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How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

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Old 07-19-2007, 09:28 PM
  #1  
esmithga
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Default How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

A question out there to the RC Transmitter manufactures: With all the great things going on with RC transmitters these days in regard to the new spread spectrum technologies how about redesigning the man machine interface? I started flying RCs back in the 70s using an MCR 4 channel single stick. My RC mentor also flew a single stick transmitter at the time. I graduated to larger aircraft and enjoyed getting some real stick and rudder time. Now I am back to RC flying and purchased an old Futaba 8SSAP single stick off of ebay and love flying with it. To me it is more like flying the real thing.

Anyway – It is about time the Transmitter manufactures come out with a really cool single stick transmitter. Just think - A stick like an F16 joystick with a high-hat that could be used for trim controls and even have additional trim controls and switches on the stick. Just like PC joysticks today. Maybe even a tray system with the main stick on the pilot’s lower right side and an F16 style throttle on the left that could also double as a rudder peddles (ok sort a like the dual sticks of today but more functional).

So Futaba, JR, Airtronics, Spectrum and others how about it? Let’s see what your creative minds can build. Plus add in two way telemetry while you’re at it with airspeed, altitude, heading, rate of climb and attitude indicators as well. ;-)
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Old 08-05-2007, 07:14 PM
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esmithga
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

Would anyone in the flying community like to comment?

Has anyone ever used a single stick 4+ channel transmitter and liked it?

Has anyone ever sat down to their PC's MS Flight Simulator with a CH joystick and thought "If I could only interface my RC transmitter with this joy stick just think how cool that would be?"
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Old 08-05-2007, 07:43 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters


ORIGINAL: esmithga

Would anyone in the flying community like to comment?

Has anyone ever used a single stick 4+ channel transmitter and liked it?

Has anyone ever sat down to their PC's MS Flight Simulator with a CH joystick and thought "If I could only interface my RC transmitter with this joy stick just think how cool that would be?"
Yes, I fly single stick in addition to dual stick. I tell people I fly both equally as bad!
At the club picnic last Saturday I flew the SS and the younger fellows couldn't believe it. They came over to watch me fly with it.

As far as manufacturers making new single sticks, I think you will find it is all about numbers. Those of us that fly single stick are getting long in the tooth and the demand is very low. Newer people that have never seen one don't care. Therefore, to design and produce a single stick will be very costly.
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Old 08-06-2007, 01:36 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

I still have my single stick H8 channel Heathkit radio. Would buy a single stick radio in a flash if they offered one. Apparently I can't even convert the Heathkit by using the single stick encoder front end with a JR 783 or something similar because the damn law sez the radios can't be modified in any way. fed gov still sucks.
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Old 08-06-2007, 01:43 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters


ORIGINAL: Prairie Mike

I still have my single stick H8 channel Heathkit radio. Would buy a single stick radio in a flash if they offered one. Apparently I can't even convert the Heathkit by using the single stick encoder front end with a JR 783 or something similar because the damn law sez the radios can't be modified in any way. fed gov still sucks.
Visit http://mstar2k.com for the Micro Star encoder that is inexpensive and you can put in your own case. Couple that with a new spread specktrum module (XPS or Spektrum) and you are legal with a very nice radio in the case of your choice. Also look at http://www.group.yahoo.com/group/mp8k for support for the ACE Micro Pro 8000 and the Micro Star.

We have a lot of single stickers in the MP8K group.
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:44 AM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

I've flown both, and honestly, I have no interest at all in a single stick. Neither is like flying full scale, and for aerobatic maneuvers that require constant inputs on all channels (like rolling circles), the single stick would be cumbersome.
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:46 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters


ORIGINAL: ncrego

I've flown both, and honestly, I have no interest at all in a single stick. Neither is like flying full scale, and for aerobatic maneuvers that require constant inputs on all channels (like rolling circles), the single stick would be cumbersome.
I do rolling circles with either the single stick or dual stick. Not intentional, as I am trying to roll in a straight line. Maybe I need to fix my radio???
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:58 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

I'm just saying, separating out my inputs was tough on the single stick compared to the regular 2 stick radio. For normal flying, it's not a big deal, but for aerobatics and 3d, it's not as good.
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Old 08-07-2007, 02:00 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters


ORIGINAL: ncrego

I'm just saying, separating out my inputs was tough on the single stick compared to the regular 2 stick radio. For normal flying, it's not a big deal, but for aerobatics and 3d, it's not as good.
I agree and I fly both, look at the smileys at the end. I was joking.......
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Old 08-07-2007, 02:17 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

I know the older Single Stickers really like it----for me, I flew it but never cared for it. (I could say the same thing about Mode 2)---I can fly it but I simply prefer Mode 1.

I don't think the Mfgrs. or the distribution system has any interest at all in it-----simply more inventory, cost and service. The fact that it is not now offered would indicate that the volume probably just isn't there.

For those who simply "Have to Have Single Stick" there are several in the world who will make the conversion. I think the best looking one I have seen is from an individual in England. I think Mac Man knows who it is and how to reach him.

While I just saw pictures, it was a real work of art-------better than any I saw first hand during the Single Stick days of availability incidentally and that includes Pro-Line, Kraft, Ace and the others too. Simply beautiful work.
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Old 01-15-2008, 09:16 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

We are just starting to look into converting our Futaba 8SSAP's into 2.4 radios its going to take a little thinking but won't be a problem. They only transmit pcm and we will need to convert to ppm/fm but it won't be hard. I love my Futaba 8SSAP.
steve
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Old 01-15-2008, 09:29 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters


ORIGINAL: stinky

We are just starting to look into converting our Futaba 8SSAP's into 2.4 radios its going to take a little thinking but won't be a problem. They only transmit pcm and we will need to convert to ppm/fm but it won't be hard. I love my Futaba 8SSAP.
steve
I could be wrong but I don't believe the 8SSAP has a PPM output at all. You will have to install another encoder in the case.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:15 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

How do you propose changing the system from Futaba's 512 PCM to PPM? Do you think it is a major change to the circuitry?

I have two Futaba single sticks and would love to change them to 2.4 but since they are only 512 PCM I can't do it without changing out the guts of the transmitter.

Thanks,
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:53 AM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

I would like to see a single stick in the market, I would buy one in a heart beat. I remember the the old days with the SS, i prferr having the rudder control on the knob of the SS, easier coordination for aerobatics.
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:44 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

My two cents!

Gosh! I could not agree with you more, I go back to the Controlaire (World Engines) days when I purchased a single stick and taught myself to fly. I have had several Kraft, Orbit, Ace, JR and Futaba Single Stick radios since those days and there is nothing better for Scale and Sport flying then a single stick. There is not a two stick flyer out there that can manage ground handling of aircraft as well a single stick flyer, especially in cross wind conditions. Right and left control with a single stick is simply natural for a right handed flyer and also for a left handed flyer providing the single stick is moved to the left side of the transmitter. Controlling left and right functions plus throttle with the left hand is simply not very well accomplished when one is right handed. Also cross wind landings and takeoffs are much more difficult with a two stick as anyone can note at a flying field. Most two stickers simply pour the coals to the plane and take off in whatever direction the plane points too.

The single stick transmitter was designed with the idea of not having to take your hand off the roll, pitch and yaw functions of the aircraft while performing trim functions. However, when Futaba and JR came on board with their single sticks they totally forget about Human Factors and proceeded with blinders on. They also added extra cost to the price of the single stick systems. Modelers wanting the best deal were pushed towards the lower cost two stick transmitters hence the demise of single stick systems. I am sure that if most scale and sport flyers could try a single stick system they would by nature select one over a two stick.

It may be possible that we can provide our case to the people across the big pond and they come up with a solution for us because I do not believe anyone will convince current day suppliers to provide single stick systems as the greed is simply in control!
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Old 12-19-2009, 06:07 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

I Agree! Imagine what it would be like to take off properly and steering the plane into the wind,and not relying on lady luck to put you in the right direction.[&o] Never mind trying to teach a novice. Thanks Ed
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Old 12-19-2009, 09:46 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

As you all have to know, Times Have Changed !!

The multitude of switches, mixes etc, seem to make the SS a curiosity only. As in - just how do you propose to reach them ?
As far as being "Like a full scale experience" forget it as it isn't even remotely close in any aspect save for your imagination.

Face it, there is virtually no correlation between full scale control operation and an RC model.
Most, but not all, of the full scale aerodynamics provide a useful trade off however as a group (always one or two exceptions on a national basis) the full scale pilots I know/knew were lousy RC pilots regardless of the stick configuration.

Sure you can point to Steve Rojecki but then where do you go?

Except for custom radios (some are absolutely beautiful, way better that the SS's of old) it is a dead mode except for some old guys who refuse to let go.

Don't even begin to tell me I don't understand as you are going to have one helluva time coming up with an active Precision Aerobatics RC Pilot older than I .
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Old 12-20-2009, 07:43 AM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

Maybe if you learned to fly on single stick I can see why you would like to have that option but speaking for guys who have learned to fly in the past 10 or so years I think very few would be interested in it. Personally if a new single stick radio came out I wouldn't even give it a second look. I bet 95% + of RCers would feel the same way.

Not to discount you guys who like to fly them but I don't think it would make any sense to design and produce a new one.
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:38 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters


ORIGINAL: Gringo Flyer

Maybe if you learned to fly on single stick I can see why you would like to have that option but speaking for guys who have learned to fly in the past 10 or so years I think very few would be interested in it. Personally if a new single stick radio came out I wouldn't even give it a second look. I bet 95% + of RCers would feel the same way.

Not to discount you guys who like to fly them but I don't think it would make any sense to design and produce a new one.

Interesting point to be made here. I DID learn to fly on single stick !

I can still fly it as well as Mode 2 (I fly Mode 1).
I would not consider Single Stick if it were available with Ron's stick assembly at half the price of a two stick Mode 1 radio.

Summary = Different strokes for different folks.
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

I started this discussion a few years ago trying to get feedback on the need for single stick transmitters. While the dual stick transmitters are now the most popular that does not mean they are the best for all people. Just consider mode 1 and mode 2 dual stick transmitters. They are different for a different set of users. The same goes for Single Stick transmitters. I fly with dual stick mode 2 and single stick but still prefer my single stick futaba PCM 512. I am not flying competition so I can't say if it would be better for me flying pattern or not but I still love my single stick.

Now for the $$$$ part. I purchased my, in perfect condition, Futaba 8 channel single stick of E-Bay quite a few years ago for a little over $300 and then purchased a broken one off E-Bay for $35.00 and totally rebuilt the broken plastic gimbal and now it works great as well.

I am always watching E-Bay to see what people are willing to pay for a transmitter that is probably well over 15 years old and I am constantly surprised to see them go for anywhere from $300+ to a recent NEW IN BOX one that just went for $1525.00 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

And this one that just went for $800.00 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=320462402887

At these prices I would say that there is a demand for them when considering for $1525.00 you could buy a really nice Futaba mode 2 with a lot of the bells and whistles.

So - Yes they are not for everyone but there is a demand and a demand for parts for the DIY groups.

I wish they would bring them back. I wish I had the $$$$ to do it myself but unless I hit a gas well that probably will not happen anytime soon for me.

Keep the discussion going. Good feedback!!!
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:37 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

I have seen threads with links to companies that will convert your existing Single Stick radio to 2.4. I also know several people who have had their more modern Twin Stick transmitters converted to Single Stick.
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Old 12-20-2009, 04:02 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

esmithga

Allow me to offer an idea.

I have had about everything the RC world has to offer in Radios.
I have been an RC Aerobatic pilot for fifty years.
I have NEVER EVER used all the bells and whistles I have on my current radios. Though I have tried them.
I am at zero disadvantage to those who do when at the flying field (as opposed to the "flying" done on these sites).

My idea is simply this. You do NOT need all this 'jazz' to fly well or with absolute precision.
Limit the bells and whistles to the reasonable few.
Put everything you can into quality, ergonomics, speed and accuracy !

Price it for an adequate return and see how much activity ($$$$ dollar activity not the chin music activity we see in profusion on these sites). Now you have your nitch market defined. AND it migh prove worthwhile.
Note, I did NOT rule out the two sticker's designs as many of us would also go for the set that takes quality, speed and accuracy to another level even IF the price is "up there".
I would go for that myself.

You also do NOT have to re engineer the radio as , Spektrum for example, might be willing to sell you all the electronic decks you need and you then add the superlatives. Much as the custom car industry of yore was constituted.

To be certain it is a small nitch but that does not preclude either the profit or the satisfaction that could be attained.
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Old 12-20-2009, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters


Silvertone still makes their Mark 22 transmitter with a SS option:

http://www.silvertone.com.au/mark22tx.htm
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:55 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

I was on the Radio South web site today, and they can do a conversion for anyone who would like a SS transmitter..  Not sure of the cost, but if that's  what you want to fly, there you go!  
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:27 PM
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Default RE: How about bringing back Single Stick Transmitters

The very first multiproportional system (Space Control) was single stick. Unfortunately, they cost more and there is less demand for them. Every manufacturer that tried them dropped them.
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