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New information on JR's 11x

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Old 05-05-2010, 02:35 PM
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duworm
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Default New information on JR's 11x

The New JR 11X System with Spektrum 2.4Hz DSM Technology.

I recently received an advance copy of the manual for the new 11x and spent several hours looking it over. It has some very cool new features when compared to the 9303. I fly mostly Thermal Duration, so my comparison will only involve the Sailplane programming.

The comparison is based upon the manuals so I won’t be able to dive into deeper detail until I get my hands on a transmitter. Hopefully, within a month or so.

This will only be a comparison between the 9303 and the 11x. I won’t be discussing the merits of why JR chose a particular software solution or comparing JR’s software to other brands. Nor will I be discussing the merits of one brands 2.4 system over another; frankly, I am not that smart. Thank you for not using this thread to start or respond to any flame war.

I will try to respond to software questions concerning the 11x once a week or so. But, until I get my hands on a working transmitter and have a chance to program several models, my answers will be brief. I am planning to write a guide to programming the 11x similar to the one I did for the 9303. I have a busy spring and summer schedule because of the upcoming F3J Worlds in France, so a full version may not be available until late summer or early fall.

Just remember, flexibility breeds complexity and the 11x contains much of the flexibility requested by the RC community. As an example, each of the five flight modes in the 9303 were given a fixed name. If you are fine with the default names, perfect. If not, the 11x allows you to rename each of the flight modes. The ability to change the flight mode names increases flexibility, but adds another step to the programming process increasing complexity.

As many of you know, I am a huge fan of JR’s 9303. It has its shortcomings, but not many. Programming was not intuitive, but once you figured it out, it was manageable. Some complain that the 9303 switches were not assignable. That never bothered me. I spend a lot of time programming and trimming other club member’s planes. If each radio has a completely different assignment of switches, helping is gonna take more time. For me, functionability is all that matters. This discussion assumes you have a working knowledge of the 9303. The new manual, in an effort to be short and direct, can be confusing. The manual also assumes (and rightly so) that you are familiar with some form of transmitter programming and understand the basic nomenclature of an aircraft and its flight control surfaces. The manual does not give you a cookbook approach to programming your aircraft. (I don’t know of any manufacture that does) There are just too many variables.

Keep in mind, there are 2 ways to use the 9303 and the 11x when it comes to programming. For those of you that have not used a 9303, this is important. The first programming method is unchanged from what we used prior to computer radios. Dual rates had a separate switch for elevator, rudder and ailerons. Other functions could be turned ON or OFF using a switch. Older radios used 4 switches. Remembering what switch did what and its current setting while flying was difficult. New radios have 8 switches! Now it is impossible to remember which switch does what or remember how it is set while flying. On top of that, you have to look down to find the right switch. You can still use the 11x in this manner, but what a waste of a really cool radio.

The second method is to use Flight Modes. By flipping a single switch you can modify a significant number of functions. An example would be transitioning from cruise mode to speed mode. A single switch could do the following; reduce aileron to rudder mix, reduce elevator sensitivity, reduce aileron sensitivity, reflex the ailerons and flaps, add a couple of clicks of down trim and so on. Just imagine how many switches you have to flip using the old method.

Now that you see the difference between controlling each dual rate function with a separate switch, (and the memory problems associate with that method) and flight modes controlling a multitude of functions with a single switch, you must decide which of the two methods you want to use. You cannot use them both. (to some degree you can, but it is a disaster waiting to happen.) Choose one or the other. The 11x (like the 9303) allows you to use either method. Short version, if you are not interested in flight modes, you can get all you need with a lesser radio.

The 11x’s new features listed below assume that you are using flight modes. After all, the reason you are thinking about buying this radio is because of the computer within.
I am mentioning this because of the screen shots that appear in the 11x manual. Some of the screen shots were taken when using the first system mentioned above and some of the screen shots are for programming flight modes. Rarely, does the manual show both screen shots for a particular function. For the individual new to programming one method or the other, it can be confusing.

New to the 11x, you will often see 1/2 or 1/3 in the upper right hand corner of a screen shot. This indicates that you are looking at page one of a multiple page programming section. This intelligent groping will make a big difference. The manual only shows a restricted selection of the available screen shots which makes it difficult to comment directly on usability.
Remember, flexibility breeds complexity. There is simply no way to avoid this catch-22 dilemma. The 11x, by providing screens with more intuitive names, screens with more usable information or intelligent grouping of screens, makes an effort at providing more flexibility and reducing complexity at the same time. From what I could see, this radio represents a huge step in the right direction.

Here are some of the new features:
1. Number of channels went from 9 on the 9303 to 11 on the 11x.
2. The gimbals on the 11x contain dual ball bearings.
3. The screen is backlit.
4. The 11x battery contains a heat detector. If it senses excessive heat, it shuts off the charger and shows an error on the charger LED. I don’t know if this system will work with non JR chargers.
5. Binding, SmartSafe, Preset Failsafe, range testing, Model Match and Instant Quick Connect are unchanged from the 9303.
6. The 11x has 8 switches, 7 of them are three position. It appears that all 8 switches are program selectable. I don’t know if functions are limited to certain switches but it appears there is very little restriction on choice. Remember, once you assign a function to a switch, you cannot use that switch for a second function. As you assign a switch to a particular function, a Servo Monitor function automatically renames the channel according to the assignments. For those of you new to programming, you need to figure out ahead of time, what function are going to be assigned to a particular switch.
7. The manual mentions momentary switches, but I believe this is available for the two trim switches up high in the center of the radio. I still need the radio to confirm, sorry handlaunch guys.
8. The number of timers increased from 2 to 3. All are adjustable with alarms, count up or down and multiple alarms for each timer.
9. New Quick Edit mode allows quick editing of sub-trims, travel adjust, D/R and Expo but I am not sure how this is going to work yet.
10. The function list will include a feature to turn RF on or off.
11. A new feature called MY LIST. This allows you to group functions from the System and Function list into MY LIST. This appears to allow you to place favorite function in an easy to find list or to eliminate functions you never use. Think of it this way, by eliminating function you never use, you are reducing flexibility but this results in a reduction of complexity. The 9303 contains many more function than we actually use. The 11x is the same. It would be cool to have a programming screen that only contains the functions you are using for your plane. Quicker and easier to navigate and no more, “I wonder what this does?”
12. The System List can be entered without having to hold down the enter button while turning the radio on. The system list contains new functions. They are copy/erase, flight mode naming, warning, tx settings, all servo hold, and stick alerts.
13. The Function List contains many new features. Some of them are explained below.
14. Like the 9303, 30 models can be saved in the base memory of the 11x. The 11x also allows you to store additional models on a SD card and copy or save to or from the SD card. This should allow easy transfer to your computer of any particular model program. In addition, the number of characters for naming each model has been increased from 8 to 16.
15. As with the 9303, there are 5 flight modes. The 11x allows you to rename the flight modes with a 6 character name of your choice. Monitor automatically renames the flight modes throughout the different radio setup screens.
16. You can adjust the voltage level that sets off the low battery alarm.
17. You can select a sound mode and volume for the edit button, trim, lever (switch) and opening volume. You can also set alarms for various purposes and an alarm to sound when a stick passes a certain point.
18. Dual rate and expo setting were limited to three in the 9303 which has been expanded to four in the 11x.
19. Launch/Cruise/Land flight modes can be assigned to any of the 8 switches. Thermal and reflex flight modes can be assigned to any of 6 switches.
20. For you motor heads, it appears that motor functions can be assigned to any of three output channels on the receiver (I think), and assigned to any of several switches, levers or throttle stick. In addition, the 11x allow you to use the throttle stick for dual purposes. A possible example is that the throttle controls the motor in launch mode and in all other modes acts as a flap stick. An interesting function allows you to require that multiple switches must be set to the ON position before you can assess the motor function. Throttle hold and trim are also included.
21. The new wing type includes a six-servo wing with tip-ailerons. In addition to the dual flap function in the 9303, the 11x includes functions for dual elevator, dual rudder and dual spoilers. Interesting. Dual spoilers can be setup to help roll the aircraft. Very cool. (you could do this 9303, but it was difficult). If you have two servos driving an elevator or a very long control surface sometimes found on large scale plane, a feature called ServoSync provides a simple way to make sure both servos act the same way.
22. Servo Balance is also available if the servo linkage geometry for two servos driving a single control surface are not identical. Similar to the multipoint mixing discussed below, just a dedicated screen for each of the activated dual flight surfaces. For something as complicated as this, the screen shot makes it look fairly simple.
23. Flaperon mix includes some new possibilities. New to the 11x is the aileron to tip-aileron mix. The scale guys are gonna love this. There might be a rash of new six servo TD planes because of this mix.
24. In addition to the switches, the sticks can also become switches. When a stick moves past a certain point it can turn on/off mixes, differential rates, timers and a bunch of others. I don’t know if this “stick switch” can activate a flight mode.
25. The 11x sports a new limit adjustment for servos. This function allows the adjustment of maximum travel possible for each channel in both directions. This prevents any channel from being over driven when features like travel adjust, dual rates and programming rates may combine to over drive a servo past a set point.
26. Here is a new one, Servo Speed. The 11x allows you to change servo speed. Servo speed can change from .176 seconds for 60 degrees of rotation to 15 seconds for 60 degrees of rotation.
27. The amount of camber on the side slide can be set differently for each of the five flight modes. The 9303 used a complicated method of setting flap movement and offset and then mixing aileron with a different screen with different screen names. And, the one or two word description of the screen was not intuitive. The 9303 programming for side slide camber was a difficult process and easy to forgot. The 11x appears to have simplified this dramatically. From the instructions, a single screen sets camber or reflex to a side slider, then use flaperon mix to match the ailerons. Much simpler.
28. Camber presets appear very similar to the 9303 with the addition of tip ailerons and several other features that will require some hands-on experimenting.
29. Butterfly is gone. It has been replaced with “Landing Mode. Butterfly mixing caused confusion that went along with setting landing flap and elevator compensation. It was replaced with a series of screens that can mix spoilers, flaps, flaperons, tip ailerons and elevator to the flap stick. The 9303 could also do this, but unlike the 9303, the 11x has reorganized these functions so they can accessed from a single location in the radio. I can report more later when I I get to play with a radio.
30. Aileron differential can be different for each flight mode like the 9303. Now you can add additional differential settings. You can set a “break” position for the flap stick that changes the differential when the stick passes a certain point. Sounds like reverse differential is available in each of the flight modes that can be turned on and off simply by moving the flap stick. You could do this in the 9303 by using a non-dedicated mix, but it affected all flight modes the same. And it was difficult to do. The 11x appears to simplify this issue and provide a different setting for each flight mode.
31. Snap-Flaps. This has always been available in the 9303 but you had to perform some complicated programming using one of the variable point mixes. But, with only one multi point mix available (the other was used for landing elevator compensation), the same camber and break point was the same in all flight modes. In the 11x, a single screen allows you to set the camber (or reflex) for each flight mode, the point in which the elevator stick activates snap flaps (break point) and the amount of camber (or reflex). The brake point can be separately set for each flight mode. The “break point” provides a point in the stick movement for the snap flap to begin. In other words, you can set no trailing edge change for small elevator changes, but once the elevator passes a certain point, camber or reflex is mixed in. The slope racer crowd will love this function. Also, the TD guys have been looking for this feature for some time.
32. Rudder to spoiler mixing was available in the 9303, you just had to get a little creative. You could either plug the separate spoilers into the aileron channels and mix aileron to rudder or let rudder drive the ailerons. Both worked, just kinda messy. The 11x provides its own mix for this situation. I cannot tell from the manual if the mix is activated by moving the rudder or the aileron stick but it is easily moved to the aileron stick using the Master/Slave mix function. Will this require a change to the RES rules? Several scale models will also use this function.
33. The non-dedicated mixes in the 9303 are available in the 11x. With the new mix specific features found in the 11x, a 6 servo TD setup does not appear to need any of these non-dedicated mixes. The new mulitpoint mixes in the 11x that appear to have been expanded to provide additional flexibility. In the 9303, the points along the bottom of the screen (horizontal) were fixed. You could only change the value (vertical) at each point. In the 11x, it appears that up to 7 points along the horizontal can be set at any point along the line.
34. Gyro’s? You bet. The 11x allows in flight selection of up to 3 gyro settings for up to two separate gyros, or up to three settings assigned to flight modes. You can assign and select gyro settings by switch or flight modes.
35. There is a stick position switch. The flap stick, rudder, elevator or aileron can activate a mix through a stick position switch. Various mixes can be changed by moving the stick past a certain point. Something similar was available in the 9303. I cannot determine from the manual if the stick position can turn on a flight mode. This would be useful on approach if all you had to do activate landing mode was to pull the flap stick down part way. This one will take some time to figure out.
36. You might be looking for confirmation of programming found in the 9303. If you don’t see something here, it means that what was available in the 9303 is also available on the 11x.
37. I need to spend some time with the radio to determine if several functions I was hoping for are included. I don’t know if there is a momentary switch on the left side. I still need to figure out if floating elevator trim is available. Floating trim is a fancy way of linking all the flight mode elevator trims to the cruise elevator trim setting. An example would be setting Cruise mode as a base with thermal at plus two clicks of up trim and speed with three clicks of down trim. Elevator trim changes through the day for temperature and wind speed changes. As I change elevator trim in cruise mode, the other flight modes would also move the same amount.

So far, these new and expanded features make this radio very attractive. In addition, it just looks cool. Finally, although features have been expanded and new ones added, (new complexity) the programming has been simplified.

Until I get my hands on a radio, I don’t have all the screen shots. It is the screen shots that will actually tell me how much the programming has been expanded or changed. Given the possible number of screen shots, I am really looking forward to playing with this radio.

Please remember, this information is coming directly from what I read in the manual. Until I get to play with a radio and see all the additional screen shots, I really don’t know the radios full potential. There were some particular issues I was hoping to see changed, but I cannot tell if those issues were addressed until a later date.

If you are looking for a particular piece of programming, please ask me by posting it here. I am sure that someone else will have the same question. Just be very specific. Something similar to, when I move the stick(which stick) or a particular switch (which switch), can I get a particular control surface (which control surface) to move in a direction (which direction)? A question similar to “can I trim butterfly” does not provide enough information to solicit an answer.

Sherman Knight
Team JR
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:46 PM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

Can I mix in enough expotrim to compensate for the lack of switch asignments to allow for more flexibility?
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:22 PM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

I just got my 11X and it does have a bunch of nifty features! I am still getting acquainted with some of the terms (like HPit is the function you assign to Aux3 for example if you want the right slider to control say the throttle on your turbine heli). Not quite hover pitch; they should have just called it "RSlid" or something like the 14MZ.
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Old 07-01-2010, 07:47 AM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

HPit is a way to alter the top point on the pitch curve with a slider.
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Old 07-01-2010, 11:02 AM
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mkranitz
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

It is if you connect it to the collective channel! I am trying to have the slider just control throttle (which I do on my 9303). My complaint is that pilots don't always use it for pitch and pilots of electric and turbine helis wouldn't use the collective stick for throttle so why name it HPIT? Once reassigned, however, I think it behaves the way I need it to on the 11X, I just have to verify that! [X(]
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Old 07-03-2010, 05:39 AM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

I am new to the JR 11x last week.I have some question about the function.What is the function of the"Limit ADjust".As my reading the manual,it seems to be similar to the "Travel
ADjust",why add this function?Second,what is the function of two "vertical gray bars " by the side of trim of throttle & elevator in the normal screen? I can't find any detail about it in the manual.Who could explain it for me?Thanks a lot.
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:57 PM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

Travel adjust adjusts how far your surfaces move. But lets say you have a mix from another channel, and you have channel 1 maxed out, you move channel 2 and that throws a mix to channel 1, even though its at the limit of its travel adjust it will over ride it or try to and bind or stall the servo.

Limit adjust is a hard stop, it won't let a mix over drive a limit adjust stop when it can over ride a travel adjust stop.

Those other bars are channel position indicators for those rockers that are on either side of the RF light. They don't do anything by default you have to assign them to something but if you hit the rocker up or down you will see the pipper on those bars follow it.
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Old 07-06-2010, 02:46 AM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

Thanks a lot! You give me great help.
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Old 07-06-2010, 07:10 AM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

Thank you for the overview of the new 11x. I am a long time JR user (X-388s, 3810 PCM9 PCM9XII/9303) and have a couple of questions:

1) On my old JR X-388S and 3810 some of the free mixers had a "trim include" feature, i.e., trim changes on the master channel was transferred to the slave channel in proportion to the mixing ratio. I have missed this feauture on the PCM9XII (if it is available I haven't found that function). Is it available on the 11x?

2) Are there any logical switches or mixing-with-delay possibilities? What I have in mind is a typical scale landing gear arrangement such as the one used on the P51 Mustang, i.e., door opens, legs are extended and then the door closes. As a scale modeler I would love if this kind of set-up could be done in the Tx instead of having to use additional circuitry in the aircraft.

3) For FPV (first person view) the pilot's head movements are often transferred to the camera(s) in the aircraft by means of the Tx trainer socket. Is it possible to assign the trainer output to AUX channles instead of the four primary functions (rudder, elevator, ailerons and throttle)?

4) Any chance of making a pdf version of the manual available to us? (Edit: I found a link to the manual here: [link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo/Files/JRP1100.pdf]JRP1100.pdf[/link])
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:31 PM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

Why do they sell a 11 channel radio with a 9 channel rx
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:42 PM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x


ORIGINAL: bcovish

Why do they sell a 11 channel radio with a 9 channel rx
So you will buy the 12ch RX too.[:@]
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:49 PM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

So you can use them in mixes into other channels for various things.

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Old 07-08-2010, 10:15 AM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x


ORIGINAL: bcovish

Why do they sell a 11 channel radio with a 9 channel rx
To keep the end price down, and most people dont need a 12 channel receiver.
(just guesses)
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:04 PM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

Hi all,

I am having a problem with a mix on my new 11X (just came today). I am trying to set it up on my jet. I had a 9303 with 2.4 module before. The airplane has a Air Power EV5U sequencer/brake unit with the brakes on Aux3. When I try to set up an elevator to Aux3 mix for the brakes, the EV5U brakes don't come on. For the life of me I can't figure out what the problem is. The brakes work fine if I put them on a slider but I would much rather have them mixed to down elevator.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Jim
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:54 AM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

I got it. You need to use "Offset" in order for the valve to work properly.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:20 AM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

I'm curious why not a slider? Too much to think about during landing?

We have a fellow who flys on our relatively short runway and down elevator to activate the brakes always seems to make the back end float up and the plane gets goofy on the ground till the elevator becomes ineffective.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:36 AM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

Hi Barracuda,

The sliders on the 11X are in a weird position. With the 9303 I had it on the slider but on the 11X it is an awkward position. On a jet you usually don't use the brakes until you are well under flying speed anyway. At high speeds with the thin tires they aren't much use anyway. My Reaction kit rolls out in under 100 feet and my Dragon rolls out in under 200 feet anyway. At least when making a good landing .

Not to impune the 11X. It is the most perfect radio I have ever owned. I went from an 8303 to a DX7 to a 9303 with 2.4 module and now to the 11X. The 11X has the most desirable features I could imagine. I can't wait to try it at the field this weekend!

Jim
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:58 AM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

Interesting. Must be your hands or what you're used to. I used the sliders on my x9303 for flaps and that was ok but I find the sliders on the 11 very natural.

Off topic, I have been through your area on the way to Crystal Cave, I love upstate PA, I grew up in Fort Washington.
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:07 AM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

I live in Macungie, PA. It is between Allentown and Reading. I fly at Farview RC Club in Hamburg which is close to Reading. www.farviewflyers.net.

You probably don't remember but you gave me allot of help about 6 years ago when I started with the helis. Both on RCU and RR.

If you find yourself up this way again you have to stop and fly at Farview. Just let me know. We have a very heli friendly club as well as jets, IMAC, foamies, etc. Even rockets. If it flys we love it!

Jim
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:24 AM
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

Racer, I too find the sliders onvthe 11x awkward. I use one slider for turbine throttle on my heli and on my jet I use one for brakes and it is a stretch for me to slide it while working the other controls.
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Old 08-04-2010, 06:46 AM
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racer8297
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

mkranitz,

Glad it's not just me! Still love this radio though. It's like 3 steps up from my 9303!

Jim
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:11 AM
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BarracudaHockey
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

Didn't you have a Raptor?

Hope to take you up on that offer sometime.
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:18 AM
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racer8297
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

Barracuda,

Yup, a Raptor 30 v2 and a Titan. Now I'm hooked on the freakin turbines. It's an addiction. I sold my Raptors to fund my last jet model. I have about 25 flights on the new jet and now I am planning for my next jet.

But I'll tell you, the 11X sure makes for easier programming and increased saftey with the stick/switch warnings and the timers.

Jim
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Old 08-07-2010, 12:05 AM
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mkranitz
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

So here's one that may be so simple that the 11X will laugh at me for asking:

In my jet, I'm using the AR9200 receiver which provides two ports for aileron and rudder (each). I am guessing that I would NOT use the radio's dual control function for these since the receiver views the two servos as a single servo?

If that is the case, I'm wondering if I'm sacrificing individual servo trim controls that would come if I used a master/slave setup in the dual control settings (eg. Aileron and Aux2)?
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Old 08-07-2010, 06:17 AM
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racer8297
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Default RE: New information on JR's 11x

mkranitz,

Not sure I understand the question. I use 2 channels for my ailerons. That way I can utilize crow when flaps are deployed and I can individually adjust the aileron throw to get even throws. The trim tab on the TX trims both ailerons at once.

When I first set up my jet in the TX it asked me if I wanted to mate the aileron channel with another channel and that is what I selected.

Jim
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