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  1. #101

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    RE: 2.4 ghz Jammers


    ORIGINAL: KB61

    I'm just wondering?
    Would it be illegal to jam a unlicensed range link or dragon link FPV flyer or operator. Of course causing a crash that created liability to *innocent people would not be without consequences, but it's an interesting question.
    The illegal unlicensed person operating the RC system legally is breaking the FCC law and risking a heavy fine for each time it's done. The person jamming is risking a FCC fine for jamming.
    But... is it jamming if the person bring jammed is not authorized to operate or transmit in the first place? Taking it one step farther, does the illegal non licensed 433/900 mhz operator risk exposing his illegal operating and power levels to sue in court of involve the FCC?
    If both persons are actually involved in a legal action or lawsuit over equipment damage, whom would come out the winner in a court of law or in the FCC eyes?
    I was asked this actual question and had no answer.
    It is an interesting?*
    Many flyers are acting like 2.4g is bullet proof and unlike in the past when we could shoot each other down, are losing some of the sportsmanship attitude and just have attitude.


    The FCC would fine both operators.

    The FBI would pounce on both "domestic terrorists" and try to put them away for life.

    The jury would convict them all because they don't differentiate toy model airplanes from military drones (and remember, it was an obvious "military action" to try to jam one ...)

    Andy
    Andy Kunz - AMA 46063
    Spektrum Development Team

  2. #102
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    RE: 2.4 ghz Jammers

    "hmmm..how they going to make call when their phone cannot get any signal?? it is great fun watching the iggerent masses shake their phones in Wally Mart when I turn it on at the checkout..."

    Who decided you should be judge and jury? What if someone were in need of medical help and your stupid jamming prevented a call to 911 from going through? There are reasons for laws, and ways to change them if you don't agree with them. I personally don't care for people using their cell phone all the time in the wrong place or time, but I don't need some self appointed vigilante interrupting my call when I NEED to make one. I pay for the right to use both my cell phone and my RC gear without someone else deciding they don't like it so they will inforce their own law. Situational ethics is what's wrong with theworld now, everyone deciding in their own mind what rules they want to follow or what they decide is right or wrong for the moment. Any wonder why one kid will murder another for their sneakers? Oh by the way, the word is ignorant which is the word to use to describe what you are doing. There was club in my areathat had a guy jamming their signals after he built a house next to their field and decided he did not like the noise. You can guess what happened when they found out.
    This is the real task before us: to reassert our commitment as a nation to a law higher than our own.

    Ronald Reagan

  3. #103
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    RE: 2.4 ghz Jammers

    It's illegal and constitutes "malicious interference". Anyone who studies for a
    ham radio license learns this. I wonder if the device was smuggled into the country.
    aka MrBreeze
    73\'\'s KK4MSE

  4. #104

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    RE: 2.4 ghz Jammers



    [/quote]

    hmmm..how they going to make call when their phone cannot get any signal?? it is great fun watching the iggerent masses shake their phones in Wally Mart when I turn it on at the checkout...

    [/quote]

    Oh stop being so IGGERENT!!!!

  5. #105
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    RE: 2.4 ghz Jammers


    ORIGINAL: zero244

    That is scary........someone could take a small jamming device and set it up inside there car at a flying field and shoot everyone down.
    Causing thousands in damages in just minutes.
    Maybe RC Cars is a better hobby.
    I think a person who is mentally disturbed enough to actually want to do this to RC modellers could think of a thousand better (cheaper) ways to annoy people..
    ..... frakkin cylons...

  6. #106
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    RE: 2.4 ghz Jammers


    ORIGINAL: Dirtnaper

    Well, my family member who is in corporate security enlightened me to the new art of jamming 2.4 ghz. Its actually becoming popular however I'm not sure how legal. They have installed a new 2.4 ghz and cell phone jammer in thier office. It blocks the entire 2.4 spectrum and all cell phone bands. The range is adjustable but the power seems to be quite a bit more than advertised. I guess they are becoming more popular for corporate security because they had a 3mo wait to get the unit which is about the size of a car stereo amp with a few antennas. It also controls personal cell/txt usage amongst cube rats. Wouldnt mind having one at home....When Dad says your grounded from it he means it! Fore more research just search for 2.4 ghz jammers.

    Anyway for those who fly electric in and near industrial parks, look out. (it stomps out a JR pretty easy at low power way across a huge parking lot)

    Interesting post.. I know that RC Transmitters can wreak havoc with reception on Home wifi devices..I have an Apple TV in the Loungroom and another in the Bedroom and they always work flawlessly.. One night both devices simply refused to stream anything and were considerably slower than a dial up modem when accessing internet content over wifi. I became so engrossed in troubleshooting them that I completely forgot about the two JR 11xs that were turned on the the 2nd bedroom doing a battery cycle / capacity check.. Turned both Radios off and the Apple TVs suddenly came to life.
    ..... frakkin cylons...

  7. #107

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    RE: 2.4 ghz Jammers

    I have an interesting addition to this discussion.
    Last sunday our club was holding it's annual anniversary celabration. All went great until later in the afternoon. Now, everyone knows that we lose planes now and again, whether through pilot error, equipment malfunction, whatever. But this afternoon we lost 5 planes due to loss of control in the space of 2 hours. One was actually flying a BMFA 'B' test, (Me), so everything was more than thouroghly checked by me & 2 examiners before flight.. In fact, one of the planes to go in belonged to one of the examiners. After plane number 4 went in, we heard the sound of a group of youngsters laughing from behind a hedge, directly under where the the plane first lost control. One of our members ran around the field, in time to see 4 youths jumping on mopeds, one of them carrying what he described as a 'black box with a large telescopic antennae' .Whilst he was running off to check, we lost plane number 5(A new 1/4 scale Cub on its second flight.). Now, this was a big family event, with lots of people around the field, & I dont need to tell you guys of the possible dangers of this. Luckily, nobody was injured, but it could have so easily been the case. As for the planes, maybe 5-6 thousand pounds worth of models lost in one afternoon. We have never lost that many in a short space of time due to radio signal loss. These models were not only some very large and expensive ones, but if you take into account the hours and effort that went into building them, irriplaceable.
    Needless to say the police are now involved, but to be honest, even if they are caught with the equipment, they will get off, because there is no way of proving they actually shot us down. Besided, if they are under 16, (possibly) they are below the legal age of responsibilty.
    So, when I read here of people who openly admit to owning and using these devices, abiet in another country, maybe they shoud read this post. If you decide that you have the right to use one of these things for 'fun' maybe pissing off some idiot with a mobile, think on, you may also be inadvertantly destroying somebody's pride and joy, let alone putting others in danger.

  8. #108

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    RE: 2.4 ghz Jammers

    Why the sweet little darlings.....who would think they would do such a thing.
    Some children really do need to be beaten.
    It's to bad the registration plates weren't noted.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtnaper View Post
    Well, my family member who is in corporate security enlightened me to the new art of jamming 2.4 ghz. Its actually becoming popular however I'm not sure how legal. They have installed a new 2.4 ghz and cell phone jammer in thier office. It blocks the entire 2.4 spectrum and all cell phone bands. The range is adjustable but the power seems to be quite a bit more than advertised. I guess they are becoming more popular for corporate security because they had a 3mo wait to get the unit which is about the size of a car stereo amp with a few antennas. It also controls personal cell/txt usage amongst cube rats. Wouldnt mind having one at home....When Dad says your grounded from it he means it! Fore more research just search for 2.4 ghz jammers.

    Anyway for those who fly electric in and near industrial parks, look out. (it stomps out a JR pretty easy at low power way across a huge parking lot)
    Jamming device is not allowed actually in USA except for a few exceptional use in special occasions.

  10. #110
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    one of those cases where, it really is only illegal if ya get caught, and if they are even trying to catch you.
    Bottom Feeder Brother #13
    when they outlaw R/C, only outlaws will have R/C
    13 of 27

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by carrellh View Post
    Cell phone conversations, and texting, are extremely annoying inside a movie theater. That is one of the few locations where I think signal jamming should be legal.
    Tell that to someone just outside the theater trying to call 911!
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  12. #112
    Sport_Pilot's Avatar
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    The reason they were interested in getting one in the first place is that people would go sit in the bathroom for long periods of time and sending text messages from a cell phone.
    They can do that by renovating the restroom with grounded steel mesh in the walls. Expensive for an entire building, but not so bad for restrooms and conference rooms.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  13. #113
    Sport_Pilot's Avatar
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    Needless to say the police are now involved, but to be honest, even if they are caught with the equipment, they will get off, because there is no way of proving they actually shot us down.
    Sue their parents. The burden of proof is much less for civil cases. Bet they are grounded for a while if you do.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  14. #114
    Sport_Pilot's Avatar
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    The idea that it is legal on your on property is from right of use laws and common law pertaining to property rights. Before aircraft, spacecraft, and radio's you had rights to the air above you. But the FAA and FCC have more or less taken much of that right away. Courts have thrown out cases where the signal is contained within the owners property, but there are exceptions and it is not from written law but common law, which is always at the mercy of the court. So you are at risk (though small) even if you hava a Faraday cage.

    Even then you might be subject to civil court if someone died or injured because they could not call 911 from your property. Especially if there were no warning that cell phone transmissions were blocked.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  15. #115

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    well if the jammer is solely on their property and does not extend any further i do not have a problem with it.
    It's not up to you. ANY jamming is illegal.

    I tried sitting my 2.4 system on the top of my microwave with the door open and the interlock shorted out.
    Of course, you were nowhere nearby during this experiment, right?

    Weather radar on aircraft operates in the microwave band but is much more powerful than home microwave ovens. We've always been cautioned to turn it off before taxiing into the ramp area, as it could be bad for our people working the ramp.

    I recall reading a couple articles years ago about jammers produced in Canada being available to defeat police radar. The device was basically the transmitter from a microwave oven and was quite effective. Unfortunately it was 'dirty' (spurious radiation), harmful at close range, and the makers did not properly warn the buyers. It was obviously illegal and their sale here was quickly stopped.

    I have purchased one of these devices to check if it will really jam the RC 2.4Ghz systems
    Pics please!

    We had a ham operator near our flying site years ago who ran 'power' (illegal transmitter power boost) who we reasoned was shooting us down out of spite. We called the FCC, they did an investigation and he lost his license and I believe was fined. The fed is very serious about this.
    I might not be very good, but I am fun to watch!

  16. #116

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    RF from a microwave could be a jammer for a short distance but it is not a danger to you if you dont crawl inside of it.
    Years ago I used to be a field engineer for the RADAR division of General Electric Co. One of our products was the AN/FPS-6.
    It was a height finder with a power out of 5MW peak power,1KW average. We used to like to stand in front of the antenna and watch a florescent bulb light up while held in our hands as the beam passed over us. This was before safety people invaded the industry.
    I am 86 now and still kicking. I had a skin cancer recently but that was likly caused by exposure to the sun. The radiation from the sun is quite a bit more dangerous than RF

  17. #117

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    Long ago, and not so far away - - -
    The military conducts testing of airborne electronics systems, even today. A pilot mistakenly flipped the wrong switch.
    The result? The microwave links over a good sized area no longer worked, at least until the error was corrected, and
    the links reset.

    Another pilot some years later flipped the same switch while flying in a European host country.
    The result was a minor international incident. Seems that the Queen's Helipad ILS system was unusable until the switch was
    put back in the normal position.

    Deliberately Jamming 2.4Ghz or any frequency that is used legally is a big no-no, (Unless you happen to be the government.)

  18. #118

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    I've always liked the old internet story (fake) of a police radar locking up and being subsequently jammed and targeted for Air to Ground missile attack by a military jet. Various versions from England, the US, RAF Tornados, USMC F/A18's etc.... funny read none the less.

  19. #119

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    A transmitter is not a "communications device", unless some sort of "communication" takes place that involves sending and receiving something. (Data, voice, control signals, etc.)

  20. #120

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    Someone commented on a "high power" Radar. Long range radar generally has a low duty cycle or pulse rate. As a result the energy over time is much less than any sort of cw or target acquisition radar.
    Decades ago, I worked with many people that had been exposed to radar RF energy while in the military. The rate of cataracts among them was much higher than normal.
    It wasn't until the late 70s and 80s that the AF finally got around to installing RF monitors in shops that worked on higher power microwave equipment.

  21. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckk2 View Post
    Someone commented on a "high power" Radar. Long range radar generally has a low duty cycle or pulse rate. As a result the energy over time is much less than any sort of cw or target acquisition radar.
    Decades ago, I worked with many people that had been exposed to radar RF energy while in the military. The rate of cataracts among them was much higher than normal.
    It wasn't until the late 70s and 80s that the AF finally got around to installing RF monitors in shops that worked on higher power microwave equipment.
    Yes please note that I said the 5KW peak power resulted in 1 kw average power. Still a very high microwave concentration.
    Also I worked on the EMP simulated system at Kirtland AFB in NM.
    At that facility a bank of capacitors were charged in parallel and discharged in series. The result was an EMP about 1/10 of a nuke shot. The data was then extrapolated to predict what the result would be from a nuke.
    This facility is a large wooden truss put together with plastic bolts. It is large enough to hold a B52 without straining. The truss is surrounded with a maze of antenna wires to transmit the pulse.
    The capacitors were charged and produced a pulse every 90 sec.
    I worked in that environment 8 hours a day for three months testing the circuits in a B52.
    One of the technicians in that test later developed leukemia and sued the company. As a result of the class action suit I was awarded a free physical every year for 5 years.
    They never found anything unusual..
    We had to cut each wire, install a probe, take the measurement and re-splice the wire.
    The caption in charge of the B52 told us that when the test was over all of us were going to draw straws and the one that gets the short straw would ride with the airplane back to Rome AFB.
    AS a result we were very careful with our work

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckk2 View Post
    A transmitter is not a "communications device", unless some sort of "communication" takes place that involves sending and receiving something. (Data, voice, control signals, etc.)
    Since our transmitters are transmitting data, then I guess it is a "communication device"?
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckk2 View Post
    A transmitter is not a "communications device", unless some sort of "communication" takes place that involves sending and receiving something. (Data, voice, control signals, etc.)
    Even if a RF transmitter is transmitting a continuous wave the FCC fully regulates it (in the US).

  24. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkidMan View Post
    Even if a RF transmitter is transmitting a continuous wave the FCC fully regulates it (in the US).
    There are all sorts of transmitters. If the transmitter radiates in the RF spectrum, it's generally "regulated" by the FCC. It's also true that
    certain low power transmitters have minimal use restrictions. "Flea Power" transmitters generally don't cause problems, unless they are used in a way that is intended to create trouble.

    Licensed transmitters are also regulated. Unlicensed transmitters fall under various regulations.

    .What makes things interesting to me - - -
    I spent a large part of my career dealing with unlicensed and unregulated (by the FCC) high power transmitters (Jammers) and transponders
    used by the government and military in hostile environments.
    Last edited by chuckk2; 09-24-2013 at 09:54 AM.

  25. #125

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    A transmitter is not a "communications device", unless some sort of "communication" takes place that involves sending and receiving something. (Data, voice, control signals, etc.)
    ...which is precisely what an RC system does. The transmitter sends data to the receiver. It doesn't have to be someone's voice to be communication.


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