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R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

Old 04-23-2003, 02:11 PM
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Mac J
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

Hey all, I've been skimming the forums lately and it looks like a good knowledgeable crew here... Maybe someone can help me out. For a school project I am to make a weed-eater engine powered R/C car using inexpensive, everyday use materials. Nothing fancy, just a simple go-stop-left-right 30 mile per hour toy. Looking in the aftermarket goodies that you guys are into, I couldn't find any cheap radio accesories, so it was off to radio shack. I am now looking at some cheap cars that I could pull the electronics out of for this project but a little input would help me out a lot. Here's where I am....

http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...5Fid=60%2D4312

One s 27MHz and the other is 49, which will pick up the least interference from my 31cc ryobi engine and get better range? Or maybe the frequency has nothing to do with range... Like I aid I'm a newbie (for now). Also is there any way to make the engine stop or something when the car goes out of range? I know there's something like that on nitro airplanes so they don't go out of cotrol, might be useful to me if it's not expensive or extremely hard to set up. Thanks much for any ideas!!!
-Jason
Old 04-23-2003, 02:20 PM
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MikeMayberry
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

You don't want to use any radio equipment from radio shack. Here is what I suggest if you are on a tight budget.

Radio: http://www.hitecrcd.com/Radios/aggressorAM.htm
Failsafe: http://www.ofna.com/elec-failsafe.html
Old 04-23-2003, 02:27 PM
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Mac J
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

kinda afraid to ask what the prices would be on those... can't seem to find them. Project budget is $15, none of which has been touched yet. Probably should havementioned that earlier ;-) Thanks
-Jason
Old 04-23-2003, 02:48 PM
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Peter Khor
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

Just imo, this is looking to be a rather unsafe project from the start - building a 31cc radio control model capable for 30mph or more, add to that a cheap unreliable radio system and it can be all to easy to do some serious damage/bodily harm (esp. when you start demonstrating it in front of a crowd).

Other things to consider is if you're intending to use a servo for stearing, it'll have to be pretty high torque (there are other ways around that), I doubt the gear in that RS car could even operate the throttle on the Ryobi.

You might want to clarify the project objective again with your school, and the budget. You can get a used pistol-grip radio system with servos for around $30 if you look around, the failsafe unit (to shutdown the engine) alone is about $15 cheapest.
Old 04-23-2003, 04:25 PM
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amcross
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

Jason,
Ignition noise is a HUGE problem in model r/c equipment, and it is VERY unlikely the radio shak equipment is going to be adequately isolated to resolve that problem.

in model aircraft we distance at least 12" between ANYTHING related to the engine and anything related to radio gear, using nylon pushrods to throttle servos, kill switches, and such. But that is with high end high quality radio equipment.
Old 04-23-2003, 06:19 PM
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Aero330LX
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Default A formula

Here is a formula that you may want to take to whoever set the budget up for this wild scheme.

R/C + Cheap = Crash = danger

$15 wouldn't even buy a wheel for a car like that.

A decent (safe) R/C car for that size engine can easily go for 800 bucks. They are NOT toys. All of these models are actually minitures of the full size. They must have a 'certain' amount spent on them to assure they are safe. There is also alot to consider when using a gas engine...IGN noise, the parts connected to the engine must be able to withstand the added power, suspension must be able to withstand the added weight and forces etc... A gas r/c car is a high power machine, and when they get going they can really hurt somebody is care is not taken. I have seen small cars (.21 glow engined) that will go near 80 MPH!!! I would seriously recommend they rethink they're budget or rethink attempting this.
Old 04-23-2003, 08:11 PM
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Mac J
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I understand that this is a dangerous project, especially for someone like me who knows only the very basics of r/c equipment. Because of your concerns, I will spend the extra cash and get the better controls and fail safe. Granted, that won't make it completely safe by any means, but I will definitely take other safety measures when we do testing and demonstrations. There is actually a large construction area near my school where I will be taking the car, so if something goes horribly wrong it can only crash into dirt piles and parked bulldozers, and there will be an emergency shutoff within easy reach. I will also gear it down more-- originally we were looking at 4:1 which would equal 25-35 MPH with our wheels, but now 5.5-6:1 seems more reasonable. At least then I can run and have a fighting chance of getting out of the way, lol. So, tell me about this controller... it comes with the reciever and servo motors? Does it have a variable throttle or all or nothing? how about a guesstimate on range? I think I can deal with some of the interference, get a resistor spark plug and some metal shielding around the engine and electronics... Still open to ideas and suggestions so keep em coming :-) Thanks again,
-Jason
Old 04-23-2003, 08:42 PM
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amcross
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

"So, tell me about this controller... it comes with the reciever and servo motors? Does it have a variable throttle or all or nothing? how about a guesstimate on range? I think I can deal with some of the interference, get a resistor spark plug and some metal shielding around the engine and electronics... Still open to ideas and suggestions so keep em coming :-) "

Jason,
What controller are you considering? Don't go with the radio shak toy equipment for this.
Old 04-23-2003, 09:10 PM
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FLYBOY
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

Sure glad you aren't making something that flys. Sounds dangerous as is. Why don't you think about using a smaller engine and a control line car that goes in circles. Line to the car, line to a steak pounded into the ground. You could do that cheap. You won't have a runaway car that way too when your equipt doesn't work.
Old 04-24-2003, 02:01 PM
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Mac J
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

Just for the record, I am 19, not a toddler. I know it could be a dangerous project, especially in the hands of an amateur. I'm not testing it in the classroom or anywhere near innocent bystanders, but in a pit where it can't cause any harm if it crashes, explodes, loses control, turns into an ill-tempered blood-thirsty gremlin, etc.... I am building it at home, designing and planning it here at school on my own budget as an 'engineering' elective. Maybe I came on as an idiot when I mentioned radio shack equipment, if that is the case you should consider that I came here looking for a "go ahead" or "don't try it" from people who know more than me. IMHO, I would have really been stupid to pick up a ten-dollar toy and use the guts in my project without any research or asking around. I'm making every effort I know to make this work without sending anyone in for stitches, or worse. Can't I have a little credit for that???

OK enough with the ranting. I am interested in the controller and failsafe that Mike mentioned above.....

Since I have never bought aftermarket r/c equipment I have no idea what is included... I know I need the controller, the pickup device to control the car, and servo motors to attach to it to run the throttle and steering. The website is a little vague on what you get, and I don't even have the slightest clue where to buy such a thing (online) although I'll keep looking if no one has a suggestion. Thanks
-Jason
Old 04-24-2003, 02:10 PM
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amcross
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

I would not recommend AM for gasoline. I would instead suggest you look to purchase a reasonably priced FM system used here on the "classifieds" boards. There are literally a hundred different options out there, and its pretty tough to suggest a system for what you're doing because it doesn't fall into the 'normal' patterns.

MOST radio systems when purchased new come transmitter, receiver, at least one servo, maybe a speed control for motors, switch, charger if the radio has nicads, etc.

As far as where to buy, for your needs, quality used equipment here, IMO, is your best bet.
Old 04-24-2003, 02:23 PM
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Mac J
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

alright, I'll keep an eye on the classifieds. What should I be looking for, just any FM system in my budget? I know this engine us used fairly often in giant scale planes so there has got to be some good info on controllers floating around... Just gotta find it. Can someone explain to me frequencies and channels? The way I understand it, which is probably all wrong, is that ahigher frequency will give greater range but more potential for interference with a gas engine, and the more channels you have the more controls you can set up... In the meantime, I'll keep on searching! :-)
-Jason
Old 04-24-2003, 02:56 PM
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amcross
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

Jason,
You need to purchase an FM **GROUND** system on 75Mhz. You MUST use 75MHz for your model, you cannot use 72MHz which is an aircraft band. You could use 27MHz, 49MHz, or 50MHz but don't for reasons I wont get into here.

Channels can mean two diff things...
1) what channel are you on? this is a specific frequency within the frequency BAND, such as channel 65 is 75.xxx.
2) the number of separate controls on the model. So if you are going to have (1) throttle, (2) steering; (3) engine cut off, then you need at least a 3 channel controller. MOST brands the name of hte model tells you its number of channels. I used to work for Futaba so i'll use their examples. 3PDF, 3PJ, 3PJS, 3PK are all 3 channel systems of varying complexity.
Old 04-24-2003, 03:23 PM
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...681&forumid=29

Heres a link. This or something like it should do what you are trying to do. Futaba, JR, Hitec and airtronics all make something like this. They are all pretty good radios for what you are trying to do..
Old 04-25-2003, 01:52 PM
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Mac J
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

Flyboy, I did a little quick research on that radio and it looks to be AM. I'm still a little confused whether that's a good o bad thing for my project but I'm leaning towards bad. One more thing... Say I spend a whole lotta green on a nice 75MHz FM system and my ghetto-engineered weed eater car bites the dust... Can the same electronics be swapped into an electric r/c car?

This stuff is getting interesting... :-)
-Jason
Old 04-25-2003, 02:12 PM
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amcross
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

One more thing... Say I spend a whole lotta green on a nice 75MHz FM system and my ghetto-engineered weed eater car bites the dust... Can the same electronics be swapped into an electric r/c car?


Absolutely. FM is preferable for ALL modeling these days, but AM is a less expensive option for more simplistic models. The radio equipment can be used in just about anything that is "main stream" RC (read not Radio Shak or other toy grade).

Take some time and surf www.towerhobbies.com and www.horizonhobby.com just as 2 examples of major distributors to show you what's out there in our hobby. You'll enjoy what you see, i hope, and it will help you better recognize what's available.
Old 04-30-2003, 07:46 PM
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

Originally posted by amcross
..You could use 27MHz, 49MHz, or 50MHz but don't for reasons I wont get into here....
I guess I will then. Jason appears to not know alot about radios (not intended as a put down) and therefore I don't think he has a HAM license which is required for 50MHz. 27MHz and 49Mhz have very low transmitter power restrictions (much lower than normal RC gear therefore limited range and easy to interfear with) and are subject to significant interfearance from other transmiters since these bands have little regulation and are used for many things other than RC. This would make the use of these bands (27Mhz and 49Mhz) dangerous for anything that is much more that a small, slow toy. As has been pointed out in other posts anything with a gas engine is well beyond toy status.

Hal
AC6VZ
Old 04-30-2003, 08:05 PM
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Crashem
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

Jason,

My suggestion would be to get some books and go to a Hobby store and ask some questions. It's pretty obvious that you don't have a clue about R/C equipment and before attempting to design your own car I would think that it would make sense to find out all you can...

This site is a great start..But nothing beats spending a couple of afternoons around people who do this.

As far as books go Check with your library.

Just for the record, I am 19, not a toddler. I know it could be a dangerous project, especially in the hands of an amateur.
Don't take to much offense to the responses you've gotten but to an experienced person how you explianed your project initially sent up red flags.

The most dangerous aspect of this hobby IMHO is ignorance.. Learn then Do
Old 04-30-2003, 08:21 PM
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

Hey Jason, don't let these guys get you down. Your project sounds like a lot of fun. I think everyone here needs to go rent a copy of October Sky and just chill out.

I know what it's like to be on a budget, so I'll try to give you some tips on how to do this as cheaply as possible. First off, forget the FM radio. AM radios have been used in r/c gas cars for years, and they are A LOT cheaper. For starters I would recommend the hitec ranger for $39 at www.towerhobbies.com (stock number LXARP0). If that's still too expensive, you MAY be able to find an older used system on ebay for $20-$30. (It probably isn't worth the effort, though.) The standard servos with this radio will likely be strong enough to actuate your throttle.

I can't give you much advice on the car frame itself, execpt to keep it as small as possible. The smaller it is, the more likely you'll be able to steer it with a standard servo. I picture a motor on wheels. Hey, maybe you could mount suspension right onto the weed eater, he, he. Let us know how it turns out, and of course, use your head...be safe.
Old 04-30-2003, 08:52 PM
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

Quez,
forgive me, but i respectfully, but STRONGLY disagree with this statement:

"AM radios have been used in r/c gas cars for years, and they are A LOT cheaper"

AM radios are regularly used in NITRO cars (often erroneously called 'gas') but I don't believe i've ever seen or heard of someone running a GASOLINE car on AM.
Old 04-30-2003, 09:22 PM
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

Anne ,
FM seems to be the favored mode no doubt . In the earlier days however AM was used in quarter scale NASCAR and USAC midget type gasoline powered ,spark ignition engines . It was also used in many spark ignition powered planes in the early days of Quadra powered type giant planes. The negative comments regarding AM are sometimes overblown. Much of the reliability we now enjoy stems from better RX design and the credit is coat-tailed over to FM. AM does demand better equipment design and beginners tend to have an easier time debugging FM problems that are noise related .

I do agree that safety should take the front seat and a modern FM radio would be the best bet. Just wanted to give AM a fair rap

The comments about 27 mHZ someone else made may be in error. I can't put my fingers on the rules right now ,but as I recall 27 is allowed 2 or 3 watts power. I will try to find the section.

Cheers to you,
EllEff
Old 04-30-2003, 09:25 PM
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

I stand corrected and confirmed at the same time. Thanks LF. :-)
Old 04-30-2003, 10:17 PM
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

Originally posted by Ladyflyer
The comments about 27 mHZ someone else made may be in error. I can't put my fingers on the rules right now ,but as I recall 27 is allowed 2 or 3 watts power. I will try to find the section.
I think you're refering to section 95.210...
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Old 05-01-2003, 12:53 PM
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Default R/C newbie looking for opinions-cheap radio!

I built a model boat, 4 ft. long and powered it with a gasoline weedeater engine. I had an old AM 27 MHZ Heathkit 3 channel radio so used it and have had no problems at all. I used a resistor spark plug and the radio range with engine running or stopped is the same. Have used it for the past 5 years and it works excellently, have not noticed a single glitch.

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