Notices
RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros Discussion all about rc radios, transmitters, receivers, servos, etc.

Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

Old 06-21-2008, 07:18 PM
  #1  
craigteffe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (24)
 
craigteffe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Maryville, TN
Posts: 855
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

Hello to all,
Just wanted to let everone concerned that Futaba has a very big problem with thier recievers. myself and a friend just recently purchased the module and recievers for our airplanes. I have yet to install mine but my friend installed his in a comp Arf Yak the 100cc size. I was flying my airplane and standing on the flight line when my friend started his airplane getting ready to fly he started to taxi out to the taxi way and the plane lost signal and went full throttle the plane missed me by inches and then it chewed thru another airplane that was landing and went off down the runway and demolished itself. We were very lucky no one was hurt.


When we got the airplne back to the pits we started troubleshooting it and what we found was nothing at first the plane was responding everyting was fine, i told my friend to do a range chek and when he started to walk away the plane stoped responding he walked back to the plane and still nothing. We turned everything off and checked out other things like the batteries and switches still nothing. Then we power the plane back up and to our supprise eveything seemed to ok, so he worked the gimbles and in about 1 min. the reciever went to red state. Then we check the tem of the reciever and it was at 143 degrees then we shut everything back down and let the reciever cool down and try to repeat the problem, we installed the canopy and wala within 1 min the reciever stoped responding again check the tem of the reciever again and it was at 140 degrees.

I had started a thread on futaba forum 3 or so weeks ago about a problem with a reciever failure at Joe Nall due to heat and this was BAX's response.


Futaba has been made aware of the claims and is looking into them.

_____________________________

Bill Baxter, Manager Hobby Services/Futaba Service/North America
3002 N. Apollo Dr. Ste. 1 Champaign, IL 61822 USA
Service Phone: 217 398-0007
Email: [email protected]





Futaba has been selling a product that has no place in our hobby. Had I gotten hit by this airplane I would be suing Futaba. They need to recall these recievers and and refund all of us our money or fix the problem.
Old 06-21-2008, 08:00 PM
  #2  
summerwind
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: fresno, CA
Posts: 3,987
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

your friend installs the new receiver even though you have been warning folks about a heat issue?
your friend installs a new receiver in an expensive airplane and does not initiate Fail Safe at least for throttle?

you have any pictures of all this destruction?

and 143* YOU SAY..........must have been a real cooker on the flight line today eh?
so the Rx was inside the canopy too?
Old 06-21-2008, 08:14 PM
  #3  
Hog78
My Feedback: (36)
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: maryville, TN
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

Umm let me interject. A: you trust a product that you have used for 4 years! B: fail safe was set to low and all other surfaces to neutral C: my friend who was jipped by this incedent does not take any shortcuts in this hobby or spare any expence and who is Verry dedicated. D: both myself and my friend who this incedent are aircraft mechanics myself A & P if that means anything. what it boils down to after seeing the post incendent diagnostics was heat related failure and in East Tenn. today it wasnt that hot. but the RX was doing bad things. I am a JR owner. but can tell after seeing the evidence RX failure was the issue. Oh ya anyway when a RX fails as in this case what good woud fail safe be anyway? my 2 cents worth. Hog 78
Old 06-21-2008, 08:16 PM
  #4  
craigteffe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (24)
 
craigteffe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Maryville, TN
Posts: 855
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

It was 87 Degrees here in east tennessee today.

I was told the problem with the recievers was the 14 channel not the 8 channel.

I purchased the same setup but did not install because of what i read here and because i just had not got the time yet.

Also when we measures the temp of the batteries they were reading 100 degrees.

We will get the pictures soon.
Old 06-21-2008, 08:22 PM
  #5  
summerwind
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: fresno, CA
Posts: 3,987
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

but as you said from the Joe Nall problem, you knew a problem existed and so far everyone has posted that the 8 and the 14 are suspect.
with that knowledge, and the response from Bill you still went ahead and made the purchase?
what radios are you using?

the temp on the batteries sounds bout right, but the 143* temp of the Rx smells a little fishy.
i'm not saying that it didn't happen, but pictures of the damage say a lot.
if this is all true then i agree that Futaba isn't out of the woods, but it does look like they are riding the whole heat issue thing out.
Old 06-21-2008, 08:25 PM
  #6  
summerwind
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: fresno, CA
Posts: 3,987
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

also, i have performed some testing of what would be barely tolerable on my 608's and 6014 that came with my 12Z........no problems so far.
Old 06-21-2008, 08:30 PM
  #7  
mrjetpilot
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

Exactly how was the receiver mentioned in the beginning of this thread mounted? Was it wrapped in foam? Was it sitting in the sun under the canopy?
Old 06-21-2008, 08:44 PM
  #8  
DougV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Miramar, FL
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

Graig:

If I was you, I’d be sending that receiver to Futaba, it may be a bad one. We did some tests here in South Florida under 105F heat, Exposing two 608 rx to the sun on purpose and after 1.5 hours we were not able to fail it. Some guy in Germany was able to fail it at 182F, but then again, this is way more that Futaba recommends.

Sorry for you loss.

Regards,
Doug.
Old 06-21-2008, 10:18 PM
  #9  
craigteffe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (24)
 
craigteffe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Maryville, TN
Posts: 855
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

Again this is not my plane but a friend of mine. The reciever was mounted on top of a power expander no foam was used around the reciever.

It was sitting under canopy, but so were the batteries. It would be fine untill we would pull the pin from the switch and from that point on the reciever would start heating up.when it hit 140 degrees it would stop responding to the transmitter. This temp was measured on the outside of the case, so i would think the inside temp on the components would be more.

I don't know about you guys but if i see people reporting failures and i have heard of a few, and now I have seen one with my own eyes that gives me no confidence in that product, and i don't want to loose one of my planes because of a reciever that should not be out there. The risk is too great for me now Anybody want to purchase 2 new still in the box R608FS recievers, that is if i cannot return them, I may also have TM-8 Module and another reciever if tower will not give me credit for these.

Old 06-21-2008, 11:24 PM
  #10  
Dick T.
My Feedback: (243)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Visalia, CA
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 0
Received 13 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

How much heat does a power expander generate?
Were the antennas outside of the composite fuse? (some composite materials and carbon fibre block the signal)
Was the receiver shielded in any way? (2.4 components are UV sensitive)

Too many variables here but the easiest is to raise the beaten to death temperature issue. If the receiver got that hot that quick it may be a defective one or something else caused the rapid heat build up or signal loss.

There are numerous positive reports of these receivers working fine in high heat environments to blame the entire series so your friend may have a defective one or an installation issue.

And for all the experience you listed, why was a range check not performed and why was throttle failsafe not set?? (This is safety 101 for gassers).

In this case the receiver could be defective or there was an accumulation of oversight leading up to the incident. As an A&P you know that most air crashes are an accumulation of errors, few of which are equipment failures.

My opinion is we are not getting the whole story here.
Old 06-21-2008, 11:37 PM
  #11  
ira d
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Maricopa County AZ
Posts: 3,249
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

fail safe wont work if the receiver or its battery fails
Old 06-21-2008, 11:47 PM
  #12  
craigteffe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (24)
 
craigteffe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Maryville, TN
Posts: 855
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

Throttle failsafe was set, when the reciever fails you have nothing failsafe is for when the reciever recieves no signal from the transmitter, if you were as smart as you thought you were you would already have known this and not have had to ask the question. We were able to reproduce the problem after the failure. The antennas were inside the fuse.

The range check was fine, this was done earlier in the day. He already had 1 flight on this plane early in the day when the temp wasn't as hot and when it was cloudy and all was fine.

You are getting the whole story if you choose not to believe it that is up to you.

If you could read you would know that i am not the A&P, I am just the person trying to help get the information out. I was there when it happened and helped to troubleshoot the problem.

Don't accuse someone of lying when you don't knowif they are or not it always brings out the worst in people.
Old 06-22-2008, 12:31 AM
  #13  
Dick T.
My Feedback: (243)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Visalia, CA
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 0
Received 13 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat


ORIGINAL: craigteffe

Throttle failsafe was set, when the reciever fails you have nothing failsafe is for when the reciever recieves no signal from the transmitter, if you were as smart as you thought you were you would already have known this and not have had to ask the question. We were able to reproduce the problem after the failure. The antennas were inside the fuse.

The range check was fine, this was done earlier in the day. He already had 1 flight on this plane early in the day when the temp wasn't as hot and when it was cloudy and all was fine.

You are getting the whole story if you choose not to believe it that is up to you.

If you could read you would know that i am not the A&P, I am just the person trying to help get the information out. I was there when it happened and helped to troubleshoot the problem.

Don't accuse someone of lying when you don't knowif they are or not it always brings out the worst in people.
Why get pis*y, didn't say you were lying. Another fellows post mentioned A&P, confused his malarky with yours, sorry.

Sounds like he had a defective receiver. Either heat sensitive or some other component failure causing the temperature rise (stalled servos, defect in power expander, high current drain somewhere heating up the receiver or just a bad receiver). Doesn't mean the whole series is bad as you want to claim.

By all means, send your stuff back to Tower and move on. There are plenty of guys waiting on backorder status.

And as far as this statement:
ORIGINAL: craigteffe
Futaba has been selling a product that has no place in our hobby. Had I gotten hit by this airplane I would be suing Futaba. They need to recall these recievers and and refund all of us our money or fix the problem.
You're the expert, I'm sure.
Old 06-22-2008, 12:50 AM
  #14  
victorzamora
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

I can't believe no one has caught this as of yet!!! I'm pretty excited that I'm the first one to point this out actually!

The reciever was mounted on top of a power expander
Please read hint #3 on this thread, posted by Bax: [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7606959/tm.htm]Guidelines[/link]
One more thing, how do I make the quote thingy show who I'm quoting? Either way...the quote is from Craig's post in Post #9 above.
Old 06-22-2008, 12:55 AM
  #15  
summerwind
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: fresno, CA
Posts: 3,987
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

look, all we have to go on here is that what you say is the truth, but you haven't really expanded on the details.
you have admitted that the Rx is mount under the canopy, so right there you are saying that your friend ignored all the warnings and suggestions as expressed by Bill Baxter in his advisory..............so what are we discussing here?
your friends ignorance, or Futabas?

what do you expect here.............you tell all of us how you have been a loyal Futaba user for over 10 years, but your friend takes a brand new untested Rx, and mounts it in a very expensive plane and proceeds to just go flying like he's used this radio component for years.
i'm sorry, but where i come from in the RC world, no one in their right mind takes an expensive plane and mounts a new and untested Radio or Rx in it and just goes flying, especially one that is related to heat failure. it's common practice to mount any such component in a test bed and fly the snot out if it to make sure the radio is solid before using it in such a plane as "your friend" did.
you also posted that the Rx was at 143* on an 87* day.
either the Rx is victim of an extreme Amp draw, or the Rx was mounted under a canopy which we all know at this time is pure death. so the facts are not quite clear on this whole story of yours.
and for a Rx to work in the testing you guys did after the crash and then within a minute of turning it on it suddenly goes RED means that soemthing was not right.

again like i said, i tested all my current Rx's in extremeties that i would not usually fly in and no problems found.

some pictures? witnesses?..........give us soemthing here will ya?
Old 06-22-2008, 12:57 AM
  #16  
summerwind
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: fresno, CA
Posts: 3,987
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat


ORIGINAL: victorzamora

I can't believe no one has caught this as of yet!!! I'm pretty excited that I'm the first one to point this out actually!

The reciever was mounted on top of a power expander
Please read hint #3 on this thread, posted by Bax: [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7606959/tm.htm]Guidelines[/link]
One more thing, how do I make the quote thingy show who I'm quoting? Either way...the quote is from Craig's post in Post #9 above.
it doesn't matter at this point, the Rx was also mounted under the canopy, and as you pointed out on top of a power expander...........basically the conversation is over.
Old 06-22-2008, 12:58 AM
  #17  
victorzamora
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

Hey, summerwind...how do you get it to show who the original person is? Like...when you quoted me, it says "original: victorzamora" but in mine, it doesn't. Do you type that in there or what?
Old 06-22-2008, 01:01 AM
  #18  
summerwind
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: fresno, CA
Posts: 3,987
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

ORIGINAL: victorzamora

yo, summerwind...how do you get it to show who the original person is? like...when you quoted me, it says "original: victorzamora" but in mine, it doesn't. do you type that in there owr what?
look at the upper right hand corner of the post that you are reading, it shows a "quote", and you just click on that, then below the Quote post your remarks.
Old 06-22-2008, 01:03 AM
  #19  
victorzamora
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

Awesome. I hadn't noticed it before. Now, all of my quotes can be done professionally . Thanks!
Old 06-22-2008, 05:15 AM
  #20  
CustomPC
Senior Member
 
CustomPC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SydneyNSW, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 932
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

Something is not right.

You say "the plane lost signal and went full throttle".

If failsafe was set correctly and was activated it should've went to idle.
OR
If it was a receiver failure the servos should've remained excactly where there were. Just 1 servo (ie the throttle) going to max seems unusual. Why didn't the other servos on the aileron, rudder and elevator also go to full travel.

If he was taxing at the time i would expect the engine to remain at taxi rpms just above idle.

I have read many reports of these heat related failures an so far i have not read one that says the servos moved when the receiver shut down.
Old 06-22-2008, 05:35 AM
  #21  
skorp_jon
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: odranci, SLOVENIA
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

Why did u mount receiver on the power expander ?

Power expander produces heat.
Old 06-22-2008, 05:58 AM
  #22  
Hirobofly
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Vestfold, NORWAY
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

Well, if this was a pilot-error, the pilot would probably be banned from the site or get some sort of reaction, so they have all to win to make this a equipment-failure to have something to blame. At least make it plausible...
Also it seems a bit strange that a post like that emerges after the same person tried to make a case for 3 weeks ago, but did not perhaps get the response he wanted. -Now suddenly there is a "case" he can use.
So, I would say they have an agenda.

I also noted that in that post that for some reason the throttle should go from idle to full throttle when the receiver "stopped responding". They also claim they reproduced the "problem" that they now claim to be temperature-related, but do not mention anything about the throttle goes from idle to full every time. Did the throttle move?? -I think not.
Now they try to make it look exactly like the "problems" with the 6014 receiver to support the agenda.

For sure something happend that day, but it could might as well be pilot-error. Or problem with another unit.

Another thing; The powerbox/power-expander used in this model, is it new? There have been some post about that such units does not like the lower signal-voltage from the Futaba-receivers, and this could cause erratic behavior. Could this unit be the cause?
Also if the powerbox produces heat, it is just stupid to mount anything on top of it.

It is almost impossible to get the hole picture, as people do many strange things and nobody likes to accept that they did something stupid. So, the "facts" they provide regarding installation can not be verified.

I've been in this hobby for over 20 year, and I've seen many strange problems and a huge number of pilot-errors (and done my share as well of stupid things!) and several of those have caused potentially dangerous situations. In most cases the problem is a combined mix of pilot-error and technical installation problems. But since the pilot also is responsible of the technical installations, most problems here are then related to the pilot-error issue.....

In many cases the cause for the problem was never found since the model was total wreck, and I see that it is easy then to blame a manufaturer and try to make them prove that it was not the cause. If the manufaturer cannot prove it, well then they are to blame....... Or?
Or to make them self feel better; start a post of bashing a vendor in different forums and demanding answers. Also when they hide behind words like "safety" and "just informing others about the problem", etc it is a good idea to start asking if this is a really true story. Something happend, but perhaps not exactly like it is being told in that post......


Hirobofly
Old 06-22-2008, 07:32 AM
  #23  
Hog78
My Feedback: (36)
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: maryville, TN
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat

Hey fellas, No bashing here and my other post did noy mean to be a bash. just info. Friends plane had a 72 mhx RX living in the same spot as his "new one" for around 1 year with no ill effects. I guess trying to get the info out you all let us "vent" at my Bros loss. Didnt find any heat posts for JR or Spectrum. LOL little brand war levity Thanks Hog
Old 06-22-2008, 07:49 AM
  #24  
Josey Wales
Senior Member
My Feedback: (61)
 
Josey Wales's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: **, NJ
Posts: 4,741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat


ORIGINAL: skorp_jon

Why did u mount receiver on the power expander ?

Power expander produces heat.
How ?
Old 06-22-2008, 08:32 AM
  #25  
DougV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Miramar, FL
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat


ORIGINAL: Hog78

Friends plane had a 72 mhx RX living in the same spot as his "new one" for around 1 year with no ill effects. I guess trying to get the info out you all let us "vent" at my Bros loss. Didnt find any heat posts for JR or Spectrum. LOL little brand war levity Thanks Hog
Don't think that way, this is new technology, I tried to use the same battery 4.8 that I always use with 72Mhz when I went with Spektrum, real quickly (Lock-out) I learn that the new system needed more power, lots of pilots learn that lesson the hard way.

How much you want for those 608's? I'm ordering four this week.

Doug.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.