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Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement

Old 04-30-2007, 07:40 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement

Agreed Xcellheli, price is good compared with the 12z, but I was expecting somewhere $300 less since the press release listed one of the features being "Priced lower than other 12-channel radios!" (cut and pasted from the first page of this thread). Oh well, guess I was expecting too much


Here's the EVO with RX for $699 currently.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXEXV8&P=7

ORIGINAL: xcellheli

Tower has the pricing up for all but the 2.4 gigahertz versions of the 12FG. At 999.99 (I assume the 2.4 version will be the same) it looks like an awsome deal.
Old 04-30-2007, 10:14 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement

Aviti

Got news for you,that was not photoshoped,it came directily off Futaba website,,no more then a couple of weeks ago,now i see they changed the picture of the Radio on there Site

NdFrSpeed
Old 05-01-2007, 06:39 AM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement

Aviti is correct, it was photoshoped by Futaba to give us a picture of what may come. What we see now on their sight is the final product. A 12FG with a module in it.

I was hoping for a more complete system, though they say it works as well as a dedicated radio so that will be determined.
Old 05-01-2007, 08:39 AM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement

Am I missing something here or .. aren't ALL Futaba's Module based? Even the 72mhz ones.. Take out the Module and the Tx doesn't transmit. The only difference as far as I can see is the location of the antenna????
Old 05-01-2007, 10:17 AM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement


ORIGINAL: NdFrSpeed

Aviti

Got news for you,that was not photoshoped,it came directily off Futaba website,,no more then a couple of weeks ago,now i see they changed the picture of the Radio on there Site

NdFrSpeed
My post was based on info I got from the Futaba representative. Where did you get your info? Oh, I see, you just saw the pic and assumed it was so. You know what they say about assuming. Maybe do a search and see that this question was asked and answered before trying to tell me I'm wrong. Further more, when you do want to disagree, it might be a little more polite to just state your opinion rather than starting off with "Got news for you". Now if you still think you know what you are talking about here, then please call Hobbico and ask them.
Old 05-01-2007, 11:07 AM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement


ORIGINAL: aviti


ORIGINAL: NdFrSpeed

Aviti

Got news for you,that was not photoshoped,it came directily off Futaba website,,no more then a couple of weeks ago,now i see they changed the picture of the Radio on there Site

NdFrSpeed
My post was based on info I got from the Futaba representative. Where did you get your info? Oh, I see, you just saw the pic and assumed it was so. You know what they say about assuming. Maybe do a search and see that this question was asked and answered before trying to tell me I'm wrong. Further more, when you do want to disagree, it might be a little more polite to just state your opinion rather than starting off with "Got news for you". Now if you still think you know what you are talking about here, then please call Hobbico and ask them.
Well I am happy to know more about the new Futaba radio now .




This new radio seems very interesting to me. The antena location don't bother me as most but the possibility of latency due to the radio thinking in FM 72 mhz and then module then having to convert that into 2.4 ghz do bother me. Now Futaba tells everybody that this is not an issue so I don't know who to listen to...

I think that it is what makes people stay away from this system (the added computing required before sending a signal to the receiver). This area is still confused to me.

Can I feel the difference I don't know. I do know that every time I put better equipment in my planes, my flying kept getting better hence the importance of making sure the new Futaba is better than older Futaba...
Old 05-01-2007, 12:54 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement

ORIGINAL: 3D Joy


The antena location don't bother me as most but the possibility of latency due to the radio thinking in FM 72 mhz and then module then having to convert that into 2.4 ghz do bother me. Now Futaba tells everybody that this is not an issue so I don't know who to listen to...
There is no "FM" or 72MHZ in the radio, it's in the 72 MHz FM module that you removed to switch to 2.4GHz
Having the 2.4GHz RF section in a removeable module has no bearing on the latency of the system, it's all in how the radio processes that data and how fast the processing is of any mixing functions.
Pete
Old 05-01-2007, 01:05 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement

So all the talking about latency is nonsense and really not an issue??
Old 05-01-2007, 01:41 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement

As I understand things there's an amount of latency in every system. The Tx processes your commands via the pots on the sticks and levers and dials etc. This is then converted into transmissable information and goes out onto the air waves via the module. Since this doesn't happen at the speed of light there is a lag of sorts. The only way to get close to no latency is to have a mechanical connection to your plane, Like a puppet. even then there is a certain amount of latency.

I think latency may have become one of those buzz words that has little practical meaning in the real world..if not.. then I'd like a good explaination as to why not.
Old 05-01-2007, 01:45 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement

Not at all, just that latency is something that has existed in radios all along, some worse than others, such as my 9Cs that is know to have a lot of latency in mixes such as used in dual elevator servo. Servo mapping and faster processing is the key to this problem and the new Futaba 12/14 ch radios use channel mapping just as the DX7 uses to address the latency issue.
As far as the perception that the DX7 is noticably "faster" than a conventional FM/PPM system, well I feel that the speed of the servos is way more critical, and anyone who gets a new DX7 and plops it in a new plane with the digital servos that came with the radio and proclaims how fast and locked in it feels is a bit confused, the only valid test would be to fly a plane on 72MHz that you are very familiar with, then pull the receiver and install the AR7000, then see if the plane is more "faster" and more "locked in" feeling.
Pete
Old 05-01-2007, 01:51 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement

Hi Bob,
Now there's a good reason to go back to U-control but at my age I think I'd get too dizzy
I wonder how much "latency" there is in the 'fly by wire" systems in the F22 Raptor???
Pete
Old 05-01-2007, 01:54 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement

Ya know Pete the problem with "feelings" is that they are just that.. feelings. It's like washing your car and you notice how much better it drives. The only way to analyse things is to collect data in the form of a send/recieve time line and data transmission from the Tx to the Rx and look at the numbers. You don't even need servos to do that in fact they should be left out of the equation. Any thing else is just a feeling.

Pete don't you remember how the wind used to tug on those wires .. thats probably latency too!
Old 05-03-2007, 06:20 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement

Price posted on Tower for the 72mhz version.

999.99

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXRTL2&P=0
Old 05-04-2007, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement

There is no "FM" or 72MHZ in the radio, it's in the 72 MHz FM module that you removed to switch to 2.4GHz
Having the 2.4GHz RF section in a removeable module has no bearing on the latency of the system, it's all in how the radio processes that data and how fast the processing is of any mixing functions.
Pete
I'm not sure that's true. At least in the case of the XPS module system there is an addition of 20-30ms of latency compared with the PPM stream alone. I would imagine that the Futaba module systems would work about the same way and would therefore have a similar amount of latency added for the conversion to a digital 2.4ghz signal from the ppm stream.

Also, does anyone know what the resolution of the Futaba system is? I'm sure Futaba does, but they don't seem to be talking about it. They go on and on about the 2048 resolution of the G3 PCM, but I haven't seen anything about resolution of FAAST so I'm guessing that it must not be that great. This is as important as latency IMHO.


DK
Old 05-04-2007, 10:42 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement

ORIGINAL: DKflyer

There is no "FM" or 72MHZ in the radio, it's in the 72 MHz FM module that you removed to switch to 2.4GHz
Having the 2.4GHz RF section in a removeable module has no bearing on the latency of the system, it's all in how the radio processes that data and how fast the processing is of any mixing functions.
Pete
I'm not sure that's true. At least in the case of the XPS module system there is an addition of 20-30ms of latency compared with the PPM stream alone. I would imagine that the Futaba module systems would work about the same way and would therefore have a similar amount of latency added for the conversion to a digital 2.4ghz signal from the ppm stream.

Also, does anyone know what the resolution of the Futaba system is? I'm sure Futaba does, but they don't seem to be talking about it. They go on and on about the 2048 resolution of the G3 PCM, but I haven't seen anything about resolution of FAAST so I'm guessing that it must not be that great. This is as important as latency IMHO.

DK
The Futaba FASST system has a reported resolution of 32,768 steps

http://2.4gigahertz.com/modules/modules-receivers.html (bottom of page)

BTW - even the XPS website acknowledges this resolution.

In addition, latency issues are not an issue. Consider that the other module vendors have to use cables connected to the trainer port for the 12 and 14 while Futaba does not and you see that Futaba knows something about their radios that others do not. As far as the Futaba radios using Futaba FASST modules goes there is NO difference between the module radio and the "built-in" radio (6EX).

Performance is reported to be as good or better than the G3 systems as far latency and "connected feeling" goes.

Hope that helps

Old 12-31-2008, 08:32 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement

Quote: "latency may have become one of those buzz words that has little practical meaning in the real world.."
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________

Most rifles are more accurate than whoever is shooting them.
The "latency" of the human brain is greater than the few milliseconds
latency in today's radios. To repeat a comment in this thread:
"What's the latency in the F-22 "fly-by-wire" system?
Regards
JC (FASST FLIER)
Old 12-31-2008, 09:02 PM
  #67  
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Default RE: Futaba 12FG Press Release Announcement


ORIGINAL: JCINTEXAS

Quote: "latency may have become one of those buzz words that has little practical meaning in the real world.."
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________

Most rifles are more accurate than whoever is shooting them.
The "latency" of the human brain is greater than the few milliseconds
latency in today's radios. To repeat a comment in this thread:
"What's the latency in the F-22 "fly-by-wire" system?
Regards
JC (FASST FLIER)
ZACTLY........and Dick says it best when he says you need a super duper fast 3D Heli with high end digitals to even begin to feel it.............

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