tsague

My Feedback: (11)

Anyone having problems with the DX7, or am I the only one crashing planes (2) in a month and a half? Both planes completely, new everything. Had one rx. to go bad while breaking in a new evolution 26cc gas engine sitting on a table. Horizon says, all my fault, battery issues, even both batteries were new, one was a JR and my Tx can't be within four foot of the plane. One plane flew aprox. 10 times and the other flew 3 times. John Adams at Horizon told me, when a battery reaches 4.8 volts, it is NOT safe to fly and using my Triton charger was NOT such a good choice. Any comments?

rmh

yeh - he is right -on the voltage -as for the charger -who knows what you are doing with it .
there is a learning curve required on the battery and the radio and the servos and how YOU choose to use all of this as a unit .
On this hobby one must accept that the responsibility of how a product is used , lies with the user.
It is not Playstation.
If you goof up -you will pay for your mistakes
The load YOU put on the servos is your choice and if you use the basic 4.8 battery and then setup an aerobatic models using the servos which came with the set -- you will go thru power (battery) like shi-t thru a goose.
you must monitor each flight till you learn what the power usage is in your particular case .
Get an knowledgeable, experienced flyer and ask him how this all relates .
Save yourself further trouble.

bruce88123

Dick - can you tell me where it says any of this in the manual? If the system is so sensitive to low power perhaps it should be supplied with a better battery from the factory.

How many planes should a beginner expect to lose before he figures this all out on his own? Not all beginners are fortunate enough to have "an knowledgeable, experienced flyer" available. Is there a warning label on the box or something that says "for use by knowledgeable pilots only"?

rino

My Feedback: (121)

Did the rx that died on the bench just quit and never come back? Was it just a bad unit?

Also, was size was the 4.8 volt pack? Did you actually fly at 4.8 volts or close to that?

What kind of planes did you crash? What servos were you using?

The Triton is a good charger if you set it up right. It does what any other computer charger is going to do and you have a lot of flexibility in how you charge.

rmh

Welcome to LIFE 101
The warnings you see which say "this is not a toy", should be heeded .
One of the BIG problems in the hobby, is the proliferation of shi-t that can be taken from the box to the field and then -hopefully flown by the exited newcomer.
This attitude of turn key/buy n fly, creates an understanding that all of the equipment is a "toy".
Not so .
If you want to use technical equipment -- learn about it - then use it .

B58

My Feedback: (43)

I disagree. I did have a DX-7, and flew it in a turbine boomer. No problems at all, but I am not using it anymore because of problems other people have had. I read all the things about voltage, and used dual 2000 ma packs. However, if a system has a particular requirement for a certain voltage or capacity battery, why on earth would it be shipped with one that was inadaquate. It would be better to put a caution in the manual, and ship with no airborne pack. Spektrum was caught by surprise on this, and so far their fix seems to be to just blame the user, even though they are using what was supplied with the new system. That is not the way to do it. Bob

rmh

Strange -you have no problems yet rely on on others opinions--
The system was packaged as a basic system-which will work in a basic smaller sport or trainer model.
No one sells a system with high energy batteries -
From a marketing standpoint , the object is to sell the system at the best price .
How can one predict the configuration of the model ,assembled by the buyer?
Do you really expect that the radio was designed to work ONLY with a small battery and 4 sport servos?
If so -- did you use the system for a small sport model?
No you put it in a turbine model.
Figuring out the parameters for batteries in a given application is not that hard .
If you do have a turbine setup -and you did the setup --the thinking required to successfully fly it , are far above the analysis required to provide proper battery power .
-

bruce88123

Dick, it doesn't take much smarts to figure that if you sell a radio with a 4.8 volt battery that stops running when the battery reaches 4.8 volts you are selling a disaster waiting to happen. Throw in 4 digital servos like they (Spektrum) do and it's guaranteed.

BTW- I do read the tech manuals that come with the multi-million dollar test benches that I work with every day. And the tech that services one of them went to France for 4 weeks for special training on the unit. We weren't given a piece of crap and told "Good luck, if it doesn't work it's your fault".

rmh

When a 4.8 v battery reaches 4.8 v - it is not capable of sustaining much servo draw - that has been true for the over 30 years I have used them -
Having written tech manuals for industrial equipment as well as hobby stuff- I do realize that fewer buyers read them.
At one time it was assumed that the radio control hobby took some technical knowledge .
Learning how to properly use the equipment was part of the enjoyment. (still is for me !)
I guess that day is past -for some --------------
too bad

Pile-O-Wood

Dick, do you mean when it reaches 4.7 vdc the battery is 90% discharged.

rino

My Feedback: (121)

Total marketing screw up by Horizon.

B58

My Feedback: (43)

You can beat me up if you want, and yes, I did do research before trusting a $5000 airplane to a $300 radio in the DX-7. However, take your average new guy, walks into a hobby shop, buys a trainer for himself and his son. He also picks up a new shiny DX-7 that is packaged with a battery pack that is too small for the servos suppied with the radio, and a charger that takes twice as long as it should to charge the transmitter. You don't think that is a problem in the making? I have been in RC for over 30 years and have seen it progress to what it is today. The equipment is better than ever by far, but I still expect the manufacturers to market a useable system, and if a mistake was made, correct it by changing to larger batteries, or whatever it takes. I have been using JR for years, and done a lot of business with HH. Always happy with what I got. So I believe they will fix this. But meantime I am flying the extreme system. Happy with it so far, and it works at far below normal battery voltages. nuf said. Bob

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

What kind and size of battery would you like to see sold with the radio?. For me I only buy the transmitter. I fly 40% size and don't expect JR to supply the kind of batteries that I need with the radio. If I bought a DX-7 and used the servo's supplied in my planes and lost the plane due to servo trouble would it be JR fault or mine. We have the DX-7 flying jets at our field with no problems. You ajust the system to fit your needs. I have the 9303 on back order, but only the transmitter can't use the other stuff in my planes. You can't blame everything on someone else all the time. Dennis

B58

My Feedback: (43)

Hope that wasn't meant for me. Not trying to blame anyone for anything. I think if you supply a system with servos that requires a 2000ma battery, then that is what should be in the box if anything is. It would be better to just state the requirements for the system and let the customer pick his own batteries, servos, or whatever. I also use other servos, batteries, and usually switchs too. I think I am done with this one. Too many people have too strong a feelings. Bob, AMA 6098

rmh

Just to clear up a point -- the tx and rx require very little current - very very little .
The operating voltage minimum voltage of th rx is aprox 3.5 volts (PLEASE - no sharpshooting)
when the current draw of the servos used causes a VOLTAGE depression to below 4 volts - you are asking for trouble with this system.
So - the 4.8 batt which came with the system will do th job-provided the servos are not loaded or overextended timewise.

this is 2007-

the new servos -from any mfgr -rated above 50 inch ounces of torque , suck up a lot more current than stuff sold a few years ago.
The batteries -also need to be examined for instant current draw as well as total amp hr rating.
Ask about impedance ratings as well as milliamperhour ratings .
it is up to the user to properly match battery and servo APPLICATION.
Improper combos can and will draw cells far below intended levels .

tomlee

My Feedback: (1)

Gee whiz guys, when I bought my DX-7, I installed the whole shot in a 60 size airplane and went flying. I don't see what all of the comotion is about. I do field charge before I start my day and if I fly several times, I check the batt voltage and recharge like I have always done.

I still fly several AR-6000's in my airplanes that I was using with my sperktrumized 6102.

And ever so often, I put my DX-7 on the the charger that was included at least overnight and sometimes over a weekend.

Now, all that being said, when I fly one of my 120 airplanes, I naturally upsize the radio gear accordingly. for example, my 120 Tiger with a YS 120, AR-6000 receiver, 6 or 7 Hitec 635 servos, and 5 cell NIMH battery about 2100 mh.

Cheers--Tom

Pile-O-Wood

Sounds like someone who knows and understands how to size batterys to the application for a change!!

B58

My Feedback: (43)

The only point I was trying to make, and got jumped on for it, is that some people don't know how to size batteries. They expect whatever is in the box to work with that system. We have learned over a period of time to make choices based on experience, but what about the newby? And that is what this radio is priced and targeted to. I give up. Bob

rino

My Feedback: (121)

Obviously this is a circular conversation that is way too much fun to just sit and read. Look, the DS821 servos are good for a 60 to 90 sized plane according to Horizon. I called them and confirmed this and they state it very clearly. It would be natural for anyone new to the hobby to take the DX7 package and slap it as is into a 60 to 90 sized plane. So, joe user slaps them in his 90 sized plane and goes out and crashes.

The battery that is being sold in the DX7 package is not sized correctly for the 4 digital servos that come with the system if being used with the type of aircraft the servos were designed to handle. The 1100 4.8 volt battery cannot handle the 4 DS821's stalled. It does not have the PROPER OUTPUT RATING for the application it is being sold for so stop defending Horizon. Some of you guys sound like you work for Horizon or something.

And the next thing, you guys with your 20x years of experience that expect everyone to have the knowledge that you do are not thinking straight. Components sold as a package should work well together for their intended use. 60 to 90 sized servos should get a battery that can handle the job for that sized plane. If not, Horizon has a responsibility to educate it's customers at least a little on what the limitations of the system are: Like "Battery is crap and we just sent it to you becuase we had to put something in the box so throw it away immediately and buy a good one" or "battery should only be used for a 40 sized trainer" - and that would be stretching in a bit.

Let's just call a spade a spade and move on here.

rmh

learning to use proper sized batteries was one of the FIRST things I was taught in 1970, when I got my first porportional system. The servos which come with the DX7,by the way -work perfectly in the wings of a 33% aerobat -
the battery - works fine too -but as the ignition battery.
My rx packs are made from A123 cells - which I know is Greek to many at the moment -- but they are 2300ma and have a output capability of up to 60 amps
just for the record --I use 4 of these as power cells in my Diamante -and the thing goes like stink - the rx is the DX7000- fed power by a outboard switching BEC to make sure the rx sees adequate voltage..
and BIG pack of these little cells propel a motorcycle and rider, thru the 1/4 mile at 146 mph in 9 sec.
there are lots of battery choices out there
just look around--------

P-40 DRIVER

I will say that anybody running a 26cc gas plane on a stock setup has not done their homework. A stock radio setup is designed for 40-60 size sport plane and nothing more, anything else and you will need to configure your setup to the requirements of the plane in question. The is a complex hobby, with a very steep learning curve which is why alot of us are in it. Its not a hobby for people who want to buy and fly especially when you get into the bigger stuff. The DX7 is a new product and with most new products their are potencial issues that come up such as the receiver voltage threshhold issue discussed to death on this forum. You have a tremendous amount of knowledge out there at your disposal. I would do some reading before venturing into the unknown no matter what you are doing. I'm sure Dick Hansen and others would have been glad to discuss your setup on your planes prior to flying them whiich may have made all the difference. The information is out there for the taking. Good luck in the future, the price of knowledge can be high.

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

Give it up Dick, too many "Experts" on this thread...[sm=drowning.gif]

Panzlflyer

My Feedback: (15)

My $1200 9Z came with a puny little battery in the tranny and an even worse one as a reciever pack.

The DX7 one works just fine in a 60ish size plane provided you charge it and own a volmeter/load tester which is RC planes 101.
Is 4.8v ideal? No but no other manufacturer provides a 6v pack.
If you cared to check you will probably find your PCM system rebooting in flight as well on 4.8v
I did a test with a datalogger and the totally useless ( but wildy and blindly popular) 2700 packs on a GS Stinger once.
Was enough to scare me into 6v low impedance packs from then on.

Bet a whole lot of so called glitches and lockouts are down to voltage on all systems.

I am working on a Comp arf for a buddy that he picked up at Joe Nall from a so called knowledgable pilot.
Pulls 2.8AMPS at rest with just rudder and elevator, connectors all burned up, wires nice and stiff due to heat, wonder what it was pulling in flight due to poor linkage geometry on just 2 servos.....check your amp draw!!!

tsague

My Feedback: (11)

My 1st plane was a 25 size using the servos that came with my DX7 and the 1100 JR NICAD battery. Flew it off and on with NO problems. I use the Horizon volt meter with the .5 to 2 amp. load test. The day of the crash, I flew it one flt. for aprox. 7 or 8 min. Then went back aprox. 45 min later, took off and it went in. Checked the battery with meter, using .5 load and was 4.8 or 9 something. Second plane, Hanger 9 120 Stick, 26cc evolution gas, rx battery was 4.8 volt, 2400 mah sub c size and ign. battery was 6 cell, 7.2 volt 1500 mah, both batteries were NICAD. We were running the new eng. when the new rx went out, got a friends DX7 tx and tried to bind also, no luck. Went home and got another new rx, A7000, I have five of them, put into plane, worked fine rest of day running the eng on the ground. The next Sat. flew the plane on and off all day, aprox one and a half tank of gas, flew and ran fine. I have been using the Trition charger for aprox two and a half years on my LIPO and NICADs. I also use my JR 6102 and 9303 Tx until I purchased the DX7 on 12/23/06 and started flying it in Jan or Feb 07. After the first crash, I told my local hobby shop to sell my DX7 stuff and I would go back using the 6102 and 9303. He told John Adams at Horizon, John called me and convinced me to try using the DX7 in the 120 size stick with the gas eng, I did. If I needed to go to 6 volts, he should have said something to me, he new I wasn't a Happy Camper! I used a JR 537 servo on throttle, and 6 HiTec 545BB's everywhere else. I have had two 120 sticks and 3 60 size sticks using the 9303 and never a problem. The DX7 rx is still at Horizon, they said they will get with me next wk when they look at it. I am probably 95 % Horizon stuff and have been very happy until the DX7 thing. The stick went into ground on 2nd flt, the 1st flt was aprox 8 or 9 min, I landed waiting for a friend to show him is why I didn't fly longer. The second flt lasted aprox 15 to 20 seconds, before it went into the ground, and yes, I turned off both switches on the plane and the Tx. My DX7 and 5 Rx are for sale.

P-40 DRIVER

I think I would be doing some battery cycling and find out how well your charger is working, The second thing I would be doing is taking a look at your planes linkages for binding etc. It sounds like this is your first trip into the digital servo world, so that may be some issues causing fast battery drain. A drop to 4.8 volts after one flight might be a tip off to potencial issues concerning charging or servo binding. Using a Triton for charging receiver and transmitter batteries could cause alot of issues if not configured correctly. I hope your using a 10% charge rate and have the peak cut off feature set accordingly or not at all. A standard charger with a timer is probably a better choice in some cases. Horizon shoud be able to do data log on your receivers to determin the cause and hopefully with a little work you can iron out this issue and enjoy your DX7. Selling equipment which you think has issues to somebody else is not very ethical and will cost you alot of money, better to find out what the issue is and get it resolved. You have alot of issues here which may or may not be your fault but a couple of 6V batteries and a little testing may go along way towards solving this issue.