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9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

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Old 07-12-2007, 04:48 AM
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aeajr
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Default 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

I have a Futaba 9C. I want to take it to 2.4 GHz next season. It is going on my list to Santa. But which one?

I won't be swapping out all my 72 Mhz on my 14 flyable planes, so I will be using the 2.4 module like any other channel module. Over time I will bring all my gliders and electrics over to 2.4 GHz.

The question is what experince 9C users have had on 2.4 and which modules are being used. One report suggested that the 9C has a high latency factor and adding a 2.4 module might introduce enough latency to create a problem. Perhaps it will be so slight as to be invisable.

So, 9C and 9CS users, what are you using and what has been your experience. Also what kind of planes are you flying? That might make a difference in the experience report.
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:18 AM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

HI Ed---I'm using a 9C with the "XtremeLink" conversion---Flying .60 glow to 34% gas & everything in between---Don't know enough about "Latency" to discuss (I do know what it means)---Reliabilty?, who knows---I've had mine since "Toledo"---Been flying the cr@p out of it---I'm a happy camper!---
Ed
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:46 AM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

I use extreme and I am happy exceot when I have to program the fail safe. The latency is the same as the 9C on PPM. Thats as fast as anyone these days.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:06 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

One report suggested that the 9C has a high latency factor and adding a 2.4 module might introduce enough latency to create a problem.
It would also be interesting to know:
1. The frame rate (number of frames seen by the servos per second).
2. At what low voltage does 2.4 gig go to fail safe?
3. After a low voltage spike what is the signal reacquisition time or number of frames lost?


Bill
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Old 07-12-2007, 08:17 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?


ORIGINAL: BillS

One report suggested that the 9C has a high latency factor and adding a 2.4 module might introduce enough latency to create a problem.
It would also be interesting to know:

2. At what low voltage does 2.4 gig go to fail safe?
3. After a low voltage spike what is the signal reacquisition time or number of frames lost?


Bill
I can't find the post but I believe the XPS goes into reboot around 3V. I saw 3.2 and a saw 2.X posted as the critical voltages so somewhere around 3 is close enough for me as I don't want the pack getting down there anyway.

Reboot and reaquire, again according to Jim, is a fraction of a second. Perhaps fast enough that you might not know it happened. Might feel like a "glitch" perhaps.
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Old 07-12-2007, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

ORIGINAL: BillS

One report suggested that the 9C has a high latency factor and adding a 2.4 module might introduce enough latency to create a problem.
It would also be interesting to know:
1. The frame rate (number of frames seen by the servos per second).
2. At what low voltage does 2.4 gig go to fail safe?
3. After a low voltage spike what is the signal reacquisition time or number of frames lost?


Bill
1. That is transmitter dependant. In the case of the 9C, a frame occurs every 22.3ms.

2. 3.2 is the low voltage reboot currently. That is only because our voltage threshold is so high (30 volts). We are going to drop this in the future which will result in a low voltage threshold of 2.1 volts.

3. Complete reboot and reacquistion time is a 82ms, roughly 4 frames with the 9C.
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Old 07-12-2007, 08:40 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

Jim..any plans on adding a second satellite antenna for the Rx's ?

I have a 9C as well and am looking for a 2.4 system
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:54 AM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?


ORIGINAL: JimDrew

ORIGINAL: BillS

One report suggested that the 9C has a high latency factor and adding a 2.4 module might introduce enough latency to create a problem.
It would also be interesting to know:
1. The frame rate (number of frames seen by the servos per second).
2. At what low voltage does 2.4 gig go to fail safe?
3. After a low voltage spike what is the signal reacquisition time or number of frames lost?


Bill
1. That is transmitter dependant. In the case of the 9C, a frame occurs every 22.3ms.

2. 3.2 is the low voltage reboot currently. That is only because our voltage threshold is so high (30 volts). We are going to drop this in the future which will result in a low voltage threshold of 2.1 volts.

3. Complete reboot and reacquistion time is a 82ms, roughly 4 frames with the 9C.
A low voltage threshold (3.2v) and signal reacquisition time (82ms) is very respectable.

I suspect Spectrum signal reacquisition time maybe as much as 10 to 20 X longer. And I cannot find information about Futaba equipment.

Seems like a marketing/advertising opportunity exists to explain a product strength.

Thanks for the response.


Bill
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Old 07-13-2007, 07:40 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

I received this from Horizon in relation to size of AR 7000 and 9000

Thank you for your recent email. Both receivers are about the same
size. They are (WxLxH): 1.35x2.065x0.55. I hope you find this
information helpful. If you have any other questions, please reply to
this email or call us at 877-504-0233.

That is roughly the size of a Hitec SupremeII 8 channel and a little smaller than the old Hitec Supreme. No dimmensions on the remote receiver or the wire. I asked.
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:44 AM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

General feedback I am getting here and at other sites is there are more 9C XPS users than Spektrum users. That may be due to timing of release of modules but generally the feedback is positive on both.

It seems that both companies have released them with large receivers. I don't see a package that contains a small receiver from either Spektrum or XPS.

Futaba modules don't seem to be shipping yet.
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Old 11-17-2007, 11:44 AM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

Well, I took the leap. I have a Spektrum Module and a AR7000 receiver on the way.

I have been looking at AR6100s and AR 6200s also.

1) What is your experience with the 6100s. 1500 foot a reasonable working range? Would want that for my slope gliders and small electric planes.

2) As I understand it, the AR6300 is a shorter range receiver. Probably not of interest. I wish the AR6000 worked with the module, but it doesn't.

3) AR6200 would be for my 2M or larger 6 channel gliders. - Wondering, can you run it without the satelite receiver? Or, if space is limited, can you put the main and extension recievers on top of each other, turned 90 degrees? Any thoughts on this?

My two carbon fused 3M gliders, Supra and Mantis, will stay on 72 MHz. My 3M Thermal Dancer has a fuse that is mostly kevlar, so that one might work with the AR 7000. Will have to give it a try.

I am very aware of the voltage that needs to be maintined so I will be midful of that.

So, another Spektrum user about to come on line. Wish me luck boys.
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Old 11-17-2007, 06:53 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

can you run it without the satelite receiver
No (6200,7000,9000)

can you put the main and extension recievers on top of each other
Ive got them jammed into a Wild Wiz delta with in 1 inch of each other and range is further than I can see, sometimes on power up I have to switch on and off again, Im assuming its because of the proximity??? I have had dozens of flights on it.

I would do a good range check to make sure.
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Old 11-17-2007, 11:15 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

ORIGINAL: aeajr

Well, I took the leap. I have a Spektrum Module and a AR7000 receiver on the way.

I am very aware of the voltage that needs to be maintined so I will be midful of that.

So, another Spektrum user about to come on line. Wish me luck boys.
Ed, your post prior to this was in July, and it is now November, so I know that you have had plenty of time to do your homework, and as a result of doing your homework, you have made the right choice.

Regarding any "luck" that you might need, forget it. I have seen your R/C knowledge at work here in these forums, and know your capability. Rest assured, that you will have no problems. The battery stories that you read here from inexperienced modelers have never been an issue. Only the story tellers themselves are an issue. I'm confident that you will be pleased with the systems performance. " Ask the man who owns one. " Let us know what happens, and welcome to the club !

> Jim
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:38 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

Ed remarked ...
General feedback I am getting here and at other sites is there are more 9C XPS users than Spektrum users.
Ed:
Product availability notwithstanding, could it be the XPS's channel mapping capability in their receiver firmware? Supposedly this gives the user the capability to "Y" together a pair of receiver output channels to one functional input channel. [link=http://www.xtremepowersystems.net/data/xtremelink-1.8.pdf]Click Here[/link] to review page 15 of the v1.8 XPS manual.

I do wonder about the single XPS antenna while Spektrum uses a pair of antennas which, if placed properly, in theory provide for better reception since there's two for the receiver to choose from. The XPS module pair seems to be cheaper than the equivalent Spektrum pair. Decisions, decisions (and Futaba's true spread spectrum 8-ch entry is delayed again ...) []
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:16 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

I have sold several Spektrum modules here for Futaba and all seem to work fine with no issues. Both fly mostly sport from 40 to 120 size. Only one here is using XPS in his Futaba and only for gas. He still goes back to 72 for his smaller planes. The rest are all Spektrum. Dennis
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Old 11-19-2007, 09:14 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

I also own a 9C and is not happy about the latency between the elevator and the aux channel (8). Just wonder if you have observed any latency issue with the Spektrum.
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Old 11-20-2007, 01:26 AM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

I just tested out my 9C with the XPS system installed today in my T-Rex 600N (nitro version). It performed flawlessly. I did not notice any latency issues. If anything, it's faster than when it was on PCM with the stock module.

Regarding the low voltage cut-off: When I first installed the XPS in my 33% Yak 54, the Rx battery was really low. I use a 6V battery pack, and I switched the LED voltmeter to the 4.8 setting, and it was way in the red as I moved the elevator and rudder at the same time, (using all high-torque digital servos). The LED on the XPS receiver began to get dim, and the surfaces began to slow way down as a result of the lack of battery power. The Rx never reset as far as I can tell. The surfaces were still responding as they would with the old 72MHz Rx, just very slowly. I would have noticed this change if it had been flying and would have landed immediately, that's how slow things were. I think the surfaces would get slow enough to cause serious problems before the Rx would reboot.

I had no trouble with the failsafe set-up. I know that some users have reported that it is tedious to program the XPS Rx's. I did not have any trouble at all. The Rx's binded and I programmed the failsafe on the first try with each aircraft. Unlike standard Futaba, the settings are usable immediately, (Futaba failsafe settings can take a few minutes to go into effect). After I programmed the settings on each individual channel, I turned off the transmitter and saw the failsafe engage just as I had programmed it.

I have also heard a lot about people having to wait for their XPS systems. I ordered mine on 11/12 and everything arrived in perfect operating condition on 11/17!! Five days is pretty darn reasonable to me, especially since the shipping for everything was about $8.00.

I have not flight tested the system in my Yak yet, but I plan to do so tomorrow. I'll go through the whole range testing procedure that XPS recommends, but I seriously doubt I will have any problems with it.

The one report I've seen where a user experienced some wild control movements and lost a $5k turbine jet was not likely to have been the result of an XPS issue from what I have read. It appeared to be a mechanical error unrelated to the XPS system. Jim Drew responded to each post written by the unfortunate pilot, and I think in the end they both agreed to disagree as to the cause of the crash. My opinion, after seeing the video, was that something else failed. The malfunctioning Rx after the crash was likely a result of the impact. Just my $.02 on that matter.

I may go ahead and post my set-up pics and all of my experience with XPS on a new thread. I think it is the superior system based on the features it boasts; however, I have no direct experience with other module upgrades. I have used the DX7 on multiple occasions and it is without a doubt a great system. I have used the Futaba 6 channel FASST system while test flying a friend's plane and it also appeared to be a very good system. Unfortunately, Futaba left modelers like me with little choice in this matter given the cost of their high-end system, the 12FG, and their high-priced 7 channel module.

The XPS system is a fantastic upgrade to the 9C, without a doubt.

-Pat
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Old 11-20-2007, 08:06 AM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

P-Diddy wrote ...
The XPS system is a fantastic upgrade to the 9C, without a doubt.
After reviewing this thread, others, and getting a dump from a pal who attended the recent AZ Jet Rally (who had spoken to Jim Drew at length while there), I ordered my 9C's XPS "upgrade" yesterday. I even signed up for the neck strap and the Tx balancer doo-dad - no Tshirt tho.
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Old 11-20-2007, 02:24 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

On observation of no latency, how was it determined? Can you be more specific?
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:02 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

I have the Fasst 7ch and it has worked flawless for me. I have about 100 flights with three different glow planes.
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Old 11-26-2007, 04:36 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

Where are you all getting your 9C XPS "upgrade" ? I haven't seen them advertised anywhere.

Thanks,
Peter
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Old 11-26-2007, 05:52 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

Source for XPS stuff? [link=http://www.xtremepowersystems.net/products.php?cat=11]Right here[/link] - just scroll down the page a bit.
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Old 11-26-2007, 07:10 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

There's actually a thread on the XPS forums in RC Groups where the owner talks about why he isn't advertising in any of the major magazines or in banners. The only advertising has basically been done by distributors in Europe and then online word-of-mouth. His systems are selling faster than he can keep inventory at times, so he's probably not going to be advertising anytime soon.

-Pat
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:16 PM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

XPS has been selling modules and receivers since approximately April. They have released several upgrades and enhancements, many of which were provided to current customers at no charge.
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Old 11-27-2007, 05:40 AM
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Default RE: 9C and 9CS - Who is using 2.4 GHz - Happy?

Thanks for the link and info on where to get them. It looks like the way to go for me. I haven't seen but a couple of Futaba radios and no modules, a lot of Spektrums but we have had 3 incidences at our field alone all with different people. Two of the incidences, I was closely involved in the deciphering of what happened. Both had good battery management and installed correctly and working good for the whole summer. I had picked up a Spektrum radio for a T-Rex project I'm working on and just sold it after the third crash. I've been looking to get a module for 2.4 but wasn't sure which way to go. After reading this thread, you all have made the choice clear for me.

Thanks again for the info,
Peter
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