RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros Discussion all about rc radios, transmitters, receivers, servos, etc.

Should I upgrade my 12X?

Reply

Old 08-22-2018, 04:06 AM
  #1  
KFX450
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (30)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampstead,NH
Posts: 607
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Should I upgrade my 12X?

I've had my 12x forever, I fly everything with it, from foam edf's to turbines, the feel is good, the gimbals are smooth, it's a little heavy, but I like the feel of a quality radio and the programing can be a little cumbersome, but i'm use to it. I know the old saying, if it isn't broke ..etc.. But I feel like I haven't caught up with the times, like i'm missing all kinds of cool features. Should I upgrade?? Should I learn new programming? Futaba, Jeti etc.. Not looking for a " which radio is better" war, I know they are all good Spektrum, Futaba, Jeti...Just want some opinions..
KFX450 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2018, 09:12 AM
  #2  
rgburrill
 
rgburrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Trumbull, CT
Posts: 2,135
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

In a word, NO. At least not until you can no longer get a replacement battery.
rgburrill is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2018, 11:14 AM
  #3  
Zeeb
My Feedback: (41)
 
Zeeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Highland Utah UT
Posts: 5,076
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I still have my 12X and use if for my gassers and one turbine which it was originally setup on that radio, in fact, just got an Eneloop refill for my second cassette. I also have several other radios and the one that feels the closest to my 12X is the Futaba 18SZ but it has a whole bunch more capability. If you want to keep all your Spektrum RF stuff, the DX20 is my second favorite as a comparison to my 12X. That may indeed be your best option. I would not get rid of the 12X, they aren't worth much anymore, but just add another radio like a DX20.
Zeeb is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2018, 06:16 PM
  #4  
KFX450
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (30)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampstead,NH
Posts: 607
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

It is a good radio, Been using it for everything. Programing is not as easy as the newer stuff..Have a club member flying jeti, he loves it. If I remember correctly the DX18 felt cheap in the hands, haven't held one in a while. How do you like the Futaba? Feel, programing?? Problem is I just can't run down the street and start playing with some of these to see..
KFX450 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2018, 12:49 PM
  #5  
Zeeb
My Feedback: (41)
 
Zeeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Highland Utah UT
Posts: 5,076
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

The 18SZ is in the same case as the 14SG so it's a little smaller than the 18MZ's and a chunk smaller than the DX18. I still have one of those but rarely use it as it's just too big for my hands. I cannot get to the switches without dragging the sticks. I keep my DX18 as it is a QQ and I figure why not? The DX20 is pretty much the same size as the 18SZ and the 12X but as much as I made fun of the leather grips, they really are quite nice. Switch layout is good and I don't have any problem reaching the switches. The gimbals are all metal and pretty nice, but not quite as good as the Futaba. As one member mentioned in another thread here; right now the Futaba stuff is spendy as they added 25% to the pricing saying it was the tariffs put on Chinese imports. If that was/is such an issue I don't understand why we've not seen similar increases on the other radios. Futaba was already expensive due to Hobbico's pricing being about 50% more than the rest of the world and when Hobbico went Bankrupt we all hoped that when Futaba took over the importing/distributing/service for the USA, that the prices would come down to something closer to what they sell for around the world but it didn't happen and then they added the 25% on top of that.

Programming; You're talking two different primary ways of organizing the computer logic for these radios. It's not as bad as it was, but when I went from a Futaba 9Z to a JR 9303, I could have just screamed at the difficulties I had picking that up. So the programming on the 18SZ is pretty easy even compared to the 18MZ but they've still got some funny names for functions like flaps are called "camber" which is a glider term. I'd say the DX20 is probably one of the easiest to program radios I've ever owned, it's quite intuitive.

So from a price standpoint, switch over to Futaba would cost you quite a bit of money. As for the Jeti? They are really heavy, they look and feel like an aluminum pizza box including all the square straight edges of the case and they're not cheap either.

May I suggest that you take a look at this thread, it's got quite a bit of information about various radio options and how they work.

Need to start from new. After 15 years AWOL

Last edited by Zeeb; 08-23-2018 at 12:54 PM.
Zeeb is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2018, 06:56 PM
  #6  
KFX450
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (30)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampstead,NH
Posts: 607
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Zeeb , your the man!! I appreciate you taking the time. Thatís a lot of good information..thanks for your help!!
KFX450 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2018, 03:21 PM
  #7  
r ward
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 481
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

really, a new radio only benefits you in being programmable. as far as flying control, age really doesn't matter. in fact some say that all the programmability negates learning to fly a plane and promotes fly a circuit board, or chip. I guess it's the age old "calculator vs. math knowledge" argument. I personally would rather fly simple 4 channel and know I am making the plane do what it is doing,....limits, mistakes and crashes, or not. it seems to me that most people are way "over radioed" by buying a 12 or 20 channel radio and then flying for enjoyment. there just isn't that many things to control on an average plane and there are very few of us that have the visual orientation to use all that controllability in the air.
r ward is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2018, 05:58 PM
  #8  
KFX450
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (30)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampstead,NH
Posts: 607
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

It's more of the program function I am after. I do fly turbines so I am need of a good amount of channels. Flaps, Brakes, Gear, Gyro etc..Just wanted to be ease of use and with the times...

I did happen to play around with a few radios in the past couple days..Played with a Jeti DS-14, Scrolled through some of the functions. Felt like a good quality radio. I'm a pincher when I fly so the sticks felt a little to far inward, Could be just me. Seemed like a great radio.

I also played around with a 16SZ and an 18SZ, and I have to say I liked the feel of it. The programing is great, seems very easy. Love the touch screen as well. I might be leaning towards the 18SZ..
KFX450 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 04:10 PM
  #9  
Zeeb
My Feedback: (41)
 
Zeeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Highland Utah UT
Posts: 5,076
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by KFX450 View Post
The programing is great, seems very easy. Love the touch screen as well. I might be leaning towards the 18SZ..
It's a great radio which will do about 95% of what the 18MZ WC will do, at about 1/3rd the price of the MZ and as I said, it fits my hands better....
Zeeb is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2018, 08:43 AM
  #10  
Ron Stahl
My Feedback: (12)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: reisterstown, MD
Posts: 1,864
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I'm looking to upgrade my 12X as well to DSMX. I love my radio and have over a dozen models in it ready to fly just want the DSMX link as well for my expensive planes with lots of time scratch building them. I'm not looking to start or continue the which is better radio war. When I was in the Hobby shop business I always told customers " a good radio is the one you like, that's in your price range, that works every time you turn it on".
Ron Stahl is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2018, 02:40 PM
  #11  
Zeeb
My Feedback: (41)
 
Zeeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Highland Utah UT
Posts: 5,076
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

The only issue right now is that JR Americas may not be up and running again and able to do the upgrade. The ONLY advantage to DSMX is if you commonly fly places like Joe Nall where literally hundreds of models in the air at the same time. You also cannot choose to use DSM2 which still has the power brownout indication and the Frame Loss/Hold information is much more accurate. If I had it to do over again, I do not think I would do the DSMX upgrade.
Zeeb is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2018, 05:23 AM
  #12  
AndyKunz
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: White Heath, IL
Posts: 2,776
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

The upgrade of a 12X to DSMX is still being handled by Horizon Hobby.

Contact Product Service to start the process: https://www.horizonhobby.com/content...service-center

Tell them you want to upgrade your 12X to DSMX. They'll take it from there.

Andy

Last edited by AndyKunz; 09-28-2018 at 05:58 AM. Reason: Fix link
AndyKunz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2018, 12:01 PM
  #13  
hpais
 
hpais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Issaquah, greater Seattle, WA
Posts: 112
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I just stumbled upon this thread, because I have the exact same predicament: I have a 12X, which I used to fly with turbines, helicopters, foamies, and even a larger gas-powered Stearman. I have zero concerns with my 12X but since I also got a Turnigy 9XR that came with a 3DR drone I bought, and it has Telemetry, and a brand new transmitter module from FrSky, I got the upgrade itch. One word: Telemetry - knowing what's going on up there...

This is what I've considered so far:

Telemetry is awesome - it would enable me to monitor the inflight voltages of the LiPos - I had a forced landing in the past with a CARF Eurosport because the JetCat LiPo suffered a sudden death and I had to deadstick the plane. Broken set of landing gears - $900 - easily would pay for a new radio from anyone. A 6S LiPo, 5000 mAh, costs $120 these days. That's about half the price of a decent radio with telemetry, from a number of manufacturers. Telemetry would give you all the data that the Jetcat ground unit has, but with the model in flight. Whether it's a gasoline, electric, glow, or turbine, you can get real time data, and have alarms telling you of imminent dangers, before they become an emergency and risk your precious model. To me, Telemetry alone is worth the cost of upgrade. One model saved, would pay for the cost of the upgrade, many times over.

Technology: DSMX seems great but the ACCST or the FrSky version of frequency hopping spread spectrum, which is the same technology used in the Cell phone network, with thousands of simultaneous users, is much more robust, and draws my attention to the FrSky radio, as the current alternative to my 12X. In my view, Spektrum, Futaba, FrSky all have superior systems to DSM2, and they are all comparable. I don't have delusions of flying at Joe Nall or Florida Jets, but it's a nice thing to have - knowing that no matter how many models in the air, the radio link will be solid and interference free. At least (in theory), free-er and bett-er than with DSM2.

Weight and Feel: Regarding the heavy feel of the 12X (which I love), and the precision of the sticks, other radios have a similar feeling: apparently the FrSky Horus X10S has a similar look and feel. Much superior to Spektrum's iX12, in my opinion, and to Futaba's plastic feel. You don't have to give up the solid feel of the 12X, if you pick the upgrade carefully and without prejudice against the new brands in the market.

Radio Programming: this will be a hurdle, even if you stick with JR and get a 28X or XG11 from JR Americas. You will have to learn a new programming paradigm. The 12X is over 10 years old, and programming has shifted away from that paradigm. This will be the same challenge for any radio brand. I don't think any brand has a radio that easier or harder than any other.

Cost of Upgrading: You have to consider the transmitter, and then the cost of the receivers. The least expensive receivers, with the most robust radio system, and with telemetry, appear again to be from FrSky - $25 gets you a receiver with SBUS and 16 channels, 4 discrete PWM outpus (X4R) . $30 gets you 8 discrete PWM outputs (X8R). All have telemetry...

At this point I am considering the iX12 from Spektrum, and the Horus X10S from FrSky. I dislike Android, and like Open SW, and the FrSky has an open source SW alternative, with which I am comfortable... they cost around the same $500 give or take 10% - a whopping discount from when I bought my DX12 10 years ago ($1,200).

Last edited by hpais; 09-28-2018 at 01:01 PM.
hpais is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2018, 12:07 PM
  #14  
AndyKunz
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: White Heath, IL
Posts: 2,776
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

JR 12X, not Spektrum DX12. We never made one of those

Your 12X can be upgraded to DSMX. Regarding "free-er and bett-er" - only if you're in a super noisy RF environment. Otherwise they're all equal.

Andy
AndyKunz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2018, 01:00 PM
  #15  
hpais
 
hpais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Issaquah, greater Seattle, WA
Posts: 112
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Smile Thank you RCUniverse for the edit button

Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
JR 12X, not Spektrum DX12. We never made one of those

Your 12X can be upgraded to DSMX. Regarding "free-er and bett-er" - only if you're in a super noisy RF environment. Otherwise they're all equal.

Andy
Hahaha! Thank you Andy, I corrected that. 12X indeed.
hpais is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2018, 06:27 PM
  #16  
Ron Stahl
My Feedback: (12)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: reisterstown, MD
Posts: 1,864
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
The upgrade of a 12X to DSMX is still being handled by Horizon Hobby.

Contact Product Service to start the process: https://www.horizonhobby.com/content...service-center

Tell them you want to upgrade your 12X to DSMX. They'll take it from there.

Andy
Thank you very much Andy. I spoke to HH today and at first I was told that they don't perform the upgrade and asked who told me that they did, and I gave them your name. Not 5 minutes later the same nice man called me back and said " Andy is correct we do still perform the DSMX upgrade here at HH even though the website says they don't support JR any longer. My radio will be going off ASAP for the upgrade, the price quoted was 25$ cheaper than JR America quoted me a month ago before they split up the service locations.


Last edited by Ron Stahl; 09-28-2018 at 06:31 PM.
Ron Stahl is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2018, 06:39 PM
  #17  
AndyKunz
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: White Heath, IL
Posts: 2,776
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

That's great!

Andy was smart enough to ask the guy who actually DOES the upgrade to see if he still did it. Glad it working out for you, Ron.

I used to drive through your area all the time. I lived off 301 just inside VA and would take 83 and 695 to travel up to NJ.

Andy
AndyKunz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2018, 07:19 AM
  #18  
c/f
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: evansville, IN
Posts: 803
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

As a fellow JR12X DSMX owner, here is a relevant post I just responded too.

Graupner radio reviews
c/f is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 05:42 PM
  #19  
KFX450
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (30)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampstead,NH
Posts: 607
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

So I havenít pulled the trigger on anything yet. But I ran into a situation with my 12x the past couple of days thats going to make me.

I maidened my ultra flash the other day, but set it up before I put a cortex gyro in it. After all the pain in the butt programming, control throws, mixes etc. I was left with one channel for my gain. AUX7. I didnít think about this before hand. I wanted to have my gain correspond to my flap switch for flight modes, cruise, mid and land, but could not do it with the AUX7 channel. I could only do it with I believe was AUX 2 or 3. So I had to make the gyro have a certain gain for all flight modes on a 2 position switch. Basically off and about 20%. I wasnít about to start pulling channels and start over. Lol.

Im also building another jet and putting smoke in it as well. I ran out of channels!! Could use a matchbox , but not sure if you can even buy em anymore.

So im gonna buy something. Iíll be back to post what I ended up with.
KFX450 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 06:09 PM
  #20  
Zeeb
My Feedback: (41)
 
Zeeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Highland Utah UT
Posts: 5,076
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by KFX450 View Post

Im also building another jet and putting smoke in it as well. I ran out of channels!! Could use a matchbox , but not sure if you can even buy em anymore.

So im gonna buy something. I’ll be back to post what I ended up with.
I probably have a few Matchboxes downstairs but they are not the solution to your problem, just a stop gap. I like my Futaba radios especially the 18SZ, but if used on bigger models I run PowerBox PE's with the on-board gyros like the Mercury. But that is a $500 solution plus you have to have a couple of R7003SB rx's which are a $100 each.

You go to the DX20 and you have access to the new PowerSafe rx's. NOBODY builds anything close to those new rx's. The 20 channel rx is $220, the little AS3000 module with the gyro is $65. 16g wire inputs to the rx, battery isolation, "Fail On" soft switch, forward programming and it'll work with your existing radio stuff.

Just a thought from someone who has both Spektrum and Futaba. For what it's worth, I started flying Futaba tx's with the PowerBox PE's when JR failed to come up with any decent follow up/upgrade to the 12X and I too needed more channels.... .
Zeeb is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2018, 08:37 AM
  #21  
Ron Stahl
My Feedback: (12)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: reisterstown, MD
Posts: 1,864
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Mines all done and on its way back to me as of today from HH for 50$ less than what JRA quoted me to do the same conversion to DSMX. No wonder that they went belly up of that's how they were doing business. In 45 years of flying this is the very first time any of my radios have been serviced.
Ron Stahl is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2018, 04:54 AM
  #22  
RCFlyerDan
My Feedback: (51)
 
RCFlyerDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cape Coral
Posts: 1,467
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I upgraded (thought it was an upgrade) from a 12X to the Jeti Carbon line Duplex 16. There are days in programming that I regret the decision to change. In one jet I have a Duplex 14 receiver back up by a R3 (3ch receiver) channel receiver. I have nothing fancy on the telemetry side, just the what the receiver will display, antennas, receiver voltage, etc. My second jet I am just finishing up and haven't done the maiden yet. I am using dual R3 receivers with a PowerBox Mercury SRS with GPS. The one thing that I was amazed at is being able to control up to 24 channels with a 3 channel receiver. There is all kinds of telemetry with it. You can still run out of channels too. I am using 14 channels of output out of the PB, controlled by 11 channels out of the Jeti. Something that I am still learning is that the PB I can only program 12 proportional channels of the 15 output channel pins of the 14 that I am using. I have 3 channels out just to do the gear and gear doors operated by one gear channel out. It has been a steep learning curve, and I have had a lot of different radios with the last the 12X. I agree with the guy that said it looks like a pizza box. It is about twice as heavy as the 12X, something that you get used to, and it is an ugly radio. Guess it looks modern to the Europeans. The whole reason that I bought it was to keep up on technology. I wanted the dual RF transmission and dual receiver reception. Which can be done two different ways for dual receivers. I don't want to be an old man that always needs help from others on programming. Good Luck with your decision.

Last edited by RCFlyerDan; 10-17-2018 at 05:05 AM.
RCFlyerDan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2018, 07:25 PM
  #23  
Ron Stahl
My Feedback: (12)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: reisterstown, MD
Posts: 1,864
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Got mine back today from HH great service turn around time. Less than a week out and back 75$ including shipping back to me.
Ron Stahl is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2018, 01:35 PM
  #24  
Art ARRO
My Feedback: (5)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Holland Patent, NY
Posts: 717
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hi Ron,
Glad Horizon was able to perform the conversion to DSMX from DSM2 on your JR 12X. . I'm still flying DSM2 with my JR X9303 with no problems at all. The radio was one of the first integrated 2.4 GHz systems here in the northeast. It has been successfully flown at numerous jet events including the Horizon Air Meet with over 60 pilots plus RC cars and helis at the same location. The radio has been installed and flown in a DL Aero Cyclone, Skymaster Gripen and a Boomerang with no glitches whatsoever- knock on wood. I actually prefer DSM2 since it allows use of the JR/Spektrum Flight Log to monitor fades, holds etc. DSMX does also but the fades are not reliable as it hops through the 2.5 band.
BTW, I STILL have not received the return of my defective JR ST-126 Servo sent to Horizon and forwarded to JRSA last August for service or replacement under their 3 year warranty. The latest feedback from JRSA is that JR Propo is out of business and JRSA does not have any parts for repair/replacement of their radios. And they tout themselves as a service center .Ha!!!
Rgds,
Art ARRO
Art ARRO is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2018, 01:52 PM
  #25  
KFX450
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (30)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampstead,NH
Posts: 607
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Ya I recently sent some 8711ís in for service. They never came back. No parts to fix it. Shame. Great servos.
KFX450 is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service