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-   -   New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-radios-transmitters-receivers-servos-gyros-157/11039309-new-6-8-11-ch-jr-radios-announced-dmss-technology.html)

littlera 04-12-2012 12:50 PM

New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
The new JR's are here! The new JR's are here!

Here is a link to JR's site that describe the release today of several new radios in the 6, 8, and 11 channel flavors today. Obviously this is timed to the opening of the Toledo show today. The new radios feature DMSS technology and have telemetry. Can't wait to buy one for myself!

What is the DMSS technology? Seems I remember that is what JR has been using in Europe and maybe other markets.

What do you guys think? They have the styling of the recent 11 channel unit I believe.

http://www.jrradios.com/New/Default.aspx

GBR2 04-12-2012 01:35 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
No images.

littlera 04-12-2012 01:55 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
Click on any of the product titles. This takes you to full specs and at least one image.

BuschBarber 04-12-2012 02:19 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: littlera

Click on any of the product titles. This takes you to full specs and at least one image.
Will they be available in the US?

littlera 04-12-2012 02:57 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
The JR site with the announcement is a USA site. It will locate USA dealers only, and refers you to a different site for international business. The fine print at the bottom shows a copyright for Horizon Hobbies, the USA distributor. And, as I pointed out, the announcemnt on the eve of the Toledo show is no accident. JR and others frequently debut new products at this largest of all R/C expos.

slarty 04-12-2012 03:32 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
Well slap me with a wet kipper !!!

I never expected Horizon to take these onboard as they are in direct competition with their Spektrum brand !!

Totally gobsmacked !

Hemikiller 04-13-2012 07:03 AM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: slarty

Well slap me with a wet kipper !!!

I never expected Horizon to take these onboard as they are in direct competition with their Spektrum brand !!

Totally gobsmacked !

Ditto!

Didn't see that coming...

fizzwater2 04-13-2012 10:54 AM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
I'll be darned.. it's on Horizon's site, too

http://www.horizonhobby.com/webapp/w...pe=productgrid


BuschBarber 04-13-2012 01:28 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: fizzwater2

I'll be darned.. it's on Horizon's site, too

http://www.horizonhobby.com/webapp/w...pe=productgrid


I have one in my hand at the Toledo show, right now.

Silent-AV8R 04-13-2012 03:54 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
I suspect this should end the complaints about Futaba having FASST, FASSTest, and SFHSS. The new JR radios are no long compatible with DSM2, DSMX or the BnF planes. Interesting to see JR going to a single receiver solution with 2 antennas and leaving the Spektrum technology.

mongo 04-13-2012 06:11 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
i was rather surprised that it took this long for JR to slap horizon down and make em fall into line on the whole radio tech thing. DMSS has been the JR thing everywhere else in the world for what, about a year now?

Silent-AV8R 04-13-2012 06:23 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: mongo

i was rather surprised that it took this long for JR to slap horizon down and make em fall into line on the whole radio tech thing. DMSS has been the JR thing everywhere else in the world for what, about a year now?

I'm not getting that out of this at all. Spektrum will continue on as it is. I don't see that changing. JR has now decided to take a different path after using Spektrum to get to market quickly.

MetallicaJunkie 04-13-2012 09:13 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
so if i were to buy JRs new 11x all my DSM2 receiver wouldnt not work?

littlera 04-14-2012 12:11 AM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
Correct. The two systems are not compatible.

1bwana1 04-14-2012 04:12 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: MetallicaJunkie

so if i were to buy JRs new 11x all my DSM2 receiver wouldnt not work?
The JR11X as currently offered by HH is DSM2/DSMX compatable. The new JRXG11 is not compatable. At this point you have to view them as different radio systems.

But understand that the 11X is a dumbed down version of XG11.The 11Xis missing a number of software and hardware features, as well as telemetry, and has a poor excuse for a manual compared to the XG11.

Yes, it is confusing and I am more than a littleunclear at this point about what the future looks like. I have really enjoyed my 11X, but wish it was as full featured as the XG11. HHseems unwilling at this point to openly discuss the future JR roadmap in the U.S..

As big an 11X fan as I have been, I would not recommend to anyone that they buy a JR/HH radio at this moment. It woud be wise to wait and see what is really going on.

Yes Bill, I am seriously thinking of making the switch to the 18mz. Just have to find a way to make the finances make sense....

Silent-AV8R 04-14-2012 09:22 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: 1bwana1

Yes Bill, I am seriously thinking of making the switch to the 18mz. Just have to find a way to make the finances make sense....

Come on in, the water's fine!! Just think of all the extra time you'll have on your hands only having to connect a single RX!! And the weight savings!! It's all good!! And this is a hobby, since when does any of it have to make sense??

Pippin 04-15-2012 12:51 AM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
There is an update available for the X11.

Here: http://www.jrpropo.co.jp/english/dl/...&db_flg=eng_dl

rmh 04-15-2012 05:13 AM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
It will be interesting to see how many of those users screw this up
Based on the lack of thought seen exercised with other brands - this update looks like it will baffle more than a few

1bwana1 04-15-2012 06:22 AM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: Pippin

There is an update available for the X11.

Here: http://www.jrpropo.co.jp/english/dl/...;db_flg=eng_dl
It looks to me like that update is to update the 11X Zero to XG11 specs. It does not apply to the JRHH DSM2/DSMX based radios. I hope HH eventually supplies an update for us.

fizzwater2 04-15-2012 07:54 AM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 

ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R


And this is a hobby, since when does any of it have to make sense??

Well said..

sgillmore 04-15-2012 09:43 AM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
I've been a loyal JR customer for many years. I currently use an 11X and an X9303. Like a fool, I jumped into DSMX with both feet. Now that I've replaced half my receivers with DSMX I find out that to get telemetry I'll not only have to sell my 4 month old 11X (which won't be worth much anymore), buy an XG11 (which cost $100 more than my 11X), then replace all my receivers AGAIN. As I told the Horizon Hobby rep at Toledo, if I decide to replace all my receivers again, it won't be with JR. I'm done. While at the Weak Signals Show, I spent more time checking out their competitors offerings.

I work in the IT industry and believe me, I understand technology advances and planned obsolescence, but this is ridiculous. You'll have a difficult time convincing me that JR didn't know they were going this route when they suckered their loyal customers into jumping on the DSMX bandwagon.

Silent-AV8R 04-15-2012 10:32 AM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
I guess what people need to wrap their heads around is that JR is a separate company. I don't think they did this lightly. They obviously decided that it made sense for their business to separate themselves from being tied to the Spektrum technology. None of us knows what may have gone on behind the scenes between those two companies. I do not think that JR did this as any part of a "planned obsolescence" program or anything like that. For all we know Spektrum was the prime cause by ending their licensing deal or something like that.

BuschBarber 04-15-2012 11:25 AM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

I guess what people need to wrap their heads around is that JR is a separate company. I don't think they did this lightly. They obviously decided that it made sense for their business to separate themselves from being tied to the Spektrum technology. None of us knows what may have gone on behind the scenes between those two companies. I do not think that JR did this as any part of a ''planned obsolescence'' program or anything like that. For all we know Spektrum was the prime cause by ending their licensing deal or something like that.
The reason they gave at the Toledo Show was that in some overseas areas, DSMX has to operate at a lower power. DMSS does not, so Range is better. There were other marketing reasons.

sgillmore 04-15-2012 12:47 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

I guess what people need to wrap their heads around is that JR is a separate company. I don't think they did this lightly. They obviously decided that it made sense for their business to separate themselves from being tied to the Spektrum technology. None of us knows what may have gone on behind the scenes between those two companies. I do not think that JR did this as any part of a ''planned obsolescence'' program or anything like that. For all we know Spektrum was the prime cause by ending their licensing deal or something like that.
I agree. We can make assumptions and speculate, but in the end most of us will probably never know the real reasons behind this move. Doesn't change my perception as a customer or the feeling that I got screwed by DSMX. I don't understand why they can't upgrade the 11X to DMSS w/ telemetry the same way they offered an upgrade from DSM2. I realize it would have to be sent in and of course there would be a cost, but it would be worth it for a lot of pilots if the cost were reasonable. To me, it appears that they were stringing along existing JR customers, giving us just enough to keep us hanging on to the brand until they were ready to release their own DMSS technology in the States. Taking full advantage of opportunities to maximize profit along the way.

As always, there will be many varying opinions on this subject with each of probably right on some level. In the end, we'll each make our own choices. I will continue to use my 11X with DSMX receivers until someone else makes a high quality 9-11 channel radio with telemetry. Until then, I will only purchase Spektrum DSMX receivers for my 11X. If JR is abandoning DSMX, then I will quit buying JR DSMX products. BTW, I know that JR is still technically manufacturing, selling, and supporting DSMX receivers (for now).

mongo 04-15-2012 01:55 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
yer beef is not with JR, they released the DMSS tech over a year ago. blame Horizon for deciding to continue with their own spektrum tech and refusing to import/sell the JR DMSS tech.

sgillmore 04-15-2012 02:40 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 

ORIGINAL: mongo
yer beef is not with JR, they released the DMSS tech over a year ago. blame Horizon for deciding to continue with their own spektrum tech and refusing to import/sell the JR DMSS tech.
I'm not really sure what went on behind the scenes or who exactly to blame. What I am sure of is that I invested heavily in JR equipment and I'm not happy about how this has turned out. As a long-term customer I'm just expressing my discontent in constructive manner. As a consumer, I'll respond by sending my business elsewhere, which is unfortunate. However, the numbers that feel as I do will probably be small enough to be dismissed by the JR corporate machine.

indubitably 04-16-2012 01:43 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
maybe someone can speek for Horizon Hobby. There must be some telling of a story here. And surely the sooner it comes out the better for them. And for them to be very open about it. Spin would really hurt them now that there has been so much depreciation of their credibilty. I also have lost. Investing in the Upgrade to DSMX, new recievers, sending in the TX thinking that some how those expensive satellites gave it an advantage. Again, plain simple answers soon.

AndyKunz 04-16-2012 05:36 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
I guess I don't understand why you think you need to change anything. You have a great product with your existing JR radio and DSMX receivers. They are not at all inferior to anything we are selling from JR now. There is nothing special about DMSS that makes it any better than DSMX - in fact, I'm a little biased in the other direction.

You still have fantastic JR quality, fantastic Horizon support for it, and a superb RF technology. If you wanted to change to DMSS I'm sure you'd have no problem selling your existing equipment so you could cross-grade. If you're worried about your DSMX system becoming obsolete, you really don't need to.


I don't understand why they can't upgrade the 11X to DMSS w/ telemetry the same way they offered an upgrade from DSM2.
DSM2 and DSMX use the same chip family. DSMX is built on top of DSM2. DMSS uses another brand of chip, one that is incompatible with DSM2/DSMX. The way the data is communicated to the chips is different. They are just too different at the lowest level.

Andy

Silent-AV8R 04-16-2012 06:03 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
SO Andy, why not whip up a nifty module that can take a feed off the trainer port that will allow the new JR DMSS owner to keep flying their BnF and such?? BTW, I'm flying the new Great Planes micro EDF F-86 using a DX6i and the Tactic Any-Link module. Maybe someday in the new world order there will be but one Borg-like protocol, but as long as there are different companies with their own business goals there will be different means of achieving those goals.

Futairtronspek-Junior (JR) [&:]

BuschBarber 04-16-2012 06:28 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

SO Andy, why not whip up a nifty module that can take a feed off the trainer port that will allow the new JR DMSS owner to keep flying their BnF and such?? BTW, I'm flying the new Great Planes micro EDF F-86 using a DX6i and the Tactic Any-Link module. Maybe someday in the new world order there will be but one Borg-like protocol, but as long as there are different companies with their own business goals there will be different means of achieving those goals.

Futairtronspek-Junior (JR) [&:]
It has always been this way with every company. Different Shifts, different connectors, Expo is + for one and - for another, polarity of the charge port on the Tx, etc. The very fact that you need to use the Anylink Module is because Futaba used a different implementation of Spread Spectrum for their Park Flyers. There is FHSS, FASST, FASTEST, and SLT. It appears only the high end Futabas will have some backward compatibility.

It has been enjoyable being able to use any JR/Spektrum receiver with any JR/Spektrum transmitter.


gsmarino2000 04-16-2012 06:58 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
I've been using the 11X and DSMX for about 5 months now (replacing Futaba 72Mhz and Spectrum DX7) and I am happy with the JR/Spektrum combination. One of the main reasons that I went with JR instead of Futaba to begin wtih was the fact that in addtion to my larger planes, I enjoy buying new BNF planes and helis now and then. I'm happy with the signal integrity performance of DSMX, and the remote receivers are a very minor nuciance as far as I'm concerned. Only thing I may miss at some point is telemetry - especially battery voltage on electric heli's and EDF's - but I'll live without it for a while.

Greg

BuschBarber 04-16-2012 07:11 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: gsmarino2000

I've been using the 11X and DSMX for about 5 months now (replacing Futaba 72Mhz and Spectrum DX7) and I am happy with the JR/Spektrum combination. One of the main reasons that I went with JR instead of Futaba to begin wtih was the fact that in addtion to my larger planes, I enjoy buying new BNF planes and helis now and then. I'm happy with the signal integrity performance of DSMX, and the remote receivers are a very minor nuciance as far as I'm concerned. Only thing I may miss at some point is telemetry - especially battery voltage on electric heli's and EDF's - but I'll live without it for a while.

Greg
You can have Telemetry with the STI module.

Silent-AV8R 04-16-2012 07:14 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: BuschBarber

The very fact that you need to use the Anylink Module is because Futaba used a different implementation of Spread Spectrum for their Park Flyers.
The micro EDF F-86 is not made or marketed by Futaba. It is a Great Planes product. So your statementt is factually incorrect.




There is FHSS, FASST, FASTEST, and SLT. It appears only the high end Futabas will have some backward compatibility.
The Tactic SLT is also NOT a Futaba product, so your point is again incorrect. It is true that Futaba has two main protocols, FASST (with the telemetry capable variant FASSTest), and S-FHSS. The 18MZ handles all three Futaba brand protocols and I would not be the least little bit surprised to see that trickle down the line in much the same maner that all radios from the 8FG on up are now actually 14-channel radios.



It has been enjoyable being able to use any JR/Spektrum receiver with any JR/Spektrum transmitter.
It appears that for the time being that will no longer be the case in the USA, at least for now. Who knows what the future may hold.

baronbrian 04-16-2012 07:57 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

SO Andy, why not whip up a nifty module that can take a feed off the trainer port? [&:]
Because spektrum wants to sell radios, not modules. There is more money in that.

BuschBarber 04-16-2012 08:21 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R



ORIGINAL: BuschBarber

The very fact that you need to use the Anylink Module is because Futaba used a different implementation of Spread Spectrum for their Park Flyers.
The micro EDF F-86 is not made or marketed by Futaba. It is a Great Planes product. So your statementt is factually incorrect.




There is FHSS, FASST, FASTEST, and SLT. It appears only the high end Futabas will have some backward compatibility.
The Tactic SLT is also NOT a Futaba product, so your point is again incorrect. It is true that Futaba has two main protocols, FASST (with the telemetry capable variant FASSTest), and S-FHSS. The 18MZ handles all three Futaba brand protocols and I would not be the least little bit surprised to see that trickle down the line in much the same maner that all radios from the 8FG on up are now actually 14-channel radios.



It has been enjoyable being able to use any JR/Spektrum receiver with any JR/Spektrum transmitter.
It appears that for the time being that will no longer be the case in the USA, at least for now. Who knows what the future may hold.

Apparently I misunderstood the relationship between Futaba and Anylink, I know the aircraft are Great Planes. Sorry for the misleading statements. They were not intentional.

I don't want to bash Futaba. They offer some very competitive products. The point is that JR has chosen to adopt a newer version of Spread Spectrum, for what ever reason and Futaba has done essentially the same thing. Will all of Futaba's flavors eventually be compatible with one another, perhaps.

I am very happy with Spektrum's offerings. As long as they continue to innovate and provide quality products, I will stay with them. If in the future, I find that there is a compelling reason to use DMSS or any of JR's new radios, then I will consider buying another JR radio. I would be faced with the same decision if I wanted to change to Hitec, Airtronics, or any other radio manufacturer.

IF JR DMSS has been marketed overseas for the past year, there must have been some inkling that it would eventually show up in the US.

When I made the decision to try JR, I bought the 8103 and gave it a try. I flew both Futaba and JR. When the 9303 came out, I sold all my Futaba radios. When I moved to 2.4, I was able to do it gradually because of the Spektrum module. That was nice. If I wanted to move to the new JR, it would be the features of the radio and not DMSS that would be the compelling reason.

Spektrum and JR are now competitors. What is the big deal?

AndyKunz 04-17-2012 10:03 AM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

SO Andy, why not whip up a nifty module that can take a feed off the trainer port that will allow the new JR DMSS owner to keep flying their BnF and such?? BTW, I'm flying the new Great Planes micro EDF F-86 using a DX6i and the Tactic Any-Link module. Maybe someday in the new world order there will be but one Borg-like protocol, but as long as there are different companies with their own business goals there will be different means of achieving those goals.

Futairtronspek-Junior (JR) [&:]
The hacker community has been doing it for a long time, Bill. They take our DM8 or DM9 modules and pick up the trainer signal and they're in business. Shoot, I do the same thing when I convert old Kraft radios into Spektrum.

It's a shame the F-86 looks like a hungry goldfish with that huge intake. I can't wait to start flying rings around folks with my MiG-15 :)

Andy

littlera 04-17-2012 10:11 AM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
I know DMSS has been around for a while (at least a year or two) in Europe and other world markets other than the USA.

What reputation has this system developed during its deployment to date? Is it bullet proof, a disaster, or something in between? Give us your experience with this system in your contry!!


slarty 04-18-2012 01:22 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
Seems to be extremely reliable. Power measurements are a breeze from the technical POV. The only issue I have had a was when doing a Firmware Update for a customer. The card reader seemed to be intermittant and the system froze on me. Had to ship it back to Japan.

So in a year, all I have had is one single set fail on me and if I had thought about it, I could have prevented the conversion process from RC Transmitter to a "Brick". :)

littlera 04-18-2012 02:05 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 
slarty,

I noticed this week that JR sells their own branded SD cards. There was some indication in their literature (don't remember exactly where) that normal everyday SD cards may not work properly in the radios. I took this to be marketing hype to sell cards at what I am sure is an inflated price, but there may be some truth to their statement. I took it that JR does some type of formatting on their proprietary SD cards, although I am unaware that you have to do this with normal cards for cameras and similar devices.


BuschBarber 04-18-2012 04:43 PM

RE: New 6, 8, and 11 ch. JR radios announced - DMSS technology
 


ORIGINAL: littlera

slarty,

I noticed this week that JR sells their own branded SD cards. There was some indication in their literature (don't remember exactly where) that normal everyday SD cards may not work properly in the radios. I took this to be marketing hype to sell cards at what I am sure is an inflated price, but there may be some truth to their statement. I took it that JR does some type of formatting on their proprietary SD cards, although I am unaware that you have to do this with normal cards for cameras and similar devices.


I don't remember which manufacturer's radio this applies to, but just yesterday I read about the need to put an SD card in a transmitter, turn the transmitter On, and the SD card would be formatted to work with that transmitter. The formatting was not compatible with a PC card reader and required a proprietary reader. I don't believe it was JR/Spektrum. The Futaba site talked about using only SDHC cards, but nothing about the formating.


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