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Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

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Old 02-08-2008, 12:27 AM
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noterman
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Default Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

Ok, this is purely speculation on my part, please bear with me. If I use a 2.4 radio system on a gas powered airplane, and this plane has a poor set-up that produces interference/glitches in the 72 khz band, will the interference effect other planes that are flying on 72 khz? I know it would not effect the 2.4 ghz planes, but could I unknowingly shoot down somebody's 72 khz plane without knowing it?

Bill W
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:37 AM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

Not unless you are within 2-3 feet of the other airplane. Then you are likely to have other issues.
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Old 02-08-2008, 06:16 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

this 2.4 ghz is nothing more or less than a modern day a.m. freq.
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Old 02-08-2008, 07:24 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

ORIGINAL: LANNYBOB

this 2.4 ghz is nothing more or less than a modern day a.m. freq.
What do you mean?
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Old 02-09-2008, 10:50 AM
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ORIGINAL: dirtybird

Then you are likely to have other issues.

LOL!

-Ed B.
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Old 02-09-2008, 01:15 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

Come on guys give him a honest answer. Thats what 2.4 does. Nothing in the plane or engine will affect it. Nothing the plane does will affect any other plane. This is one of the reasons we moved to 2.4 among others. Dennis
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Old 02-09-2008, 02:02 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?


ORIGINAL: DadsToysBG

Come on guys give him a honest answer. Thats what 2.4 does. Nothing in the plane or engine will affect it. Nothing the plane does will affect any other plane. This is one of the reasons we moved to 2.4 among others. Dennis
Well, that's the marketing position that they want you to believe, but there have been numerous reports of 2.4 systems (pretty much all brands) glitching and other such stuff (or even losing it outright) due to things like static buildup on helicopters, or on-board video systems. They do a nice job of avoiding RF noise, but are just as vulnerable to other forms of noise as everything else.

So, the bottom line would appear to be: 2.4 is somewhat better, but don't kid yourself into believing that it lets you get away with anything . . .

- Tim
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Old 02-09-2008, 03:16 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

I may not have much knowledge on heli's. but I do know there's not much problem on the planes. I'm a dealer and I watch these threads carefully for trends with the new radios. discounting user error I've not seen your issues with the exception of XPS. Dennis
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

While 2.4GHz systems are much less apt to be effected by noise, they are not immune. We have had one case at our field where the electronic ignition on a big gasser made the 2.4 system unflyable due to interferance when the motor was running. All precautions were taken and double checked and still the problem persisted with that particular ignition system. Many similar installations were not efffected in any manner.
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Old 02-10-2008, 11:16 AM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

Can you be sure any interference is with 2.4 rather than the electronics in the servos? Today's digital servos have almost as much electronics as the receivers.
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Old 02-11-2008, 11:12 AM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

Rodney, while I don't question what you saw at the field. Yours as well as many others have been "I saw". This leaves the question of what really happened. I can say I never seen a problem with 2.4 here at my home field, and say I that I have never had a problem unless I caused it and that hasn't happened (yet).
At the same time and can say I've never had a problem with gas on PCM either. but I have "seen" one of our club member have terrible trouble with gas on FM. When he switched to 2.4 and no changes in the plane, no problem. Dennis
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Old 02-11-2008, 02:04 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, say NEVER!
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Old 02-11-2008, 02:29 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

Randy, didn't you see the "yet" I can say never on PCM because I'm not using it anymore. Dennis
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Old 02-11-2008, 04:37 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

Come on guys give him a honest answer. Thats what 2.4 does. Nothing in the plane or engine will affect it.
This is what i'm talking about. We all know it's less likely to interfere because of the frequency. However, any interference of great magnitude close to any receiver CAN interfere with reception. I can agree with your statement if you are not so absolute. JMO
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:02 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

DadsToys, yes I am sure. I am an electrical engineer and was very doubtfull of what we thought we were seeing at the time. We (the owner and I and two other very experienced flyers --and trained engineers if that means anything) thoughoughly checked this out in every manner we could think of. And, yes, it was electrical interferance to the receiver, not servos. We minimized the effects by making a maximum physical seperation of the ignition system from the radio and associated electronics, double checking for all other known causes but it was still to noisy to risk flight. As an EE, I know this was highly unlikely but also know from electronics and years of instrumention work in the electronic and measuring field that all such gear can be subject to interferance, it is just that there is not as much man made noise in that portion of the RF spectrum as there is in the lower frequency area.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:21 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

I know the people from spektrum would love to talk to you. They tell me that a gas engine can't make noise in the 2.4. It would be an interesting study. It would be a interesting study to reproduce it in a lab setting. Dennis
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:34 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

Ok- let's reword this to
"normal electronic ignition operation will not interfer."
A spark plug cap which is broken and dancing up n down puts out a TON of crap and may interfer. it will crash 72 in a heartbeat.

This old business of "masking" a glitch " always seemed odd to me
If the radio works -it works -if it ignores "interference" - GREAT. call it masking if you like
Personally I gave up on old FM/ PPM radios years ago and when 2.4 hit I sold/gave away all the PCM - good by n' good riddance.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:45 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

ORIGINAL: DadsToysBG

I know the people from spektrum would love to talk to you. They tell me that a gas engine can't make noise in the 2.4. It would be an interesting study. It would be a interesting study to reproduce it in a lab setting. Dennis
What you neglect is the presence of at least one (if not more) intermediate frequencies in the 2.4GHz receiver, which are required as a part of the signal extraction process. There are ****NOT**** in the 2.4gig range, and are possible sources of foreign signal penetration . . .

- Tim
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:53 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

There you got me. what answer can I give. "It's not in the 2.4" but it interferes in the 2.4. All I know is it works. I'll leave the rest up to everybody else. Dennis
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Old 02-11-2008, 07:00 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

Theoretical inteferrence:
A small A bomb -tho not on2.4 -will interfer--
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Old 02-11-2008, 11:42 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

Thanks for all the replies, but you're getting a little off track. My original question was if a gas engined plane that is controlled by a 2.4 ghz radio, could cause interference that would effect a plane using 72 mhz. I know that the 2.4 ghz systems are much more resistant to this type of interference.. I'm basicly wondering if a 'dirty' 2.4 plane can shoot down a plane on 72 mhz....
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Old 02-12-2008, 08:55 AM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

WHOA! I misunderstood the original question. I thought you meant "can a gas engine ignition interfere with a 2.4 receiver in the same plane." Now I understand you to mean, can it interfere with other planes.

That's a stretch. Although I never like to say never, if I thought that could happen, I would worry about my electric watch interferring.

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Old 02-12-2008, 08:57 AM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

SORRY DENNIS, I won't criticise you for saying never on this one. I think some other folk misunderstood the question, too.
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Old 02-12-2008, 05:39 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

I know I was having issues flying some of my gasser setups on 72 mghz.. I had an old 12' citabria on on 72 mghz with really bad rfi when the engine was running.. It was on a g 62 with a magneto as well. Could not figure out the problem, tryed rf chokes, moving everything, then I said the heck with it and bought an xps system for my 9c. Never a problem after that.. AND YES this system actually works for me at least in spite of some others comments......
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Old 02-12-2008, 06:02 PM
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Default RE: Can 2.4 Ghz mask glitches?

No one is questioning that 2.4 gHz radios are much more immune to ignition RFI. Read the original question again, then tell me if your RFI was causing other peoples planes to crash.
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