Futaba 9C Knife-Edge Mix
09-13-2006, 09:36 AM
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Futaba 9C Knife-Edge Mix
I am trying to program a knife-edge mix in my Futaba 9C where I need a bit of up elevator during rudder application. My setup includes two elevator servos, two elevator channels (2 & 8), two aileron servos, two aileron channels (1 & 6), ailevator and flaperons enabled. When I use a linear mix (PROG.MIX5) to mix rudder with elevator, I do not get the ability to enable LINK. The LINK setting is not even displayed. Therefore, only the left elevator mixes in (channel 2) and the right elevator (channel 8) does not move at all during rudder application.
What is going on here? What do I need to do in order to be able to get a rudder to elevator mix that moves both elevators during application of the rudder?
What is going on here? What do I need to do in order to be able to get a rudder to elevator mix that moves both elevators during application of the rudder?
09-13-2006, 03:53 PM
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RE: Futaba 9C Knife-Edge Mix
You have another mix with teh link setting set.
You need to go back to your other mixes and make sure that the rudder mixes are put in first.
You need to go back to your other mixes and make sure that the rudder mixes are put in first.
09-14-2006, 07:42 AM
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RE: Futaba 9C Knife-Edge Mix
Couple of thoughts/questions here since Geist seems to be pretty well up to speed on this stuff... [8D]
I've got a 9C Super and have not tried this mix on it specifically, but on my 9ZAP WCII it is necessary to do two mixes in order for the rudder/elevator combo to work. This is because the rudder/elevator is not a predefined mix possibility in the radio so it doesn't automatically mix in the second elevator channel. It also requires you set each side with a deflection meter since two channels are being used.
The other thought/question is that IIRC the mixes are run in reverse priority when set up, i.e. mix #3 would be processed before mix #1 and any conflicts between those two would result in the mix #1 not working as #3 has priority.
Or have I got it all screwed up?
I've got a 9C Super and have not tried this mix on it specifically, but on my 9ZAP WCII it is necessary to do two mixes in order for the rudder/elevator combo to work. This is because the rudder/elevator is not a predefined mix possibility in the radio so it doesn't automatically mix in the second elevator channel. It also requires you set each side with a deflection meter since two channels are being used.
The other thought/question is that IIRC the mixes are run in reverse priority when set up, i.e. mix #3 would be processed before mix #1 and any conflicts between those two would result in the mix #1 not working as #3 has priority.
Or have I got it all screwed up?
09-14-2006, 08:14 AM
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RE: Futaba 9C Knife-Edge Mix
That's cool. I don;t know how you figured that out, but that's exactly what was going on. I had another mix bound to the elevators (harrier mix to the flaps). So, I un-LINKed that mix, that allowed the LINK option to display on my knife-edge mix, so I enabled that LINK. Then, I went back to my harrier mix and LINKed that one again. Now both mixes work correctly. Thanks a bunch Geistware!
The strange thing is, now even though both mixes work correctly, I (once again) do not see the LINK option in my knife-edge mix, even though the LINK option is enabled. Therefore, it does seem to be possible to have a LINK FROM a logical control surface and a LINK TO a logical control surface enabled at the same time. However, it seems that the 9C does not allow the CONFIGURATION of the two at the same time.
The strange thing is, now even though both mixes work correctly, I (once again) do not see the LINK option in my knife-edge mix, even though the LINK option is enabled. Therefore, it does seem to be possible to have a LINK FROM a logical control surface and a LINK TO a logical control surface enabled at the same time. However, it seems that the 9C does not allow the CONFIGURATION of the two at the same time.
09-14-2006, 12:11 PM
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RE: Futaba 9C Knife-Edge Mix
OK, Both of you guys have come across the one problem that I have with the 9C.
I am now in communication with Futaba on a problem I have with a dual rudder servo mix.
They can get it to work and I cannot. It has to be a link issue but I can't find the right combination and order to address all my mixes.
Futaba only allow the link menu option in a specific order. If you create mixes out of this order, then it will not work. I think that is what my problem is. I need to create mixes from PMIX 1 to PMIX 7 and only in that order. If I do it from PMIX 7 to PMIX 1, the links are not available in the needed order to get all the controls working properly. I haven't tested this yet so it is only a theory. Once I get it down and if this theory is proven as a fact, I will be contacting futaba again and explain that this is a bug. Futaba has installed my mixes in there radios and it works. What we did different is the order that the mixes were created. I want to get that done this week and test it over the weekend. We shall see.
I know this is more than you guys wanted to know but I am anal when it comes to RC.
Happy Flying!
I am now in communication with Futaba on a problem I have with a dual rudder servo mix.
They can get it to work and I cannot. It has to be a link issue but I can't find the right combination and order to address all my mixes.
Futaba only allow the link menu option in a specific order. If you create mixes out of this order, then it will not work. I think that is what my problem is. I need to create mixes from PMIX 1 to PMIX 7 and only in that order. If I do it from PMIX 7 to PMIX 1, the links are not available in the needed order to get all the controls working properly. I haven't tested this yet so it is only a theory. Once I get it down and if this theory is proven as a fact, I will be contacting futaba again and explain that this is a bug. Futaba has installed my mixes in there radios and it works. What we did different is the order that the mixes were created. I want to get that done this week and test it over the weekend. We shall see.
I know this is more than you guys wanted to know but I am anal when it comes to RC.
Happy Flying!
09-14-2006, 01:15 PM
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RE: Futaba 9C Knife-Edge Mix
Geistware;
Yes, I seem to experience the same issue. What would be your recommended solution; always display the LINK option in all linear mixes?
While you are at it, see if you can get them to include the TRIM option in the 5-point curve mixes.
Yes, I seem to experience the same issue. What would be your recommended solution; always display the LINK option in all linear mixes?
While you are at it, see if you can get them to include the TRIM option in the 5-point curve mixes.
09-14-2006, 07:24 PM
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RE: Futaba 9C Knife-Edge Mix
I will do what I can but I don't expect much to happen.
WHat I would like is for them to publish the sequence code for the PLC/micro device that is controlling the radio. That way I can see and understand the programming. No way to get this code changed unless it is done at Futaba Japan but I expect to them, things are sequential and no one is crazy enough to start with any mix other than Pmix1
WHat I would like is for them to publish the sequence code for the PLC/micro device that is controlling the radio. That way I can see and understand the programming. No way to get this code changed unless it is done at Futaba Japan but I expect to them, things are sequential and no one is crazy enough to start with any mix other than Pmix1
ORIGINAL: jkhorvath
Geistware;
Yes, I seem to experience the same issue. What would be your recommended solution; always display the LINK option in all linear mixes?
While you are at it, see if you can get them to include the TRIM option in the 5-point curve mixes.
Geistware;
Yes, I seem to experience the same issue. What would be your recommended solution; always display the LINK option in all linear mixes?
While you are at it, see if you can get them to include the TRIM option in the 5-point curve mixes.
09-15-2006, 11:15 AM
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RE: Futaba 9C Knife-Edge Mix
As I stated in the thread in the Futaba Support area, processing is sequential. You can link pmix 1->2 and down, but not pmix7->6 and up.
Also, sometimes, if you have one of the preset mixes being used (ailevator, flaperon), you can't do a link. You have to perform one of those mixes manually, like I did in the support thread.
Also, sometimes, if you have one of the preset mixes being used (ailevator, flaperon), you can't do a link. You have to perform one of those mixes manually, like I did in the support thread.
09-15-2006, 01:08 PM
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RE: Futaba 9C Knife-Edge Mix
Bill,
I am agree with this even thought I haven't put my exact program in my TX in the proper sequence.
If it works it works, but I am not really sure that it should make a difference.
In another life, I did a lot of PLC programming on Japanese production equipment and while I understand what is happening, Futaba Japan can make changes to eliminate this problem. While the actual code is correct, the scanning methodology used is the problem. Many US PLC's will scan the input registers, execute the code, the scan output registers to update the output. The Japanese (USE TO 1990's) scan inputs when they execute the code then update the output registers. This is what I see and supports what I have experienced in the past. It is a culture thing more than anything else.
For me, I like Futaba and have invested in Futaba so I guess I am suffering from brand loyalty
Knowing what the problem is helps a lot. Just need to go back in and re-enter all my information in the proper sequence.
I am agree with this even thought I haven't put my exact program in my TX in the proper sequence.
If it works it works, but I am not really sure that it should make a difference.
In another life, I did a lot of PLC programming on Japanese production equipment and while I understand what is happening, Futaba Japan can make changes to eliminate this problem. While the actual code is correct, the scanning methodology used is the problem. Many US PLC's will scan the input registers, execute the code, the scan output registers to update the output. The Japanese (USE TO 1990's) scan inputs when they execute the code then update the output registers. This is what I see and supports what I have experienced in the past. It is a culture thing more than anything else.
For me, I like Futaba and have invested in Futaba so I guess I am suffering from brand loyalty
Knowing what the problem is helps a lot. Just need to go back in and re-enter all my information in the proper sequence.
ORIGINAL: Bax
As I stated in the thread in the Futaba Support area, processing is sequential. You can link pmix 1->2 and down, but not pmix7->6 and up.
Also, sometimes, if you have one of the preset mixes being used (ailevator, flaperon), you can't do a link. You have to perform one of those mixes manually, like I did in the support thread.
As I stated in the thread in the Futaba Support area, processing is sequential. You can link pmix 1->2 and down, but not pmix7->6 and up.
Also, sometimes, if you have one of the preset mixes being used (ailevator, flaperon), you can't do a link. You have to perform one of those mixes manually, like I did in the support thread.
05-21-2011, 09:03 AM
#10
RE: Futaba 9C Knife-Edge Mix
Wow I found this thread in a search. Old but good. Had this same problem at the field yesterday with my 10C (knife edge mixing with two elevator servos). I was lookng for the link option in the pmix screen and couldn't find it. I hope what I found in this thread works.
Edit: It works. All you have to do is turn the link off in the elevator pmix, then the link appears in the rudder to elevator pmix....so turn it on there. Now go back and turn the link back on in the elevator pmix. What's weird is the link will disappear from the rudder to elevator pmix but it will work now.
Edit: It works. All you have to do is turn the link off in the elevator pmix, then the link appears in the rudder to elevator pmix....so turn it on there. Now go back and turn the link back on in the elevator pmix. What's weird is the link will disappear from the rudder to elevator pmix but it will work now.
