red_z06

My Feedback: (11)

Hi:

I have few aerobatic planes with 6ch+ on Futaba 9ZAP radio. I realized that 4ch buddy box is not capable of controlling these airplanes. Even if the plane was 4ch setup, if it had expos setup, that setup does not transfer to the buddy box.
It turns out that, to use all the mixes in 9ZAP setup, one needs another 9ZAP as a buddy box. I thought there was no other way.

I then saw a fellow club member who is starting on Aerobatics with 35% Edge with all the mixes. He simply hooked it up to a 4ch dummy buddy box (JR quattro) and all the channels and expos and mixes were accesible with zero setup on the buddy box.

Needless to say I was blown away at the ease and furious at Futaba for requiring very expensive buddy box.

Is 14mz capable of hooking up to a futaba buddy box and transfer contol to buddy box like JR or is JR only buddy box friendly radio?

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

I can't answer for Futaba, but I wonder if part of their thinking is that MOST of the time, but I realize not all, a buddy box is used for a trainer plane. These should not require expo, more than 4 channels, or any other frills. In addition, it seems reasonable for them to conclude that people with the 9Z are going to be the instructors and that the students will be on a much simpler (less expensive) 4 or 6 channel radio. Personally, I've never quite understood the idea of someone who has progressed to the point where they are learning aerobatics, but still needs a buddy box... But I guess that's just my pride since I've never been on the trainee side of a buddy box.

red_z06

My Feedback: (11)

Piper:

It is mainly for my son Justin who is 3 years old. He is capable of most of the manuevers including K-E flying, Flat Spins, Harrier, Side Slip, rolls, Rolling Harrier, Hover. He can handle low flyby's doing K-E, inverted, and of course upright. But having him fly on a buddby box acts as a safety rather than to train using 27% Extra and my 35% Yak.

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

WOW! I completely understand, and that's definitely one of those exception cases that I knew existed.

carrellh

I have to use a transmitter in stick mode 3. The Futaba 6XAS was the least expensive radio that could do that mode a few years ago. I had to buy 2 of them (about $240 each with receiver and servos) so my instructor would have a mode 2 transmitter and I'd have a mode 3 buddy box, so I'm familiar with having a fairly expensive buddy box.

If you got a 9C transmitter only from servocity ($250) you could set up the expo and mixes in it. It's an expensive buddy box but it would allow your son to enjoy flying in a safe manner. You'd have to double-check the FAQs on the Futaba site to be sure it works 9Z to 9C, or ask in the Futaba forum.

My two 6XAS' allow mixing, expo, ATV, dual rates, etc in the buddy box that is different than the master.

I know someone who told me about teaching his 7 year old. The boy flew very well but when he lost interest he put down the transmitter and walked away so there was no way he could fly solo. Now the son is an instructor.

red_z06

My Feedback: (11)

carrellh:

My complaint is the fact that you have to program the buddy box for each and every model you wish to use on a buddy box. In contrast, JR transmitter can be connected to a dummy box and instantly you have access to all mixes and expo without programming. I believe you just need to check for trim.

As I stated, Futaba transfers all operation to slave unit (buddy box) and acts as a signal transmitter hence requiring more sophistated buddy box. JR on the other hand transfers only stick values to be transferred to a buddy box so any box as long as it has 2 joysticks work.

I would have to say JR have outdone Futaba in this area.

red_z06

My Feedback: (11)

I just found out through Futaba Tech Support that 14mz is no different. I guess its time to buy a JR9303.

FYI:

If you are using 2 Futaba 9z as a buddy box setup, be sure not to unplug the cord until the plane is on the ground and engine off as the tx will simulate computer meltdown. How do I know? I watched my Patty Wagstaff plunge into a lake helplessly while it was going in doing a spin. However, unplugging a dummy buddy box did not cause a problem.

olivier

Hi,

Contrary to the 9Z, with a Futaba 7C or 9C and even the older 8c as master, all mixings and settings are controled by the master transmitter. This means that slave transmitter can be any simple 4 channel TX (with same channel assignment).

And YES, it is unbelievable that a high end TX such as the 9Z or the 14MZ cannot do that!

Just like Futaba, not all JR can control all mixings as master. JR calls this feature the "pilot link". Even the cheap JR6102 can do it!
Cannot remember exactly which JR can do what you want, I'll revert on that if requested.
Multiplex MC3010,3030, Royal Evo 9 & 12 and MC4000 can also do all mixings as master.
Same for Graupner MC24, MC22 and MX22.
Not any Hitec or Airtronics/Sanwa can be used as master with control of mixings of the buddy box.

Check-out my website chapter 1, just after figure 1.1

Olivier

davilae1

[8D] sorry for changing sub both i'm new on this .
hi my name is Erwin and i wonder if you can gme a clue what air plane to by and 6 or 7 ch radio, i know they recommend a trainer i don't want to star wasting money so far look i like aerobatic airplane like mustang p-51 i'm looking for a nice aerobatic plane most of them are ugly can you gme any advise on it i will appreciated very much also what motor,servos,radio, thanks allot by by.

rccrazedman

My Feedback: (10)

just like oliver sates I can't understand futabas reasoning why my 7c and the 9c can do this but not there top of the line radios. I would be very mad at futaba if I had bought one of those radios.

red_z06

My Feedback: (11)

It was hilarious when I contacted futaba to confront them about this issue. The tech ( untech? notech? antitech? ) who answered my call proceeded to tell me that I needed to turn on mix function on the trainer panel which would tie mixed in channel to work when dummy box was hooked up?????. I then started to read the manual about the mix switch and it turns out that turning mix on allows the instructor to mix in his control to compensate for students stick movement. At least I learned a new stuff...

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

The 9Z is over a decade old... what did you expect?

I use a 9Z for buddy-boxing all the time; first with a simple four-channel sport radio, now with a 7C. Although I understand your problem (using a very responsive airplane that simply must have the expo values transferred), you will admit that it is somewhat rare. I know, I know; that doesn't do you any good.

I have used several different radio systems to buddy-box with; including the JR PCM 10 SX II that I flew for seven years. The 9Z blows ALL of them away with the feature that allows you to override the student by simply moving your stick. IOW, you don't have to keep a switch depressed.

To be honest, I have never paid much attention to expo rates, etc., since you just don't use them much on trainers. I guess my question is, how far have tried to take this? The 9Z usually has more than one way to accomplish anything it can do.

Go over to the Pattern Forum and post a query for Troy Neuman. He knows the 9Z as well as anybody, and might have some insight into your problem.

red_z06

My Feedback: (11)

Steve:

Yes 9Z is old. I currently fly my planes with only one rate with 45deg deflection on elev, rudd and 30-35deg on aile. Only way I'm doing this now is to transfer model to 2nd 9z and remove tx module from the 2nd 9z and hope nobody pulls the buddy cord.

However, during my call to futaba tech, the tech also tested buddy box situation with 14mz and it had the same problem requiring 2nd 14mz to properly work expos and mixes (no excuse for a brand new radio)

I heard someone saying futaba 9c and 7c is much more buddy box friendly. I have not tested this so I can comment on it.

A biginner aerobatic pilot had JR 10x with JR Quantum 4ch buddy box. He wanted to fly his 35% Aero-Works Edge 540 on a buddy box. As you all know the JR buddy box is no computer radio so no model memory changing and etc. He simply plug it this $50 box to JR10x and immediately had control over 4 controls spread over 6channels and dual rates and expo was all working ( JR quattro has no dual rate switches ).

Can anyone verify that futaba 9c works as described above for JR?

Dyehard

How user friendly any system is depends on your requirements. You would like the buddy box to have all the settings of the master, without having to do any setup on the buddy transmitter. The 9Z won't do that. I, in the other hand, love the ability to mix the master transmitters control into the buddy control, making the training process somewhat more simuliar to how it is done in a full scale aircraft. The JRs wont do that. So it could be said that they both suck, they just suck in different ways to different people. Someday some company may make the perfect radio, that will do everything that every pilot wants. Till then you have to decide what features are most important and go with the radio that give you the majority of what you want. It may be time for a move to JR, ony you can decide. Me, I'll stick to my 9Z till the costs drops on the 14MZ or Futaba comes out with a much cheaper alternative.

Allen Dye

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

With the Futaba 7C, 9C, and 14MZ transmitters, you can have those units as the master transmitter. The airplane controlled by one of those units would be set up with the desired mixes, expos, whatever. When you set the various channels in the transmitter to "FUNC", you can use a basic transmitter as the trainer box, and all of the functions of the master transmitter can be used. This means that you can have two aileron servos on two different channels controlled by the master transmitter, and the aileron function of the trainer box will give control.

The 9Z-series of transmitter has a much older operating system that does not accomodate such ideas. They were first in the 8U series, which came out several years after the 9Z.

Please see our FAQ on the subject. It has not been updated yet to add the 14MZ, but the 14MZ functions like the 9C as far as the use of the "FUNC" option.

http://www.futaba-rc.com/faq/product-faq.html#q106

red_z06

My Feedback: (11)

bax:

That is a good news and bad. Good news that I don't have to abandone all my futaba gear and bad because I have to cough up $2200 for 14mz or maybe a 9c but I really don't want to give up any of the bells and whistles on my 9z so 14mz maybe only option.

Can you please confirm that 14mz indeed can work with silver futaba buddy box with square connector (dummy box)? A tech from futaba tried this while on the phone and could not get it to work.

Test setup;

standard 2 channel for aile and 2 channel for elev.
expo and dual rate setup on master

If a dummy box ( non computer buddy box ) can work the aile and elev and utilize expo and dual rate setup on master, I'll be satisfied.
In that note, can you also confirm 9c works on above as well?

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

red,

The 7C is indeed easier to "use" as a slave to the 9Z, since you can match up endpoints, etc., if need be. Unfortunately, it does not make provision for dual elevator servos. That hasn't been an issue from a buddy-box standpoint (for me), but it precludes using the radio as a spare/back-up.

Bax answered the function question; and the lack of dual elevator servo capability would render the 7C useless for your application anyway, red.

Shahid

Seems silly that for more money the 14 MZ lacks the Tach of the 9Z

Wheres the logic?

Another feature of ftuaba I dont get on the 9c is when you change models, the trainer fuction is deactivated. Thsi is supposed to be a safety feature?! I thought something was wrong until I read the manual and saw this is supposed to happen! Rather than increasing safety this seems to make it more unsafe for people who dont know about this as they may fly and find the student has no control.

Good thing we did the ground check and caught that one