Capt Jim

My Feedback: (168)

Something just doesn't seem right about this. Here we have Spektrum, a relatively unknown company carrying the market away with its new DX-7 2.4 ghz radio system. It comes as a wonderful relief from frequency conflicts, ignition intereference, etc etc. The demand for it appears to be enormous, and the AMA has used it, tested it, and given it their blessing. So, with this kind of a market for it...where is Futaba...where is JR...where is Hitec and Airtronics, etc etc.
It is difficult to believe that these larger companies simply can't perform in the 2.4 ghz arena.
It is equally difficult to believe that they just didn't think there was a sufficient demand for it.
With all of the wonderful benefits to be had at 2.4 ghz....where are the big guys?
From the big guys, I keep hearing..."we are working on it".
Well in the meantime, I'd say Spektrum is eating their lunch!
I bought a DX7, and now I'm ordering a bunch of extra receivers to re-radio all the planes in my hangar.
Does anyone really know the real story about this odd turn of events in the R/C radio business?

exeter_acres

My Feedback: (2)

psssst.. Spektrum IS JR

Thomas B

My Feedback: (4)

Futaba seems rather high in corporate inertia . Look how far behind they were on sub micro park flyer stuff.......they just recently got 2.4 gig radios for cars on the market.....have heard that Futaba 2.4 gig airplane radios are coming next year.

Hitec is bound to be qorking in it, too. Airtronics seems a little out of the mainstream these days.

Spectrum is not EXACTLY the same orginization as JR, but they do seem to share genetic material.....In any case with Spektrum, JR is covered in the 2.4 arena.

If they refuse to do TX modules for existing radios, Futaba and Hitec deserve very severe verbal and internet abuse...

I just bought a DX-7...and this hard core Futaba guy likes it..

Silent-AV8R

PSSST. No, not really.

Spektrum is a wholly owned subsidiary of Horizon. Horizon is NOT a JR company, they simply are the North American distributor of JR products. Spektrum/Horizon does buy the TX shells and servos from JR, much like the Tower brand of radios is largely a Futaba product. The important thing is that they are NOT the same company and have no relationship beyond one (Spektrum) buying some parts from the other (JR).

In fact, you can take it one step farther and ask yourself if perhaps the reason that Spektrum says they will not make a module is that they have an agreement with JR not to. That way, when JR comes out with their SS module there is no conflict.

pilotpete2

Hitec stated earlier in the year that their gameplan for 2.4Ghz was in going with the module approach, I hope to see that come to pass. Where I fly 72MHz is very clean, and we don't have that many active flying members, so I can afford to sit on the sidelines and see what develops, not in a hurry to be an early adopter

ira d

When you consider the fact that the the spektrum radios are made by JR in the same
factory that the other JR radios or made in that tells us they know how to make 2.4ghz
radios.

I suppect they have a different systems waiting in the wings but desided to let horizon
test market the current system first. i think in the next 2-3 years all the major mfrs will have some type of 2.4 ghz systems on the market.

sarawnty

Maybe they are working on 5.8 ghz systems?
Steve

carrellh

I guess I’ll wait and see these things in the field before I consider jumping in. I can see where frequency conflicts might be avoided but I don’t totally buy the hype of ‘no more interference.’

I have a 2.4ghz spread spectrum cordless phone. It hisses, pops, buzzes, drops calls, etc. Most people I know have similar issues with their cordless phones.

I’m no electronics expert, but, if the phone makers cannot get it right for something that has a very small and slow amount of movement; I have a hard time seeing this as the holy grail that will end all model airplane radio issues.

How will we explain crashes?
“I was hit!!!�
“No, you have the holy grail of radios, it was definitely pilot error.�
“How can that be? All of my other 50 crashes were radio hits.�

Capt Jim

My Feedback: (168)

Hi Carrellh...heh heh..I got a laugh out of your (crash cause) humor.
You do bring up an interesting point regarding the cordless home phones and their sometimes poor performance, and how that seems to relate to our new Spektrum systems.
If they are indeed both operating on the same 2.4 ghz, then I guess I am hoping that there is a significant difference in performance between the phones and the aircraft systems.
Can we get someone to comment on that?
The Spektrun DX6 systems have been flying reliably in park flyers for quite some time now, so with the appearance of the dual receiver DX7 system, I expect the same or better reliability with this new system.
I'm looking for mine to arrive on monday...we will soon see!

rmh

Hay sus
comparing these setups with cell phones is simply --a very interesting comparison.
Let's see
men eat meat
dogs eat meat
therefore
men are dogs.--

Capt Jim

My Feedback: (168)

Ho Ho Ho...ROFLMAO...Dick..I love it!
And I am comforted by that observation.
jim

carrellh

I did not mention cell phones. I wrote about 2.4 ghz cordless home phones. Base unit in the living room and a handset 20 feet away in the bedroom.
One example phone:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1134703758909
Panasonic 2.4GHz Cordless Phone with Digital Answering System and Call-Waiting Caller ID
Model: KX-TG2632B
2.4GHz frequency-hopping spread spectrum (FHSS) technology provides low interference as well as enhanced range, security and clarity.

Just walking through the house with the handset; there is crackling, buzzing, and sometimes the line goes dead.

Maybe the RC guys know something the phone people do not know.

Maybe there is more than one kind of 2.4 ghz spread spectrum. I do not know. The DX6 reportedly works well and the DX7 probably will too. But, I do believe expecting all radio interference issues to be eliminated is expecting too much.

exeter_acres

My Feedback: (2)

I think most of our wives would say that is completely accurate

rmh

I have two 2.4 GHZ home fones - One is a Panasonic Extreme I bought 4-5 years ago - (two little antenna on the base)
It's base is in my basement TV ruckus room- My house has all aluminum sheathing (built in 79)-so worst case scenario for signals
I have been talking on the fone - -gone out - got in my big ol Chev van - and kept up a clear signal conversation for almost 1/4 mile from the house .
then ther be Cell fones --are only as good as the cell locations around town
My cell is on TMobile - works anywhere -
ATT and some others are simply worthless here.
The little 6 Spektrum was our first mad dash into 2.4 RC stuf - we stuck the rx in a Diablotin with an altimeter aboard
flew it up to 1900 ft above the field - too small to see very well
it worked perfectly - I flew it in several models -never a peep of interferrence.
actually 72 mhz is a cesspool of signals and ignition radiation is very likely to hit it if there is a poor ground/etc..

personally I am glad to out of it-tho I only used it on foamies. I use Ham 53.xx for other stuf -
good riddance to bad rubbish--
.

k3 valley flyer

My Feedback: (18)

Yes, really. Spektrum is a "Brand Name" owned by Horizon not a separate subsidiary. Big difference. Horizon has JR manufacture the Spektrum line for them, do you really think this is not a well thought out "marketing strategy" by JR and Horizon? It amazes me how little most people on these forums really know about the corporate structures of companies in the hobby industry and the relative size of the distributors compared to the manufactures in the radio and engine line products. JR and especially Futaba are huge Japanese companies that main product lines have nothing to do with RC. Horizon could not afford to lose the JR product line and would not be marketing Spektrum name without JR's blessing. Futaba is usually last to market with new RC technologies because it represents such a very small portion of their sales.

Silent-AV8R

More of a semantic difference than anything else. Sears used to have Snap-On tools make Craftsman tools and Maytag made Kenmore appliances. By your logic they had a unified marketing strategy rather than a simple vendor/customer relationship. But it still remains that Spektrum is NOT owned by JR. JR does get a benefit by selling pieces and doing assembly work for Spektrum however.

Futaba makes the Tower brand of radio equipment. I sincerely doubt that it is anything except a business relationship there either.

In fact I suspect that the relationship with JR and Horizon is the reason that Spektrum does not plan to offer modules for converting existing radios to SS. I'll bet that JR comes out with those!! Perhaps under license from Spektrum since Spektrum did the actual development.



Let's see, last to market with:

Synthesized transmitters and receivers - JR
Full software controlled (non-mechanical) frequency selection - JR
2048PCM - JR and everyone else. Remains to be seen if PCM-A is 2048 or something different.
Full function top of the line radio (heli/glider/airplane) - JR (not available)
Full switch and function assignment capability - JR (only partially)
Synthesized ham band radios - JR (not available)
Digital trims - JR


Point is that it is not really accurate to say that Futaba is last to market with innovations in the RC world. It is true that JR was first with solid state gyros, but they lost that market to Futaba due to a lack of innovation and features.

BillS

To my disappointment the 5.8 GHz phones purchased last Christmas have considerably less range than the 2.4 GHz phones requiring the use of both sets in the house.

Bill

k3 valley flyer

My Feedback: (18)

If you believe the difference between a brand name and a subsidiary is only semantic then there is no need to discuss it further, from a legal and business stand point there are great differences. I was not saying I preferred JR over Futaba or that JR was better, in fact have always used Futaba myself though my son uses JR, and both have been excellent products. The point is 2.4 will eventually obsolete the current 72mz product lines. Spektrum is a way for JR to introduce a new technology and not kill the sales of their existing product lines overnight. The new 7202 JR line and Sketrum sharing the same case is not by accident. JR is probably planing manufacturing reductions in volume of current product lines as they ramp up production of 2.4 products yet to come so they don't get hung with large inventories of obsolete product. I do not buy into the hype from Horizon that they developed Spektrum etc etc etc. Horizon does not posses the capability or resources necessary to do the R&D necessary to bring electronic equipment to market. At most Hozizon has done the field testing on Spektrum, some of which occurred at our local field 2 years ago. Sketrum is a joint marketing scheme of JR and Horizon to bring a new technology to market and not lose lots of money on current inventories of RC radios on 72mz, ie the old technology. Nothing wrong with that, just good business, but recognize it for what it is.

Silent-AV8R

OK, Spektrum is a secret plot by Horizon and JR to cleverly enhance JR's market share. JR asked Horizon to make up a brand name under which JR could sell it's new line of SS radios while depleting their stock of non-SS radios. You say that JR/Spektrum is nothing more than GM/Chevrolet and I think it is more Kenmore/Maytag. In the end it does not really mater.

My response about Futaba was not trying to say that either was better. You made a statement that Futaba is late to the game with new innovations. I simply pointed out that it was not an accurate statement. If anything, JR appears to be the company that is not very innovative. Rarely do their products break new ground. That is unless you believe that Spektrum is really JR and is a name Horizon made up to sell this new JR product that is.

It will not take long for all of the majors to have SS radios of their own out. Brand loyalty will likely still shape the market as it does today. How long it takes for 72 to disappear is anyone's guess. I think longer than you might think. It will take a while for people to get rid of their stuff. Just look around at how many low end radios there are and ask yourself how fast a guy flying a basic 4 or 6 channel radio in his sport plane is going to buy a new radio and all the receivers he needs.

rockom

My Feedback: (2)

You can't compare 2.4GHz phones to 2.4GHz RC radios....it's not an apples to apples comparison. Without getting into all the details (because I don't know them ) voice and data connections can be vastly different. Especially with the small amount of data being transmitter in RC. (Yes, with digital networks, many phone systems are digital....most of the time. ) In addition, if data is garbled, your Rx is smart enough to ignore that channel and pick it up in the next packet. It's so fast you will never notice. A more important topic/debate is, how does your 2.4GHz RC system work in environment full of "other" 2.4GHz traffic. So far so good.

-Rocko

k3 valley flyer

My Feedback: (18)

Believe me, Spektrum is a name created by JR and Horizon to reduce the "Brand name equity risk" of bringing a new technology to the RC market place. The Horizon JR relationship is not like either GM/Chevrolet or Sears Kenmore/Whirlpool, (Maytag did produce some Kenmore products for Sears but not the bulk of it, I know because my son was an engineer for Maytag). Chevrolet is a division of GM, Sears contracts to purchase Kenmore labeled product from various manufactures. Horizon is a distributor of JR products, there is a difference and if not understood what those differences are you get the tail wagging the dog. I will give you that Horizon does own the Spektrum brand name and that makes it more like the Sears Kenmore products. I agree it will hopefully be many years before the FCC issues a regulation requiring manufacturers to produce only 2.4 radios for the US rc market and makes 72mz illegal for rc use, thus voiding AMA coverage if you have a claim while using 72mz. My fear is it will come to fast.

Silent-AV8R

We see this differently then. My information is that Horizon and Mr. Beard created the Spektrum name. They then formed a company using that name under the corporate umbrella of Horizon. Given Horizon's relationship with JR and JR's known ability to produce quality products, it was only natural to form a business relationship with JR to produce the Spektrum radios under contract. My thoughts are that this contract spells out what Spektrum can and cannot do to a certain degree. Producing removable modules is likely not allowed. I think that when JR comes out with their SS stuff it will first be a module based solution probably produced using the Spektrum technology.

So yes, I recognize the close relationship, but I see JR's involvement as being different from how you do.

BTW - I doubt the FCC will make RC hobby use of the 72 and 50 MHz bands illegal. As it stands right now we are secondary users anyhow and our use of the bands does not play into FCC decisions. If a primary user were to set up shop next to your field and run a tower transmitting on full frequency across the band at high power (or whatever their license allowed) then your field would be SOL since the primary user has full rights. We get to use parts of the band and have to live with any interference that comes from primary users. And we have to make sure we do not cause any interference to the primary users.

k3 valley flyer

My Feedback: (18)

I hope you are correct that the FCC does not take 72mz away for RC use, I have alot of equipment on 72mz that functions very well and has many more years of use in it. All I know for sure is that the Horizon web site lists Spektrum as a registered "brand name" of Horizon. I have not found anywhere that it is a separate division or subsidiary of Horizon or has been incorporated as a separate company. Both Horizon and Tower/Hobbico sell many products under their own brand names, but these products are not separate legal entities from Horizon and Tower, believe this to be the same case with the Spektrum product.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Cap, big MFGs get big by being innovative and keeping ahead of everyone else, but when they get big, bean counters step in and stifle research in favor of profits. So, somebody who has more to gain takes a chance and in this case wins big time. Mine will be here tomorrow.

Capt Jim

My Feedback: (168)

I have mine already, and what a wonderful piece of engineering this really is. No more long whip antenna to be broken off, or poke someone, or maybe meet with a spinning prop. It actually knows if you have selected the correct model out of its 20 model memories, and prevents any operation if you selected the wrong one. It listens before transmitting, so it doesn't interefere with anyone else. It is immune to all kinds of radio intereference. There is just so much good to say about it...I am thrilled to see it finally arrive on the scene. Of course you can no longer say..."Oh..I've been hit!". Dumb thumbs will truly become exposed now.
Having been a long time Futaba user...the programming is a little different, but nothing radical...just a different set of instructions, which so far seem to be quite user friendly.
Yep...I'm real pleased with mine! I Just cant wait for the extra receivers to arrive.
Happy Holidays.
Jim