Multiplex Radios
06-04-2002, 01:34 PM
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Hi All
Is anyone using Multiplex transmitters out there, if so what is your thoughts on them. I have a JR 10X that has been nothing but trouble since day one, it is in for repair now, for the fourth or fifth time.
Thanks
Bill
Is anyone using Multiplex transmitters out there, if so what is your thoughts on them. I have a JR 10X that has been nothing but trouble since day one, it is in for repair now, for the fourth or fifth time.
Thanks
Bill
06-04-2002, 05:18 PM
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I own a 3030. When new, the receiver had a vibration sensitive filter which was fixed under warranty. This took about 6 months of back and forth with the service department, which was discouraging but now seems to be solved. The transmitter is very flexible and doesn't have a million switches sticking out the sides like an Asian unit. Easily upgradable. No digital trims and no stick spring adjustment, which is a bit of a bummer. I fly Hitec receivers with mine since I am partial to them. The transmitter has a very long antenna which takes a little getting used to and the styling is definitely, er.., different, but I'm starting to warm up to mine and think it is now a keeper.
Rein
Rein
06-04-2002, 06:30 PM
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Just look back over the past few weeks posts with Multiplex somewhere in the title, or do a search, and you will see why those of us who have it think it is miles better than the Japanese chrome hedgehogs and their restrictive programming.
Harry
Harry
06-05-2002, 12:23 PM
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Whidbey, what do you want to use the radio for?
As a rough guide, Mpx produce Txs called the Pico, Cockpit, Europa, 3010, 3030, 4000, as well as some others specifically for cars. You can ignore the Europa as it is a computer but behind the times now and more aimed at land/water craft, and the Pico is non-computer. If you have a JR10 I doubt the Cockpit will be of interest. That leaves the 3010, 3030 and 4000. The 3010 is a restricted 3030 so not worth bothering with, that leaves the 3030 (9 channels) and 4000 (12 channels). Please note that when Mpx tell you the number of channels, you get exactly what it says on the box - that number of equal proportional channels, unlike Futaba's dishonest 9ZAP which should be renamed the 8+1 ZAP under the trades descriptions laws.
Now just to complicate matters, next month should see the release of the new Royal Evo 9 channel, and by winter the Royal Evo 12 channel. In terms of features it seems to be nearer to the 3030 than to the 4000. I have briefly had my hands on the Royal Evo and it is GORGEOUS to program, but I have a couple of doubts yet about some features on my 3030 being carried on to the RE (servo speed control and software switching), the Mpx staff either did not know or were a bit cagey about it. However it is a fabulous radio, with internet download of software upgrades, options on synthesised frequencies (check if available in your country though), buddy box to Mpx, Futaba and JR, and so on. Take a look at www.modelspot.com for more info.
Meanwhile, the 3030 and 4000 remain the best you can get. And I don't mean that they are the best Multiplex that you can get, I mean they are the best Tx you can get on this planet, end of story. The 3030 kicks the 9ZAP down into the 3rd division and the 4000 is simply in the top league on its own. If you have either of them after a JR10 you will feel like a prisoner of the Soviet Union released back into Western freedom, such is the amount of user control that Mpx gives to you. When you buy it the sticks and sliders and switches don't even have any functions asigned to them, you do that yourself. If you really want the right stick to be retract and a switch to be elevator, you can do it as easily as making the stick to be elevator and a switch to be retract, Mpx factory makes no restrictive assumptions about what you want the radio to be. It is up to you to assign the function that you want to every stick, every slider, every switch.
Disadvantages are that the 3030 only sends mpx servo timing so all centres and travels have to be corrected to suit non-Mpx servos, and the 4000 has so much that programming it can overwhelm some people. The other thing that puts people off is that freedom means you have to work and make decisions yourself. Some people prefer being told what they are allowed to do, nothing else is allowed, and to have all their functions and switches pre-made. These people buy the japanese radios and are quite happy. Some of us prefer to write our own Txs, to make them unique to our requirements in a way that is unheard of in JR/Futaba and we are prepared to do the work and use our imagination and cunning to make the Txs do quite astounding things. Such people buy Mpx. Don't buy Mpx and expect it to come with a throttle kill switch ready made, etc, etc. If you want something you program it. See http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...359&forumid=27 for an idea what you can do inside just one Mpx mixer.
I use a 3030 with Jr Rx and JR servos, you just alter centre and travel once in a master memory and then copy it into each new memory as you create it, it's not a problem.
For anyone interested, to convert Mpx 3030 to work properly with non-Mpx servos is centre minus9% and travels to 72% both ways. Do this in servo menus, not control menus.
Harryy
As a rough guide, Mpx produce Txs called the Pico, Cockpit, Europa, 3010, 3030, 4000, as well as some others specifically for cars. You can ignore the Europa as it is a computer but behind the times now and more aimed at land/water craft, and the Pico is non-computer. If you have a JR10 I doubt the Cockpit will be of interest. That leaves the 3010, 3030 and 4000. The 3010 is a restricted 3030 so not worth bothering with, that leaves the 3030 (9 channels) and 4000 (12 channels). Please note that when Mpx tell you the number of channels, you get exactly what it says on the box - that number of equal proportional channels, unlike Futaba's dishonest 9ZAP which should be renamed the 8+1 ZAP under the trades descriptions laws.
Now just to complicate matters, next month should see the release of the new Royal Evo 9 channel, and by winter the Royal Evo 12 channel. In terms of features it seems to be nearer to the 3030 than to the 4000. I have briefly had my hands on the Royal Evo and it is GORGEOUS to program, but I have a couple of doubts yet about some features on my 3030 being carried on to the RE (servo speed control and software switching), the Mpx staff either did not know or were a bit cagey about it. However it is a fabulous radio, with internet download of software upgrades, options on synthesised frequencies (check if available in your country though), buddy box to Mpx, Futaba and JR, and so on. Take a look at www.modelspot.com for more info.
Meanwhile, the 3030 and 4000 remain the best you can get. And I don't mean that they are the best Multiplex that you can get, I mean they are the best Tx you can get on this planet, end of story. The 3030 kicks the 9ZAP down into the 3rd division and the 4000 is simply in the top league on its own. If you have either of them after a JR10 you will feel like a prisoner of the Soviet Union released back into Western freedom, such is the amount of user control that Mpx gives to you. When you buy it the sticks and sliders and switches don't even have any functions asigned to them, you do that yourself. If you really want the right stick to be retract and a switch to be elevator, you can do it as easily as making the stick to be elevator and a switch to be retract, Mpx factory makes no restrictive assumptions about what you want the radio to be. It is up to you to assign the function that you want to every stick, every slider, every switch.
Disadvantages are that the 3030 only sends mpx servo timing so all centres and travels have to be corrected to suit non-Mpx servos, and the 4000 has so much that programming it can overwhelm some people. The other thing that puts people off is that freedom means you have to work and make decisions yourself. Some people prefer being told what they are allowed to do, nothing else is allowed, and to have all their functions and switches pre-made. These people buy the japanese radios and are quite happy. Some of us prefer to write our own Txs, to make them unique to our requirements in a way that is unheard of in JR/Futaba and we are prepared to do the work and use our imagination and cunning to make the Txs do quite astounding things. Such people buy Mpx. Don't buy Mpx and expect it to come with a throttle kill switch ready made, etc, etc. If you want something you program it. See http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...359&forumid=27 for an idea what you can do inside just one Mpx mixer.
I use a 3030 with Jr Rx and JR servos, you just alter centre and travel once in a master memory and then copy it into each new memory as you create it, it's not a problem.
For anyone interested, to convert Mpx 3030 to work properly with non-Mpx servos is centre minus9% and travels to 72% both ways. Do this in servo menus, not control menus.
Harryy
06-05-2002, 03:16 PM
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Hi Harry,
I understand that MPX servos have a centering pulsewidth of 1.6 ms, thus the reason for the center offset when using Asian servos. But why do you have to set the travel to 72%? Is the overall servo pulsewidth that much shorter for the Asian servos? Thanks for any reply.
Rein
I understand that MPX servos have a centering pulsewidth of 1.6 ms, thus the reason for the center offset when using Asian servos. But why do you have to set the travel to 72%? Is the overall servo pulsewidth that much shorter for the Asian servos? Thanks for any reply.
Rein
06-05-2002, 04:07 PM
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Yes, the Mpx pulse at the ends of travel are not 1ms and 2ms, it is a longer pulse. I have found on JR servos that an Mpx 3030 can go to 99% travel at which point the JR servo is just touching its mechanical end stop.
So on a 3030, 72% on a non-mpx servo is equivalent to 100% on a non-mpx tx driving a non-mpx servo. I set up one master memory with all assignments, timers, rates etc for a basic 4 channel model then simply copy and adapt it as required to create each new model, but do beware if you set a servo to 72% and then assign it to a mixer it re-sets to 100%. However, if you buy an Mpx servo with uni plug, it is timed as per everyone else so with these Mpx servos you still need to alter centres and travels. It is only Mpx servos with Mpx plugs that can be left unaltered in the 3030.
This problem does not occur on the Cockpit, 4000 or Royal Evo as these are newer designs and include a software option for Mpx or "uni" servo timing.
It sounds like a hassle but in reality I don't even notice doing any work to alter servo centres and travels. I was fully aware of it before I bought the 3030. I would not change my 3030 for anything, even the Royal Evo 12 channel synthesiser will have a hard time persuading me it is any better than my truly beloved 3030.
Harry
So on a 3030, 72% on a non-mpx servo is equivalent to 100% on a non-mpx tx driving a non-mpx servo. I set up one master memory with all assignments, timers, rates etc for a basic 4 channel model then simply copy and adapt it as required to create each new model, but do beware if you set a servo to 72% and then assign it to a mixer it re-sets to 100%. However, if you buy an Mpx servo with uni plug, it is timed as per everyone else so with these Mpx servos you still need to alter centres and travels. It is only Mpx servos with Mpx plugs that can be left unaltered in the 3030.
This problem does not occur on the Cockpit, 4000 or Royal Evo as these are newer designs and include a software option for Mpx or "uni" servo timing.
It sounds like a hassle but in reality I don't even notice doing any work to alter servo centres and travels. I was fully aware of it before I bought the 3030. I would not change my 3030 for anything, even the Royal Evo 12 channel synthesiser will have a hard time persuading me it is any better than my truly beloved 3030.
Harry
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06-05-2002, 08:25 PM
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Rein, a centre of minus 9% and travel each way of 72% makes the servo match a Futaba/JR Tx at centre zero and travel 100%.
A servo's normal travel is well short of its mechanical limit.
With a Futaba/JR Tx a servo can travel beyond the normal ends of the stick movement, and you can turn up the travel beyond 100% to something like 120%. The reason it is not made to travel that far as standard is that due to the rotary motion, once the servo has turned a certain distance turning it any further gives mostly side to side motion instead of fore and aft on the pushrod.
Using a "uni" servo with the 3030 trying to send a wider pulse, would mean the servo reaching the normal travel end some time before the stick on the Tx reaches the end. By the time the stick reaches its end, the servo is well beyond its normal 100% travel, having reached what would be about 120 -130% ish on a Futaba/JR tx. This risks driving a servo into its mechanical stop, perhaps damaging it and drawing excessive current.
When I bought my 3030 all my models had JR/Futaba servos and all the linkages were set for that travel, so matching the Mpx to the travel made sense. Even on a new model it makes sense to match the travel since beyond Mpx 72%/JR100% most servo motion is lost, and it does allow for the travel to be turned up a little bit if needed, e.g. if need 85% Mpx to get the idle to stop the engine.
Harry
A servo's normal travel is well short of its mechanical limit.
With a Futaba/JR Tx a servo can travel beyond the normal ends of the stick movement, and you can turn up the travel beyond 100% to something like 120%. The reason it is not made to travel that far as standard is that due to the rotary motion, once the servo has turned a certain distance turning it any further gives mostly side to side motion instead of fore and aft on the pushrod.
Using a "uni" servo with the 3030 trying to send a wider pulse, would mean the servo reaching the normal travel end some time before the stick on the Tx reaches the end. By the time the stick reaches its end, the servo is well beyond its normal 100% travel, having reached what would be about 120 -130% ish on a Futaba/JR tx. This risks driving a servo into its mechanical stop, perhaps damaging it and drawing excessive current.
When I bought my 3030 all my models had JR/Futaba servos and all the linkages were set for that travel, so matching the Mpx to the travel made sense. Even on a new model it makes sense to match the travel since beyond Mpx 72%/JR100% most servo motion is lost, and it does allow for the travel to be turned up a little bit if needed, e.g. if need 85% Mpx to get the idle to stop the engine.
Harry
06-05-2002, 09:06 PM
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I have been using Multiplex radios for over 20 years, I started with the Profi 2000, then I went with the Royal Extert, then the 3030 and now the 4000.
My 20 year old Profi 2000 is still very usable and can control airplanes, helicopters, Gliders etc. Very much ahead of its time.
The receivers I still have are PPM, PCM, and now IPD. With the IPD's, I have retired my other receivers.
By the way, if anybody wants Multiplex PCM receivers, I have two of them that I could part with. On 72 mgz North America.
My 20 year old Profi 2000 is still very usable and can control airplanes, helicopters, Gliders etc. Very much ahead of its time.
The receivers I still have are PPM, PCM, and now IPD. With the IPD's, I have retired my other receivers.
By the way, if anybody wants Multiplex PCM receivers, I have two of them that I could part with. On 72 mgz North America.
06-05-2002, 10:04 PM
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I do not know the full line of JR radios, but a friend of mine owns one and the battery duration is 0f 2 hours with an 8 cell pack of 1400mAH. My 3030 with a 6 cell pack of 1700mAH gives me more than 8 hours of duration. Many times I go flying without bothering to charge my transmiter while my friend has had many problems with this battery duration.
06-06-2002, 08:24 AM
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An excellent program to connect your 3030 to PC or to a Mac is called sMPX and is available at http://www.sea-gull.demon.co.uk/, follow the "programs" link. I bought this when I bought my 3030 and made the connect lead with transistors rather than the version with an ic chip.
As well as providing back-up and restore facilities, it allows you to put your name on the Tx display in place of the software version line which gives you a bit more security and identification, it allows you to rename models with lower case letters instead of all capitals and send that revised name back to the Tx display, e.g. Chipmunk instead of CHIPMUNK, and you can print out the entire data set for a memory so if you have a complex set-up you can see exactly what the Tx will do and check for any mismatches, especially where you have re-assigned servos to a mixer. The back-up and restore functions can be applied to a single memory or to all memories at once. No changes to any of the settings are allowed by sMPX, all programming must still be done on the Tx so there is no risk of accidentally altering the data held on your PC. I can thoroughly recommend getting sMPX if you have a 3030.
The Seagull site also has the diagram to make your own rev counter to plug into the 3030, this can be difficult and expensive to get hold of from Mpx.
I do a regular back-up to PC, just in case my 3030 should ever be damaged, breakdown, corrupted by mobile phone, be stolen and replaced etc etc, I will just get the new/repaired one and restore all my models to it as if nothing had happened.
If you don't already know about it, Mike Shellim's site at http://www.rc-soar.com/index.html has a programming manual for 3030 users for you to download, to which I made some small contributions biased towards power fliers mixers, and details of how to get the plugs to make your own switch harnesses for about 1/6 the price of the Mpx switch's retail price.
JoanC, I concur with your experience of the 3030's endurance, mine has a 1300 which runs for about 5 hours.
Harry
As well as providing back-up and restore facilities, it allows you to put your name on the Tx display in place of the software version line which gives you a bit more security and identification, it allows you to rename models with lower case letters instead of all capitals and send that revised name back to the Tx display, e.g. Chipmunk instead of CHIPMUNK, and you can print out the entire data set for a memory so if you have a complex set-up you can see exactly what the Tx will do and check for any mismatches, especially where you have re-assigned servos to a mixer. The back-up and restore functions can be applied to a single memory or to all memories at once. No changes to any of the settings are allowed by sMPX, all programming must still be done on the Tx so there is no risk of accidentally altering the data held on your PC. I can thoroughly recommend getting sMPX if you have a 3030.
The Seagull site also has the diagram to make your own rev counter to plug into the 3030, this can be difficult and expensive to get hold of from Mpx.
I do a regular back-up to PC, just in case my 3030 should ever be damaged, breakdown, corrupted by mobile phone, be stolen and replaced etc etc, I will just get the new/repaired one and restore all my models to it as if nothing had happened.
If you don't already know about it, Mike Shellim's site at http://www.rc-soar.com/index.html has a programming manual for 3030 users for you to download, to which I made some small contributions biased towards power fliers mixers, and details of how to get the plugs to make your own switch harnesses for about 1/6 the price of the Mpx switch's retail price.
JoanC, I concur with your experience of the 3030's endurance, mine has a 1300 which runs for about 5 hours.
Harry
06-06-2002, 09:21 AM
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Harry
The site you refer to in your post has some reviews of Mpx radio's on it. Some adverse comment is made about "friction" in the Mpx stick assemblies in the Cockpit and 3030 reviews. It is suggested by the reviewers that the Mpx sticks are not quite as good as the best Japanese assemblies.
Do you agree? Does the RE use the same stick assemblies as the radio's reviewed? I know that radio "feel" is a "personal" thing, but I'd like your comments on this. The sticks on my Airtronics radio are as smooth as silk. I'd hate to give that up.
fiery
The site you refer to in your post has some reviews of Mpx radio's on it. Some adverse comment is made about "friction" in the Mpx stick assemblies in the Cockpit and 3030 reviews. It is suggested by the reviewers that the Mpx sticks are not quite as good as the best Japanese assemblies.
Do you agree? Does the RE use the same stick assemblies as the radio's reviewed? I know that radio "feel" is a "personal" thing, but I'd like your comments on this. The sticks on my Airtronics radio are as smooth as silk. I'd hate to give that up.
fiery
06-06-2002, 09:56 AM
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Fiery, stick feel is so subjective I can't give an answer! After decades of using Futaba, the first time I felt a JR stick I thought WOW it's so silky smooth. After flying with it for a while I thought it was just draggy, not silky, and lacking feel. After flying with it for a long time I got used to it and the Futaba sticks became the odd feeling. Perhaps its just a case of preferring what you are used to, and can therefore get used to any sort. My 3030 sticks are not the slightest bit draggy, I would say they feel more like Futaba than JR, and I am perfectly happy with them. I find them very free and accurate. I have owned radios by OS, (that tells you how far back I started model flying!), Futaba, JR, Sanwa (Airtronics) and Multiplex and to be honest stick feel never figured in my list of wishes or problems, it was always just something I got used to.
I didn't have long enough with the RE to evaluate the stick feel, I was more interested in the fabulous programming system. It is an extremely comfortable set to hold, I think their ergonomics has leaped ahead of the Japanese sets. What you can't see in the photos is the rounded sides and very deep finger wells in the back so it has an SLR camera grip feeling, and the rotatable sticks is just the icing on the cake. Frankly I would not care what the sticks felt like, I would get used to almost anything in order to have the RE. If it wasn't for the fact I am engaged to be married to my 3030 I would have placed an order for the RE on the spot! It is something else.
Harry
I didn't have long enough with the RE to evaluate the stick feel, I was more interested in the fabulous programming system. It is an extremely comfortable set to hold, I think their ergonomics has leaped ahead of the Japanese sets. What you can't see in the photos is the rounded sides and very deep finger wells in the back so it has an SLR camera grip feeling, and the rotatable sticks is just the icing on the cake. Frankly I would not care what the sticks felt like, I would get used to almost anything in order to have the RE. If it wasn't for the fact I am engaged to be married to my 3030 I would have placed an order for the RE on the spot! It is something else.
Harry
06-06-2002, 08:17 PM
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Thanks Harry. I know what you mean.
Glad to hear of the pending nuptials!
I shouldn't pull your leg though, I have a date later this year with Miss RE (woohoo!). Once she arrives on our shores, we'll meet one to one (with a chaperone of course), and I am told that I have a good chance of getting get my hands all over her! ...
Can't wait for that one!
fiery
Glad to hear of the pending nuptials!
I shouldn't pull your leg though, I have a date later this year with Miss RE (woohoo!). Once she arrives on our shores, we'll meet one to one (with a chaperone of course), and I am told that I have a good chance of getting get my hands all over her! ...
Can't wait for that one!
fiery
06-06-2002, 09:25 PM
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Price depends where you are, I get the impression you pay more for Mpx in the USA than we do in the UK, and we pay more than they do in Germany. A German shop's website has the RE9 vario (vario means Tx and Rx) for 450 euros (£280)and an RE 12 vario for 690 euros (£430). These will be basic Txs, not with synthesiser and scanners.
A UK shop's website has the RE9 vario priced at £360 compared to Germany's £280, or £338 for the RE9 Tx only and £482 for the Re12 Tx only, not clear if synthesised version or ordinary.
They are claiming £599 for the RE12 synth with 12 channel synth IPD Rx, in comparison we pay £1000 for a Futaba 8+1ZAP with PCM Rx.
These prices might alter when the beast actually arrives but in the UK Mpx prices trash our overcharged Futaba and JR prices. What we pay for a Futaba 8+1C Tx only will buy you the whole set in the USA.
Harry
A UK shop's website has the RE9 vario priced at £360 compared to Germany's £280, or £338 for the RE9 Tx only and £482 for the Re12 Tx only, not clear if synthesised version or ordinary.
They are claiming £599 for the RE12 synth with 12 channel synth IPD Rx, in comparison we pay £1000 for a Futaba 8+1ZAP with PCM Rx.
These prices might alter when the beast actually arrives but in the UK Mpx prices trash our overcharged Futaba and JR prices. What we pay for a Futaba 8+1C Tx only will buy you the whole set in the USA.
Harry
06-06-2002, 09:33 PM
#22
Royal Evo prices
In Germany Multiplex has listed the following prices :
Royal Evo 9 channel TX : 469.- Euro
Chrystal TX module : 79.- Euro
Synthesized TX module : 139.- Euro
Royal Evo 12 channel TX : 699.- Euro
prices for the modules are the same as for the 9-channel TX
1 Euro = 0.95 US$
Michael
Royal Evo 9 channel TX : 469.- Euro
Chrystal TX module : 79.- Euro
Synthesized TX module : 139.- Euro
Royal Evo 12 channel TX : 699.- Euro
prices for the modules are the same as for the 9-channel TX
1 Euro = 0.95 US$
Michael
06-06-2002, 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by AJF--2
Does anybody have a clue as to how much the EVO will be going for? I know sometimes companies will establish a "ballpark" figure to feel out the market.
Does anybody have a clue as to how much the EVO will be going for? I know sometimes companies will establish a "ballpark" figure to feel out the market.
I allready have the list price, but there are different models
The Royal Evo 9 set with HFM. $513.10 USD
The Royal Evo 9 set with HFM-S $598.75 USD
The Royal Evo 12 set with HFM-S $855.73 USD
These are TX's and are only suggested list price by the factory. The actual prices could be a bit less when they become availlable here in North America.
