Futaba 8FG Flaperons - Help Please
07-01-2018, 09:09 AM
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Futaba 8FG Flaperons - Help Please
Trying to work out how to add Flaperons to a plane with separate aileron servos. I'm sure the previous radios (like my old FF7) were a lot more intuitive but I have eventually found out what to do - sort of.
I've found out that the functionality is hidden under 'CAMBER' so first of all I need to assign a control to the virtual function CAMB. Now what I really want is a three position switch - no flaps, low flaps, high flaps so I picked switch SE and set the ON/OFF status to OFF, ON, ON.
In CAMB MIX you then have to select AIL and set the rate for each of the switch settings.
Now the problem, it ignores the centre switch position and just activates high flaps on the third switch position - it is behaving as if the switch is set to OFF, OFF, ON but it isn't.
So then I tried setting CAMB to the rotary switch LD and I get Airbrakes at one end, nothing in the centre and Flaps at the other end. I don't want airbrakes so I adjust the rates to turn them off which sort of works but it is a bit naff. Basically when I turn LD nothing happens until it gets 50% round and then I get proportional flaps for the last 50%.
It's workable but it is not what I wanted.
I really wanted a three position switch - Off, Low Flaps, High Flaps
If I were to use a rotary control I'd like no flaps at one extreme and then proportional flaps to the other end - not this nothing happens for the first 50% rubbish.
Any idea what I am doing wrong?
Cheers,
Nigel
I've found out that the functionality is hidden under 'CAMBER' so first of all I need to assign a control to the virtual function CAMB. Now what I really want is a three position switch - no flaps, low flaps, high flaps so I picked switch SE and set the ON/OFF status to OFF, ON, ON.
In CAMB MIX you then have to select AIL and set the rate for each of the switch settings.
Now the problem, it ignores the centre switch position and just activates high flaps on the third switch position - it is behaving as if the switch is set to OFF, OFF, ON but it isn't.
So then I tried setting CAMB to the rotary switch LD and I get Airbrakes at one end, nothing in the centre and Flaps at the other end. I don't want airbrakes so I adjust the rates to turn them off which sort of works but it is a bit naff. Basically when I turn LD nothing happens until it gets 50% round and then I get proportional flaps for the last 50%.
It's workable but it is not what I wanted.
I really wanted a three position switch - Off, Low Flaps, High Flaps
If I were to use a rotary control I'd like no flaps at one extreme and then proportional flaps to the other end - not this nothing happens for the first 50% rubbish.
Any idea what I am doing wrong?
Cheers,
Nigel
07-02-2018, 04:35 AM
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After more experimentation last night I don't think the 8FG supports what I am trying to do.
For CAMBER Mix you can set two rates which can be mapped onto a rotary knob or switch.
However, in each case the rates refer to the two extremes of movement with centre being off.
So if I choose a switch then centre is off (or 0% mixing) switch up is one rate and switch down is the other rate.
Or if I choose a rotary knob, then fully anti-clockwise is one rate, fully clockwise is the other rate and halfway is off (0% mixing).
Therefore, using a switch as I had hoped I could do
Up - low flaps
Centre - no flaps
Down - high flaps
but I can't do
Up - no flaps
Centre - low flaps
Down - high flaps
which is a shame.
Cheers,
Nigel
For CAMBER Mix you can set two rates which can be mapped onto a rotary knob or switch.
However, in each case the rates refer to the two extremes of movement with centre being off.
So if I choose a switch then centre is off (or 0% mixing) switch up is one rate and switch down is the other rate.
Or if I choose a rotary knob, then fully anti-clockwise is one rate, fully clockwise is the other rate and halfway is off (0% mixing).
Therefore, using a switch as I had hoped I could do
Up - low flaps
Centre - no flaps
Down - high flaps
but I can't do
Up - no flaps
Centre - low flaps
Down - high flaps
which is a shame.
Cheers,
Nigel
07-11-2018, 02:13 PM
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Nigel -
I have the 8GH Super and programmed the "SG" switch to do what you want via mixes. It is a bit convoluted but gives me no flaps with the switch up, half flaps with the switch in the middle and full flaps with the switch all the way down. The mixes will use the SG switch for both activation and control (this is the convoluted part) .
1) will need two mixes; one for AIL and one for AIL2
2) Mix#1 :
Start with the second screen.
a. Set the ACT switch to "SG".
b. Select "SG" which will take you to the "H/W Select Page" which shows "SG" blinking.
c. On the "H/W Select" page put SG into this configuration: ON/OFF/OFF (top to bottom) Alternate set to "OFF"
d. Return to MIX #1, the second screen and set Master to "SG" and slave to "AIL"
e. set Link to "OFF"
f. Go to the first screen
g. Set to "LINEAR"
h. Only set the y offset (OFFS) to the amount of full flaperon you want. For me I used +55 on AIL
2. Repeat the above for MIX #2 with only the following being different:
a. on screen 2 set slave to "AIL2"
b. on screen 1 set the Y offset to the inverse of what was set for mix#1, for me -55
The displays for the mixes don't seem to make sense. For example the ACT shows "OFF" for two of the switch positions even though the mix is always active. You can see this in the servo display were you should see channel 1 and 6 (for me AIL and AIL2) moving when switch SG is moved from all up to center and then all down.
Hope this helps.
Gordon
I have the 8GH Super and programmed the "SG" switch to do what you want via mixes. It is a bit convoluted but gives me no flaps with the switch up, half flaps with the switch in the middle and full flaps with the switch all the way down. The mixes will use the SG switch for both activation and control (this is the convoluted part) .
1) will need two mixes; one for AIL and one for AIL2
2) Mix#1 :
Start with the second screen.
a. Set the ACT switch to "SG".
b. Select "SG" which will take you to the "H/W Select Page" which shows "SG" blinking.
c. On the "H/W Select" page put SG into this configuration: ON/OFF/OFF (top to bottom) Alternate set to "OFF"
d. Return to MIX #1, the second screen and set Master to "SG" and slave to "AIL"
e. set Link to "OFF"
f. Go to the first screen
g. Set to "LINEAR"
h. Only set the y offset (OFFS) to the amount of full flaperon you want. For me I used +55 on AIL
2. Repeat the above for MIX #2 with only the following being different:
a. on screen 2 set slave to "AIL2"
b. on screen 1 set the Y offset to the inverse of what was set for mix#1, for me -55
The displays for the mixes don't seem to make sense. For example the ACT shows "OFF" for two of the switch positions even though the mix is always active. You can see this in the servo display were you should see channel 1 and 6 (for me AIL and AIL2) moving when switch SG is moved from all up to center and then all down.
Hope this helps.
Gordon
07-13-2018, 01:59 AM
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Thanks for the suggestion.
Almost following but puzzled by the switch setting to ON/OFF/OFF
I’m looking for
Off
Half Flaps
Full Flaps
I have done what you have said and that gives me
Full Flaps (55%)
No Flaps
No Flaps
Cheers,
Nigel
Almost following but puzzled by the switch setting to ON/OFF/OFF
I’m looking for
Off
Half Flaps
Full Flaps
I have done what you have said and that gives me
Full Flaps (55%)
No Flaps
No Flaps
Cheers,
Nigel
Last edited by nheather; 07-13-2018 at 02:15 AM.
07-13-2018, 04:34 AM
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Nigel-
yiks! Looks like I mislead you a bit. It has been a few years since I set this up. Turns out I also had to use the “aribrake” function, also tied to switch “sg”
This may be more hoop jumping than you want, but here is what I did with the airbrake:
screen #1
1. Set AIL and AIL2 to -33, this is the mid-point for the flaperon travel.
2. Set ELE to 0
screen #2
1. Set the ACT again to “SG”
2. Select “SG” and here set on the hardware screen the “SG” on/off sequence to Off/on/off
3. Back on the second airbrake screen set speeds to “0”
4. Set auto-sw to “- -“
So it turns out the “airbrake” function controls the flaperons to the first position when SG is in the middle position and the mixes put the flaperons in the full position when SG is all down. Just to be finally clearer , down to me here is towards the Rx case back, as I fly holding the tx case parallel to the ground.
switch. Mix. Airbrake
up. Off. Off
mid. Off. On
down. On. Off
Sorry for the confusion on my part, hope this REALLY helps this time.
yiks! Looks like I mislead you a bit. It has been a few years since I set this up. Turns out I also had to use the “aribrake” function, also tied to switch “sg”
This may be more hoop jumping than you want, but here is what I did with the airbrake:
screen #1
1. Set AIL and AIL2 to -33, this is the mid-point for the flaperon travel.
2. Set ELE to 0
screen #2
1. Set the ACT again to “SG”
2. Select “SG” and here set on the hardware screen the “SG” on/off sequence to Off/on/off
3. Back on the second airbrake screen set speeds to “0”
4. Set auto-sw to “- -“
So it turns out the “airbrake” function controls the flaperons to the first position when SG is in the middle position and the mixes put the flaperons in the full position when SG is all down. Just to be finally clearer , down to me here is towards the Rx case back, as I fly holding the tx case parallel to the ground.
switch. Mix. Airbrake
up. Off. Off
mid. Off. On
down. On. Off
Sorry for the confusion on my part, hope this REALLY helps this time.
07-13-2018, 07:17 AM
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Thanks,
That makes more sense, will try that this evening.
And yes our ‘downs’ are the opposite way round - makes no difference.
Cheers,
Nigel
That makes more sense, will try that this evening.
And yes our ‘downs’ are the opposite way round - makes no difference.
Cheers,
Nigel
07-14-2018, 12:27 AM
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Hello Nigel,
Hopefully you have got this sorted now but, for future reference, I think that there is a very simple way of achieving what you want. Note that I no longer have my 8FG and am working from memory so it is possible that the 8FG will not support this though, as long as you have the latest software, I am fairly sure it does.
In the Function Menu assign SE as the control for the Camber function.
Go to the Camber Mix menu. Change INH to ACT and it will default to ON. Do not assign a switch. Select AIL. The four boxes allow you to set the travel for each aileron in each direction when SE is in the fully UP and fully DOWN positions. As you have noted, they remain at neutral when SE is in the mid position.Move SE to the position you wish to use for fully lowered flaps. Switch on the model and try adjusting the Rate2 value for Aileron 1. One aileron should move. If not, return the Rate 2 value to zero and adjust the Rate 1 value. If the aileron moves in the wrong direction, simply use a minus value and adjust until you have the desired amount of movement for full flap. Now set Aileron 2 in the same way. If your mechanical linkages are identical the value will be the same for both ailerons but you will probably have to use slightly different values to get identical movement of both flaps.
Now go to the Dual Rate menu. Change AIL to CAMB. Set SE in its mid position. Adjust the Neutral Point NT value while watching the model. You will probably need a minus value. Both ailerons should move so continue to adjust the NT value until they are in the required position for Mid-flap. Test SE in all three positions.
Don’t forget to set the Aileron Limit Points in the End Point menu to avoid stalling the servos if you apply full aileron and full flap simultaneously.
Hope that is of interest.
Malcolm
P.S. I did send you a PM in response to your question on the Futaba Direct Support forum.
Hopefully you have got this sorted now but, for future reference, I think that there is a very simple way of achieving what you want. Note that I no longer have my 8FG and am working from memory so it is possible that the 8FG will not support this though, as long as you have the latest software, I am fairly sure it does.
In the Function Menu assign SE as the control for the Camber function.
Go to the Camber Mix menu. Change INH to ACT and it will default to ON. Do not assign a switch. Select AIL. The four boxes allow you to set the travel for each aileron in each direction when SE is in the fully UP and fully DOWN positions. As you have noted, they remain at neutral when SE is in the mid position.Move SE to the position you wish to use for fully lowered flaps. Switch on the model and try adjusting the Rate2 value for Aileron 1. One aileron should move. If not, return the Rate 2 value to zero and adjust the Rate 1 value. If the aileron moves in the wrong direction, simply use a minus value and adjust until you have the desired amount of movement for full flap. Now set Aileron 2 in the same way. If your mechanical linkages are identical the value will be the same for both ailerons but you will probably have to use slightly different values to get identical movement of both flaps.
Now go to the Dual Rate menu. Change AIL to CAMB. Set SE in its mid position. Adjust the Neutral Point NT value while watching the model. You will probably need a minus value. Both ailerons should move so continue to adjust the NT value until they are in the required position for Mid-flap. Test SE in all three positions.
Don’t forget to set the Aileron Limit Points in the End Point menu to avoid stalling the servos if you apply full aileron and full flap simultaneously.
Hope that is of interest.
Malcolm
P.S. I did send you a PM in response to your question on the Futaba Direct Support forum.
Last edited by malcolmholt; 07-14-2018 at 12:30 AM.
09-03-2019, 06:21 AM
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I know this is an old thread, but I just wanted to chime in and thank Gyrodog. The combination of your two posts did the trick for me. I'm coming from a 7C (about 10 years of flying with that) to the 8FG Super and the learning curve is steep. And as for help from the Futaba manual (which I printed out all 149 pages of because I purchased the 8FG used), there is none. Wasted paper and printer ink!
I have downloaded a few of the articles by Malcom Holt and those are very helpful, but I still struggled with getting flaperons set up on switch SG (three position). The combination of Camber Mix and Airbrake works perfectly. Now all I need to do is "copy" from model, to model, to model, etc. Thanks!
I have downloaded a few of the articles by Malcom Holt and those are very helpful, but I still struggled with getting flaperons set up on switch SG (three position). The combination of Camber Mix and Airbrake works perfectly. Now all I need to do is "copy" from model, to model, to model, etc. Thanks!
