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12FG manual RANT

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Old 04-13-2010, 04:04 PM
  #1  
mtntopgeo
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Default 12FG manual RANT

Got into this hobby just a few short years ago. No club, mentor, or instructor; just started buying "stuff" & tried to make it all come together. Made a few hundred mistakes, but one area that I lucked out on was the transmitter. Got a Futaba 6XAS. Never had a transmitter in my hands before, never even saw one. Once the (first) model was completed, I sat down with the transmitter, & it's manual, and within 25 min, or so, had the show ready for flight (complete with expo, dual rates, & flaperons). The transmitter has been a jewel, but just recently (as the number of planes in my hangar grew) decided to get a transmitter with more model memory. Considering the performance of the 6XAS, I wanted to stay with the Futaba brand name. Purchased the 12FG a few days ago. .......
What planet did the author of this (12FG) manual come from. ??? Took me two evenings just to get a model set up for basic 4 channel. Still trying to add "Flaperons". Can't even find the term in this manual. At the rate that I proceeding, I might be operating this thing mid-way in the 2011 season. I was able to purchase this transmitter at a very good discounted price, because the original owner became so frustrated with the manual. If I could talk "face -to-face" with "Mr. Futaba" I'd ask him to find the guy that worked on the 6XAS manual, & have him/her put out a revised manual for the 12FG. While doing a search here, I've got to agree with another member... "a smart transmitter with a very stupid manual". Considering getting another 6xas just get more model memory.
................................ George K.
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Old 04-13-2010, 05:11 PM
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c550
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

The manual is worthless. Futaba does have a useful website with faq's that can walk you through things, but setting up a new model is not easy with this radio.
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Old 04-13-2010, 06:54 PM
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

The manuals for most Futaba radios, especially the higher end ones, certainly could be better.

Take a look here:

http://www.futaba-rc.com/faq/faq-12fg.html

And this one in particular:

http://www.futaba-rc.com/faq/faq-12fg-q959.html

This is the main FAQ page:

http://www.futaba-rc.com/faq/index.html

Hope that helps.
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:45 PM
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Howard
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

I notice that you live in Montana I spent five years in Colstrip, Montana beginning in 1980 and there were exactly two of us that flew RC. Everything I used came from Tower and they did a great job keeping me supplied. I do understand your frustration with the Futaba 12FG manual. For all practical purposes the 12FG, 12FZ and the 14MZ all program the same way with some minor variations. All three manuals appear to be translations of an original manual not written in English. They all include sentences with words that came from a foreign language thesaurus that mean nothing or are confusing or just plain gobbledeegook. Like "Tasting the ice cream will be greatly felt if by moving the trim when slowing the rate" I have the 14MZ and I have read all three of the manuals several times and find that there are small differences on the same material and the added difference helps if you keep digging. Reading the faq's on the Futaba website really helps and reading the many posts on RCU really is a great boost. The payoff is that when you finally get a good grasp of what these radios can do you will be elated. You have our empathy and many of us have suffered through the same frustration. I will say this if you want to feel good about these manuals then download the owners manual for the Futaba GY 401 gyro, read it thoroghly and then see if there is any chance in the world you can make the thing work. You have to know how it works to understand the manual it is the winner of the worst manual Futaba ever published. Good luck, have fun and happy flying.

Howard
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:31 PM
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mediclavina
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

If you can get a PDF copy of the manual, it may help you better than the *hard copy*. With a PDF, you could find ALL instances of the word "flaperon" and it's going to show you every pages and lines on the manual where the word appears.
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Old 04-14-2010, 08:12 AM
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

I agree with you, the manual and the words employed are well... out of this world. By the way, flaperons are "camber" in these radios.
Send me a PM with your e-mail address and I will send you some documentation I wrote about the use of the 12FG.
Do not despair, once you get the hang of the programming it is a great radio.Its problems are too many options. You can probably program the same function(s) 3 different ways.
I made 4 boiler plate planes definitions and then I use them for any new plane. That way I use always the same switches for the same functions.
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:59 AM
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Howard
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

I also should have mentioned that if you want to see a world class radio manual take a look at the Airtronics SD-10G manual you can find it on the Hobby People website.

Howard
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Old 04-14-2010, 01:48 PM
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mtntopgeo
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

Thanks for the replys, guys. It's helped my confidence some, seeing that others have fought the same problem(s), & have made it through. Between the "camber" tip, & the Futaba FAQ sites I'm making a little more progress. .......................... Howard, Yeah, adds to the challenge some, when you live in the middle of nowhere, & you're trying to learn 'bout this stuff, & buy supplies. ..................
beto9PM sent. ....................... Thanks again.............. George K.
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Old 04-14-2010, 02:56 PM
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RogerParrett
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

Yes... the manual is rather...."terse"... that said, I emailed a fellow 12FG'er several days ago that asked about flaperons. Here's my reply:

> >> I know exactly what to do. I do the same thing with my Pulse XT... But I'm
> >> at work right now, so I'll just give you the generalities.
> >>
> >> Look on page 89 of the 12FG manual. (I have a PDF at work...)
> >>
> >> Set the ACT/INH to "ACT", leave everything else the same. Scroll to
> >> "Aileron" in the [Curve and Rate] section. Select it.
> >>
> >> Now on the SECOND page of the Camber(Ail) screen (it's shown on page 89,
> >> but probably with not as many ailerons), set the Rates to +50 for both rates
> >> / both ailerons.
> >>
> >> That's it.
> >>
> >> Now, go the FUNCTION screen (page 56) and scroll down to see where the
> >> Camber control is connected (probably RS or LS). Just note it. That is the
> >> control you'll use to move both ailerons down for flaps.
> >>
> >> Now, this is what **I** do... I replace the RS/LS slider with a ON/OFF
> >> switch, and then on page 89 where you see the Speed In/Out, I set them to
> >> about 20. Then when I hit the switch, the "flaps" ***slowly*** move to
> >> position. WAY cool...lol. Good way to show off, too, since while most TXs
> >> allow flaps on a slider, most don't allow auto-slow to full flap position. : )

I've logged a LOT of hours on the system, and dare say that I'm pretty comfortable with it's operation. Coming from a 9CAPS (and prior to that, a Super 7), it was a bit of a shock. But this REALLY is a different class of radio. Wait until you get into "Virtual Channels". Oh, and the 12FG is capable of executing an entire sequence of manuvers with a single command - except you won't find that it the manual - and I doubt if any of the folks at a competition will know what to look for (because it's against the rules). But it IS pretty nice to be able to flip one switch and see the ailerons, elevator, and rudder move in a particular sequence to execute a decent 3 second roll.

Best... Roger Parrett
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Old 04-14-2010, 03:05 PM
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RogerParrett
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

Oh, and one more tip... When the manual refers to RATE A and RATE B in some of the programming screens, they are NOT talking about dual rates.
For instance, when programming the rudder, RATE A is the percent movements when the stick moves from the LEFT>Center, and
RATE B is the percent movements when the stick moves Center>RIGHT.

Futaba probably should have referred to them as LEFT/UP and RIGHT/DOWN, and not use terminology that would suggest multiple rates in a system that DOES support multiple rates.

That would take someone HOURS to figure out.... (ask me how I know...).

Best... Roger
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Old 04-14-2010, 05:55 PM
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

Programming the 12FG is like learning how to play a musical instrument. Once you find the notes and chords the possibilities are unlimited. Learning curve is about a year.
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Old 04-15-2010, 01:39 PM
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mtntopgeo
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

Roger, JEEEEEEEEEZ, it would hsve only taken me two or three lifetimes to come up with that info. Thanks loads.!!!


Guerra, About a "hunnert" years ago, I took piano lessons for six or seven years. Think that I made it up to the 2nd or 3rd year lesson book. Teacher told my folks; "If this kid lives to be a hundred, he still won't be able to play the piano.". .... Now you know just how far out in left field I'm at. .................. George K.
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Old 04-15-2010, 02:33 PM
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RogerParrett
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

My pleasure... you're welcome.

A good thing to remember is that the 12FG came after the 12Z and 14MZ, and the programming features / functions - I would say - are about 95% the same based on my analysis of the manuals. Given the fact that the Z and MZ are Pro-class systems developed specifically for (and by) the top pilots in Japan, much of the programming is made to handle very specific situations that one would encounter only in world-class competitions. Situations that - frankly - I'll never see, but I have to trudge through the programming nontheless just to set up run-of-the-mill stuff.

Unfortunately, everything is just "laid out there" with no novice/experienced/expert modes like you might see in computer programs. And if you think the 12FG is complicated in "Airplane" mode, set a model to a 4-AIL / 4 FLAP **GLIDER** and see what comes up... lol.

Finally, learn to love the Servo Monitor. Play with some setting, and go back to the monitor and see what moves when. And don't give up...lol... I've not seen a situation that the 12FG could not handle. And I've tinkered with this thing for over a year.

Best... Roger Parrett (Dayton/OH)


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Old 04-15-2010, 03:12 PM
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

Another tip is to always keep a back up of whatever your are messing with. Just like on a computer. That way if you mess something up you can always get back to where you were.
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Old 04-16-2010, 06:31 AM
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

I'd pay good money for a decent 12FG (12MZ/14MZ) manual/book - Maybe somebody out there with the knowlege and the will may read this message!!

Best Regards,
=Adrian=
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Old 06-08-2010, 08:05 PM
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

How do I use 'conditions'? I am almost there with my 35% setup. I am sure there are a ton of things to learn. Any help is appreciated.
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Old 06-08-2010, 09:34 PM
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT

This is just my opinion, but it appears to me that the the futaba manuals are written by software enginers and not modelers ?

                     john
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:53 PM
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Default RE: 12FG manual RANT


ORIGINAL: john josey

This is just my opinion, but it appears to me that the the futaba manuals are written by software enginers and not modelers ?

john

Worse. They are written by Japanese software engineers and then translated into English. Always been one of the major issues, but fortunately there is lots of help and after a very short time 99% of what you need to do turns out to be fairly easy to accomplish.
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