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Specktrum radios; why did you crash? Why did you have a "brown-out?"

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Specktrum radios; why did you crash? Why did you have a "brown-out?"

Old 09-22-2015, 04:01 PM
  #451  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
WOW ...
Guess U really like IMAC (Watching Paint Dry). But everyone to their Own. I've never paid that much for a CAR. Always drove used or wife's old ones. 150,000 miles Or more. Highest I ever paid is $6100 for my Dodge Van cause it was 8 years old had 68K and Sto'N'Go. Seats went down the day I bought it 2 years ago and haven't seen the light of day since. Guess I'm Just "CHEEP". Back to planes I enjoy flying 80" to 96" War Birds. But that's what's so good about this hobby. Fly what ya like and Like what ya can afford.


l Check the bottom.
l
l
V
guess you just want to fly the big birds !!! I carry my planes in a new ford van e350 15 passenger took out the seats don't need them , and I enjoy IMAC you should try it , if you can fly good enough only 10 manuvers , will make a lot better pilot out of anyone , but everyone does not enjoy competition but I do!!! warbirds are expensive too my friend has a P51 with a 200cc engine 9000 dollars in her and IMAC planes are very expensive we have them from 4000 to 13000 dollars , they are not as expensive as the jets saw a bob violet jet with twin turbines he had 30000 dollars in the plane

Last edited by jmiles1941; 09-22-2015 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 09-22-2015, 04:50 PM
  #452  
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Originally Posted by Jack_K
Mind sharing what the components are and how to use them?
Jack
NOT AT ALL: YOU CAN USE ANY MODEL SPEKTRUM TRANSMITTER AND DO NOT USE A SPEKTRUM RECEIVER IF YOU INTEND ON GETTING THE POWER FOR YOUR SERVOS THRU THE RECEIVER. THE ORANGE RECEIVERS AND THE JR RECEIVERS ARE VERY COMPATIBLE AND DID WELL IN OUR TESTS.

I USED TWO 3-D AIRCRAFT FOR THE TESTS...ONE HAD SIX SPEKTRUM DIGITAL SERVOS AND THE OTHER USED HI-TEK 645MG

TO KEEP IT SIMPLE, I USED NIMH 5CELL 6VOLT BATTERY PACKS. ALL WERE BRAND NEW WITH 98% CHARGE ON 6V TESTING.

(I DID NOT USE MY LIFE A-123 WITH 6.6V AND DID NOT REQUIRE A REGULATOR) KISS...

THIS IS CALLED A "FUNCTIONAL" TEST...YOU EITHER "PASS" OR "FAIL" EXTREMELY SIMPLE.

I WAS PREPARED TO FABRICATE A 12 SERVO RACK FOR STANDARD SIZE SERVOS WITH 1" SERVO ARMS THAT I COULD CONTROL AND MEASURE THE OZ-IN TORQUE READINGS. MY FIRST TEST CLEARLY SHOWED I DID NOT NEED TO ADD THAT TO THE EQUATION

WE CHOSE THREE RECEIVERS THAT ARE COMPATIBLE WITH SPEKTRUM TRANSMITTERS...FIRST WAS SPEKTRUM, SECOND WAS JR AND THIRD WAS HOBBY KING ORANGE THAT I NEVER CONSIDERED FOR EVEN A SMALL GAS AIRPLANE.

THE AIRCRAFT AND THE TEST HAD ONLY ONE VARIABLE...THAT WAS THE RECEIVERS.

THE FIRST ONE WE TESTED WAS WITH MY DX-8 TRANSMITTER AND A BRAND NEW AR-8000 RECEIVER.
THE RECEIVER WOULD BROWN OUT EACH TIME I USED THREE SERVOS SIMULTANEOUSLY. ( TWO ON ELEVATORS AND ONE ON RUDDER.

WE THEN EXCHANGED THE RECEIVER WITH A AR-7000 BRAND NEW, AND IT DID EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE AR-8000.

NEXT, WE EXCHANGED THAT RECEIVER AND REPLACED IT WITH THE ORANGE 7 CHANNEL FOR $17.00 I EXPECTED THE SAME RESULTS SINCE THIS AIRCRAFT HAD SPEKTRUM DIGITAL SERVOS. HOWEVER, WE WERE PLEASANTLY SURPRISED...NO MATTER WHAT WE DID WITH ALL SIX SERVOS IT REFUSED TO BROWN OUT ..IT PASSED THE TEST
.
WE SWITCHED TO THE AIRCRAFT WITH THE HI-TEK 645MG SERVOS AND PUT THE AR-700 IN IT...98% CHARGE ON THE BATTERY AND NO LOAD ON THE SERVOS. MY SPEKTRUM WORKED PERFECTLY JUST LIKE THE ORANGE.

WE TOOK THE TEST AIRCRAFT TO THE FIELD, DID OUR RANGE CHECK AND ALL WAS GOOD. WENT THROUGH TH MOVEMENTS FOR KNIFE EDGE, FOUR POINTE ROLL AND SNAP ROLL...EVERYTHING WAS GOOD.

ADDED POWER SLOWLY AND TOOK OFF, MADE A GENTLE BANK WHILE APPLYING FULL POWER AND THEN IT HAPPENED, NO CONTROL. LOST THE AIRCRAFT...BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD. CONCLUSION WAS PILOT ERROR...DID NOT TEST SERVOS UNDER LOAD.

THE FIRST AIRCRAFT WILL BE FLOWN TOMORROW WITH THE ORANGE RECEIVER AND DIGITAL SERVOS. ADDED LOAD AND IT STILL LOOKS GOOD.

THAT IS MY WORK-AROUND UNTIL SPEKTRUM CHANGES THEIR FIRMWARE TO HANDLE THE VOLTAGE AND AMPS ALONG WITH A NEW CIRCUIT BOARD WITH THICKER CIRCUITS TO HANDLE THE LOAD.

LET ME CLOSE BY SAYING THIS: I CAN USE MY SPEKTRUM TRANSMITTERS AND ALL MY SPECKTRUM RECEIVERS AND SET THEM UP TO FLY ANY SIZE PLANE I CHOOSE...SO CAN MOST OF YOU. HOWEVER, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DO THIS ON MEDIUM SIZE AIRCRAFT. IF YOU FLY FOAMIES AND SMALL NITRO S UP TO 120 SIZE YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE A PROBLEM. FUTABA, JR AND TARANUS HAVE NO PROBLEMS. ON YOUR BIG STUFF USE SMART FLY...RED UP TO 30cc / YELLOW UP TO 50cc / AND BLACK UP TO AND BEYOND 220cc. POWER BUSES CAN BE PURCHASED FOR $17.95 AND WORK GREAT TO ISOLATE YOUR RECEIVER POWER...

ALL SMART FLY SYSTEMS KEEP YOUR BATTERY AT 5VOLTS...LIFE BATTERY'S ARE THE STANDARD. @ 6.6VOLTS.

HOPE THIS HELPS. GOOD LUCK AND FLY SAFE. SAFETY IS NUMBER ONE.


THANK YOU GENTLEMEN FOR YOUR INTELLIGENT QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS. THE OTHER 5% CAN KEEP POSTING INSULTS.

I WILL NO LONGER BE POSTING...JUST WATCHING WHAT HAPPENS. GOOD NIGHT AND GOD BLESS...

I INTEND ON PRODUCING AROUND TWENTY VIDEOS AS SOON AS MY PROFESSIONAL STUDIO EQUIPMENT ARRIVES. YOU DESERVE THE BEST. THE POSTS WILL BE ON MY UTUBE SITE. I WILL LET EVERYONE KNOW WHEN AND WHERE TO LOOK.
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Old 09-22-2015, 04:57 PM
  #453  
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Originally Posted by topgun winner
not at all: You can use any model spektrum transmitter and do not use a spektrum receiver if you intend on getting the power for your servos thru the receiver. The orange receivers and the jr receivers are very compatible and did well in our tests.

I used two 3-d aircraft for the tests...one had six spektrum digital servos and the other used hi-tek 645mg

to keep it simple, i used nimh 5cell 6volt battery packs. All were brand new with 98% charge on 6v testing.

(i did not use my life a-123 with 6.6v and did not require a regulator) kiss...

This is called a "functional" test...you either "pass" or "fail" extremely simple.

I was prepared to fabricate a 12 servo rack for standard size servos with 1" servo arms that i could control and measure the oz-in torque readings. My first test clearly showed i did not need to add that to the equation

we chose three receivers that are compatible with spektrum transmitters...first was spektrum, second was jr and third was hobby king orange that i never considered for even a small gas airplane.

The aircraft and the test had only one variable...that was the receivers.

The first one we tested was with my dx-8 transmitter and a brand new ar-8000 receiver.
The receiver would brown out each time i used three servos simultaneously. ( two on elevators and one on rudder.

We then exchanged the receiver with a ar-7000 brand new, and it did exactly the same as the ar-8000.

Next, we exchanged that receiver and replaced it with the orange 7 channel for $17.00 i expected the same results since this aircraft had spektrum digital servos. However, we were pleasantly surprised...no matter what we did with all six servos it refused to brown out ..it passed the test
.
We switched to the aircraft with the hi-tek 645mg servos and put the ar-700 in it...98% charge on the battery and no load on the servos. My spektrum worked perfectly just like the orange.

We took the test aircraft to the field, did our range check and all was good. Went through th movements for knife edge, four pointe roll and snap roll...everything was good.

Added power slowly and took off, made a gentle bank while applying full power and then it happened, no control. Lost the aircraft...back to the drawing board. Conclusion was pilot error...did not test servos under load.

The first aircraft will be flown tomorrow with the orange receiver and digital servos. Added load and it still looks good.

That is my work-around until spektrum changes their firmware to handle the voltage and amps along with a new circuit board with thicker circuits to handle the load.

Let me close by saying this: I can use my spektrum transmitters and all my specktrum receivers and set them up to fly any size plane i choose...so can most of you. However, you should not have to do this on medium size aircraft. If you fly foamies and small nitro s up to 120 size you should not have a problem. Futaba, jr and taranus have no problems. On your big stuff use smart fly...red up to 30cc / yellow up to 50cc / and black up to and beyond 220cc. Power buses can be purchased for $17.95 and work great to isolate your receiver power...

All smart fly systems keep your battery at 5volts...life battery's are the standard. @ 6.6volts.

Hope this helps. Good luck and fly safe. Safety is number one.


Thank you gentlemen for your intelligent questions and comments. The other 5% can keep posting insults.

I will no longer be posting...just watching what happens. Good night and god bless...

I intend on producing around twenty videos as soon as my professional studio equipment arrives. You deserve the best. The posts will be on my utube site. I will let everyone know when and where to look.
i forgot to mention that my dx-8 and all those receivers were sent to spektrum and after three weeks i was told there was absolutely nothing wrong. They used all the standard "bench test" methodology.

I got them back and crashed another plane...oh well, never again.
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Old 09-22-2015, 05:00 PM
  #454  
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Originally Posted by jmiles1941
guess you just want to fly the big birds !!! I carry my planes in a new ford van e350 15 passenger took out the seats don't need them , and I enjoy IMAC you should try it , if you can fly good enough only 10 manuvers , will make a lot better pilot out of anyone , but everyone does not enjoy competition but I do!!! warbirds are expensive too my friend has a P51 with a 200cc engine 9000 dollars in her and IMAC planes are very expensive we have them from 4000 to 13000 dollars , they are not as expensive as the jets saw a bob violet jet with twin turbines he had 30000 dollars in the plane
Like I said to each his own. As far as IMAC been there dun that. To me it wasn't much fun 4 or 6 flights in a week end. Even at a Big War Bird event I get that many or more each day and no headache putting up with so called Impartial judges. Different Strokes. If U enjoy something just do it.
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Old 09-22-2015, 05:33 PM
  #455  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
Like I said to each his own. As far as IMAC been there dun that. To me it wasn't much fun 4 or 6 flights in a week end. Even at a Big War Bird event I get that many or more each day and no headache putting up with so called Impartial judges. Different Strokes. If U enjoy something just do it.
we fly 6 rounds 2 sequences per round , and I know what you mean by so called impartial judges , they all have their favorite pilot or type of plane , sad but it happens even in scale meets and jet meets , people are people , I don't just fly IMAC I also fly my 30% Sbach 342 , my 29% chipmunk , 30cc revolver , I sport fly them and enjoy them , with all my buddies , and I have a wonderful time just flying doesn't matter what just flying !!!
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Old 09-22-2015, 06:04 PM
  #456  
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Originally Posted by jmiles1941
we fly 6 rounds 2 sequences per round , and I know what you mean by so called impartial judges , they all have their favorite pilot or type of plane , sad but it happens even in scale meets and jet meets , people are people , I don't just fly IMAC I also fly my 30% Sbach 342 , my 29% chipmunk , 30cc revolver , I sport fly them and enjoy them , with all my buddies , and I have a wonderful time just flying doesn't matter what just flying !!!
That's what this hobby is all about FUN FUN FUN. So back to topic

Spectrum Stuff
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Old 09-22-2015, 06:15 PM
  #457  
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Originally Posted by SkidMan
The unpleasant truth - It is up to the builder to prevent brown-outs.
Exactly.

Frankly, I'm surprised in September 2015 this Spektrum "brownout" issue is even an issue at all, unless one is absolutely brand new to Spektrum 2.4, and has done ZERO research or homework. This matter was batted around years ago, and the bottom line was, and is, DON"T USE 4.8V PACKS!!! Use 6V or more, regulate if necessary where required. Heck, A123/LiFe pretty much even eliminated this weak link. Ensure servo and other electrical loads do not excessively pull down receiver voltage thus triggering the dreaded 'brownout.'

It's all part of doing a proper, quality build. Good grief.
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Old 09-22-2015, 06:26 PM
  #458  
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MY DEAR MODERATORS: LOOKS LIKE A LOT OF THREADS STILL NEED DELETING HARASSMENT & FLAMING:
RCU members are not permitted to harass or "flame" other members. Please do not post or transmit any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, profane, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable material of any kind, including, but not limited to, any material which encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, violate the rights of others, or otherwise violate any applicable local, state, national or international law. Please note that this also includes the posting of taunts on a forum solely for the purpose of demeaning that forum's topic and/or members.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear. I crashed several aircraft and did not ask spektrum to replace them. I sent in my DX-8 for service and was told they could not find anything wrong. I was afraid to fly that radio and asked for them to replace it with another DX-8 even a used one . However they told me they did not have any available...They offered me a new DX-7 and that was better than nothing. i SAID THAT i LOST ENOUGH MONEY BECAUSE OF THEM THAT i SHOULD GO UP AND NOT DOWNGRADE...TtHEY SAID NO AND i SAID GREAT! i'LL TAKE IT.

AFTER I DID THREE WEEKS OF RESEARCH AND TESTING, I HAD THE ANSWER...SPEKTRUM TRANSMITTERS WE GREAT. HOWEVER THE RECEIVERS WERE BAD. (IF YOU REALLY READ ALL THE POSTS YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN THAT SOMEONE ELSE TOLD THEM EXACTLY WHAT WAS WRONG AND HOW TO FIX IT...) I CALLED SPEKTRUM CORPORATE AND ASKED TO SPEAK TO A TECHNICAL PERSON. THE LADY ASKED WHY AND WHEN I TOLD HER I HAD THE ANSWER TO THEIR PROBLEM I WAS TOLD I WOULD BE TALKING TO THEIR LAWYER ...I ASKED WHAT IS SHE GOING TO DO...LET ME TALK TO DAN SMITH...AFTER A LONG WAIT DAN CAME ON THE LINE, I ASKED HIM TO HAVE SOMEONE CALL ME FROM TOP MANAGEMENT. HE SAID "no" POST THE ANSWER ON UTUBE. HIS ATTITUDE WAS IF WE DIDN'T INVENT IT IT IS NO GOOD... I SAID FINE IF YOU WANT A CONSULTANT THAT CAN FIX IT GIVE ME A CALL.

HE BASICALLY TOLD ME HE DID NOT CARE...THEY DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM...REALLY?

I TOLD HIM I HAD MOVIES AND WOULD BE HAPPY TO ENLIGHTEN HIM. THEN HE GOT NICE AND SAID SEND THEM TO SPEKTRUM..I DID AND THEY WERE BLOCKED...HE SAID IT WAS TOO MUCH TROUBLE TO ALLOW THEM TO BE RECEIVED. HE TOLD ME TO POST THEM ON UTUBE FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD TO SEE. I TOLD HIM THAT WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA... I THEN OFFERED TO SEND THEM TO HIS HOME ...HE ASKED HIS BOSS AND WAS TOLD HE WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM TO LOOK AT THEM FROM HOME...AGAINST COMPANY POLICY.

I TOLD HIM I WOULD GIVE HIM A WEEK TO GET SOMEONE TO CALL ME AND I WOUD HOLD OFF ON USING UTUBE.

AFTER A WEEK I GAVE UP AND STARTED THE THREAD ON RCU...I MADE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR THAT I DID NOT WANT A DX-18 BECAUSE IT WOULD LOOK LIKE THEY BOUGHT ME OFF. I CAN NOT BE BOUGHT. YOU OWE ME AN APOLOGY UNLESS YOU WERE JUST TALKING.

NOW YOU HAVE EVERYONE THINKING I WANT A DX-8 TO KEEP QUIET...THERE IS A NAME FOR THAT.

YOU AND ANDY "ASSUME" WAY TOO MUCH. IF I WANTED TO FILE SUIT AGAINST ANYONE I WOULD HAVE ALREADY DONE IT......POSTING WHERE IT COUNTS WAS TELLING YOU IT WOULD NOT BE RCU...

GO BACK AND REALLY READ WHAT I SAID, THEN READ WHAT ANDY KUNZ , TURNER AND AERROW SOMETHING SAID I SAID...NOT EVEN CLOSE AND YOU DID NOTHING. THE LAST POST ON THIS THREAD CALLED ME A LIER AND NOTHING DONE. WHEN I GOT SLAMMED I WROTE A REBUTTAL...JUST LIKE YOU DID DADDY. EXCEPT ...

I ASKED EVERYONE TO SEND ME A PM AND I WOULD ANSWER IT. THEY DID AND I NEVER HEARD ANOTHER WORD.

IN AT LEAST SIX PLACES I TOLD EVERYONE HOW TO DO THE TEST AND WHAT RESULTS I GOT WHEN I DID THEM...AND YES, I STILL HAVE THE VIDEOS. DOZENS OF PEOPLE HAVE SEEN THEM. THE LOCALS HAVE COME TO MY HOME AND SEEN THE TESTS FIRST HAND.

THEY AND A LOT OF OTHERS WILL BE POSTED ON UTUBE.

ANOTHER THING: I TRIED MY BEST TO KEEP SPEKTRUM FROM BEING SUED AGAIN. BUT THE BLACK HAT'S WANT EVERYTHING POSTED...WHEN EVERYONE GETS ACCESS TO THOSE VIDEOS THEY WILL HAVE PROOF THAT SPEKTRUM AND THAT SPEKTRUM IS 100% RESPONSIBLE FOR THOUSANDS OF CRASHES....SOMEONE (NOT ME SORRY) WILL START A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT THAT WILL BE DEVASTATING TO OUR HOBBY. THEY HAD A RECALL OF 17,000 DX-5 RADIOS JUST A FEW YEARS AGO...HOW MANY RECEIVERS HAVE THEY SOLD IN THE LAST 9 YEARS.??? I WILL DO AS YOU WANT...I WANT NOTHING. I TRIED TO HELP THEM AND ALL I GOT WAS TO BE TREATED LIKE CRAP. I WON'T LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO FLY WHAT I ALREADY HAVE ...AND YES. I GET OVER A MILLION DOLLARS TO BUILD A FULL SIZE MODEL .I RAN 7 PLANTS ON THE C-5A WHEN I WAS 27 YEARS OLD. TO DATE I HAVE BUILT OVER 154 AIRCRAFT.
I WAS OFFERED PROGRAM MANAGER FOR BOTH THE F-117 AND THE B-2 BOMBER. I PICKED BOB SMITH TO TAKE IT OVER WHEN NORTHROP WAS TWENTY BILLION IN THE HOLE. BOB GOT IT FLYING IN FIVE YEARS. WHEN KELLY JOHNSON RETIRED BEN RICH TOOK OVER AND ASKED ME TO RUN THE FII7 PROJECT CALLED "TACIT BLUE" ....SEND ME YOUR EMAIL OR COME TO MY HOME AND EAT SOME CROW. `SEE, NO NAME CALLING, NO THREATS, JUST THE FACT'S SON, JUST THE FACTS !!!! GOODNIGHT MY FELLOW PILOTS.
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Old 09-22-2015, 06:44 PM
  #459  
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Originally Posted by TOPGUN WINNER

"...ADDED POWER SLOWLY AND TOOK OFF, MADE A GENTLE BANK WHILE APPLYING FULL POWER AND THEN IT HAPPENED, NO CONTROL. LOST THE AIRCRAFT..."

Another aircraft lost? I'm reminded of the line "I wondered why the frisbee looked bigger the closer it got? Then it hit me." Why do you keep flying with the bad luck you are having?

I WILL NO LONGER BE POSTING...JUST WATCHING WHAT HAPPENS. GOOD NIGHT AND GOD BLESS...

I INTEND ON PRODUCING AROUND TWENTY VIDEOS AS SOON AS MY PROFESSIONAL STUDIO EQUIPMENT ARRIVES. YOU DESERVE THE BEST. THE POSTS WILL BE ON MY UTUBE SITE. I WILL LET EVERYONE KNOW WHEN AND WHERE TO LOOK.
For what it's worth, you've said numerous times now that you are done posting here, yet in every instance you are right back posting, sometimes within minutes. Then again you promised videos at the start of this....thread...but have yet to produce them.

I'm sure everyone is looking forward to the videos shot with professional studio equipment, but pretty sure nobody will be looking at them on UTUBE.

Best of luck with your vision quest, I guess everyone has to have a cause.
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:32 AM
  #460  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
For what it's worth, you've said numerous times now that you are done posting here, yet in every instance you are right back posting, sometimes within minutes. Then again you promised videos at the start of this....thread...but have yet to produce them.

I'm sure everyone is looking forward to the videos shot with professional studio equipment, but pretty sure nobody will be looking at them on UTUBE.

Best of luck with your vision quest, I guess everyone has to have a cause.
Or an ax to grind... Why don't you just buy yourself that DX-18 you seam to want so bad and go fly, I'm sure it's cheaper, less hassle, and allot more fun flying with whatever receivers you wish to use then buying all that professional studio equipment and staging your witch hunt results on YouTube.

Bob
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:09 AM
  #461  
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Originally Posted by TOPGUN WINNER
THAT IS MY WORK-AROUND UNTIL SPEKTRUM CHANGES THEIR FIRMWARE TO HANDLE THE VOLTAGE AND AMPS ALONG WITH A NEW CIRCUIT BOARD WITH THICKER CIRCUITS TO HANDLE THE LOAD.

I would like to expand on this sentence a bit here , if you don't mind .......

I won't belabor my credentials , but let's just say electronics and I go way back . From all I've read in your thread here , the bottom line is that your saying the Spektrum receivers have circuit boards with what are commonly called "traces" (the electrically conductive strips that carry the voltage) that are too small to carry the servo's load and cause a voltage drop to such degree as to cause the RX's microprocessor to reboot , is this correct ? If so , have you actually opened the Spektrum and orange RXs to examine the traces to see if Spektrum's are indeed measurably smaller ?

To get to the REAL point of my post here , My belief has always been that it's the extremely too small 22 or 26 gauge wire that almost all "hobby grade" servos , switch harnesses , and ESCs come equipped with that is causing the voltage drop , and that Spektrum is maybe just a bit less tolerant of the drop than the other brands (along with the crappy 4 cell NIMH pack adding to the power woes as well) . I ask also , have you or anyone else ever seen a burned trace on a Spektrum receiver ? If an entire electrical system is wired with conductors of too small gauge , the wires get warm and the voltage sags . But if only one portion of the circuit is underrated , as in the example of a circuit board trace that is too small and the rest of the system is adequately wired to handle the load , it will always burn the too small trace on the board , as it will act much the same as a "Fusable Link" (commonly seen in automotive electrical applications) .

I do believe there IS a low voltage brownout issue that all electronics can suffer . Yes I do believe some brands may be a bit more tolerant of this voltage sag than others . And I do believe your looking at the wrong end of the problem . Sure , the RX is rebooting , but it's the entire system that bears fault when a circuit fails to deliver enough power , and not just the portion of the circuit that is showing the symptoms of that loss of power .


Bottom line here = a few well lit , in focus photos of the circuit traces of a couple of receiver's , especially of the power buss traces where all the servos get their power , will quickly prove whether there is something behind your theory or not . I must admit , had you come here with a purely informational post , rather than trying to use your theory to squeeze Horizon for a DX18 TX , your message would have been received with far less suspicion and negative response . If there truly is a problem , and your ulterior motive is one of helping your fellow hobbyists , the whole blackmail campaign to get yourself a free TX has done nothing to foster the image of someone preforming a selfless act for the good of all aeromodeling .

Happy Flying to all ....
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:17 AM
  #462  
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I gogled Northrup management history. I dont see any Bob Smith listed anywhere.
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:30 AM
  #463  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
That's what this hobby is all about FUN FUN FUN. So back to topic

Spectrum Stuff
ok in my opinion I would never ever put a Spektrum in any plane I fly , they are junk pure junk end of story
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:41 AM
  #464  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
That's what this hobby is all about FUN FUN FUN. So back to topic

Spectrum Stuff
ok Spektrum is garbage I wouldn't use it in a foam airplane
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:04 AM
  #465  
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just built a larger scale goldwing bellanca decat. 33cc evo, hitec servos, heavy duty everything, toggle switches, regulators and everything nice i could think of. spent 30 hours on this arf build to ensure no issues. stupid me for thinking my dx6i was and Rx were quality enough for bigger money planes. 4th flight total and 2nd of the day i had a total signal loss. surfaces went to neutral and engine at 25% throttle. flew circles at 150 ft with zero control. super panic! cant even kill the engine thinking i'm going to kill somebody if it comes down. almost a full minute later i suddenly regain control, kill the engine and dead stick it in. super lucky! i spent 4 hours on every connection, replacing and rerouting Rx and satellite, wiggle testing and range checking over and over. problem solve right? second flight of the beautiful night and boom! total signal loss on a bank turn at 200ft. zero control and 60mph + into the ground. buried my evo 33cc over 2 inches beyond firewall. broke carbon fiber wing tube and a near total loss except for the tail servos and wires. i am certain everything on the plane side was perfect. side note: master mechanic/fabricator and electically confident. first thing i did was slowly pull the dx6i case halves apart and heard a quiet release. power to ckt board connector was off! plugged back in and cannot disconnect while pulling the case halves firmly without the terminals pulling out. which tells me it was not seated from the factory from 2 months prior when i bought it. did not bother to go through the rest of the remote and can't wait to send it back to spektrum in pieces. if you can't trust even the assembly process or the other complaints the this remote has then this is not the company to invest trust and time with. sorry for the rant but there's no arguement about spektrum anymore. they are just cheap and terrible. it took me 3 planes to find this problem
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:17 AM
  #466  
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3 planes? Maybe you should try this:
Go to Pololu.com. In their rc switches you will find a $10 item that will allow you to put in a back up receiver using a total different radio. If then you have a failure you can just switch to the other radio. Put the switch control on the back up radio
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Old 09-23-2015, 07:41 AM
  #467  
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Originally Posted by TOPGUN WINNER
... AND YES. I GET OVER A MILLION DOLLARS TO BUILD A FULL SIZE MODEL .I RAN 7 PLANTS ON THE C-5A WHEN I WAS 27 YEARS OLD. TO DATE I HAVE BUILT OVER 154 AIRCRAFT.
I WAS OFFERED PROGRAM MANAGER FOR BOTH THE F-117 AND THE B-2 BOMBER. I PICKED BOB SMITH TO TAKE IT OVER WHEN NORTHROP WAS TWENTY BILLION IN THE HOLE. BOB GOT IT FLYING IN FIVE YEARS. WHEN KELLY JOHNSON RETIRED BEN RICH TOOK OVER AND ASKED ME TO RUN THE FII7 PROJECT CALLED "TACIT BLUE" ....SEND ME YOUR EMAIL OR COME TO MY HOME AND EAT SOME CROW. `SEE, NO NAME CALLING, NO THREATS, JUST THE FACT'S SON, JUST THE FACTS !!!! GOODNIGHT MY FELLOW PILOTS.
Sigh ...

By arguing from authority you make the question of your authority as much a part of the discussion as the electrical issues, and those are very large assertions of expertise, some of which might have some weight in this discussion, most of which do not.

For the sake of my eyes, and I'm sure I'm not alone, it would be very helpful if you did not use all caps. Your "Uncle Gene" posts on the other forum are a lot easier on the eye than most of your posts here.

Looking at your reports of your tests there might be another interpretation of your results.

Here is a brief summary of what I believe you did with your test.
  1. 5-Cell NiMh battery pack. I'm assuming these are AA sized cells
  2. Receiver to be tested
  3. Use three servos simultaneously

  • The Spektrum "browned out" each time (AR7000 and AR8000)
  • The Orange 7-channel did not "brown out"

Part of your conclusion is that the power traces on the Spektrum receiver circuit boards are too thin and insufficient for the load required by the Spektrum digital servos and Hitec 645mgs.

Your suggested fix for Spektrum is:
THAT IS MY WORK-AROUND UNTIL SPEKTRUM CHANGES THEIR FIRMWARE TO HANDLE THE VOLTAGE AND AMPS ALONG WITH A NEW CIRCUIT BOARD WITH THICKER CIRCUITS TO HANDLE THE LOAD.


I lean toward the opposite interpretation - The Spektrum receivers may be conducting more current than the Orange receiver
  • Since brown outs are caused by the power to the receiver dropping below that required by the microprocessor.
  • AND
    In your scenario the low voltage is caused by the current drawn by the three servos in simultaneous motion.
  • AND
    The voltage on any battery will drop as the load increases.
    The NiMh chemistry and small cell sizes used in the test have the greatest drop under these circumstances than other popular solutions in the hobby: (NiCad, Li-Ion, LiPo, LiFe, etc.)
  • AND
    Assuming that the Orange and Spektrum receivers "brown out" at similar voltages, regardless of the load
  • THEN
    the data suggests that the Spektrum receivers are supplying greater current to the servos which results in the lower voltage that causes the brown out.

Assuming that the Orange and Spektrum receivers brown out at similar voltages, it appears that the Orange receiver might have the thin traces and/or higher resistance connectors limiting the current flow. If there is higher resistance then the voltage drop to the receiver would be less.

But, of course, we do not have enough data. Some of the missing data are:
  • Brown out voltages of the receivers tested
  • Actual current during the test / Lowest voltage at the battery pack during the test

Without that information cannot conclude the source of the brown outs in your test. A receiver that is capable of conducting higher current is better than one that cannot; it would, however, require an appropriate battery for supplying the full power required by the battery.

Paul



Last edited by SkidMan; 09-23-2015 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 09-23-2015, 07:55 AM
  #468  
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Originally Posted by skidman
sigh ...

By arguing from authority you make the question of your authority as much a part of the discussion as the electrical issues, and those are very large assertions of expertise, some of which might have some weight in this discussion.

For the sake of my eyes, and i'm sure i'm not alone, it would be very helpful if you did not use all caps. Your "uncle gene" posts on the other forum are a lot easier on the eye than most of your posts here.

Looking at your reports of your tests there might be another interpretation of your results.

Here is a brief summary of what i believe you did with your test.
  1. 5-cell nimh battery pack. I'm assuming these are aa sized cells
  2. receiver to be tested
  3. use three servos simultaneously

  • the spektrum "browned out" each time (ar7000 and ar8000)
  • the orange 7-channel did not "brown out"

part of your conclusion is that the power traces on the spektrum receiver circuit boards are too thin and insufficient for the load required by the spektrum digital servos and hitec 645mgs.

Your suggested fix for spektrum is:

i lean toward the opposite interpretation - the spektrum receivers may be conducting more current than the orange receiver
  • since brown outs are caused by the power to the receiver dropping below that required by the microprocessor.
  • and
    in your scenario the low voltage is caused by the current drawn by the three servos in simultaneous motion.
  • and
    the voltage on any battery will drop as the load increases.
    The nimh chemistry and small cell sizes used in the test have the greatest drop under these circumstances than other popular solutions in the hobby: (nicad, li-ion, lipo, life, etc.)
  • and
    assuming that the orange and spektrum receivers "brown out" at similar voltages, regardless of the load
  • then
    the data suggests that the spektrum receivers are supplying greater current to the servos which results in the lower voltage that causes the brown out.

assuming that the orange and spektrum receivers brown out at similar voltages, it appears that the orange receiver might have the thin traces and/or higher resistance connectors limiting the current flow. If there is higher resistance then the voltage drop to the receiver would be less.

But, of course, we do not have enough data. Some of the missing data are:
  • brown out voltages of the receivers tested
  • actual current during the test / lowest voltage at the battery pack during the test

without that information cannot conclude the source of the brown outs in your test. A receiver that is capable of conducting higher current is better than one that cannot; it would, however, require an appropriate battery for supplying the full power required by the battery.

Paul



what is it that you don't understand about a "functional test" it is to keep it simple ...you fail or pass.

Why don't you run the tests. Your way and i will be happy to critique your methodology.

As for you trying to show off your limited knowledge of circuit boards i strongly suggest you do not go there with me. Really.
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:15 AM
  #469  
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Originally Posted by TOPGUN WINNER
what is it that you don't understand about a "functional test" it is to keep it simple ...you fail or pass.

Why don't you run the tests. Your way and i will be happy to critique your methodology.

As for you trying to show off your limited knowledge of circuit boards i strongly suggest you do not go there with me. Really.
Don't have a problem with the pass/fail nature of the test, I'm just considering a different conclusion based upon the data and the response you expect from Spektrum.

THAT IS MY WORK-AROUND UNTIL SPEKTRUM CHANGES THEIR FIRMWARE TO HANDLE THE VOLTAGE AND AMPS ALONG WITH A NEW CIRCUIT BOARD WITH THICKER CIRCUITS TO HANDLE THE LOAD.

Last edited by SkidMan; 09-23-2015 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:16 AM
  #470  
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Instead of hooking the receiver up to servos, how about applying a variable resistance load to the servo bus. By increasing the resistance value and noting the voltage until brownout occurs should give the max amp value the receiver can deliver. Now compare the Spektrum against other brands tested in a similar fashion and see how it holds up against them.
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:24 AM
  #471  
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it'd be nice to have that be a viable option but no-one could've caught this plane within 2 seconds before impact. having a "back-up" is not going to help at a 60mph dive. the option is to call utilizing spectrum devices a fools choice. i work in an industry full of faults and the assembly process should not be accountable for an issue like this. to many ifs when a large scale aiplane has no control at that speed at any field. i got lucky it only hit ground
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:37 AM
  #472  
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Originally Posted by dirtybird
I gogled Northrup management history. I dont see any Bob Smith listed anywhere.
You aren't much of a "GOOGLER" are you...I see that all of you kids "GOOGLE" ABOUT EVERYTHING. So does my son who is a Genius on Computers.

Let see...Bob Smith exec VP Rockwell over all B-1 and B1B design and build. Took over Northrup B-2 Program when Northrup was in the hole by twenty billion dollars. (1967 I think...not exactly sure) Gave them a five year Contract and Flew the first B-2 Bomber on his Five year Plan.
World wide Consultant to Fortune Fifty Companies. My friend for 40 years and a true gentleman. Like me...Retired may be dead by

now...don't talk anymore.

NOW , TELL US YOUR SUCCESS STORY...YOU CONTRIBUTED WHAT EXACTLY?
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:43 AM
  #473  
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Originally Posted by skidman
don't have a problem with the pass/fail nature of the test, i'm just considering a different conclusion based upon the data and the response you expect from spektrum.
i must correct you: The test was to run six servos...spektrum failed at only three orange did not fail when using all six. Do you understand?
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:50 AM
  #474  
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Originally Posted by dirtybird
3 planes? Maybe you should try this:
Go to Pololu.com. In their rc switches you will find a $10 item that will allow you to put in a back up receiver using a total different radio. If then you have a failure you can just switch to the other radio. Put the switch control on the back up radio
NOT HOW I DO IT: I RUN DUAL RECEIVERS AT THE SAME TIME. I CAN STILL LAND THE PLANE IF ONE OF THE RADIOS FAIL. I RUN DUAL SERVOS ON EVERYTHING IN A LARGE PLANE aS MANY AS SIX ON JUST THE AILERONS. YOU SPLIT THEM UP ON EACH RECEIVER SO YOU CAN STILL FLY IF ONE GOES OUR...NEVER HAD THAT HAPPEN...JUST BEING SAFE. GOOD INPUT.
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Old 09-23-2015, 09:02 AM
  #475  
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Originally Posted by init4fun
.


The only way the trace would burn is if there was a dead short at the receiver pin connector, or a device connected to it were to draw an excessive amount of current, and the trace couldn't handle the current load... as the voltage sags there's not enough voltage to drive the servos, so the current drops... the receiver reboots as the voltage drops down below 3.x volts... I would think something upstream to the receiver, the switch, wire, connectors, or the battery itself is not passing the current demand downstream... a std "J" connector is stated to pass 3 amps continuous... if the servos were to draw more than that, the servo mfg's would have used heavy gauge wire and connectors.... there's definitely a bottel neck somewhere in the circuit causing the brown out.



John M,



Originally Posted by KEVPAULJ
just built a larger scale goldwing bellanca decat. 33cc evo, hitec servos, heavy duty everything, toggle switches, regulators and everything nice i could think of. spent 30 hours on this arf build to ensure no issues. stupid me for thinking my dx6i was and Rx were quality enough for bigger money planes. 4th flight total and 2nd of the day i had a total signal loss. surfaces went to neutral and engine at 25% throttle. flew circles at 150 ft with zero control. super panic! cant even kill the engine thinking i'm going to kill somebody if it comes down. almost a full minute later i suddenly regain control, kill the engine and dead stick it in. super lucky! i spent 4 hours on every connection, replacing and rerouting Rx and satellite, wiggle testing and range checking over and over. problem solve right? second flight of the beautiful night and boom! total signal loss on a bank turn at 200ft. zero control and 60mph + into the ground. buried my evo 33cc over 2 inches beyond firewall. broke carbon fiber wing tube and a near total loss except for the tail servos and wires. i am certain everything on the plane side was perfect. side note: master mechanic/fabricator and electically confident. first thing i did was slowly pull the dx6i case halves apart and heard a quiet release. power to ckt board connector was off! plugged back in and cannot disconnect while pulling the case halves firmly without the terminals pulling out. which tells me it was not seated from the factory from 2 months prior when i bought it. did not bother to go through the rest of the remote and can't wait to send it back to spektrum in pieces. if you can't trust even the assembly process or the other complaints the this remote has then this is not the company to invest trust and time with. sorry for the rant but there's no arguement about spektrum anymore. they are just cheap and terrible. it took me 3 planes to find this problem

I wouldn't have taken it up for the second flight after experiencing the first hold / lockout... just too many issues going on all at once... that's really got to suck having to experience that, sorry for your lose.





John M,
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