LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Exactly. OTOH, I value your opinion. I think you were a bit hasty in unloading your 9Z, though... eh?[]

Thanks for the clarification on the stylus. Still, I just cannot justify (to myself) that kind of scratch for a radio. Heck, I don't fully utilize the 9Z's capabilities.

Much of my "discontent" is my own fault. Truth be told, a 9C will do everything I really need in a radio. Its only real shortcoming is not enough free mixers for a few particular heli needs, and that can be worked around with a bit of effort; besides being a moot point for me these days. The problem is, I simply do not LIKE the look OR the feel of the 9C. Its purely a personal thing.

I'll venture to say that the T12Z is indeed the intended replacement for the 9Z, and that the next new radio we see from Futaba will be spread spectrum, etc. There is a GREAT deal of interest in the secure frequency concept, and whoever can produce a working, reasonably-priced system will cash in big time. At any rate, while my heart is telling me I should not buy Futaba any more because they took away the 9Z and are trying to foist the T12Z and 14MZ upon us, my head tells me that is really dumb and I'm thinking like a woman about this. THAT'S a clue... Bottom line, if my 9Z dies early, I should get a 9C and make do until the new technology is well-grounded; should be time for a new system by then anyway. My newest receiver is over a year old; most of the rest are three years old or more.

Why have I quit flying helis? Can't say for sure. I've just gradually lost interest. RR did a lot to keep the fire going, but, as you said, the increased proliferation of two-gallon experts has made that place more like a day-care center; I rarely go there any more.

One definite reason is a desire to keep things simple. Reinforcing this is my foray again into gasoline power. You might remember my TSK MyStar gasser some ten years ago, and the grief it caused me. I recently decided to try it again and bought a BME 50 to go on my big plank. You think helis are expensive? Try a 27%+ gas-powered aerobat with all the trimmings.

The thing is, the older I get, the more attractive simple four-channel glow planes start to look. I've still got my old X-Cell, and have no plans to get rid of it; but I flew it exactly six times in 2005. It hasn't been touched since October.

I do need to disconnect the battery, to prevent possible black-wire disease from ruining things if the battery goes bad just sitting there...

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

My main reason for unloading my 9Z now was because I was afraid any 9Z replacement would offer more features/functionality at a similiar price point thereby decreasing the resale value of my 9Z. With the 9Z showing up as discontinued on the Tower website I was afraid a replacement was eminent. Well, now that the pricing information for the T12Z is available it's clear this isn't a price point replacement for the 9Z. However, from what I've seen of the recent 9Z WCII TXs for sale the resale value has been decreasing somewhat.

I know what you mean about the feel of the 9C. I like the feel of my 10 year old JR-388s better than the feel of a brand new 9C.

Good one on the day care center. You're right! It's amazing how much more mature the plankers are. What's really scary is how many them will never graduate from day care. Thank god for the "no child left behind" program.

When you get a chance send me some pictures of that gasser you're working on.

xcellheli

My Feedback: (1)

I have owned a 9Z since 98 and was quite happy with the radio until I started building large planes with many servos. The thought of filling a plane with a bunch of little servo match boxes just seemed dumb. The 9Z just falls short in this area. I also got tired of having to pull out the manual everytime I built a new plane to program it. The 9Z is versitle, but is not real intuitive. A year ago I purchased the 14MZ and believe it is a great radio. I agree with all the short comings that others have written, but the 9Z still has many more short comings. The 14MZ manual is pathetic, but you don't really need it. The programming is so much easier then the 9Z. While the price initially is expensive, the cost of all those little match boxes add up fast. If you build smaller planes, then the cost is harder to justify. I find it crazy that people spend $1000 per plane on servos and then complain about the cost of the 14MZ. I have given my 9Z to my eight year old son, and am happy with the 14MZ. People are funny they think that just because a radio costs $2000 it should do the dishes or something and are then dissapointed when it doesn't. The 14MZ performs as advertised and continues to get software updates that increase it's functionality. I for one am a happy customer, but I understand if others don't share my opinion.

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

?????

Why didn't you use the Copy Condition function? As in, have a generic set-up stored and plug it in each time?

The word "intuitive" can have several meanings. But trust me when I tell you that NOBODY is more computer/electronic-illiterate than me. And I was comfortable with the 9Z's interface in less than a month.

I'll take your word for it that the 14MZ is easier. But then, I don't find the 9Z "hard". As for the extra servos, that's why the 14MZ was created; all the jet and scale guys were using 10Xs because it is a true 10-channel radio, where the 9Z is only eight; the 9th being on-off only.

I cannot speak for anyone else, but MY problem with the 14MZ's pricing is the same reason I bought my 9Z overseas; the same reason I paid $75 a piece gray market for a bunch of 9252s, when The Empire was charging $140 a piece. And this "region code" business ensures that if you want a 14MZ, you WILL buy it from The Empire, at their price.

I simply choose None of the Above...

xcellheli

My Feedback: (1)

Steve,
I did copy models and conditions. Planes are fairly easy to program, but I have a couple of choppers and they definately require the use of the manual. What is your gray market source? I have purchased things from Singapore, but the exchange rate the last couple of years have greatly reduced the savings.

Don't get me wrong, I still think the 9Z is an awsome radio and I will not sell mine, I just get tired of the continual 14MZ bashing.

"Region Codes," I didn't realize they have done this. I guess you could say the "Empire Strikes Back" Alright that was a poor pun

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

I got mine from a guy in Hawaii; cannot remember the name (I think it was Charles, although he was of Asian descent), but he offered a limited selection of Futaba stuff and other heli accessories. He had a web site, and obviously had a line into Japan to get his stuff direct, because his prices were killer. If you frequent RR, some of the old hands (if there are any left) will know who he was; he sold a lot of stuff to CONUS heli pilots.

Rumor was that The Empire filed a big lawsuit against him, because he was in the States and The Empire has exclusive rights here. I do know that The Empire successfully shut down Cousin Irwin when he was bringing OS engines in through the back door.

Anyway, I heard that the Hawaii guy's service, which was excellent, began to slip. Eventually he went away, so I suppose The Empire ran him out of the game.

Buying from Singapore and Hong Kong, and Japan (Ishi Mokei) direct makes sense only on small stuff like electronics, because the shipping on kits, etc., will kill any savings. But this "gray market" was big-time active for several years, as folks wised up to the US distributors doing us without benefit of lubrication. I guess the US distributors finally realized just how much they were losing in sales, because they eventually dropped some prices (not the 9Z[]) to be competitive with the Asian vendors. That, and the rising exchange rate, has probably "cooled" the gray market activity somewhat. I haven't been following this for several years, so I really don't know what the situation is currently.

FWIW, a big aerobatic plank with multiple servos is not any easier to set up than a helicopter, if one utilizes mixes, flaperons, ailevators, etc.

xcellheli

My Feedback: (1)

I find that airplanes are easier to program on the bench, but require a bunch of tinkering at the field to get all the mixes dialed in. Heli's on the other hand take a long time to set up on the bench, but require almost no tinkering at the field.

I agree with you that the large multi servo airplanes are more complicated to setup, then the small ones. This is were the 14MZ definetly shines.

I actually bought my 9Z from a guy as a package deal with a heli, simulator and a bunch of tools. I sold the heli, kept the tools and ended up paying only $700 for the radio with all the servos and receiver. He never used it, I had to finish assembling the heli. My 14MZ was bought from my LHS for only $1860, a far cry better then Tower.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

$1860 is great price on the 14MZ, what is your local hobby store?

xcellheli

My Feedback: (1)

Sorry, typo. I paid $1960 which is still better than the $2200 of Tower.

My LHS is B&B Hobbies in Spokane. This was the first and only one they sold. I have known the owner for years and he cut me a great price just to see it. There are not a lot of high end modelers in Spokane, so he doesn't normally stock a radio like this.

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

You know, when I read posts by fellows like Gordie Meade and Ben Minor, I pay attention. These guys are serious F3C competitors with tons of heli experience. They say the 2048 system of the 14MZ is definitely noticeable and better than the 1024 the rest of us are using. I don't doubt it. I proved to myself that good digital servos are leagues above analogs in terms of precision and control.

But I'm finding that, as I get older and my reflexes lean more toward split-minute than split-second, the expense and added performance of good digitals doesn't seem to be worth it in the long run. I can buy two 3305s, which are very strong analogs, or 1.5 9202s, which are very precise analogs, for what one 9252 digital costs; and either analog will fly my models quite nicely. Since I'm limited to 30% planes (got no place to assemble/store/transport anything bigger) and don't thrash my models, these servos are adequate. Well, 9202s aren't enough for the gassers, but you get the idea.

Applying this logic to the 14MZ validates my earlier, initial reaction to the price; that's ridiculous! Aside from the fact that the 14MZ has way more "stuff" than I need, two grand + is two grand +. And I get along just fine with 1024 PCM.

The more I think about T12Z/14MZ pricing, the more annoyed I become. So I need to stop thinking about it... and I need to quit posting about it, or else my 9Z just might die and back me into a corner

And how's the above for a long-winded rationalization; or put another way, the realization that I've become too cheap to buy top-end gear???

But the "can-you-top-THIS???" game continues. I read over on a heli forum that JR is working on a 16 channel answer to the 14MZ. SIXTEEN channels??? You gotta be kidding. I'd need a freakin' co-pilot to handle that.

C'mon, radio folks. Give us a ten channel radio with total flexibility (ALL software types, switch assignability, etc.), a DECENT TX battery, a scratch-resistant screen, and a nice carrying case, all for a thousand bucks.

You'd sell a ton of them...

Sorry, guys. Guess I'm feeling philosophical this morning...[&o]

xcellheli

My Feedback: (1)

Of course you can always use a $60 PPM receiver and you have infinite steps. An analog receiver is true position and doesn't use steps, making it the most precise receiver. People use the PCM for the fail safe functionality. When setting up airplanes with large deflections, you can see the finer steps of the 2048 on the bench.

I hear you on your argument for justification. It is easy to overpurchase gear when getting caught up with the latest hype. I for one am thankful that I have been blessed with being able to buy pretty much what ever I want, but I am not sure I have a lot more fun then when I flew 40 size planes with standard servos and a 6 channel radio. Heck some of my favorite planes are $200 foamies.

Volfy

My Feedback: (23)

Not exactly. The RF modulation may be stepless, but just about all TXs these days (except maybe some very cheap ones) use a microprocessor, which reads the stick pots through A/D converters, before converting the discretized stick positions back into analog PPM out to RF.

Anyhow, none of this really is noticeable to guys happily sport flying .40-.60 planes, as you correctly pointed out.

sfsjkid

I do agree that the 14MZ is way beyond any justification I can make, but have the feeling the 12MZ will be in my future once my 9Z, which should last a few years fortunately, gives up the ghost. If I remember correctly, and in round numbers, the 9Z cost $830, the synthesized module $150, for a total of $980. Currently, Tower lists the 12MZ for $1500 which includes the $340 14 channel RX. A $340 RX is hard to justify, except for larger stuff, so figure the 12MZ sans RX should come in about $1200(?). A couple a years from now after the "wow factor" is gone and production efficiencies kick in, we might see the price come down a hundred or so. The way I see it, when I'm ready for the 12MZ, its not going to be much more expensive than what I have right now.

huggins

In the past couple of years, all of the 6 and 7 channel sets have been upgraded/revised. They have released the 14mz and are now in the process of upgrading the 9z to the 12mz. This will leave the 9c as one of the oldest radios in Futaba's stable. In a year or two, it too will probably be upgraded. Maybe it will come in more on the level feature wise with the soon to be obsolete 9z. I will probably wait for that one.

Mike

3D Joy

The 9Cs is here to stay, it sells a lot. It will sell even more if the 9Z becomes the 12MZ.

On another note it is not really much better than my older 8U. Just about the same functions with some easy upgrades.

BR289

My Feedback: (106)

I have had my 9Z for a few months, and have no clue how to program it....I may just sell it or possibly have it returned to Great Planes since I have a 14MZ.........

sirrom

My Feedback: (4)

I have been in this hobby along time. I have owned Kraft, JR, and Futaba. I have owned the JR 6 somethging awhile ago, but got rid of that for a Super 7, then a 8 Super, then a 9Z and now a 14z. I fly helis as well as planes and wanted the extra programming for them that is why I primarily stuck with futaba. When I decided that my 9z was not handling my jets anymore and I was using 2 or 3 matchboxes in a plane I decided to look at other brands. First I of course looked at the 14mz being a futaba guy. Then I looked at the JR 10x but alot of the guys I fly with have them and got first hand knowledge of things that I saw in them that I did not like. I tried to wrap my head around the Pizza box transmitter but I can't fly with strap (a quirk of mine) and the radio felt uncomfortable in my hands but it had the programming and features, I tried the Graupner 12 channel but to get true 12 channels you had to be in PPM and for PCM you only got 10 so I was back to the 10x. Finally I purchased the 14z and have never looked back. I love the radio and it is intutive to me. I have my helis and jets programmed into it and I don't have to use a matchbox.

When I took out my 14mz the first time with new receiver for testing, I was nervous and the resolution of the new receiver was so fast it picked up the small shake I had in my hands and transferred them to the helicopter I was flying, which never happened with my 9z. I am not saying it is perfect, because I did find some things I did not like about it, but they were minor.

As far as not seeing the screen in the daylight I don't have a problem, and I use my fingers on the screen sometimes you don't have to use the stylus all the time. Buy what you want to buy be it futaba, jr, polk, etc. Just buy what makes you happy and quit saying that those of us who bought the 14mz brought it only for the bling factor. I brought it because I do take my hobby seriously as it is the only thing other than my family that I really enjoy.


Oh and by the way people put different values on things. I have a neighbor that put over 10K worth of parts on a big jacked up pickup truck to take mudding, but he says I am foolish for spending 1500-2000 on a heli or 4k on a jet. Your interpretation of what is too expensive or is worth what to you is subjective. I felt that the radio was worth what I paid (2100 total with 2 receivers and 2 batteries) but alot of people wont think it was worth that much.

Patrick

Just my .02 worth.

merctech1979

what about the 9zhp wc.....not the wc2. what does the wc2 have over the wc1??