marwen1

My Feedback: (6)

I am on a limited and "fixed" income. In order for me to even considar getting a decent Transmitter & Receiver, I have to look at a used unit.

Q. What do I look for?

Or better yet, should I be looking for things that I DON'T want to see?

marwen

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Buying anything used is always a guessing game.

First I must ask what a limited budget means. How much do you have to spend?

What are you trying to buy? What are you trying to fly?

In some ways, radios are like computers. Many times the savings of buying used is not that great. Other times it can be very high.

But today's computer radios outperform yesterday's computer radios and do it at much lower cost so it might not pay to buy used.

Net net it all depends on what you are trying to buy and why.

marwen1

My Feedback: (6)

XP55 Ascender, 48" WS - (fiber glassed) engine??
36" DELTA - Force One - .46cc
48" P51D - .60cc

I had a person want to do some trading - He claimed he had a few Tx units that were only 2-3 years old.

When it comes to my budget - I really don't know yet - I'm not there.

I have always built things "scratch" I bought my materialsa as I got to that point od manufacturing. If things get too expensive, for my way of thinking, I simple shuffle the cash flow


marwen

warhwk

My Feedback: (3)

I would ask yourself what you will need for the airplanes YOU plan to fly.

1. How many channels will you need? 4,6,9?

2. Do you need dual rate switches? ATV?

3. Do you need Exponential, flapperons, elevons?

4. Do you need a trainer port?

5. Do you need multiple model capability?

Some of my radio's are more than ten years old and still work great. I wouldn't be afraid of purchasing a radio made in the last 5 years. I personally fly my Hitec Eclipse 7 most of the time. It's a decent radio that does almost everything and will store 7 models in its memory.

marwen1

My Feedback: (6)

I guess those would be the obvious things to look for that they can do. I guess what my original mindset was to have a sort of list of things to look for that should work, but don't.

I am here, in mid Canada. My seller is somewhere in the east half of the country. My potential seller/trader is a club director.

I know that I want to have ONE Tx that is capable of setting up for about 5-6 different aircraft.

One on particular is the FORCE ONE. She is a pusher with fixed rudders. The plans called for one elevator directly in the center and behind the prop. The two outside ELEVONS (?) are (of course) on the ouyside of the two fixed rudders and they alternate (push/pull) in their function. All that being said, the LHS suggested that I just go with a setup that is completely ELEVONS (2 pieces) and to "mix" them.

I made this plane once back in the late 80's - the way the plans call for it. I took the LHS advice and set it up for a mix.

Is there a way to ask the seller of any pitfalls that may or may not be functional?

Any help on this would be most helpful guys.

marwen

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

This is about new radios, but it will get some ideas across that may be helpful.


STANDARD vs. COMPUTER RADIOS

I think you will find the economics of computer radios have changed in the
last 2-3 years. This is partially due to the advance in electronics and
partly because people are buying that second, third plane much sooner. We
have flyers in our club who have been flying less than 6 months who have 3
planes already. The cost has dropped so much, and the availability of ARFs
and high quality kits have made it cheaper and simpler to get the next plane.
There is little to hold them back.

I am seeing new pilots go directly to the computer radio, or start with a
standard radio, then buy the computer radio on the second plane and put the
standard radio in the box forever. For me, this happened after 6 months when
I started flying my third plane. The standard radio that came with my RTF
sailplane has been given to a friend for his son, to help him get started. I
had no use for it.

I should point out that our club flies parkflyers and sailplanes where these
low costs apply. A quality ARF parkflyer or simple to build kit, with the
motor, can cost as little as $40. A flight pack for that plane can be as low
as $70. You can put it in the air over a weekend.

An ARF 2 meter sailplane can be $90. The electronics to put that in the air
can be around $70 and can be completed in a couple of evenings.

In the glow and gas powered world these low costs and rapid adoption of second
and third planes might be different. I can't say.

BACK TO RADIOS

Just as computers have wiped out the typewriter, so the computer radio is
obsolescing the standard radio. Computer radios used to be expensive, but
not any longer. I submit that they are now the economical choice.

For someone new to flying and looking at buying your first radio, this
article on entry level standard radios might be of value.

Entry Level Radios
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=44

When I wrote that article back in May I did a bunch of research. I then
started on the research for the follow up article on computer radios that can
be found here:

Computer Radios
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=65

I have come to the conclusion that the only reason to buy
a standard radio is lack of confidence that you plan to go forward, or
the standard radio came as part of an RTF package.

Here is a quick look at some key points.

Economics - Let's compare - Tower Hobbies catalogue

Hitec Laser 4, receiver and 4 HS-322 standard servos - $120
Hitec Flash 5SX computer radio, receiver, HS-325 servos - $156

Difference is $36

You get 5 model memories so you can instantly switch to any of 5 models
without having to reset anything. If we ignore servos and receiver, the
Flash covers your next four planes for about $9 each. With the standard radio
you need to reset for each plane, carefully keep all planes tuned identically,
or buy a radio for each plane so you can tune it to the plane and keep the
settings. That would cost about $60 per plane for each standard radio, or an
additional $240. And with the flash you only have to charge one radio and
bring one radio regardless of which plane, or how many different planes you
wish to fly.

$36 for one radio that handles 5 planes or an added 240 to have each plane's
settings retained with a standard radio.

Big savings with the computer radio!

In the Tower hobbies catalogue:
Futaba Skysport 4 with 4 S304 servos and receiver for $129
Futaba SkySport 6 with 4 S304 servos and receiver for $149
Futaba 6EXA 6 Ch computer radio-same servos and receiver $179

For $30-$50 you get 6 model memories and a whole pile more value with the
computer radio.

You get channel 5 for retracts AND channel 6 for flaps, but there is much
more the computer radios will provide.

Flaps anyone?

Split Ailerons/flapperons: - You can install two aileron servos, one on
channel 1 and one on channel 6. You can set up aileron differential, if you
wish, to improve effectiveness while reducing drag. You fly the plane
normally. Then flip a switch and turn the ailerons into flapperons. Now you
can use your ailerons as flaps during landings. Flaps on a 4 channel plane
that doesn't have flaps. You can just as easily set them up as spoilers, which
would be more common on sailplanes.

Cool!

Coordinated turns - Mix rudder into your ailerons so you have a coordinated
turn. On a standard radio you have to do this manually. With the computer
radio, you focus on the plane while the radio handles the coordination yet you
can override and add or reduce rudder at any time.

If you wish you can turn this on and off at the touch of a switch. Do it
manually or do it automatically. Your choice.

Exponential, dual rates, model memories, channel mixing, digital trims and
lots more. Some of these features can be very helpful in getting new pilots
in the air.

Are computer radio hard to use?

No! In fact if you want, you can just use it as a standard 3 or 4 channel
radio until you want to use the other features.

Take a look at this thread, starting at post 49. This guy talks about using
flaps
as ailerons on a R/E sailplane. Pretty cool idea.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...6&page=4&pp=15

So, for an extra $30-50 over a standard 4 channel or 6 channel radio, you get
a radio that handles multiple models and lets you do things that the standard
radios can't do. Go up a another $25-50 to the Hitec Optic 6 or Futaba 7C and
it is amazing what you can do.

Will you need it on the first plane? Maybe not, but you probably will want
some of those features for future models, so why buy the standard radio in the
first place? The price difference over a standard radio is now so small that
for all but the very few, the computer radio is now the economic entry level
radio of choice.

If you get into even semi serious aerobatics or sailplanes, a computer radio
is a huge benefit and for some things, almost a requirement to bring the plane
to its full potential. Even a 4 channel parkflyer or a simple R/E sailplane
with spoilers or flaps benefits from a computer radio.

There is only one reason to buy a standard radio these days. "I don't know if
I will like RC flying so I want to spend as little as possible". Or the
standard radio came in
an RTF package like an Multiplex Easy Star RTF, a Great Planes Spirit Select
RTF or a
NextStar Glow RTF.

I have used Hitec and Futaba as examples here because I know those lines best,
but JR, Airtronics and others have entry level computer radios that are a much
better value than any standard radio. In many cases these entry level
computer radios will serve the needs of the pilot for many years to come.

Get a computer radio, save a bundle of money, get a bundle
of features and really have fun with your RC flying.

marwen1

My Feedback: (6)

Holy Christmas! I guess that told me! LOLLOLOLOLOLLOL


thank you sooooooo much

marwen

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

I have exchanged posts with a lot of people who were looking at used standard radios. These may have cost $100 a few years ago. So the owner was asking $50 for it. Sounded like a good deal, but when you look at the price, features, value of the newer radios, especially the computer radios, the used radios don't always look as attractive.

I purchased a used Futaba Conquest 4 channel for $10 strictly, for use as a buddy box and to use on a flight simulator. It works fine and could be used as a keep in the car radio with your keep in the car plane. If you break it or lose it, who cares.

I just don't see standard radios, even used standard radios, being a cost effective primary approach based on current pricing and technology. But as buddy boxes, simulator boxes they are fine.

marwen1

My Feedback: (6)

thnak you much for all of your incredibly valuable input

Marwen

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

The following is a summary of essential features related to airplanes and
gliders. Many of these radios have helicopter features but I don't review
them. I include links to the
manufacturer's/distributor's product page, where available.

Prices shown are approximate value for radio alone either in a package, or the
radio purchased by itself including battery and charger. While I group by the
value of the radio alone, many are not available that way. Most come
packaged with standard size servos and receivers. These packages may not be
suitable for electric flyers or small gliders. If I see a package with small
servos and receiver, I note the link for the benefit of these flyers.

Unless noted otherwise, all radios have Low Battery Warning, Digital Trims,
Timers, End Point Adjustment, Dual Rates and Exponential on Ch1&2; some
include Ch 4. All include elevon and V-tail mixes. Unless stated otherwise
radios do not have support for 4 wing servos or split elevator servos.

This article may be useful in understanding the features I mention here and
their value.

Radio Systems Part 2 - Computer Radios - The right choice for almost everyone
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=65


Entry level Computer Radios 5/6 channel - approx $90-110
If your focus in on parkflyers, RES sailplanes, aileron sailplanes or 4-5
channel glow planes, these are very capable for the price. In addition to the
basic 4 channels they have retract, flap and/or split aileron capabilities.
These make great first radios for the committed new pilot, providing features
beyond the 4 channel "standard" radios at a small incremental investment. For
many pilots, these may be all the radio they will need for years. They will
fly more advanced planes, like full house sailplanes or aerobatic planes, but
may
not be able to bring out all the plane can offer.

Hitec Flash 5SX -
http://www.hitecrcd.com/Radios/Flash5.htm
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXRT20**&P=7
This package has small servos and receiver suitabale for electric flyers
5 Channel, 5 Model Memory, Ch 1/5 provide dual ailerons management for
Flapper, Flaps on 3 way switch or Throttle Stick. Aileron-Rudder mix. No
user defined mixes.

Futaba EXA -
http://www.futaba-rc.com/radios/futk55.html
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...?article_id=82
6 channels, 6-model memory, Prop Flaps chi 6, Flapperon using 1/6, 1 user
defined mix. No timers.

Airtronics VG 6000
http://www.airtronics.net/VG6000.htm
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXEUY5**&P=7
This particular package is one of the few I have seen packaged specifically
for the small electric flyer. Comes with two small servos and an ESC.
6 channels, 4 model memories, 6 standard mixes, no user definable mix
capability listed.



Mid Range Computer Radios 6/7 Channels Approx $130-180 for the radio.
These radios provide a richer feature set than the entry level computer
radios, primarily in more model memories, more surface mixes and switch
assignability. These radios can bring out more of the capabilities of more
advanced planes and give you set-up options the entry level computer radios
lack.

Hitec Optic 6
http://www.hitecrcd.com/Radios/OPTIC.htm
review
http://www.rcgroups.com/links/index....at=281&id=4451
6 channel, 8 Model Memory, Model naming, Spectra channel synth option, Change
channel module, shift select, switch assignability, flight modes, 2 user
programmable mixes, and a variety of standard mixes.

Futaba 7C
http://www.futaba-rc.com/radios/futj69.html
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=321
Review - also compares it to the 9C, the 6XAS and the JR 6102
http://www.rcgroups.com/links/index.php?id=4405
7 channels, 10 Model Memory, Model Naming, Switch Assignability, Flight Modes,
3 user programmable mixes and a selection of standard mixes.

JR 6102
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...odID=JRP6664**
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=305
This is a futaba 7C review, but the author compares it to the JR near the end
of the article. May be helpful if you are trying to compare the two.
http://www.rcgroups.com/links/index.php?id=4405
6 channels, 10 model Memory, model naming, selectable switch locations,
Direct Servo Connect (DSC), 4 user programmable mixes, a variety of standard
mixes,

Airtronics RD6000 Super
http://www.airtronics.net/RD6000_Super.htm
6 channel, 8 model memory, Good selection of standard mixes. Appears to have
two user definable mixes


Radios with 4 Servo Wing Support

Hitec Eclipse 7 - $180- for the radio
http://www.hitecrcd.com/Radios/eclipse.htm
7 channels - 7 model memory, Shift select, 3 conditional mixes per model,
Channel change module and Spectra frequency synth, Five user programmable
mixes, conditional mixes, a variety of predefined mixes.

The Eclipse is an older design but has some nice features and is quite
popular. It is distinguished from the group above in that it has some support
for a 4 servo wing and perhaps a mix or two more at $180. For sailplanes and
scale sailplanes, the Eclipse can even move channel 3 off the throttle stick
so you can control flaps/crow with the throttle stick while you use channel 3
on a switch to operate the motor, an aerotow cable or landing gear. Very nice
feature.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/9C_%...2763546/tm.htm


Futaba 9C Super - about $290
http://www.futaba-rc.com/radios/futj85.html
http://www.rcgroups.com/links/index.php?id=4600
http://www.servocity.com/html/9ca_super_systems.html

Futaba 9C Super has replaced the 9C that I own, though some places still have
the 9C. 9C Super has unlimited model memories via removable modules, 7
User-programmable Mixes + 8 defined mixes, 4 snap roll programs, two servo
elevator support, 4 servo wing support, customizable trainer program and
switch assignability. This is a very flexible radio.

Unless you have a large budget, I would not consider this a first radio. If
you have outgrown your entry level or intermediate computer radio and want a
significant jump in capabilities, take a look at the Futaba 9C or Super.
This is an advanced sport radio, or a budget competition radio, that has
virtually all of the features that advanced sport power and sailplane
pilots are likely to need. It has a very strong following.

-------------------------------------------

$400 and up for the radio alone

Royal Evo 9 Channel
http://www.multiplexusa.com/Radios/royal-evo-9.htm

Airtronics Stylus - 8 Channel
http://www.airtronics.net/stylus.htm

JR 9303
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...odID=JRP9269**


If you have $2000 laying around, check out the Futaba 14MZ
http://www.14mz.com/

Bob101

The only used Tx I ever bought I got from someone at our field who upgraded. To me that's a good way to go. Surely you know someone you fly with who has to have the latest/greatest all the time. Plus you have the benefit of knowing it "actually worked" cause I saw him fly it every week before I purchased it (including that day) with no problems.

Not sure if I would take a used Tx from someone I didn't know and use it on a plane I owned without sending it in.

I think you can get some great deals tho...you can buy a used 8USuper someone has taken care of and wants to buy a 9c/9z/14mz etc.. for less than 1/2 or around 1/3 what a 9C cost - and that's with a module etc.. and it's nearly as functional as a 9C if your on a tight budget etc...

Look for guys who take care of their stuff, people who carry their transmitters in aluminum cases and regularly have thier stuff checked - not guys who are known to leave the transmitter on top of the truck and drive off etc... heh.

BoiseBee

My Feedback: (3)

In buying a used radio, two things to watch that can wipe out any savings: Any kind of internal electronics problem with the TX (or Rx for that matter) and batteries that need replacing (assuming you're getting a complete system). Neither will be obvious.

hilleyja

My Feedback: (3)

Aside from the inherent risk of buying used radio equipment -- they are either bad or good.

MAXIMUM ground TESTING before even thinking about putting an airplane in the air. I will go out on a limb and state that most used RX flight equipment was probably scavenged from a crashed airplane or severly used over a long period of time. Having said that, I have a considerable number of RXs and servos in my inventory that I have picked up used. On the average I'd say that only about 5% of them turned out to be problematic and even then the problems were detected on the ground. You can't beat the value you get from used equipment -- just be careful that you thouroughly check it out before installing on an airplane.

E.G.s

1) The Futaba R129DP 9-channel PCM RX in my GP Christen Eagle II was a used RX I got off of eBay -- turned out to be very reliable and highly resistent to interference.

2) The Futaba R148DP 8-channel RCM RX I originally installed in my Eagle could barely get 60' of range testing before my servos were all over the planet -- traded it off to someone else who planned on having it repaired.

3) The Futab R149DP 9-channel PCM RX I got off of eBay was never installed in one of my airplanes. I don't know why, but I ended up selling it to another club member for $85.00 and he now has it installed in his 40%-scale Xtra 300.

NOTE: There is one piece of RX equipment I WILL NOT buy used. All of my RX battery switches are brand new heavy-duty DPDT MPIs or equivalent -- emphasis on NEW and non-generic. Before I instituted this personal rule I lost 3 airplanes to crashes and 1 airplane that ran away (neighboor, over a mile away, returned airplane the next day with minimal damage) from total loss-of-control. Since abiding by this rule I have never lost an airplane to control problems.

I once did buy a switch off of eBay. It was advertised as a brand new Futaba switch (I do use smaller brand-name switches on my small airplanes). Before the end of the auction I emailed the seller to verify it was truely a Futaba switch. He told me it was. When I received it, it was not only NOT a Futaba-brand switch (it had Futaba j-connectors) but most definitely used. I did not hesitate contacting that seller and demanding my money back and subsequently left him NEGATIVE feedback.