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-   -   Multiplex - Programming Profi 4000 for Ultra Stick 60 (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-radios-transmitters-receivers-servos-gyros-157/709311-multiplex-programming-profi-4000-ultra-stick-60-a.html)

jtholley03 04-20-2003 03:26 PM

Multiplex - Programming Profi 4000 for Ultra Stick 60
 
Can someone give me some guidance doing this. I have started setting it up in a Universal Mode so I really have complete control. This is my first time setting up mixers. Each aileron has it's own servo and each flap also. Single on rudder and elevator. Thx

JohnMac 04-20-2003 06:48 PM

Profi 4000
 
Yes, I can help. What do you want to do? I am not familiar with the Ultra Stick 60 but I imagine that its a 3D style model. Tell me what flight modes you need and what functionality and I will try and guide you through it.
What do I call you by the way?
Regards,
John.

jtholley03 04-20-2003 11:17 PM

Well..
 
I have been flying a fixed pitch heli with the 4000. I know assigning the servos, travel, centers, etc. But I have read and reread the manual but I am missing it somewhere. I should start with a base but I don't want to get stuck or limited when I want to add something.

Do I need a mix for 2 seperate aileron servos?

Got flaps and I got the crow deal for ailerons up and flaps down.

How about flaps when up acting as extra ailerons at 50 or 75% aileron throw?

Not quite sure how to add an automatic down elevator mix when flaps are deployed and how to mix that into the throtlle setting.

Lets start there. I have more but at least I can get this set and that will help me with understanding the Multiplex mixing.

Thx

JohnMac 04-21-2003 08:52 AM

Re: Well..
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jtholley03
I have been flying a fixed pitch heli with the 4000. I know assigning the servos, travel, centers, etc. But I have read and reread the manual but I am missing it somewhere. I should start with a base but I don't want to get stuck or limited when I want to add something.

Do I need a mix for 2 seperate aileron servos?

Got flaps and I got the crow deal for ailerons up and flaps down.

How about flaps when up acting as extra ailerons at 50 or 75% aileron throw?

Not quite sure how to add an automatic down elevator mix when flaps are deployed and how to mix that into the throtlle setting.

Lets start there. I have more but at least I can get this set and that will help me with understanding the Multiplex mixing.

Thx

Do I need a mix for 2 seperate aileron servos? N0 just assign 2 servos to aileron, but for the other things that you want to do it is better to assign ALL your servos to SERVOMIX.
A word about mixers is in order. If you are used to Japanese mixers its like having sliced bread and butter. You can make bread and butter or buttered toast but thats it. The MPX mixer is like a pudding basin and a cupboard full of ingredients. You can make what you want. Thats because its not a master/slave system, MPX mixers have 8 inputs and can then be switched in and out as well as mixed into other mixers. You have 12 of these, 1 for each servo.
Having assigned the servos to SERVOMIX, name them and then choose which inputs that you might need. So for ailerons, you will need aileron, flap and elevator. Having assigned these inputs and named this mixer as say L Aileron you need to go to menu 1>
SERVO>TRAVEL/CURVE The servomixers and any unmixed servos will be shown in the top line in numerical order. If you named the servomix that name will appear. In the next line Appears the 1st input that you have assigned to that servo mix also in numerical order and you can scroll through to the others.
Lets start with 1:AILERON. In the next two lines you have a graphical display of servo movement, a percentage figure of the same and the point in the curve that the stick position represents.
Move you aileron stick full over and nothing happens. That is because in this Universal base type the default is zero degrees movement. You need to dial in the movement. Note that at top right of the screen is a switched menu point that will say "ON". You can scroll through here to assign this input to a hardware or software switch. For now leave ailerons "ON".
Do the same for your flap and elevator inputs, but you may want to switch these on and off at some stage, different flight modes perhaps. Repeat for the other aileron making sure that each step is identical.
Then go to your flap servos and you can do the same things. So you can have an Aileron input to your flaps, switch them on and off at will and if you only want say up aileron travel, that is all you dial in.
A bit long winded but you can get exactly what you want. Have a go at this and you will soon see that the same principles will give you elevator and throttle compensation possibilities.
Regards,

John.

CWLWL 04-21-2003 01:55 PM

Multiplex - Programming Profi 4000 for Ultra Stick 60
 
Hi Everybody,
I bought a full set of MC4000 recently, but I found the same view point as stated by jtholley about the manual, I always get to nowhere even I try hard to follow every steps. I,ve got the gears for about a month, but I just learn how to use it with some preset BASE types, I can only now using it as a OLD non-computer age system, like a Futaba 7fg I still got. Perhaps I am a foolish guy , or even an idiot with IQ<50.
I want to know how long does it take for a usual person to get used with it? Could any current MC4000 users make some input about this question here?
One more question, I want to know what is the differences between version 2,0 and OLDER version (if any) softwares? Mine is said to be V,2 as indicated on the LCD. I got a USER MANUAL with a GREEN FRONTCOVER. Anyone could kindly help in this aspect?
But one thing I must not deny is that I really like the outlook of MPX's TXs,,,they have a very solid feel, but I think it could be MUCH better if they are using METAL case instead of Plastic, I alway think that it is a metal case before I got it on my hand.

Thanks for your replies.

Regards,
David

JohnMac 04-21-2003 04:54 PM

MC 4000
 
Again, I will try to answer any questions that you have. The MC4000 is the most powerful computer transmitter currently available, but I agree about the manual, its awful. If you come from a Multiplex background its not too bad because you understand the logic. If you come from an Asian set background its much harder because there is no similarity to the logic behind the two different systems.
I bought the first set in the UK at the Sandown show. As I drove home my mate Aaron sat in the back and with just a German manual had it sussed out 3 hours later! So its not hard just different.
Have you understood the part about assigning controls, servos mixers and flight modes? Do you understand base types?
Explain were you are stuck and I will walk you through it.
BTW, the difference between the earlier versions and the current V2 is not too great but if you do not have the correct manual version this will make it even more difficult. There are some extra features in V2 as well as some parts simplified. The supplementary manual that came with the upgrade was better than the original manual.
Regards,

John.

Forgues Research 04-22-2003 09:49 PM

Multiplex - Programming Profi 4000 for Ultra Stick 60
 
John,
Have you considered writing a proper manual for the 4000. I'll bet you will sell everyone of them starting with me.

Forgues Research 04-22-2003 09:50 PM

Multiplex - Programming Profi 4000 for Ultra Stick 60
 
Quote:

Originally posted by aerografixs
John,
Have you considered writing a proper manual for the 4000. I'll bet you will sell everyone of them starting with me.

I forgot, you could make it onto a CD, which cut your cost and still sell it as a good book :)

rorywquin 04-23-2003 05:56 AM

Multiplex - Programming Profi 4000 for Ultra Stick 60
 
Take a look here - there is lots of good information!

http://www.rc-soar.com/

JohnMac 04-23-2003 05:08 PM

Manual
 
Quote:

Originally posted by aerografixs
John,
Have you considered writing a proper manual for the 4000. I'll bet you will sell everyone of them starting with me.

Roger,
I have considered it but I don't really have time.
Regards,

John.

MTT 04-29-2003 01:35 AM

Multiplex - Programming Profi 4000 for Ultra Stick 60
 
HarryC, where are you ?!?!?

I'm still learning the bells and whistles of my 3030, so I'm no help here, but Harry is the guy to ask !

Michael

HarryC 04-29-2003 10:36 PM

Multiplex - Programming Profi 4000 for Ultra Stick 60
 
Quote:

Originally posted by MTT
HarryC, where are you ?!?!?

I have been here watching all along, but JohnMac is the most experienced 4000 programmer I know of so you are in safe hands!

David in Hong Kong, you really must have the supplementary manual and use it, the original manual will lead you down dead ends since some quite important changes were made for the ver2 software. You can view the supplementary manual here http://www.rcpages.com/docs/mc4000manual.asp?page=17
It took me under a week to get used to the 4000 but I had upgraded from the 3030 so I was used to the Mpx thinking and how to manipulate mixers.

JTholley, how are you getting on? I recently programmed the quad wing for a friend's Stik, he is so pleased he now he wants it done on a quad wing modified Wot4. Full span flaps, full span ailerons, flaps, crow braking, snap flap, 3D high alpha reverse snap flap, flap to elevator trim offset, throttle to rudder and throttle to elevator trim offset with time delay and so on. Keep asking questions, because between JohnMac and I there is probably little that we have not already solved and programmed sometime in the past.

Harry

zippo 04-30-2003 07:21 AM

Multiplex - Programming Profi 4000 for Ultra Stick 60
 
Harry

I guess that I will be over your house in a week or so - with a Wot4 - with eight servo's installed - for a tutorial on how to program all of the mixers I want! I will buy the beers and perhaps a curry!

Knowing some like HC means that you don't have to even read the manual .. he enjoys doing this stuff soo much! I might even write down the programming steps and get you to put it up on RCU.

CWLWL 04-30-2003 01:23 PM

Multiplex - Programming Profi 4000 for Ultra Stick 60
 
Hello Harry,
How are you? I am the David who wrote you pm before I decided which gear to go? Thank you for your advice and recommendations. I am glad to buy such a STYLISTIC / VERSATILE system, it is really VERY DIFFERENT from the other trendy systems.
I will go to your said site to get the NEW manual in no time. Today I was trapped in a heavy jam in China..almost 4 hrs, & I tried to fiddle with the 4000, with the supplementary info on the M.Sherlim site, but still I can't make the SERVOMIX/ MULTIMIX right, maybe I'm really too stupid.
I 'd to know that is it a must to assign a NEW name to get the SERVOMIX work? ........? I'll try to organize some questions about the use of 4000, thanks in advance for all inputs from you and other experts.

Regards,
David

HarryC 04-30-2003 03:30 PM

Multiplex - Programming Profi 4000 for Ultra Stick 60
 
Renaming a servomix to something that makes sense is a "must do". Otherwise when you get to the servo travel screen it will just show servo2:servomix etc. Now, which servo was that again? Was it left aileron, right aileron, left flap, right flap, left elevator, right elevator? And you can't, or shouldn't rely on a consistent numbering system. For instance, I always start from the JR basic 4 channel sequence plus a second aileron on 5 which gives
1 throttle
2 left aileron
3 elevator
4 rudder
5 right aileron.

That's easy to know which number servo is which. But if I have two taileron servos and use the Mpx aileron input sequencing rule the sequence becomes
1 throttle
2 left aileron
3 right aileron
4 left elevator
5 rudder
6 right elevator

So from servo 3 onwards my default number system no longer applies, add in 2 flap servos and it is a true hassle to remember which servo number is which.

Therefore as soon as I have assigned a servo to servomix I rename the servomix to something like aileft, ailright, eleleft, eleright and so on. Then when I go into the servo travel screen there is no doubting which servo I am dealing with.

I do the same with multimixes, using a name which shows what the mix is and its direction, and using the special characters that are available, for instance I use RUD>AIL as the name of my rudder to aileron knife-edge multimixer.

I suggest staying clear of multimixes until you are used to servomixing etc. Multimixing is extremely useful but it has quite a number of steps to go through and takes a bit of learning. In the early days of learning the 4000, multimix is perhaps a bit too complicated.

Harry

jtholley03 04-30-2003 07:43 PM

Ok Getting Plane on Saturday
 
I sat down before I posted and haven't had a chance to get back to the radio. That will be my goal this weekend. I am sure I will get stuck somewhere and will post ?'s here.

Thx

CWLWL 05-01-2003 05:52 AM

Multiplex - Programming Profi 4000 for Ultra Stick 60
 
Hi All,
I got the Version 2 of MC 4000 on the site supplied by Harry. I think I should have this along with the set but maybe I lost it for I think it is ONLY a HELI vesion manual.
It's really important info for ALL users of V2 of 4000. I will go from here and see how long would it take for me to work with 4000 smoothly.
Excuse me Harry, I'd would like to know IF THE SERVOMIX, to some extent, is a function SIMILAR to the SLAVE channel, as CALLED in the mixer programme of some FUTABA SETS, say in 9C's? If so, what is the advantage or superiority will a user be benefit from?
Thank for your detailed answers before.

Regard,

David.

HarryC 05-01-2003 07:54 AM

Multiplex - Programming Profi 4000 for Ultra Stick 60
 
David,

If you want to do mixing then you assign a servo to servomix instead of to a specific control, whereas with the Japanese sets you do master to slave mixing. The Multiplex method is very different to master-slave mixing and you need to forget what you have learned from the Japanese radios, it will get in your way. There is simply no concept of master or slave in Multiplex. Those of us who use Mpx say that the Mpx method is far superior to the Japanese method.

If you assign a servo to a control, it takes its commands from that one control only. But there are times that you want a servo to respond to aileron and elevator and flap and spoiler, and so on. From the servo’s point of view, there is no such thing as a master and slave. It just responds to whatever signal it is getting. So instead of assigning the servo to a control, you assign it to servomix, which is like a junction box between the servo and the controls. The servomix has 9 inputs for controls. Apart from one special condition, it does not matter what sequence you enter the controls. Your aileron servo can have input 1=flap, input2=spoiler, input 3 =aileron, input4=elevator. The servo does not know or care that the aileron control was not first on the list. You choose a % value of travel for each input, and if necessary choose a switch as well.

A control can be input more than once into a servomix. For example, on your aileron or flap servo you can input the elevator twice. On one elevator input you arrange that up elevator gives down flap and on the other elevator input you arrange that up elevator gives up flap. You can then choose a switch setup that allows you switch between the two different types.

Or you could input the aileron control twice into the aileron servo. One input would have high value travel, and equal both ways. The other input would have lower travel and more right than left to compensate for engine torque. Both would share the same control switch but ON at opposite ends, assigned to throttle. That way at higher throttle you get a lower, non-symmetrical travel in order to keep the roll rate constant and equal in both directions.

The only time that the sequence of inputs into a servomix matters is if you switch on the priority function, but that is more advanced and you need not bother with that at the moment.

If I remember correctly, the 4000 manual does not make a mention of the sequence of assigning servos that take the aileron control, and it is essential if you want to use the aileron differential function. In order of ascending servo number, groups of servos should be assigned left, right, left, right etc. So if you have 2 aileron servos, the lower number should be on the left wing and the higher number on the right wing. You can choose which number, as long as left is lower than right, e.g. left wing aileron servo 2 and right wing aileron servo 5. If anything else such as flaps or tailerons has an aileron input it should follow the sequence. For example, left aileron servo 2, right aileron servo 3, left flap servo 5, right flap servo 7, left taileron servo 8, right taileron servo 9.

Harry

jtholley03 05-04-2003 08:42 PM

Once I do my servomix then what
 
I'm cornfused. Where or how do I assign my servomixes to controls. I have 1-7 servo mixes set now what's the next step. Just not quite getting it.

HarryC 05-04-2003 08:58 PM

Multiplex - Programming Profi 4000 for Ultra Stick 60
 
So you have done menu2, assign servos to servomix? Hope you renamed them!

See pp47-48 of the manual. Go to menu 2, mixers and it will look something like

Servo1:servomix (or the name you gave it)
is operated by:
1. UNUSED

Choose the servo you want to deal with, starting at input 1, activate the control field by pressing the bottom right triangle and + your way through the menu of controls. when you have got the first control, lets say AILERON TRIM (it means aileron plus trim, not just the aileron trim lever!), press the bottom left triangle button to activate the input number, + to 2, and choose the next input, and so on. If you want a control input without trim, say rudder for a knife edge mix, then select RUDDER TRIM and press the R button to toggle the trim on and off.

Go through each servo and select all inputs. The inputs don't have to be in any order, your aileron servo with flap, elevator, rudder and spoiler mixed in can have aileron as any one of those
5 input numbers, it does not have to be input number 1. Also if you have 2 aileron servos, each with those 5 controls as inputs they don't have to both have the same sequence.

Once assigned, go to menu 1 servo, travel/curve, choose the servo. Those which are assigned to servomix will, on the second line, show the number and name of the input, the curve will be flat, i.e. zero at all points. Set up the travel points for that input, choose the next input and set up its curve, and so on.

H
Harry

jtholley03 05-04-2003 10:45 PM

Ok I got that
 
Where I was confused was where you said stay out of mixers. But I ventured in there as that was the only place it seemed I could assign a servo to a function. I think I have gotten to where I need to be to start. I am trading a Futaba Gyro for 2 JR RX's tomorrow. Once my Rx battery comes in this week I will know if I am on the right track. Thanks for the help. The travels and limits I know from setting up my heli. I will repost once I have the basic functions and have a try at the mixers like crow and flaps to elev etc.

I know I could have taken the preset butterfly setup but I wanted to learn the control that I can have over this radio. Thx for all the support.


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