Futuba getting "left behind"
03-09-2015, 09:44 PM
#51
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Over the decades, I've seen plenty of airplanes falling from the sky when various companies were "innovating" new designs! During those times I was glad to be a slow adopter of technology change while still enjoying reliability.
Trend for Futaba ...... yes, perhaps. Same thing happened with digital servos some years ago. While JR was playing the "digital servo of the month" game with rapid development and changing internals, Futaba had yet to introduce any digital servos. But when they did, they were reliable. So I guess innovation is good to a point but not just for innovation's sake. You still have to remain competitive though and not be too far behind the cutting edge designs .... if that is the trend you speak of which would be being a follower rather than a leader. I never enjoyed being an unwilling beta tester though when I was an early adopter.
Trend for Futaba ...... yes, perhaps. Same thing happened with digital servos some years ago. While JR was playing the "digital servo of the month" game with rapid development and changing internals, Futaba had yet to introduce any digital servos. But when they did, they were reliable. So I guess innovation is good to a point but not just for innovation's sake. You still have to remain competitive though and not be too far behind the cutting edge designs .... if that is the trend you speak of which would be being a follower rather than a leader. I never enjoyed being an unwilling beta tester though when I was an early adopter.
03-10-2015, 06:23 AM
#52
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But Andy we were all thinking you should choose Futaba!
I guess, to repeat myself somewhat... instead of complaining this is where I feel you "vote" with your money. I'm not committed to any one system, so if I fly my Cap with my Taranis and my B-17 with my Futaba, I'm ok with that....
I said before I had changed my mind on the 18MZ... went back through and looked at everyone else's offerings... to attempt to avoid that brand war previously mentioned I'll leave out my comments out, but I looked at Jeti, Weatronics, Spektrum, JR, Airtronics, FrSky and FlySky.....
Ultimately I decided that for just over $800,I get a significant number of features that I currently don't have by going with a new Stealth DX18. So I went to my LHS and had them put in an order for me last Sunday... should be here next month. Happy Andy?
Why?
wireless trainer, 7 point curves, flight conditions, full telemetry sensor selection, full receiver range selection, my buddy has the gen2 dx18 and the hardware seems to be very nice quality in terms of build...I loved the gimbals ( Andy you promised on RCG the Stealth comes with the same gimbals.. you'd better be right! ) ... I think the biggest thing for me was the complete line of supporting accessories already available, the receivers and sensors...........
If Futaba comes out with that for the 14SG I will get them, if they come out with the T18SZ with a full line I may likely get that as I have been a Futaba user since the early 90's when I was 8 years old... but ONLY IF they have a full line of products... I'm not big on the clones...
@049flyer:
You are absolutely right, it is fine sport level equipment. It does way more than your pricewise comparable 7C, RDS8000, or DX6. We have 4 Taranis at our field of ~60 or so members. 3 of us fly fairly often with ours, the other guy sits there and fiddles with it... struggles to get it setup, even with our help... For that one guy I'd argue he would have been probably better served with a 7C or something similar, even though it can do less, he'd be flying more. I told Wayne about a year ago that I felt FrSky's biggest issue was they made the easy stuff hard in order to make the hard stuff possible. Servo reversing for example isn't true/false or yes/no... it is setup a mix for the servo, edit the mix and set the weight of the mix to -100 as opposed to the default weight of 100. That isn't easy to learn if you are 10 years old or a 65 year old who still hen pecks at his computer.
03-10-2015, 06:31 AM
#53
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Not a brand war. Just an example of what one of the more innovative manufacturers are offering. Like other technology endeavors it's often the small young "start ups" that are the ones to raise the bar while the larger traditional manufacturers are slow to change and end up playing "catch up". It wasn't that long ago when Spektrum changed the RC world with 2.4 ghz and once again Futaba played "catch up".
Anyone see a trend developing on the Futaba R&D side?
There was a time when Futaba was the innovator.
Anyone see a trend developing on the Futaba R&D side?
There was a time when Futaba was the innovator.
03-10-2015, 06:32 AM
#54
My Feedback: (2)
Over the decades, I've seen plenty of airplanes falling from the sky when various companies were "innovating" new designs! During those times I was glad to be a slow adopter of technology change while still enjoying reliability.
Trend for Futaba ...... yes, perhaps. Same thing happened with digital servos some years ago. While JR was playing the "digital servo of the month" game with rapid development and changing internals, Futaba had yet to introduce any digital servos. But when they did, they were reliable. So I guess innovation is good to a point but not just for innovation's sake. You still have to remain competitive though and not be too far behind the cutting edge designs .... if that is the trend you speak of which would be being a follower rather than a leader. I never enjoyed being an unwilling beta tester though when I was an early adopter.
Trend for Futaba ...... yes, perhaps. Same thing happened with digital servos some years ago. While JR was playing the "digital servo of the month" game with rapid development and changing internals, Futaba had yet to introduce any digital servos. But when they did, they were reliable. So I guess innovation is good to a point but not just for innovation's sake. You still have to remain competitive though and not be too far behind the cutting edge designs .... if that is the trend you speak of which would be being a follower rather than a leader. I never enjoyed being an unwilling beta tester though when I was an early adopter.
It has never been serviced... never needed it.... still works as well as it did day 1.
03-10-2015, 07:57 AM
#56
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I've been a faithful Futaba owner for over 35+ years without any problems or complaints. So have several of my flying buddies. On the other hand, the guys I know and others that vist our local hobby store complain on a regular basis about all the problems and unexplained crashes they have with Spektrum!!
03-10-2015, 08:20 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
i have 14 futaba radios on 72... no trouble where i go.. i keep at least 15 futaba servos just in case ill be 83 this may so will stand by my futabas
03-10-2015, 08:44 AM
#59
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I like in the Taranis how all servo adjustments (sub trim, end points & reverse etc) are done on one screen - that it actually easier and more intuitive than going to multiple different screens for the same adjustments in the 14SG.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld5D1CBzhI0 I understand why some people think the Taranis is too complicated - for sure its a different way of thinking than most other radios - but after using one for several months and becoming very familiar with it I can set up a new model faster in the Taranis than with any other radio I own (Spektrum, JR and Futaba)
Last edited by Rob2160; 03-10-2015 at 09:09 AM.
03-10-2015, 10:03 AM
#62
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03-10-2015, 10:52 AM
#63
What makes the Taranis difficult for some to understand is that there are often multiple ways to accomplish the same task, like servo reversing.
You COULD do it the HARD way that requires multiple steps as Mattnew describes OR you could just go to the Servos screen, cursor to the right pointing arrow and select it to reverse the direction of the arrow and your servo. Pretty simple.
As I have said before, the normal stuff is easy to program. But if you want to mix the throttle with the elevator but only when the flaps are down and throw in a bit of right rudder at the same time, AND give yourself a voice warning that all this is taking place, the Taranis will do it! BUT it will take a bit of digging into the programming nitty gritty.
Here is a link to one of the Taranis manuals: http://www.open-tx.org/2013/08/22/op...sky-manual-en/
Here is a link to one of the Taranis dealers: http://www.alofthobbies.com/
Here is a link to the Taranis parts page: http://www.alofthobbies.com/radio-ge...nis-parts.html
It's important to remember what you DON'T get with TARANIS; You won't get a fancy box with a logo, any sort of useful manual packed in the box (but available for download) , advertising campaigns, sponsored pilots, factory customer support (it is supported by dealers), or sales promotions like "buy one receiver get one at 1/2 price". The company has instead decided to offer modelers that don't need those things an opportunity to buy an unusually capable system at a price normally associated with far less capable systems from traditional manufacturers.
You COULD do it the HARD way that requires multiple steps as Mattnew describes OR you could just go to the Servos screen, cursor to the right pointing arrow and select it to reverse the direction of the arrow and your servo. Pretty simple.
As I have said before, the normal stuff is easy to program. But if you want to mix the throttle with the elevator but only when the flaps are down and throw in a bit of right rudder at the same time, AND give yourself a voice warning that all this is taking place, the Taranis will do it! BUT it will take a bit of digging into the programming nitty gritty.
Here is a link to one of the Taranis manuals: http://www.open-tx.org/2013/08/22/op...sky-manual-en/
Here is a link to one of the Taranis dealers: http://www.alofthobbies.com/
Here is a link to the Taranis parts page: http://www.alofthobbies.com/radio-ge...nis-parts.html
It's important to remember what you DON'T get with TARANIS; You won't get a fancy box with a logo, any sort of useful manual packed in the box (but available for download) , advertising campaigns, sponsored pilots, factory customer support (it is supported by dealers), or sales promotions like "buy one receiver get one at 1/2 price". The company has instead decided to offer modelers that don't need those things an opportunity to buy an unusually capable system at a price normally associated with far less capable systems from traditional manufacturers.
Last edited by 049flyer; 03-10-2015 at 10:56 AM.
03-10-2015, 12:04 PM
#64
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What makes the Taranis difficult for some to understand is that there are often multiple ways to accomplish the same task, like servo reversing.
You COULD do it the HARD way that requires multiple steps as Mattnew describes OR you could just go to the Servos screen, cursor to the right pointing arrow and select it to reverse the direction of the arrow and your servo. Pretty simple.
As I have said before, the normal stuff is easy to program. But if you want to mix the throttle with the elevator but only when the flaps are down and throw in a bit of right rudder at the same time, AND give yourself a voice warning that all this is taking place, the Taranis will do it! BUT it will take a bit of digging into the programming nitty gritty.
Here is a link to one of the Taranis manuals: http://www.open-tx.org/2013/08/22/op...sky-manual-en/
Here is a link to one of the Taranis dealers: http://www.alofthobbies.com/
Here is a link to the Taranis parts page: http://www.alofthobbies.com/radio-ge...nis-parts.html
It's important to remember what you DON'T get with TARANIS; You won't get a fancy box with a logo, any sort of useful manual packed in the box (but available for download) , advertising campaigns, sponsored pilots, factory customer support (it is supported by dealers), or sales promotions like "buy one receiver get one at 1/2 price". The company has instead decided to offer modelers that don't need those things an opportunity to buy an unusually capable system at a price normally associated with far less capable systems from traditional manufacturers.
You COULD do it the HARD way that requires multiple steps as Mattnew describes OR you could just go to the Servos screen, cursor to the right pointing arrow and select it to reverse the direction of the arrow and your servo. Pretty simple.
As I have said before, the normal stuff is easy to program. But if you want to mix the throttle with the elevator but only when the flaps are down and throw in a bit of right rudder at the same time, AND give yourself a voice warning that all this is taking place, the Taranis will do it! BUT it will take a bit of digging into the programming nitty gritty.
Here is a link to one of the Taranis manuals: http://www.open-tx.org/2013/08/22/op...sky-manual-en/
Here is a link to one of the Taranis dealers: http://www.alofthobbies.com/
Here is a link to the Taranis parts page: http://www.alofthobbies.com/radio-ge...nis-parts.html
It's important to remember what you DON'T get with TARANIS; You won't get a fancy box with a logo, any sort of useful manual packed in the box (but available for download) , advertising campaigns, sponsored pilots, factory customer support (it is supported by dealers), or sales promotions like "buy one receiver get one at 1/2 price". The company has instead decided to offer modelers that don't need those things an opportunity to buy an unusually capable system at a price normally associated with far less capable systems from traditional manufacturers.
)I had also downloaded several tutorials from Youtube (Scott Page).
It was much easier to program a simple model than I expected and within 2 days I was comfortable with the basic concepts.
When you realise that no switch, lever, knob or gimbal does anything until you assign it a channel things are pretty straightforward.
049flyer is right, there are many ways to achieve the same thing with the Taranis, with use the easiest way becomes quickly apparent.
And it has the power to add virtually anything you can think off. EG in these videos it has custom and conditional logic functions for voice alerts. I'm sure this can be achieved in other radios but most of them cost more than $200.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcBJUKF7Vio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up-uCWnqXs4
Last edited by Rob2160; 03-10-2015 at 07:01 PM.
03-10-2015, 12:05 PM
#65
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I have a FrSky Taranis and it does anything one can imagine. The Taranis is stupid easy to program for most airplanes when using the wizard built into the radio OS or the wizard that is included with the computer side programming software that runs on Windows or Macintosh computers and is free to download and use even if you don't have the Taranis. It is a transmitter simulator and programmer so that you can try out any setting or programming feature before sending it to the transmitter.
The shear power of this radio is the fact that anything can be programmed to do anything. This power is available to those that want to get into the nitty gritty of setting it up. This part of the programming is easier done on the Taranis transmitter simulator software and can be much more involved, but not necessary for 90% of us as the wizard handles most routine tasks.
The real power however is the fact that the Transmitter software is OPEN SOURCE and runs on a variety of platforms which means that you can take your programming and settings from one radio to the next when you upgrade or even if you change between radio manufacturers.
The features of this radio are incredible, reliability is at least as good as any other mainstream radio and ALL parts are readily available, from switches to gimbals, screens and circuit boards. Best of all, receivers are 1/2 the price of the top brands and airborne telemetry modules are about $20 each. Telemetry for the airborne receiver battery voltage is built in to the system and doesn't require a module. Voice announcements for any transmitter setting, value from telemetry sensors or warnings are built in and can be easily changed, modified or customized.
Perhaps the most interesting feature is the fact that the radio has an empty and unused slot for a transmitter module on the back cover. It's purpose is to allow the use of a Futaba or Spektrum module if you wish to use their systems, i.e. Bind N Fly. The interesting thing is that the radio can transmit via the module or the built in FrSky transmitter or BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. This gives you a total of 16 channels and incredible redundancy. Think 1/2 of your plane is a Spektrum system and the other is FrSky. Two different signals from two different RF modules to two different receivers.
If you really want to know if Futaba IS OR IS NOT stuck in the RC stone age then you would be wise to spend $200 and give the Taranis a try. Even if you don't like it they usually sell for almost full price on the used market so you risk very little.
The shear power of this radio is the fact that anything can be programmed to do anything. This power is available to those that want to get into the nitty gritty of setting it up. This part of the programming is easier done on the Taranis transmitter simulator software and can be much more involved, but not necessary for 90% of us as the wizard handles most routine tasks.
The real power however is the fact that the Transmitter software is OPEN SOURCE and runs on a variety of platforms which means that you can take your programming and settings from one radio to the next when you upgrade or even if you change between radio manufacturers.
The features of this radio are incredible, reliability is at least as good as any other mainstream radio and ALL parts are readily available, from switches to gimbals, screens and circuit boards. Best of all, receivers are 1/2 the price of the top brands and airborne telemetry modules are about $20 each. Telemetry for the airborne receiver battery voltage is built in to the system and doesn't require a module. Voice announcements for any transmitter setting, value from telemetry sensors or warnings are built in and can be easily changed, modified or customized.
Perhaps the most interesting feature is the fact that the radio has an empty and unused slot for a transmitter module on the back cover. It's purpose is to allow the use of a Futaba or Spektrum module if you wish to use their systems, i.e. Bind N Fly. The interesting thing is that the radio can transmit via the module or the built in FrSky transmitter or BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. This gives you a total of 16 channels and incredible redundancy. Think 1/2 of your plane is a Spektrum system and the other is FrSky. Two different signals from two different RF modules to two different receivers.
If you really want to know if Futaba IS OR IS NOT stuck in the RC stone age then you would be wise to spend $200 and give the Taranis a try. Even if you don't like it they usually sell for almost full price on the used market so you risk very little.
03-10-2015, 12:41 PM
#66
Toolmaker:
The Taranis is much easier to learn when you start with the computer side simulator. If your computer is not able to run the simulator it will be a bit more difficult to learn and impossible to upgrade the tranmitter OS. The simulator/programming software has a wizard that asks you questions about your model and based on your answers sets the radio up for you (most settings for common aircraft types).
The latest version of the transmitter OS also has the wizard built in. The transmitter itself will ask you a series of questions about your model and then adjust the settings for you. However, if you can't run the software on your pc you won't be able to upgrade the OS so that you will have the wizard on the transmitter. The older transmitter OS may not have had the wizard.
If you still have the radio you may be able to locate someone nearby to help you. The Taranis message board on RCGroups is VERY active with thousands of posts. I feel certain you could find help there if you wanted to continue with it. If you could at least get your pc to work with the software and talk to the transmitter I'm sure you would have more success. The simulator is brilliant as is the wizard.
The good news for anyone that doesn't like the Taranis for what ever reason, is that they often go for nearly new prices on the used market so you should be able to get most of your money back.
The Taranis is much easier to learn when you start with the computer side simulator. If your computer is not able to run the simulator it will be a bit more difficult to learn and impossible to upgrade the tranmitter OS. The simulator/programming software has a wizard that asks you questions about your model and based on your answers sets the radio up for you (most settings for common aircraft types).
The latest version of the transmitter OS also has the wizard built in. The transmitter itself will ask you a series of questions about your model and then adjust the settings for you. However, if you can't run the software on your pc you won't be able to upgrade the OS so that you will have the wizard on the transmitter. The older transmitter OS may not have had the wizard.
If you still have the radio you may be able to locate someone nearby to help you. The Taranis message board on RCGroups is VERY active with thousands of posts. I feel certain you could find help there if you wanted to continue with it. If you could at least get your pc to work with the software and talk to the transmitter I'm sure you would have more success. The simulator is brilliant as is the wizard.
The good news for anyone that doesn't like the Taranis for what ever reason, is that they often go for nearly new prices on the used market so you should be able to get most of your money back.
Last edited by 049flyer; 03-10-2015 at 12:54 PM.
03-10-2015, 12:42 PM
#67
Toolmaker
One other thing, if you purchased the radio from Aloft Hobbies I'm sure they will be happy to help you get everything working. If you didn't buy from them, support may be more difficult and probably available only from message boards, youtube or from fellow Taranis owners.
One other thing, if you purchased the radio from Aloft Hobbies I'm sure they will be happy to help you get everything working. If you didn't buy from them, support may be more difficult and probably available only from message boards, youtube or from fellow Taranis owners.
Last edited by 049flyer; 03-10-2015 at 12:51 PM.
03-10-2015, 01:24 PM
#68
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My issue with Taranis and similar radios is that they are not a company that has something to lose, they are simply a label which can fold up and blow away at the drop of a hat. JR, Spektrum, Futaba, Hitec, etc. have skin in the game by way of the reputation and financial health of the company.
03-10-2015, 02:04 PM
#69
p
My issue with Taranis and similar radios is that they are not a company that has something to lose, they are simply a label which can fold up and blow away at the drop of a hat. JR, Spektrum, Futaba, Hitec, etc. have skin in the game by way of the reputation and financial health of the company.
Very good point. I too would be very careful about whom I purchased a radio from, especially if that radio cost $1000 or more. But a $200 radio? Not so much. One could look at it as supporting an upstart with game changing features at game changing prices.
If you want more of something, support it!
My issue with Taranis and similar radios is that they are not a company that has something to lose, they are simply a label which can fold up and blow away at the drop of a hat. JR, Spektrum, Futaba, Hitec, etc. have skin in the game by way of the reputation and financial health of the company.
If you want more of something, support it!
03-10-2015, 03:01 PM
#70
My Feedback: (3)
I was a Futaba customer since the early 70's
Have had over a dozen different transmitters from them over that time.
I was all set to buy an 18MZ, but decided to go with a Jeti DC-16 instead.
Definitely made the right decision. The pace of development, customer response and available telemetry modules and integrated accessories all with telemetry is without equal.
I am going to buy their new DC-24 as soon as it comes out this fall.
Have had over a dozen different transmitters from them over that time.
I was all set to buy an 18MZ, but decided to go with a Jeti DC-16 instead.
Definitely made the right decision. The pace of development, customer response and available telemetry modules and integrated accessories all with telemetry is without equal.
I am going to buy their new DC-24 as soon as it comes out this fall.
03-10-2015, 04:00 PM
#71
My Feedback: (2)
p
Very good point. I too would be very careful about whom I purchased a radio from, especially if that radio cost $1000 or more. But a $200 radio? Not so much. One could look at it as supporting an upstart with game changing features at game changing prices.
If you want more of something, support it!
Very good point. I too would be very careful about whom I purchased a radio from, especially if that radio cost $1000 or more. But a $200 radio? Not so much. One could look at it as supporting an upstart with game changing features at game changing prices.
If you want more of something, support it!
03-10-2015, 04:48 PM
#72
My Feedback: (2)
I was a Futaba customer since the early 70's
Have had over a dozen different transmitters from them over that time.
I was all set to buy an 18MZ, but decided to go with a Jeti DC-16 instead.
Definitely made the right decision. The pace of development, customer response and available telemetry modules and integrated accessories all with telemetry is without equal.
I am going to buy their new DC-24 as soon as it comes out this fall.
Have had over a dozen different transmitters from them over that time.
I was all set to buy an 18MZ, but decided to go with a Jeti DC-16 instead.
Definitely made the right decision. The pace of development, customer response and available telemetry modules and integrated accessories all with telemetry is without equal.
I am going to buy their new DC-24 as soon as it comes out this fall.
Mendon MA? you going to anything local in the near future? Would love to meet up and see a dc-16 in person....
03-10-2015, 07:23 PM
#73
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My issue with Taranis and similar radios is that they are not a company that has something to lose, they are simply a label which can fold up and blow away at the drop of a hat. JR, Spektrum, Futaba, Hitec, etc. have skin in the game by way of the reputation and financial health of the company.
At the time Kraft was the choice of champions and owning one at our club was like a status symbol.. where is Kraft now?
I do agree with your point though and that is why I didn't rush into the Taranis either but they have been around for over two years now and the support via Open TX only keeps getting better.
This survey was done 8 months ago.
The Taranis thread on RCG has over 40,000 posts and 3.5 million views.
Last edited by Rob2160; 03-10-2015 at 07:50 PM.
03-10-2015, 08:35 PM
#74
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Futaba is most definitely being left behind. Their 'slow and steady' approach (If that's what it is?) is loosing them market share as proof by the poll above. They lost me while they were dragging their feet on 2.4ghz. My favorite radio to this day was my 9C Super. But I got tired of waiting for Futaba to produce a 2.4 module and went with the Sektrum module for my 9C. The rest is an all too familiar story; once invested in a dozen Spektrum rx's the the writing was already on the wall.
After 4 or 5 years of trouble free flying, my 9C is now a memory and I'm fully vested in Spektrum equipment. It's sad really... for them not me.
Eric
After 4 or 5 years of trouble free flying, my 9C is now a memory and I'm fully vested in Spektrum equipment. It's sad really... for them not me.
Eric
Last edited by edh13; 03-10-2015 at 08:38 PM.
03-11-2015, 01:03 AM
#75
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I am quite happy with my Futaba 14sg, I only had to pay for it once, quality wise I know I can trust it, and use it without something falling off in my hands. Ive had Futaba and a mix of other other Radios. I would say the only thing I thought was missing realy was flight modes. Seen to many problems with economy radios systems to buy one. I would rather miss out on a telemetry feature or 2 or a flight mode than have my money fall out of the sky due to a radio problem..I have never had to rebind a Futaba Receiver unless it was to a new transmitter, I have seen other modellers have to rebind receivers for other brands several times in one day, and that was after they have been flown. I dissagree with anyone who says its cheap so try it and its only $200.00 because that $200 radio may be the cause of a model becomming a free flight model mid flight, and 9 out of 10 times that does not end well. You can pick any transmitter or radio gear and someone somewhere will not like something with it, fly with something you can trust...Thats what I do.