mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

I keep hearing about this but nothing concrete (no first hand witnesses)

Has anyone heard anything lately?

TIA

thomasb

How about 31 channels on a Futaba 8U?

http://www.vantec.com/keyov.htm

e-sailpilot86

I heard someone say that a Futaba 12Z would be coming out, and that was why he was waiting on buying a top-notch transmitter. He might have heard the same rumor. I asked about future transmitters just being curious at the time, knowing Futaba was one channel behind JR. I'm guessing that the "12Z" may have been my 9C, if not, COOL! Now when will PCM 2048 be coming out...

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

If you want 12 channels, you should look at Multiplex, they have had one for quite sometimes now

http://www.rc-soar.com/mpx4000/review.htm

e-sailpilot86

I know some people like the multiplex transmitters, but how do they compare in comfort? I don't think I'd mind entirely, but comare a 9C or Z and a multiplex box transmitter layout... I would like the 9Z screen and computer technology as well as the tach, airspeed and rx battery voltage monitor (two way communication... ). And, I like the mc4000 versatility, computer link, channel scanning, as well as it's mixing capability. There are trade offs, but if I were to get a 12 channel, and I wanted the Futaba transmitter, I could wait.

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

I find the MC 4000 very comfortable, but then I use a tray system the way the transmitter was designed for.
My friend is using the MC 3030 hand held with the neck strap and he likes it very much.
The nice thing about Multiplex is there TX's are not full of chrome and clutered with a multitude of switches.
As for versatility, none comes close.

e-sailpilot86

Well then, I'll have to hold one and see what it's like...
Are the knobs, sliders and switches in reach? You've caught my interest in this Tx.
Is the Graupner MC-24 considered having a multitude of switches?

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

Everything is very well organized but with the tray system. I don't know how they would fair by holding the TX in your hands as you would others, I haven't tried it in this way.
As for the Graupner MC24, a very good radio but manufactured by the Japanese for the European market, it's either a JR or Futaba. Multiplex is totally designed and manufactured in house in Germany.
The North American market likes their bells and whistle while the European are not as fussy on all those bells and whistles.

bob_nj

My Feedback: (62)

Ann Marie seems to answer this question in a round about way. Do a control "F" for flagship on page two if you don't want to read the whole thread.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...light=flagship]

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Would a Futaba 12 channel would be like their other products - 8 channels with extra switches masquerading as channels and only if you are using PCM?

I have the Multiplex 3030 and the 4000 (anyone want to buy a fully loaded 3030?). I, and all the others at my club with Mpx do not use trays, we all hand hold them and find them at least as, if not more, comfortable than the deep narrow Japanese boxes.

However if you want a Jap style box with 12 channels, the Mpx Royal Evo will be in the shops soon, with much more pre-set programming. When I said I preferred the openness of my 3030/4000 the chap from Mpx said, and I quote "This is aimed at the 9Z mentality".

The Mpx 4000 remains the Daddy of them all though, the Royal Evo is more of a 3030 replacement. Never mind the extra channels, nothing made by Futaba or JR comes anywhere near the 4000's open programmability.

Harry

Steve Campbell2

>

If you're saying that Multiplex is a great deal more versatile than a 9Z, then you have either never used a 9Z to any degree or are parroting a company line.

A friend has an upper-tier Multiplex radio that he flies his jets and other assorted multi-function models with. I'm not familiar with the different Multiplex models, so I don't know which one it is. My friend said it is one of the high-end versions.

This radio is very nice, does many things, and indeed does not look as "busy" as the Japanese radio. But MORE versatile? Hardly.

I used upper-tier JR computer radios for ten years. When I finally wised up and switched to the 9Z earlier this year, the utter superiority and tons more features of it left me almost speechless. Talk about not being in the same league...

I am not denigrating MultiPlex. And there may indeed be some things it does that the 9Z won't. But to say that a 9Z isn't close to MultiPlex, in terms of flexibility and features, is simply absurd.

Steve

brc007

My Feedback: (1)

e-sailpilot86,
I have a 9Z and it does NOT have two way communication between the RX and TX via radio. What it does have is the ability to plug a "DSC" cord from the 9Z to the RX and check the RX battery voltage, and control the servos with out transmitting.
Just wanted to let you know.

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

The 9Z is a fine radio and very powerful, but it is limited compared to the 4000. How about 50% more proportional channels for a start? Mine also has a full band scanner and channel check (shoot-down prevention) built in. Fit whatever types of switches and push buttons that you want, and even then don't accept the mechanical switch as it comes but assign a software emulation of a different kind of mechanical switch to it. Multiplex "problem" is that it comes like an Excel spreadsheet - blank - and that phases the people who just want to switch on and go and accept the limitations. It is up to you to program it to be what you want, and that does not suit a lot of people. Some people can cope with the basics but can get nowhere near its full potential and are incapable of demonstrating the sheer power of the beast. But for those of us who can solve our requirements and program it, the Mpx knocks the 9Z out of the way. For those who want a powerful but limited radio, Mpx is bringing out the Royal Evo aimed directly at "the 9Z mentality".

Harry

e-sailpilot86

Ah, okay. Futaba wasn't too clear that it needed the DSC cord. If it does say that anywhere, it's on some FAQ sheet that I haven't read. Thanks for telling! Hmm, but that's an idea for a future radio...

Now that I know the Mpx radios are just fine in handling, I don't mind them. There are some complaints I have about the Futaba 9C other than it's short knobs (They're okay for me). It's how the gimbal stick is sunk in the transmitter, and I'm a thumb/forefinger at the base controller. When I move the stick to the upper right which isn't too uncommon, my forefinger gets in the way! I can't stand that! My older skysport doesn't have that problem, but I've learned to move my forefinger up higher. I'm sure I'd like the multiplex, I just need to handle one. One reason to stick with futaba is the futaba gear I have...

I don't understand the 50% more proportional channels. My 9C has as many as 8 proportional channels... Do you mean resolution?

can773

My Feedback: (1)

50% of 8 is 4......4+8=12 proportional channels not sure what the point of that many is for most people.

e-sailpilot86

I haven't found the need for 12 proportional channels yet either, maybe a scale aircraft or a big aerobatic plane. Anyway, does anyone know about the futaba 12 channel transmitter? I'm wondering if contacting Futaba would result in some leaked information about this thing we've heard about...

can773

My Feedback: (1)

I would not hold much faith in what you hear about a 12Z. The 9ZAP was just recently updated as the WC2 so it is doubtfull they would replace it so early. I have not heard anything "officially" from Futaba about a 12 CH version of the ZAP.

Chad

Team Futaba

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

HarryC,

By your repeated reference to "the 9Z mentality" I assume you either have an axe to grind with Futaba or the 9Z. No problem; we all have our pet peeves...

And as to our 'debate', I suppose it all depends upon one's definition of versatile. Not being fully cognizant of the MultiPlex line, I am at somewhat of a disadvantage. I'll take your word about the superior programming ability; and the frequency checker is indeed a unique and handy feature.

My point was that the 9Z has the capability of allowing one to create just about any type of control response/interaction, IN ANY TYPE OF MODEL, one could dream up. Once a 9Z user buys into and understands the idea of flight conditions, and learns all the acronyms on the three menus, making a model do what you want it to is no big deal. From what you are saying, it seems to me that before you can do that with a MultiPlex, you first have to tell it HOW to do what you want, due to the "blank sheet" you spoke of. Again, I'm not being a smart-ass here; just interpreting your words. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

And the point about how much is enough is another valid one to consider. I would wager that most 9Z users (me included) use less than 40% of the radio's capabilities.

But I try to keep an open mind. So convince me. How about an example of something control-related that your MultiPlex can do and my 9Z cannot?

Steve

Scott G

HarryC,

I was planning on getting the Evo9 when it hits the States this fall. But reading your post it sounds like it is not quite as powerful as the 4000. Can you point me to a website or give me a quick break-down on the differences so I can make a better decision... ?

Thanks for any info,
Scott

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

I quite agree, there comes a point where more of something is of no practical use, you just end up buying "gee-whizz" rather than real help. To most of us 12 channels is of no help, the max I use at the moment is 8, but there are people who do need all that extra, that's why JR sells the matchbox for Y-leading servos when you run out of channels (maximum 8 in Futaba and 10 in JR) and there are jets and gliders that will happily guzzle all 12 channels.

As for a practical use/benefit of the 4000's more open programming compared to the 9Z, I am still trying to think of some for the real world other than some bizarre esoteric use! Most of the experience in programming the 4000 is in gliding with all sorts of mixing and special effects in use for 4, and even 8 servo wings, since Mpx totally dominates European gliding competitions (UK magazine did survey of Tx compound last year and found 80% Multiplex). I was at the UK nationals yesterday and was pleasantly surprised how many of the scale fliers (including previous World Champions) were using Mpx. It seems to be in aerobatics and in North America that Mpx just has not made any inroads and I don't think that Mpx cares!

One thing the 4000 can do is P51 Mustang door and gear sequencing all in the Tx. Use a powerful proportional servo for mechanical retracts (I did this on the twist and turns on a P40 and with servo speed control it looks fantastic), and a door servo. The 4000 can be programmed so that on switch down the inner doors open, the legs come slowly down and when fully down the doors close again. On switch up the doors open, legs slowly up and when fully up the doors close again. Of course on activating throtle closed/kill, the doors fall open. Not sure if the 9Z can do all of that, maybe it can. It might hit the channel limit if it can be programmed? Thr, ele, rud, 2xail, 2x flap, gear and door = 9 channels, perhaps the 2 position doors can use the 9th channel as long as you are using PCM?

The Mpx 3030 can do most of the above, but can't close the doors when legs fully down.

Harry

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Have a look at www.modelspot.com and www.rc-soar.com/mpxevo/index.htm and www.flairproducts.co.uk

We are still awaiting the final production version so it could be a bit different to the ones we have seen, but it seems that it will not have all the software switching and emulations of the 4000, nor the almost infinite mixing and cascading of mixing, priority switching of mixing. You get fewer inputs per servo (5 compared to 4000's eight inputs and 4 inputs on the 3030). Beyond that the 4000 has 3 stand-alone mixers with 8 inputs which can be cascaded before going to the servo mixer input so in theory there are 29 control inputs can be mixed to each servo in the 4000 which is probably 1 or 2 more than most people will need! I don't know if the RE has the control of trim gain, trim centre/standard bias etc. The 4000 can select 3 point, 5, 7, 9, or 13 point curves per servo, don't think the RE has that much choice. 3030 has control speed control up to 10 seconds, the 4000 has servo speed control and control speed control up to 25 seconds, not sure what the RE has but seems to be much less than the 4000. Whether you need all of that extra power is of course debatable! In terms of features and power the RE is somewhere between the 3030 and 4000 but closer to the 3030 though of course a 12 channel version will be available. Having said that, the 3030 is an immensely powerful radio so there is nothing the matter with having a 21st Century version of it! The 4000 has switch for Mpx or other servo timing but it is centre timing only, the travel still needs to be adjusted for non-Mpx servos (the switch alters timing from 1.05-2.15ms to 0.95-2.05ms) I hope the RE's "uni" timing alters the travel as well as centre, i.e to 1-2ms though I note that JR uses 1.1 - 1.9ms as standard 100% travel. Maybe Futaba does as well?

What the RE does have is digi trims in an easily reached place well removed from the sticks, internet download of upgrades, supposedly buddy-box compatible to JR and Futaba, full PC connection for back-up and release of Tx memories if required, quick entry keypad based on mobile phone concept of 3-4 characters per key and fast entry to menus, not one but 2 digi-adjustors which can be re-assigned as controls or left open to adjust 2 different programming parameters whilst in flight instead of just one as with the 3030/4000. When I got my hands on it (pre-production version) I only had a couple of minutes to play with programming but it did seem superbly laid out. It comes with more ready-programmed set-ups than the 3030 and 4000 to get you started more quickly. It is in a box which I thought was the most comfy Tx I have ever held but that's very much a matter of personal choice. A little later Mpx will release the frequency synthesiser module for the Tx, and the synthesised Rxs.

Harry

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Can the 9Z alter the time when a mix takes effect? Some of my scale models pitch up quite a bit several seconds after the throttle is opened as the speed starts to rise. A conventional throttle to elevator mix kicks in the moment the throttle is open so trims down before the trim is needed a few seconds later. I program the 4000 in a way that the down trim mix does not have an effect until a few seconds after the throttle is changed and the speed has started to rise, but the up trim on closing the throttle happens much more quickly though still not instantly. This gives a much smoother flight path with throttle changes than is available with standard mixing, if the model has some considerable delay between throttle change and pitch change.

Harry

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

The 9Z has a delay feature which affects how quickly a servo reacts when a control input is made. Not sure if has the ability to do something like sequencing gear doors; I'm still learning this puppy.

I hear you regarding sailplanes. That is indeed a complicated area, even more so than helicopters when one gets up into the multi-servo wings. But I was referring to the everyday sport flyer; what you guys would refer to as a "clubman", or perhaps a "plonker"???<G>

>

No doubt. The German firm of Robbe, which markets one of the best overall model helicopter lines (Schluter) extant, has made it equally clear they are not the least bit concerned about the US market. One reason, I'm sure, is because US customers are accustomed to getting what they want, and will squawk loudly (as opposed to passively accepting whatever crumbs the vendor deigns to pass out) when their needs/wants are not addressed. This upsets the German sense of propriety (how DARE you question what we do/produce?) quite a bit. Europeans find it amusing to brand Americans as arrogant. Right; but Germans invented the word.

Sorry to have slipped into a political discussion, but it (politics) is an unfortunate fact of life. As another example, MultiPlex's image was not done any favors when the US importer (a fellow named Carlton Spindle) basically spammed everybody on the old RCO with his blatant marketing. That, and his being big buddies with Ed Walker, didn't do him or MultiPlex much good down the road.

I don't know this fellow (Spindle), or even if he is still involved with MultiPlex. But I well remember the generally high level of annoyance with him and his ads disguised as posts.

Anyway, you're correct in that MultiPlex is not "popular" in the US, for whatever reasons. And with the ever-expanding philosophy over here of instant gratification, I feel certain that MultiPlex will remain somewhat obscure; found only in the hands of a few hard-core modelers who want what it offers and are willing to pay for it.

Steve

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Steve, I doubt if the average clubman needs a 9Z any more than he needs an Mpx 4000! Still, I and 2 others in my club are just weekenders but have 4000s and there are a few with 3030s.

Another thing I program the 4000 to do is alter the aileron travel to be non-symmetrical depending upon throttle setting. I do this on pattern aerobats to equalise the roll rates left and right, compensating for torque. At low power the travels are equal, through the mid-range the overall travel is slightly reduced to keep the roll response constant and made to travel ever so slightly less left than right, and at the top the overall travel is again slightly reduced to maintain constant response and the difference between left and right travel is widened to maintain equal rate left and right. The 3030 can do this but with only one switching point, the 4000 can have several switching points, and the on and off points can be separated if required. If I really wanted to, I could use one of the 4000's analogue software switches, windowed across some part or all off the throttle travel, to attenuate the overall aileron travel and alter the symmetry smoothly across the entire throttle range rather than have it stepping in 2, 3, 4 or 5 bands.

There is a "schemp-hirth" program you can create to drive airbrakes. These need full travel to positively lock the brakes closed, but to avoid the servo binding a slight time delay is built in so that once the servo has driven the lock to its max it waits a moment and then backs off slightly. If using a propo servo with retracts, the same can be done with that.

I assume that the 9Z can apply a multi-point curve to an individual channel rather than to an overall control? One acquaintance with a 4000, who is a UK scale champ and oft competed in the World Champs, uses this for his twin's power setting. Two channels are used on throttle, a servo at each engine. One engine gets the default 3 point curve and is set up. The other throttle servo gets a 13 point curve and is adjusted using a rev-counter so that it matches the other engines revs all through the throttle range to take out any slight difference between the engines.

The 4000 has logical switches. These have several inputs each and you choose an OR or an AND to be applied to determine the output. Inputs can be the switches, positions of controls, positions of servos (servo position is not the same as control positions since the servo position is the output of its mixer). The output of the logical switch is itself then used as a switch e.g to switch rates, mixers, or virtual controls etc. Yes, the 4000 has virtual controls as well as the real controls whereby a secondary switch (physical switch such as a rate switch etc which is not plugged into any of the control sockets on the main board) or a software switch such as the output from a logical switch can be used to control a servo between 2 or 3 pre-set positions.

Harry

mikekomm

My Feedback: (9)

I'm thinking about purchasing the Hitec Eclipse with the spectra module. It seems that the mailorder cost of $220 is pretty reasonable for this radio that should handle our gas, park flyers and eventually sailplanes. Am I missing something or is this really the best deal out there? Are there important features that this radio is missing that other radios have?