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transission to 2.4 Ghz

Old 03-14-2008, 02:32 PM
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CloudSkipper
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Default transission to 2.4 Ghz

Hi,
Sorry to ask something that may have been asked already, but I've been away from this stuff for so long.

From searching on this, I found that you can mix digital and analog servos on any 2.4 Ghz RX. So if I were to buy a new generation radio, I could still use my old servos regardless of which TX I buy. Is that correct or are there exceptions?

The question I haven't found answers to is, are the radio manufacturers already starting to halt production of the old 72/35 Mhz PPM/PCM radios? Are the ones still in stock like the last ones out there?

The thing is that I'll need a new radio "sometime soon", but I'd like to continue with my old one for a while. And I don't mind buying a well-featured old generation radio IF the price is better than a 2.4 Ghz (I will not be flying big planes or doing intense 3D, etc). So I'm wondering if I wait several months before getting the new radio, am I likely to find that there are no more old generation radios by then?

Again sorry for perhaps asking what is to you guys an old question. I need to get up to speed on this and I didn't find all the answers through my searching. I'm wondering if I should be buying a radio sooner if I want the option of the old kind.

Thanks.... hopefully some else who's also been under a rock for a few years will benefit from these questions also
Old 03-14-2008, 03:21 PM
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Big Mike
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

Hi Cloudy

FM radios aren't going away very soon. The 2.4 mhz systems are great in all ways and they are the future of RC but, at this time, they have one fairly big drawback. The receivers run around $200 US and you need one for every plane you fly with the new system. The servos all work the same as with the FM setups. You can mix and match digitals and analogs in the same receiver. Also, I don't think FM is going to disappear immediatley from the stores. There's too many FM radios in use right now and even if they do stop producing them in the next year or two there will still be an incredible amount of fantastic used FM parts floating around at bargain prices.

The real and biggest advantage I can see with the 2.4's is that you don't have to worry about interference from "outlaw" fm users. There are some guys that don't belong to our club that fly within 1/4 mi of our field. One has a 2.4 and the other flies FM. The FM guy will some day take out one of our club member's planes when he comes in on the wrong channel (in this case ch 52 as I have been told). The widespread proliferation of these unafilliated "park fliers" make this a more and more common occurence.

I recently lost a beloved 25% Cap to a radio glitch and just the paranoia of not knowing the real cause will probably motivate me to go 2.4 on my favorite planes but keep my FM for all my other planes. I hope this gives you some perspective from my viewpoint.

Good Luck
Old 03-14-2008, 03:23 PM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

I don't know what the manufacturers are going to do but I can tell you that if you're buying new now you may as well go 2.4, when you decide to get another one in 6 months or whatever then you are going to have to replace any recievers as well so you may as well just start out that way.

Yes you can mix and match servos, there are some old airtronics servos that are wired differently but anything within the last few years is all compatable. RCKen has a nice picture he posts with the color coding of the various servos though.
Old 03-14-2008, 03:51 PM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

Thanks that pretty much clears it up for me.

The RX prices in particular are pretty prohibitive for me right now... so many other things I want to get like planes and maybe a even Heli later on.

My current prism TX has the dodgy-LCD problem... I'm still able to program it, it's just not as easy. And it doesn't have Heli progs. I'm trying not to rush into buying a new radio since I can still manage with this one for now... but I will need one and would be really costly to end up having to buy those 2.4 Ghz RX's.

Thanks for the info

Old 03-14-2008, 04:13 PM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

You might want to look into buying a good used FM systom that you can convert from FM to 2.4Ghz. I do not want to tell you what to buy, but I will use Futaba 9C as a refference. I've had my 9C since to first came out with the PCM & PPM (FM) capability. When the 2.4Ghz craze started I bought a 2.4 Ghz Fasst Module and 2.4Ghz reciever for it last August. I've been useing both the FM & 2.4Ghz set up in numerious planes until I could replace the FM recievers with 2.4Ghz Fasst Recivers.
I did send my 2.4Ghz Module & reciever in to be checked when the big scare came out a few months ago,and got them both back with a good bill of health. Since I've had the 2.4Ghz systom I have not had any problems with my 9C radio shooting down another plane.
Hobby Services checked by systom out and everthing was covered under warrant and they paid the return shipping. It only cost me $8.00 shipping & handleing. I got them back about a week later.
This year I was able to buy a Futaba 12fG and love it, the radio will work with my existing 2.4Ghz Receivers, and the only thing I have to do is reprogram the planes in my new transmitter.
Going to 2.4Ghz is a big step and Im an gradully moving up to all 2.4Ghz, it just takes time until you can afford it. The 9C radio is still in use and will be used as a back up transmitter in case my 12FG goes down.
So if cost is a problem, look for a good used FM systom that you can convert to 2.4Ghz, and you be fine. I've seen alot of Futaba 9C, 7C and 8U radios selling on RCU some for under $200.00, just becarefull on what you buy and buy smart.
NEDYOB
Old 03-14-2008, 04:15 PM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

There are many fliers in the same situation. The easiest long lasting solution seems to be to get one of the new transmitters that can accept an RF module for either 72 or 2.4. Then for the cost of a module you can fly your old recevers as long as you want and get into the 2.4 game at any tme for the cost of a module and as many new receivers as you can afford
Old 03-15-2008, 10:35 AM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

One issue I have not seen discussed has to do with where you intend to end up down the road if you go with the module system. Let me explain. You buy one brand of 2.4 Ghz module today for your Tx. You use your Tx with module as you convert over and buy more 2.4 Ghz Recievers. Eventually you have maybe 10 2.4 Ghz receivers. With that kind of investment, you are locked in as you upgrade your Tx. Again, say you had a Futaba 9C with a Spektrum module. As you upgrade, you want another Futaba Tx. Ok, as long as Futaba continues to sell Txs that still accept a module. If Futaba doesn't, then you need to change over to a Tx that works with your Spektrum receivers.

Put another way, whatever brand of receiver you buy today and use for all you planes will dictate what Tx you can buy in future roads. What if Futaba stops marketing a module system in two years - your mix and match system can't be upgraded then. On the flip side of the coin, go with the Futaba FAAST system - then you have to buy Futaba only at whatever price they determine. No longer can you mix and match. Proprietary systems aren't going to do much for competition down the road.

Dan
Old 03-15-2008, 11:48 AM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

I love my spektrum radio. I jumped in completely last year buying 7 receivers for my DX7. Most 2.4 receivers aren't $200. I see most 6-7 channel receivers in the $50-100 range if you are looking for 9+ channel you should expect to pay a bunch to upgrade.
Old 03-15-2008, 01:46 PM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

Well maybe Hitec will come out with a 2.4 Ghz reciever that will work with both Futaba, JR, Aritronics and maybe even Spectrum. We will see when the dust settles.
NEDYOB
Old 03-15-2008, 08:44 PM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

Thanks for the all the input.

I didn't know that the 2.4 Ghz system is not standardized between brands. That's not good for business in the long run.

I just noticed something that I overlooked previously about Hitec. They have not even come out with a 2.4 Ghz radio yet. I guess that means that they will be producing their FM radios for quite a while still. Since I'm thinking I'll just stick with Hitec, then that looks good for me. I don't need to rush with getting a new radio. The six and seven channel FM models should definately still be available as-new several months from now.

As for eventually changing to 2.4 Ghz, as long as the old servos are compatible, then I'm not overly concerned about the cost. And as stated here, one can gradually replace the old RX's with new ones while using both radios in the transission.

Old 03-15-2008, 10:21 PM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

PCM's aren't standardized between brands either but they thrived anyway.

I think all of the manufacturers will continue to 72 MHz sets but the quantity will gradually reduce.
Old 03-16-2008, 09:40 AM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

ORIGINAL: nedyob

Well matbe Hitec will come out with a 2.4 Ghz reciever that will work with both Futaba, JR, Aritronics and maybe even Spectrum. We will see when the dust settles.
NEDYOB
Airtronics just released their own 2.4 system; it's similar in how it transmits to the Futaba system (frequency hopping) but I don't know whether or not they are interchangeable.

However, Futaba and Spektrum/JR are NOT interchangeable, as they use two separate methods of transmitting the signal to the Rx. Futaba rapidly changes frequencies continuously (skipping any that are in use at the time), where Spektrum and JR lock on to two separate frequencies and transmit on both at the same time (it scans when you 1st turn on and finds two that aren't in use)

If you have a Futaba Tx that has a removable module (9C being one of them) you can get a 2.4 module from Spektrum that will fit, and it works under their system, or you can get the Futaba FAAST module and it will work on that system. Rx has to match the particular transmission method.

I bought the Spektrum 2.4 after being a "dyed-in-the-wool" Futaba guy,(Futaba hadn't released theirs at the time, I wanted a new system for the plane I was building) and I like it as far as not having to worry about frequency control. I also have a Futaba 9C that I am going to convert to 2.4 by adding a 2.4 module, but I am going to get the FAAST module, as there are some issues with the Spektrum that I don't like, mainly that the DX-7 Tx doesn't have some of the programmability that my 9C has, and there are some issues I have read about regarding voltage cutoff, that I haven't heard happening with the FAAST system.(and I lost a 1/4 scale Decathlon because of it)
Although Spektrum hasn't said anything (that I know of), they are now shipping their systems with a 6V battery instead of the 4.8V. Maybe that will take care of things.
Old 03-16-2008, 11:21 AM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

This whole transition period coming down the road will surely bring a settling out of brands and systems. To me it's kind of like Microsoft vs. Apple but instead it's Futaba vs. JR/Spektrum. They don't have to do in the other company to survive. Futaba and JR have existed side by side for a long time. Although I've always gone with Futaba transmitters, with a 9C being my main platform, I've used mostly Hitec or Berg receivers (for both cost and reliability). Hitec servos too. I like 'em. I hope Hitec or somebody similar will enter the game, at least with receivers, to keep Futaba and JR from monopolizing the market and thereby keeping the prices high. Unfortunately, with the economy being so shakey right now, some companies might not survive the transition. This is not a good time to be investing big bucks in new R&D and manufacturing set ups. Interesting times ahead for this hobby and our country in general.

I was 90% sure I was going to go with a new 2.4 ghz. JR setup until I read some of the postings in this thread, especially what Khodges said about AR entering the market and Spektrum having possible teething problems with their stuff. It just reminded me that we are still only in the beginning of this transition and there's probably still a lot of shaking out to come.
Old 03-16-2008, 05:35 PM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz


ORIGINAL: khodges

ORIGINAL: nedyob

Well matbe Hitec will come out with a 2.4 Ghz reciever that will work with both Futaba, JR, Aritronics and maybe even Spectrum. We will see when the dust settles.
NEDYOB
Airtronics just released their own 2.4 system; it's similar in how it transmits to the Futaba system (frequency hopping) but I don't know whether or not they are interchangeable.

However, Futaba and Spektrum/JR are NOT interchangeable, as they use two separate methods of transmitting the signal to the Rx. Futaba rapidly changes frequencies continuously (skipping any that are in use at the time), where Spektrum and JR lock on to two separate frequencies and transmit on both at the same time (it scans when you 1st turn on and finds two that aren't in use)

If you have a Futaba Tx that has a removable module (9C being one of them) you can get a 2.4 module from Spektrum that will fit, and it works under their system, or you can get the Futaba FAAST module and it will work on that system. Rx has to match the particular transmission method.

I bought the Spektrum 2.4 after being a "dyed-in-the-wool" Futaba guy,(Futaba hadn't released theirs at the time, I wanted a new system for the plane I was building) and I like it as far as not having to worry about frequency control. I also have a Futaba 9C that I am going to convert to 2.4 by adding a 2.4 module, but I am going to get the FAAST module, as there are some issues with the Spektrum that I don't like, mainly that the DX-7 Tx doesn't have some of the programmability that my 9C has, and there are some issues I have read about regarding voltage cutoff, that I haven't heard happening with the FAAST system.(and I lost a 1/4 scale Decathlon because of it)
Although Spektrum hasn't said anything (that I know of), they are now shipping their systems with a 6V battery instead of the 4.8V. Maybe that will take care of things.
While Futaba and Airtronics both use Freq Hopping they use slightly different technology/coding/hopping. They will not be compatible.
Old 03-16-2008, 06:36 PM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz


ORIGINAL: nedyob

Well maybe Hitec will come out with a 2.4 Ghz reciever that will work with both Futaba, JR, Aritronics and maybe even Spectrum. We will see when the dust settles.
NEDYOB
There seems to be no info available as to what Hitec is doing in this arena. In searching on 2.4Ghz/Hitec, I did find this [link=http://www.xtremepowersystems.net/proddetail.php?prod=XPS-CPF1-8]2.4 Ghz module for Hitec Eclipse and Optic with RX combo[/link]
Old 03-17-2008, 11:26 AM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

The link is for XPS. I bought it for my Optic 6 last April and flew hundreds of flights with five planes last summer with absolutely no problems. I like it very much, although some say it's rf link is not as robust at Spektrum or Futaba.
Old 03-17-2008, 01:13 PM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz


ORIGINAL: Foamaholic

The link is for XPS. I bought it for my Optic 6 last April and flew hundreds of flights with five planes last summer with absolutely no problems. I like it very much, although some say it's rf link is not as robust at Spektrum or Futaba.
Thanks. I haven't found feedback specifically relating to Optic 6 and XPS. I've read more about XPS since that post and apparently XPS is perhaps not as robust with the core protocol (the frequency hopping, etc), but it supposedly takes better advantage of the possibilities with things like telemetry. People seem to really like XPS and the customer service as well.

I was planning on getting the Optic 6, but have been a little deterred by all the reports of problems with standard RF module (especially the synthesized one). If I were to get the Optic 6, I would use the RF module for at least a season before upgrading to XPS, so I'm not sure. But you've been happy with the Optic 6 overall? It does have good features.

Cheers
Old 03-17-2008, 03:33 PM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

Yes I like the Optic a lot. Have had it for around 3 years. I have the synth module and it always worked, never a problem with it. The only thing I don't like is that sometimes the buttons and trim buttons don't work the first time I press them. I find it very easy to program.
Old 03-17-2008, 07:02 PM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

Bruce - You are right about PCM not being standardized, but there were a lot more PPM receivers sold that PCM - just look at all that Hitec sold. I would say that the 2.4Ghz recievers will be like PCM - proprietary and only sold by the mfg - so don't expect Hitec to get in the market selling anyone's 2.4 Ghz receiver. Reading the tea leaves - I expect Futaba to eventually move to an integrated Tx down the road that is only 2.4 Ghz - so you cannot mix and match anymore. I am glad that they were pushed into offering 2.4 - I don't think they would have gone there if they didn't have the competition.

I have pretty much settled on the 12Z package that is advertised to come out in April - but I am concerned about balance of the unit - will have to check it out at the Toledo show if they have some units there.

Dan
Old 03-17-2008, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

ORIGINAL: Foamaholic

Yes I like the Optic a lot. Have had it for around 3 years. I have the synth module and it always worked, never a problem with it. The only thing I don't like is that sometimes the buttons and trim buttons don't work the first time I press them. I find it very easy to program.
Thanks. That helps me toward making a good decision on this. There are several reasons why I think I would like the Optic 6 a lot. I don't want to unnecessarily rule it out in making my choice.

Could be that some people just are not careful enough with removing and reinserting the RF module.... with gadgets made for a more niche market, you can't always assume that the devices are reasonably protected against rough handling like you would normally expect from a relatively costly device.

ORIGINAL: RCPilot100
..... I expect Futaba to eventually move to an integrated Tx down the road that is only 2.4 Ghz - so you cannot mix and match anymore. .....

Dan
I was just wondering what you meant with the mixing and matching. Mixing and matching what?

Cheers
Old 03-17-2008, 07:31 PM
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Paul Cataldo
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

Guys,
I too am in the process of switching over to 2.4, and I have one question, in regards to "Big Mikes" post up above, in POST #2 of this thread.
His quote is as follows:
"The 2.4 mhz systems are great in all ways and they are the future of RC but, at this time, they have one fairly big drawback. The receivers run around $200 US and you need one for every plane you fly with the new system."

I do not understand WHY it is that I apparently "need" a Rx for "every plane I fly" ???

Can someone explain this? Why can't I have two planes and use only 1 2.4 Rx in between these two planes whenever I feel like doing so?????
Old 03-17-2008, 09:24 PM
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Big Mike
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

Paul

You can switch receivers back and forth between planes if you want. The only potential problems I know of are that as you pull the servo and power connectors on and off they get looser and looser. There's also the possibility of reversing something like ailerons. I've done both things mentioned but luckily caught the flubs before flying in pre flight check. To me it's worth it to have one receiver with its own battery for each plane and never mess with it once it's installed.
Old 03-17-2008, 09:36 PM
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Paul Cataldo
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

Yes yes, I totally agree that it's BAD JUJU to constantly be fiddling with standard JR type connectors, and that is why I have started using HEAVY DUTY Deans Ultra plugs on EVERY connection possible in my plane. The servo leads on my servos have the servo extensions SOLDERED ON, and then I am buying my switches, regulators (if using LI ION), and batteries with HD 14, 16, or 18awg wiring w/ Deans HD Ultra Plugs on them too.
SO, these Deans Ultra Plugs can be fiddled with AS MUCH as I possibly want, without the fear of one crapping out on me.
I simply HATE standard JR connectors, and I cannot figure out for the LIFE of me, why Futaba and JR won't make Rx's that have slots for higher quality connectors. I realize it wouldn't be feasible to have a 10ch Rx with Deans Ultra Plugs going into it, as it would be literally HUGE, but they COULD come up with some type of connector that is BETTER in quality than those stupid JR universal connectors.
Thanks. Sorry for the confusion, but your post just seemed to suggest a Rx could not be moved from one plane to another very easily...
Thanks buddy!
Old 03-17-2008, 09:42 PM
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

I was going over the RX install instructions for a Futaba 2.4 Ghz TX and saw that you have to secure the dual antennas at right angles to each other to insure proper reception at all angles. That's just another thing that has to be done right and securely during each move. I think there may be an assumption out there that the 2.4 Ghz RX antenna involves no fuss, but that's not the case apparently. I wouldn't want to be swapping a single RX around for a number of reasons.
Old 03-17-2008, 10:06 PM
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Paul Cataldo
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Default RE: transission to 2.4 Ghz

Ok, wow, is this the case with the JR 2.4 Rx's too? You have to put them at RIGHT ANGLES to each other?? Geez. Pain in the butt. Not the biggest deal though.

One more thing guys, regarding Futaba 2.4 Receivers:

Do these Futaba 2.4 Rx's have the same exact type of "plug-in slots" as the regular 72mhz Rx's do?
IF I am planning on buying my first Futaba 2.4 radio (the Futaba 10C when it comes out soon), OR IF I decide to go with a JR 2.4 9303 right now, then will my regular switches with standard type JR connectors plug into these new 2.4 Rx's, OR do they have different "plug in slots"????
I ask, because I saw a guy post a pic the other day, of a JR/Spektrum "AR9100"???(I think) which had some funky leads coming off of it, with weird plugs, and I do not know what they were for?
Do my switches plug into the new 2.4 Rx's, in the same manner, and with the same old standard JR Universal connectors as usual??? Thanks guys.

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