometimes it is good to have the same common equipment when you need something explained.

If you do use your older stuff do yourself a favor and pitch the batteries and replace with new. I don't care how they test or appear to charge it’s not worth the aggravation of a sudden failure because they are old.

Try and invest as little as possible but do join and observe for yourself which equipment you might like to have.

Dennis
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:58 PM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

Just stick with what you know, Futaba has been In the 2.4GHz business 15 years before it came to the RC world.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:04 PM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

Spektrum brought 2.4 to the RC community, well before Futaba took 2.4 for RC seriously.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:08 PM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

I wasn't aware they were into industrial RC like Futaba has been.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:16 PM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: GAToland

I wasn't aware they were into industrial RC like Futaba has been.
I am not talking Industrial RC. Futaba, Hitec, JR, Airtronics, Spektrum, etc., all have come out with comparable products for the RC hobbyist. I am just stating a fact that Spektrum introduced the 2.4 radio to our hobby, first.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:21 PM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

I understand , but I just Simply stated that Futaba had previous history with 2.4 because of the Industrial RC side of things. 15 years prior to their release of 2.4 for the hobby side of it.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:30 PM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

I agree that Futaba has been involved in the development of Industrial 2.4 technology.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:34 AM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

Favorites are favorites - -
When it comes to who has really utilized 2.4 for the most users - it's a easy call.
Futaba does now have 2.4 equipment which does work.
feature wise - I must admit -i haven't figured out WTH their marketing people are searching for .
I wouldn't buy one at this point in time simply because they sem to be off target in supplying equipment most buyers like and use.
The aftermarket people appear to be concentrating on developing bits n pieces which utilize the Spektrum protocol ( DSM2 DSMX).
They know where the market trend is directed.
This doesn't mean the other brands don't work
They do -
This market is constantly changing
Personally, my top three brand choices no longer includes Futaba .
Others just are hitting the market more accurately.

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Old 01-01-2013, 09:48 AM
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OH yawn here we go again a pi$$ing contest of whose radio is better, get a life. If any one radio were so much better than the others why would we have so many on the market? Buy what you figure suits your needs, style of flying and comfort level. The rest of the posturing is bullsh$t.

Just to throw some sticks on the fire. Dec RC SportFlyer had an article where they did range testing all with the same 6 volt receiver battery.

JRXG11/RG1131B DMSS 2.25 miles
SpektrumDX18/AR9020 3.95 miles
Futaba 18MZ/R7008SB 4 miles
Jeti DC16/Duplex R9 4.7
Hitec Aurora 9/Optima 9 6.3+

The JR used one satellite the Spectrum used 2 all had 2 antennas.

Prices from Horizon Hobby web site

JRXG11 $850 Additional receiver RG1131B DMSS $184
SpektrumDX18 $800 Additional receiver AR9020 $150
Hitec Aurora 9 $450 Additional receiver Optima 9 $100

Prices from Esprit

Jeti DC16 $1100 Additional receiver Duplex R9 $90

So all this test indicates is that all of these radios will meet or beat the range at which we fly. Not many can or want to fly their models 2 miles away. A few really big gliders searching out thermals or the odd FPV might but most flying is done quite a bit closer.

I have watched guys at the field you know the ones who always can afford the biggest bad ***** radio of the day yet fly models that require no more than six or seven channels with little or no mixing. They spend half their time at the field trying to figure out which button or switch they threw that has now screwed their setup for one of the two models they own the other being a trainer.

After you consider your priorities as far as the functionality and program features you will really use then consider the comfort and feel of the unit. Hold one in your hands. Would you feel comfortable flying this for extended periods of time? Depending on how you hold your transmitter are all of the switches, knobs and sliders easy to reach and use?

One of the most important considerations is that you have complete confidence in the manufacturer. If you have always been a Futaba flyer then you may want to stick to that brand. I know die hard Airtronics guys who are completely satisfied sticking with their radio of choice even though it is not considered a mainstream radio at our club. Who cares?

Another important consideration is the cost of the initial investment and that of additional receivers as your fleet grows.

Dennis
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:48 AM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

Your BS is duly noted
as well as the "test" from RCSportFlyer
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:04 PM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

Sorry rmh the post was not directed at you very sorry for that I did not see in reply to rmh in the bottom corner. I have no idea how that happens I just meant to make a post in general. If anyone knows how I can edit it let me know and I will correct it. Again very sorry there rmh meant no disrespect in fact I think if you read the two posts we agree more than disagree.

Dennis Pratt
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:07 PM
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Test
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:08 PM
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Test
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:09 PM
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:17 PM
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HMMMM apparently it does not mater how you post at least on my browser it always will put a name “In reply to”. I tried all three Post Reply buttons and every one did the same. I guess you cannot post a general comment it always has to be as a reply to someone. Kind of odd as it treats every post as a direct reply to another member when in fact it may be a general post to all members of a forum.

Anyone know how one can make a general post without it having to be a reply to a specific person?

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Old 01-01-2013, 12:40 PM
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Default RE: New Radio Technology ????? HELP!

"OH yawn here we go again a pi$$ing contest of whose radio is better, get a life. If any one radio were so much better than the others why would we have so many on the market? Buy what you figure suits your needs, style of flying and comfort level. The rest of the posturing is bullsh$t. "


Sounds like is was being directed towards someone or a group of people, That's why instead of coming to a place like this I did my own research/homework, because every response is biased, what one radio will work for someone will not work for someone else, so all anyone can do is offer advice as to the radio they use. The OP has been using Futaba prior to coming back into the hobby, I merely stated a fact about Futaba having prior experience in 2.4 technology. Did they have problems when they introduced their first 2.4 system? from what I have read, Absolutely. As did other brands. Even Airtronics has been around for quite some time. Just up to the individual to do their own research and make a decision.
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