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Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

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Old 12-10-2007, 12:14 AM
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RC David
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Default Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

Attention all RC radio gurus,

I am looking for someone who can tell me if the Spektrum 2.4 Ghz DSM2 radios operating on just 1 freq and the Futaba 2.4 Ghz FAST systems are immune to interference from 2.4 Ghz routers, cordless phones, Blackberries, etc. ?

Is one system better than the other at rejecting signals in this band?

Inquiring minds want to know since many of my neighbors use these technologies and I'm about to jump on the 2.4 Ghz bandwagon.

Thanks for any insight on this.

Dave
Old 12-10-2007, 12:31 AM
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JCINTEXAS
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

Dave quote:
"I am looking for someone who can tell me if the Spektrum 2.4 Ghz DSM2 radios operating on just 1 freq and the Futaba 2.4 Ghz FAST systems are immune to interference from 2.4 Ghz routers, cordless phones, Blackberries, etc. ?"
__________________________________________________
Dave,
I am flying the Futaba 6 channel FASST. I have a 2.4 Ghz cordless phone (which works better than my four 5.8 Ghz phones). I tested to see if the phone would affect the Futaba radio. Even when I hold the phone right next to my FASST receiver, it does not interfere or affect it in any way so far as I can tell. The 2.4 Ghz phone is affected by the FASST transmitter when they are within 2-3 feet of each other. The phone makes some strange sounds. I have read reports here in the RCU Forum that the 2.4 FASST radio is NOT affected by an onboard 2.4 Ghz video system. As for Blackberries and routers, I don't know. My guess is they will not affect the FASST system. I am very pleased with the performance of my Futaba FASST. To date it has performed perfectly.
Regards
JC
"I have 3-green"
Old 12-10-2007, 12:45 AM
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Airforce7
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

I did a test yesterday with my Spektrum AR9000 Rx against a cordless 2.4 GHz baby monitor, which operates within the same range. I binded the system with the monitor on right next to my plane and had no problems. The monitor never interfered with my Rx and Tx. However the monitor was always affected when I turned on my Tx. I like the Spektrum equipment so far on my JR 9303 Tx.
Old 12-10-2007, 01:35 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

G'day Dave,
Spektrum DSM2 uses 2 channels, not one, that's why it has 2 or more receivers, all your 2.4Ghz stuff in you house, phones, monitors, routers etc, use 1 channel, with very limited range, so unless you are going to take your home cordless phone, or baby monitor, to the field, it is not a problem.
Old 12-10-2007, 07:48 PM
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

I am under the impression that all of the 2.4 ghz equipment, phones, routers, rc radios, look for clear frequencies and switch when they find inteference.
Old 12-10-2007, 08:13 PM
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JCINTEXAS
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

Flying Geezer
That little fella with the big hat in your picture sure looks like my oldest son when he was that age. I'm guessing that's your grandson? Teach him to fly when he's old enough.
Regards
JC
"I've got 3-green"
Old 12-11-2007, 12:04 AM
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Flying Geezer
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

He's 4 years old and is getting an Air Hog heli for Chistmas. He loves to go to the field and intently watches every full scale plane that he sights.

I have raised 4 sons, all have flown RC, 2 still do, one flys full scale. 10 of my 14
grandchildren, (ages 4 to 27), are boys, several have RC experience and one is a hotshot aerobatic pilot.

I'm braggin' to much now, so I'll shut up.
Old 12-11-2007, 10:53 AM
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fritzthecat
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

ORIGINAL: Flying Geezer

I am under the impression that all of the 2.4 ghz equipment, phones, routers, rc radios, look for clear frequencies and switch when they find inteference.
Spektrum - After turn on, Tx scans frequency, selects the first two channels that are free/clear. No freq/channel changing once locked.

XPS - After turn on, Rx scans freq and selects one, tells Tx. If interference becomes too great on that channel, RX/Tx will scan for new one and lock.
EDIT -- If interference rises slowly then XPS will switch. If interference appears suddenly then XPS will not switch and you are SOL.


FASST - No scanning, system frequency (channel used) changes every 2 ms.

Fritz

Old 12-11-2007, 11:44 AM
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JCINTEXAS
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

Fritz quote:
"XPS - After turn on, Rx scans freq and selects one, tells Tx."
__________________________________________________ _
Question:
How does the receiver "tell" the transmitter?
This would require "duplex communication"
with the Rx having a transmit capability,
and the Tx having a receiver capability.
Regards
JC
"I've got 3-green"
Old 12-11-2007, 01:49 PM
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

JC, I am assuming here. I expect that the TX pauses (micro-seconds) and the antenna receives on the frequency, or in the case of Futaba, to find the next frequency, or frequencies.
Old 12-11-2007, 02:38 PM
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RC David
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

Fritz,

Thanks for the explanation of the differences.

I am going ahead with a Spektrum DX-7 for my Heli.


Dave
Old 12-11-2007, 02:47 PM
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JCINTEXAS
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

Dave,
The Spektrum DX-7 is a very good radio with a solid record of performance. It would have been a good choice either way. Happy flying.
Regards
JC
Old 12-11-2007, 03:31 PM
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RC David
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

Thanks JC.

Hopefully I won't have any problems with the receiver or battery as I've read about some of the past problems. All seems to be ok now though.


Dave
Old 12-11-2007, 03:35 PM
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iflyj3
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST


ORIGINAL: JCINTEXAS

Fritz quote:
"XPS - After turn on, Rx scans freq and selects one, tells Tx."
__________________________________________________ _
Question:
How does the receiver "tell" the transmitter?
This would require "duplex communication"
with the Rx having a transmit capability,
and the Tx having a receiver capability.
Regards
JC
"I've got 3-green"
FWIW, the XPS is a duplex system. The transmitter and receiver are transceivers.

Old 12-11-2007, 03:47 PM
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

Thats correct the communication is bi-directional. Its even set up for telemetry.

From their web site...
The XtremeLinkâ„¢ uses bi-directional communication between the transmitter module and the receiver. Data is transferred and acknowledged, both directions. Data encryption and 64 bit CRC error checking means that invalid data being passed to the servos is virtually impossible.

1024 systems are great. 2048 (Futaba's 14MZ) is even better. The XtremeLinkâ„¢ has an unparalleled 65536 (16 bits) system! Future versions of the XtremeLinkâ„¢ could have enough bandwidth for live video and audio transmissions!

The transmitter module has a port for a remotely mounted telemetry control unit consisting of a large (20 character x 4 lines) trans-reflective and backlit LCD screen with three function buttons. The unit conveniently mounts in your old antenna hole! On-board sensor modules (which plug into the XtremeLinkâ„¢ receiver) allow data from your R/C plane, car, or boat to be viewed in real-time! Up to 256 different sensor modules can be connected and accessed at the same time via the telemetry system. The telemetry upgrade comes with the standard flight sensor package which provides battery voltage, on-board temperature, and altitude. Additional sensor modules for airspeed, various temperature readings (exhaust gas temperature, battery temperature, etc.), and many other functions will be available. An earphone jack is used to access the built-in audio output. The telemetry control unit can be programmed to sound an alarm by using tones and/or human speech when certain events occur (such as too slow of air speed, too low of altitude, low battery, etc). Some of sample words in module vocabulary include: altitude, warning, landing, gear, speed, failure.
Old 12-11-2007, 03:55 PM
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

Quote:
"Thats correct the communication is bi-directional. Its even set up for telemetry."
__________________________________________________ _
Impressive!

Regards
JC
Old 12-11-2007, 06:38 PM
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

ORIGINAL: RC David

Thanks JC.

Hopefully I won't have any problems with the receiver or battery as I've read about some of the past problems. All seems to be ok now though.


Dave
Excellent choice Dave. And be assured, it's only the novice's that have problems with Spektrum.

> Jim
Old 12-28-2007, 08:24 AM
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JL1
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

I have a DX-7 along with several other radio's. Multiplex, Ace, and futaba. I have been flying for 15+years and have a fair amount of experience and am a long way from a novice yet I don't pretend to be an expert. IMHO, a radio system like the DX-7, that was/is unique in it's SLOW recovery from a momentary power reduction was/is a huge design flaw. No one in the rc community was aware of this characteristic (a characteristic the 72 MHZ systems did not share) when they were introduced and a lot of planes were lost because of it. This happened to novices as well as experienced flyers because it was a new and unexpected response to a momentary low voltage. I use mine but I still don't trust it in a valuable plane.
Old 12-28-2007, 11:15 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

IMHO, a radio system like the DX-7, that was/is unique in it's SLOW recovery from a momentary power reduction was/is a huge design flaw. No one in the rc community was aware of this characteristic (a characteristic the 72 MHZ systems did not share) when they were introduced and a lot of planes were lost because of it. This happened to novices as well as experienced flyers because it was a new and unexpected response to a momentary low voltage. I use mine but I still don't trust it in a valuable plane.
Huge design flaw is correct. After all the radio is simply a second generation park flier design. As a park flier the design flaw was insignificant.

Bill
Old 12-28-2007, 01:34 PM
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JCINTEXAS
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

I understand the difference between AC and DC and that's about it
This question is addressed to the many people in this Forum who are knowledgeable about the radio technology used in our hobby/sport. Please explain the advantage of "spread spectrum". Why is it a good thing to "shift frequencies" from microsecond to microsecond? I've read that "spread spectrum" telephones have much better range than phones which are not "spread spectrum". Why is this? It's obvious that Futaba and JR and the other RC manufacturers made the change to 2.4Ghz for goods reasons. I would just like to have a better understanding of the 2.4Ghz technology and why it's superior to the 72Mhz radios which have been in use for many years.
Regards
JC
Old 12-28-2007, 03:12 PM
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

There are many reasons. This how I see it. (1) don't have to worry about shot downs. (2) engine noise in gas. (3) speed of the radio. At the national heli fly-in a Muncie this year 720 pilots only 120 were on 72. What kind of inpound would you have had with that many radios?. 15 flight stations only the 72 had be be inpounded everybody else just flew when they wanted too. Check about the JoNall over 500 pilots. Do you need to move? No. Will you move at some time. Yes. No one can answer the question of which is better, thats up to you. Have fun trying to figure it out. I made the move and quit worrying about it. Dennis
Old 12-28-2007, 06:46 PM
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST


ORIGINAL: DadsToysBG

There are many reasons. This how I see it. (1) don't have to worry about shot downs. (2) engine noise in gas. (3) speed of the radio. At the national heli fly-in a Muncie this year 720 pilots only 120 were on 72. What kind of inpound would you have had with that many radios?. 15 flight stations only the 72 had be be inpounded everybody else just flew when they wanted too. Check about the JoNall over 500 pilots. Do you need to move? No. Will you move at some time. Yes. No one can answer the question of which is better, thats up to you. Have fun trying to figure it out. I made the move and quit worrying about it. Dennis
_______________________________________________

I do understand the practical advantages of 2.4GHz Spread Spectrum at the flying field, and these are important. However my question pertains to the technical aspects:
1. What advantage is gained by shifting frequencies every 2 milliseconds?
2. Why do "spread spectrum" phones (and presumably RC radios) have greater range?
3. Why is the RF link more "bulletproof" (immune to harmful interference)?
4. Why is there less "latency" with 2.4GHz than there is with 72MHz?
5. Could a whip antenna or longwire be used with a 2.4 GHz receiver?
6. Would a whip antenna, help prevent signal blockage and possible "dropouts"?
7. With so many things such as cordless phones, microwave relays, and WiFi using the 2.4 frequency, why do we not have to be concerned about interferrence from these many other RF sources?
Am I the only one, or do inquiring minds want to know?
Regards
JC
Old 12-28-2007, 08:25 PM
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Flying Geezer
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

I can answer some of your questions.

1. Futaba apparantly believes that switching frequencies 500 times per second doesn't let you stay on a dirty frequency for very long. I believe the other manufacturers switch only when interfered with.

2. I don't know that they do.

3. Because they are not limited to just 50 channels where someone can turn-on on your frequency. Also because the ultra-high frequency is almost impervious to things like ignition noise, and because devices operating on these high frequencies also run at low power. Not so on 72 mHz, eliminates distant interference.

4. Think of the speed of radios like you do the speed of computers. 2.4 gHz is about 33 times faster, if my quick calculation is right. Your receiver get about 2.4 million commands per second.

5. Longer antennae are not possible at 2.4. Antennas are a tuned device, and the proper length of an antenna is inversely proportionnal to frequency. The higher the frequency, the shorter the antenna.

6. A whip antenna is just too long to work.

7. Because there are not channels, they just keep changing frequency anytime they interfere with each other, and they do it so fast, you don't even notice. Most of the non-rc devices switch frequencies too. It's like an insame game of electronic bumper cars.
Old 12-28-2007, 08:40 PM
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JCINTEXAS
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

Flying Geezer quote: "It's like an insane game of electronic bumper cars."
___________________________________________
That is an excellent explanation and made me laugh.
I did a little quick online research to find answers about spread spectrum. Good info at: http://www.howstuffworks.com/question326.htm I learned that SS was invented by Nikola Tesla who was about the smartest most brilliant guy who ever lived. Just do a Google search for Digital Spread Spectrum. Wikipedia has some good info and there are many other sources. The military adopted SS because it's much more secure and "jam-proof". We know it works in our RC models. I guess that's all I need to know.
My new Futaba 7C FASST is on charge right now.
Gonna go flyin in the mornin....weather permitting.
Best Regards
JC
Old 12-28-2007, 08:45 PM
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Default RE: Spektrum 2.4Ghz DSM2 VS Futaba 2.4Ghz FAST

Wish I lived in Texas, I'd go with you. Too COLD up her.


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