PoMan

I just won a Spectrum DX7 radio at a local raffle, yea ha! When I went to the LHS to pick it up I decided to buy another AR7000 receiver for another airplane of mine and the LHS only had the AR6000, he said that it would work just fine on a full size aircraft. After I got home I looked at the package real close and it specifically states for Park Flyers only. In the instructions for then DX7 it says that the AR6000 can be used but for "Park Flyers Only." Have I been dupped or will this work. I would like to use it on a 40 size biplane with 5 JR 527 servos. Can I do it and what are the consequences.
PoMan

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

The manual is absolutely correct and the LHS guy fed you a line. The AR6000 is designed for use in Park Flyers ONLY. Yes, you might possible get away with it in a larger plane, but you could just as easily crash your plane. Look at the receiver that came with the DX7 and you will see the biggest difference. That is the "remote" receiver that is connected to the main part of the receiver. This is how they have implemented the DSM2 technology. Because of the short wavelength of the 2.4 Ghz systems it's possible that the receiver could be blocked by the engine, muffler, fuel tank, or other items. By putting a second remote receiver in the radio now listens on two frequencies with the two parts seperated by at least 2" it's unlikely that they will be blocked by something in the plane. This also gives them the added distance needed for larger glow powered planes. I would take the AR6000 receiver back to the LHS and ask for your money back becuase he misrepresented the item.

Ken

PoMan

Ken, As usual you have been very helpful with your response. Your name pops up a lot, that a good thing. I have already ordered a DS7000 from Horizon to replace the DS6000 soon to be returned to my LHS. I hope that when I do return the receiver and show them in the manual and on the product package that the DS6000 should be used for Park Flyers only that they will not try to sell others the same thing. I am a little dissapointed in my LHS for this but will not scratch them from my list of places to go when I go to town. It is a great treat for me to go into the shop and look at all the models hanging from the ceiling, check out how others build their planes and brouse through all the neat stuff hanging on the walls, and yes I purchase something every time I go in there. I will be a lot more cautious in asking for advice from the ,so called, experts in the future though.
Gary

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

It's kind of sad when you can't trust the LHS, but it does happen....

Another rx you may want to consider is the relatively new AR6200 rx which is six channel like the 6000, but it also has the satellite rx so it's considered a full range rx and is approved for all models. It's a bit cheaper than the 7000 and a tad bit smaller so if you only need 6 channels it's a good option.

rmh

sounds like you are on a tight budget -
no sweat - about all you really need to do to ensure good performance is use a battery system which supplies plenty of power and stays above 4.8 volts as you measure it under load.
The 6000 rx will work at longer ranges but ONLY if it has a clear view of the tx - The Spectrum folks want to make sure you have the best setup so they don't recommend these 6000 rx for anything but up close n personal - Neither would I.
But I have tested em with on board altimeter to 1900 ft -and flown em out a 1/4 mile .
I also have a clutch of 6100 rx and all of em will fly as far as I can see to maneuver the model back home.
If you( or someone else) make a poor installation which limits range - you will get in trouble -that's why the 6100 /6000 are recommended for up close .
It won't hurt for you to do some long range ground checks with model revolved 36-0 degrees and LEARN what may block a signal
After all- it is your responsibility .

PoMan

Cheep, tight Wad, Frugal, What ever you call it I just don't like spending money unnecessarily. I sure like your idea of ranage checking and rotating the model to find blind spots. I think I may just try that on a 40 size stick I have been working on. I was hoping that I would come across someone that has actually tried to use these park flyer receivers on a full size. Thanks for the help.
PoMan (Cheep Man)

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

They have been used in larger planes with mixed results. In other words some did and some didn't. In my store you would not have goten the "it works" from me. If it doesn't it would be my fault. If I were in your place I would take it back and get the 6100 and play it safe. While your there find out if the sales person is the owner or not, in any case he'd know that I wasn't happy with the information i got.
The only thing a LHS has to offer the the MO can't is good information, thats what keep customers coming back. To give you what you want to hear just for a sale is poor business. Service first sales second. I've refused to sell to some things to new people because it always comes back to you.
You now have the correct information. What you do with it is now up to you. I've seen the 6000 work for 5 flights then take a dump on 6. The plane did recover and he landed, but that was the last time he used a 6000 in a 40 size plane. Dennis

tomlee

My Feedback: (1)

Guys, I have been flying AR6000's ever since I spektrumized a DR6102. I now have a DX-7 which I like very much, so now I fly a mixture of both 6000 and 7000 receiveers. I am not going to throw away the 6000's ( of which I have several) and waste 3 or 400 bucks.

I have AR6000's in several 60 size airplanes some with 1100mh 4.8v NIMH and some with a low impedence 1650mh 6v. NIMH battery. Part of my pre-flight is to top off my batteries and check them under a load.

My instalation includes using 2 short antenna tubes to keep the antennas apart and going in different directions. Sometimes, one of the tubes is protuding from the bottom of the fuse, sometimes up into the canopy, and sometimes just separated in the fuse.

We had a 120 size S.P.A.D. with a small gasoline engine, and it was giving everyone fits with interference. Someone asked me to use my Spektrum. We installed an AR6000, the glitches were gone and the airplane flew the rest of the day.

I am currently working on a 1/4 scale Laser 200 with a S.T. G2300 for an engine. The AR6000 is going into the servo complartment just under the canopy on the former that shapes the turtledeck. That locates it away from the wing tube, wiring, etc. And, this airplane has flown with the DR6102DX xmttr and the AR6000 recvr. I am converting it the DX-7 and correcting some things. Range testing and flying hopefully next week.

Cheers, Tom

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

Like I said before, it is your choice if you want to use the 6000 is larger planes. But I believe a time will come when it bites in the butt. If you have to buy a receiver get the one that has the rating for the plane you want to use it in. If someone is hurt the AMA can say "sorry" about having no insurance. Dennis

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

You know I've been thing about this more while I'm working on my plane this morning. I'm a CD and if anyone showed up at one of my events with anything more then a park flyer using a AR6000 and I knew about it, they would't fly.
Spektrum has said it's not safe, therfore you have no wiggle room. This is a safety issue plain and simple.
If a person sets up a plane knowing what he is doing is a safety violation to save a few dollars what would he do with the rest of the planes setup to save more money.
I fly giant scale, I've flown with the jet guys. Neither group would ever think about saving money at the expence of safety.
You spend money to make your planes as safe as possible, not only for yourself and your investment but for the other people around you that trust that you would't skip safety to save money.
Dennis Baack CD
AMA 2747

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

Amen Dennis....

As for tomlee; we're already fighting to keep flying fields with all the pressure on local governments from development, soccer moms, baseball programs, noise complainers and some who just consider our hobby dangerous. There have been several incidents involving RC models around the world that have resulted in tragic results and calls for the elimination of the hobby, not to mention the ever present and growing concern from mostly uninformed people with regard to Home Land Security. Your cavalier attitude toward safety is a black eye on all of us when your practices come home to roost.

tomlee

My Feedback: (1)

Dennis, the last thing I want to do is to get into a shouting match with you. I do agree that if I had the means to build a giant scale airplane with a 2k xmttr and dual 150 dollar receivers I sure as h--l wouold not use a 6000 in it. But, if a 6000 will fly an electric foamy with 2 motors and all of it's stuff, why won't that same receiver fly a 60 size fuel out of sight also? (which I have been doing for a long time) I have yet to have a 6000 bite me in the butt. The AR6000 has been tested by a couple of reputable guys at over a mile in a very noisy envirnment, it was sitll working at about 1.2 miles, and that was with a spekrumized 6102!

I have both radios, the DX-7 is a much better radio and I recommend it to anyone who can afford to spend about 300 dollars on a computer radio.

Due to a factory error, I had a 6100 receiver crash an airplane that I had worked on and saved for about three months. JR admitted their mistake on that one. Yet nobody has offered to replaced my airplane.

Let's be realistic, I for one would have to save every penny I could for about 3 or 4 years in order to build a giant scale or a turbine, where as, I know of some hobby shop owners who take what they want off the shelf and write it off to business expense or stolen. Some of my fellow flyers have more money than God and for them to buy a 20k turbine is no big deal. Another of my fellow flyers uses packing tape for monocoat repairs and old wore out engines that you or I would put down, but he has a lot of fun.

This hobby is about having fun.

Sincerely, Tom

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

This is not a difference of opinon on the use of AR6000, it is a safety issue. You can have a million reasons to justify the use of a receiver that the manufactor says is not safe in anything larger then park flyers. If you cannot afford to upgrade to the 6100 then because of safety you should't be flying, it's just that simple. If you have to risk hurting yourself or someone else at the field or fives miles away because you can't afford a receiver, leave the plane on the ground until you can.
As far as cheating anybody when I put a plane together, if you don't know me don't guess how I do it. The cost of a plane has nothing to do with how much safety you build into it, it's your mental state and your concern for your fellow man. Only you can answer the question yourself.
I think PoMan has enough information now to make the choice for himself, as for you I wouldn't fly in the flight station next to you. It appears you put safety second. Dennis

tomlee

My Feedback: (1)

Dennis, I could not agree with you more about your safety concerns. I have worked in the construction industry for more years that I care to count and I have never knowlingly hurt anyone or had anyone hurt working around me, and I take exception to being accused of disregarding someone's safety.

I have been using the AR6000 since it was first introduced to the marketplace with no issues. I keep wondering why one would put a 6000 in an electric airplane behind those awsume batteries, electronics and motors(which must generate a lot of noise) and not use the same receiver behind a 60 fuel engine.

I personally have a safety issue with PCM's because most of the turbine crashes I have seen are due to PCM failsafe. That applies to gasoline as well.

We could discuss this all day, We could discuss the size of a park flyer or for that matter, just what is a park flyer. We could even discuss the size of a park, a city block or Yosemite Nat. Park.

Safety is a none negotable issue, and if I thought for one second the use of an AR6000 in one of my 60 size fuel airplanes could even remotely hurt someone, I would dispose of every one of them. Sincerely, Tom

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Tomlee,
Look at it this way. Yes you may have been able to fly without issues for awhile now, and you've been lucky that nothing has happened. But what about that time that something does happen. If something were to happen and the plane went out of control you could easily damage property or even worse injure or kill somebody. There's a very real possibility that your insurance company and the AMA are going to investigate EVERYTHING you were doing. When they find out that you were using equipment that wasn't designed for what you were doing there is a very real possibility that they will deny any claims made. If money is too tight to pay for the proper receiver it's a pretty good guess that you're not going to have a spare hundred thousand or so laying around to pay for damages or medical expenses.

Look at it another way. Being in construction you use a lot of tools. Each tool has a designated purpose and a right way to use it. Yes, you CAN drive a nail with a cresent wrench but that not what it was designed for. You use a wrench to turn a nut and a hammer to drive a nail. You've spent a lot of money to get the right tools to do your job, the same applies here. Spend the money and get the right equipment.

Ken

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

There is a reason that Skeptrum put a limit on the DX 6 and the AR 6000. The reason is range and blind spots. That is the why the new receivers have a second smaller ones attached so there is no blind areas. Making the move to 2.4 has a learning curve to it. Skeptrum fells that the AR 6000 is prone to blind spots from the plane. I hope you never have problems, but if you do it will reflect on all of us as well as the radio systems we use.
I wish you the best of times in the hobby. Dennis

tomlee

My Feedback: (1)

Gerntlemen, This discussion is becoming very interesting.

Rcken, You talk about a time that something could happen and injure someone. In the last year and a half, I have witnessed 2turbine crashes. One merely caused a fire less than 100 ft from a road and a passing club member went over to the crash and put the fire out. The second went into a lockout and crashed into a campground creating a 20 to 30 ft trench scattering parts in the nearby trees missing people by less than 100 ft. The fire was put by a camper who just happened to be washing his vehicle. Both of those crashes were PCM controlled airplanes.

Dennis, If there are blind spots in the DX-6-AR6000 combo, why doesn't JR recall all of those systems as I am convinced the electric set-ups are far more prone to cause blind spots that a mere 60 fuel engine.

Perhaps I failed to mention, I have been using a DX-7 for quite some time as I like it's features and I believe it is a much better radio than the DX-6. There are some things about the DX-6 I am not comfortable with even though we have some guys flying hopped up Styrkers and Fun Jets with them. One of the Stykers will fly along side the jets, it's that fast. Yes, I have seen it happen.

I am taking all you have to say very seriously. sincerely, Tom

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

The whole purpose of the DX and AR 6000 was to fly small park flyers close in, also in the event of a park flyer going in what damage would they cause. I don't know of any reports of park flyers locking out due to loss of signal only cheap speed controls that caused low voltage to the receiver.
As I stated before I seen a 40 size on the AR6000 fly without a problem and then have lock out in a turn and then get picked up again. You never know when to lock out will happen.
If I has a dealer would tell you they are safe to use in larger planes it would place me in a position of being sued with you, and I'm sure the AMA would say "by" as far has their insurance goes too.. Dennis