RCU Forums

RCU Forums (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/)
-   RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-radios-transmitters-receivers-servos-gyros-157/)
-   -   DX7 Fail safe (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-radios-transmitters-receivers-servos-gyros-157/8228636-dx7-fail-safe.html)

AJsToyz 12-09-2008 01:16 PM

DX7 Fail safe
 
I'm new to Spectrum and am having a little trouble. I am trying to program the failsafe on one of my planes with a DX7 . I am using an AR7000 receiver with a 5 cell nimh battery. I get the system to bind with no effort , but the only actual failsafe memory I am getting is the throttle. If I turn the model off then on with the radio off , it goes to the programmed failsafe. If I turn the Radio off with the model on , the throttle goes to idle but the rest of the control surfaces do nothing. Is this normal ? I thought that the control surfaces should go back to your programmed position if the signal was lost. Just looking for what I am missing or if I did something wrong.

Andy

Zeeb 12-09-2008 01:27 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
Well that's the way it's supposed to work....

Spektrum caused some confusion initially by calling what you're seeing "Failsafe" and a later version which is only available on the 9 channel and above, "SmartSafe".

Then they started changing the definitions of each one, more confusion.

Basically, with the 7 channel and below rx's the only servo that can be driven to a pre-selected position on signal loss is the throttle. All other channels remain at last commanded position. What you're seeing when the rx is powered up and before it links to the tx has on occasion that I've seen been referred to as "Failsafe". This is not the case in the traditional sense in that when you finish setting up a model, you should re-bind it with the throttle in the desired failsafe position. All others are set where they should be on power up accounting for servo directions and sub trims. This is the position the rx will drive the servos to until it links with the tx and is important as some guys with retracts found out early on. They'd set their retract servos and needed the travel reversed, but did not re-bind after setup. So when the model was turned on, it would retract the gear and then extend it when it linked with the tx.

As I said, only the 9 channel and above rx's can be programmed to drive all servos to a predetermined position on signal loss.

Hope that helps clear up some of the confusion as what you're seeing is normal.

AJsToyz 12-09-2008 01:56 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
Zeeb,

Thanks alot , that does clear it up. I either read the instructions wrong or maybee they need a revision. I am not that worried about it, its just one of those things "If its supposed to do this, what am I doing wrong?" . It is good to know that you can program the 9 channel receivers though. The main reason for trying Spektrum is the "Model match" feature. Between me being a bone head , and other distractions at the field, I have accidently started a model on the wrong program. I do like some of the Futaba programming better , but I do like some of the Spektrum better. Both seem to be very god systems, no I just have to learn a little about Spektrum.

Andy

BuschBarber 12-09-2008 02:06 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
Zeeb - I have the XP9303 with the Spektrum module. At first, I wanted the Retracts to default to UP, when there was a Failsafe event. I have since changed the default to DOWN, because every time I turn on the Tx and AR9000 Rx, the Retracts cycle, unless the default is set to DOWN.

Having the Failsafe, for Retracts, set to UP, would present a problem if you place your model on the Ground and proceed to turn on the Tx and Rx., as the gear would go UP and Down.

I am told that the system goes into Failsafe until the Rx links with the Tx, Thus, it is better to set the default Failsafe setting, for Retracts, to down.

I would prefer that if my aircraft goes into Failsafe, that the gear went up, so if it crashed, it might save the gear.

Zeeb 12-09-2008 02:10 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
Andy,

Yes the documentation leaves something to be desired, but that seems to be the way things are done by manufacturers these days. Try looking at the directions for a new digital camera!

I know what you mean about the ModelMatch....[X(]

There are a bunch of the orange shirt crowd who'll say it's not needed or necessary as they NEVER fire up a model with the wrong one loaded in the tx. But I maintain those guys are either stretching the truth, or only have one model....:)

As a former Futaba guy, I can sympathize with your confusion. Spektrum/JR does things a bit differently and it just takes a bit of time to get used to the programming, but once there I think you'll find it's really pretty user friendly.

Zeeb 12-09-2008 02:17 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: BuschBarber

Zeeb - I have the XP9303 with the Spektrum module. At first, I wanted the Retracts to default to UP, when there was a Failsafe event. I have since changed the default to DOWN, because every time I turn on the Tx and AR9000 Rx, the Retracts cycle, unless the default is set to DOWN.

Having the Failsafe, for Retracts, set to UP, would present a problem if you place your model on the Ground and proceed to turn on the Tx and Rx., as the gear would go UP and Down.

I am told that the system goes into Failsafe until the Rx links with the Tx, Thus, it is better to set the default Failsafe setting, for Retracts, to down.

I would prefer that if my aircraft goes into Failsafe, that the gear went up, so if it crashed, it might save the gear.
Well you've got the same issue as Andy, the manual is not real clear on what they call Failsafe.

If you read the stuff closely you can find it, but I had to look here for an answer before I was able to actually find it in the DX-7 manual. Coming from a Futaba 9Z WCII, the Spektrum programming was something of a system shock.

Basically, the manual refers to setting the failsafe after you finish setting up the model with the throttle in the desired position and normally one would do that with all the other servos set to neutral, or in the case of a retract servo to "down". This does NOT mean the servos other than the throttle will go to this position on signal loss, all it does is program the rx for where to drive the servos when first powered up and before it links with the tx. So the guys with retracts who did not do this final binding and had say the travel reversed on the retract servos, found out when they turned on the model that it would retract the gear and then when it linked with the tx the gear would extend.

Just remember to re-bind after setup or any major changes to the system like linkages, sub-trims and so on and you'll be fine...:D

BuschBarber 12-09-2008 02:43 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
I have been setting the Switches, Knobs, and Sticks, such that the Servos will move to these PreSet positions upon a FailSafe event. Then I BIND the Rx to the Tx.

I was told, by a JR rep, at a Jet meet I went to this summer, that there was another procedure I had to follow to get the servos on All the channels to go to the desired PreSet positions during a FailSafe event.

In the case of the 9303 and the AR9000, is it possible to set All the channels to a PreSet position upon FailSafe, and if so, does the system go briefly into FailSafe, upon boot up?

Sorry to be so Lame Brained!!!

AJsToyz 12-09-2008 04:31 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
Zeeb,

I think they might be full of something ??? he he he or they have one Tx per model?? ;) On my Stik the fail (Futaba) actually kicks the idle up. I've been tweaking and changing but never got it right. I like the fact that after setting it up I just re-bind the system and no mor fuss. I do like my snap-roll on my &C though, its fun. If I had the extra funds I might go with an X9303 but DX7 is fine for learning. The 7C also has the ailevator function , just another fun toy for me , not needed. Next step , Helicopter programming! :D

Like I said , as far as flying goes, I have not had any problems with the 7C. I think that Spektrum just did a little better job on being safe than Futaba did.

Andy

Zeeb 12-09-2008 04:32 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
Well I'm not sure if the other Failsafe or SmartSafe, whatever they're calling what.... works with the module systems?

I think that is part of what makes the ModelMatch feature work on the native systems but I'm not sure. Anyway, what you do is to put the rx into a bind mode and when the lights start flashing you pull out the bind plug and they should stay flashing. Then you turn on the tx with the button depressed and it's supposed to set all the servos to a signal loss position. Get online at Horizon and take a look at the X9303 manual, it's in there somewhere but I don't remember exactly where as I don't use that option.

Now, realize that there is a difference between where the rx puts the servos on power up vs. what happens on signal loss, not the same thing. Binding the model after setup dictates where the servos go on rx powerup and before it links to the tx, not where they go on RF signal loss.

Does that make it clear as mud???? :)

You can PM me if I've just confused the issue.

rmh 12-09-2008 05:12 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
That is the persezure

Hilarious 12-09-2008 05:21 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
Zeeb,
There is more than one Fail safe in the Spektrum radios.

Take your DX7 using the updated AR7000 with Quick Connect feature. Put the RX in Bind mode, remove the bind plug leaving the light flashing, put all controls in weird positions where they might go in a programmed failsafe. Turn on the TX while holding those positions until the bind is complete.

Then do your test. Turn on everything, turn off the TX. see what happens. Only works when you have the quick connect programing.

I know it gets confusing until you get your mind wrapped around the idea that it does way more than one failsafe. It seems Spektrum provides so many features that other radios can't do that people simply don't believe it. Subsequently it is confusing.

BuschBarber 12-09-2008 05:31 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
ZEEB - Thank you for encouraging me to read the SPM Air Module manual. It reiterates what you have so kindly said.

I have apparently been Binding my Tx to my Rx and then removing the Bind Plug. This is the process for Hold. If my Gear Switch is Up, when I Bind this way, the Gear will Cycle whenever I power up the Tx and Rx. If I Bind with the Gear Switch Down, the Gear will not Cycle the next time I power up the Tx and Rx.

If I follow the Bind process, for PreSet, and set the PreSet, for Gear, to be Up, will the Gear still Cycle when I power up the Tx and Rx? They do not cover this in the manual.

AJsToyz 12-09-2008 06:07 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
Hilarious,

Do you know how long ago they added this feature ? I just purchased my receivers within the past week brand new. I have been binding wrong, my manual does not tell you at what point to remove the bind plug. I will try again doing it this way.

Andy

Zeeb 12-09-2008 07:13 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
Oh man I just spent about ten minutes writing out a response to several posts and the RCU server dumped it all....[>:]

BuschBarber; all I can suggest is to try it.

I'm gonna go get me a beer, later guys.....:D

onewasp 12-09-2008 07:40 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: AJsToyz

Hilarious,

Do you know how long ago they added this feature ? I just purchased my receivers within the past week brand new. I have been binding wrong, my manual does not tell you at what point to remove the bind plug. I will try again doing it this way.

Andy
Roughly January, 2008.
I saved Horizon's explanation of the feature and that was dated 2/15/08.

AJsToyz 12-09-2008 08:21 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
Thanks Onewasp , I should be safe, all mine are fairly new.

Andy

BuschBarber 12-09-2008 09:21 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
Thanks Zeeb!! - I don't want to waste everyone's time going over the same stuff, again and again. I now understand how to Bind for Hold or PreSet.

I just wondered how the X9303 2.4 and the 12X behaves under the same conditions.

Thanks!!

Hilarious 12-10-2008 05:33 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
The basic TWO Bind modes do confuse everyone.
When you do the regular bind with the sticks neutral, gear down etc the reciever will send all controls to those positions ONLY on startup. This is helpful when you turn the rx on first so that flaps will stay up and gear down (the positions they were in when bound)

But the second NORMAL failsafe, which happens when the model has connected to the TX such as in flight and then loses signal will only send the throttle servo to idle, all other controls will stay in the last commanded position until control is regained.

The THIRD bind mode is not covered in the DX7 manual but is covered in the X9303. That is where you remove the bind plug after the lights are flashing (which leaves them flashing) and then turns the TX on in bind mode but with the sticks and switches held in the positions that you want them to go to in case of loss of signal during flight. On DX7 (and surprise DX6i) with quick connect this will preprogram a failsafe mode. Some competitions require controls to go to "crash" positions should the radio lose signal, this accomplishes that function.

Just go try these things to learn for yourself, there is no harm done to anything and you will quickly understand what all the bind modes can do for you. But when finished go back and set the specific bind mode you want for your model, its fun and it is simple.

AJsToyz 12-10-2008 06:43 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
I tried the differant bind modes with one of my receivers and nothing changed. I will try it again with another receiver to see if maybe the other receiver is not up to date.

Andy

AJsToyz 12-11-2008 10:55 AM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
Onewasp,

I'm not giving up on it yet. I did email Horizon before I posted any questions and they are stating any smaller than a 9 channel does not have a preset feature.

Andy

Zeeb 12-12-2008 12:13 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: AJsToyz

Onewasp,

I'm not giving up on it yet. I did email Horizon before I posted any questions and they are stating any smaller than a 9 channel does not have a preset feature.

Andy
Well that was my understanding is that it's only 9 channel and above, but I've not played with one of the newer AR-7000's which also have data ports to use with the Flight Log. I had mine updated to the latest Quick Connect firmware, but Horizon told me the data function would not be available without installing a new PCB.

I believe it was hilarious who was talking about both types being available with the DX-7, I think the feature that onewasp was talking about was the availability of the Quick Connect firmware as well as the data port on the AR-7000's manufactured after that February date.

Now there is one additional possibility; a 9 channel rx with a DX-7 tx and whether or not it would then work. I know there is some sort of communication between the 9 channel tx's and the rx to determine the resolution as the 9 channel and above rx's operate in 2048 resolution where the 7 channel and below operate in 1024 resolution. The exception would be the new DX-7SE which is a bunch faster and does run at 2048 resolution as well, but I think that will also require a new 7 channel rx for that resolution.

BuschBarber 12-12-2008 01:34 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
Does the Rx store the Failsafe defaults so it knows where to move the servos when the signal is lost? I guess I always thought that Failsafe was just Tx dependant.

Hilarious 12-12-2008 02:23 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
Zeeb,
Would you please grab a DX7 with AR7000 having Quick Connect (flashing lights) feature and do the programed failsafe just as if it was a X9303. Hold the TX sticks until the RX light comes on solid after the bind. This is the bind method with the bind plug pulled.

All entries had to demonstrate and use this at the Aeronautical Engineering competition in both Arizona and Kansas last year (DBF). Sure seems difficult to get some one to actually follow the procedure with the right equipment.

AJsToyz 12-12-2008 04:15 PM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 
Hilarious,

I have more than one of these AR7000 receivers that are only a few weeks old with the DX7 , they will not do the preset mode. I called Horizon to confirm and they are telling me that there is no preset option for any receiver with less than 9 channels.

Insert bind plug , power on receiver , lights flash on receivers , remove bind plung , bind with transmitter , failsafe for throttle only.

Insert bind plug, power on receiver, lights flash on receivers, bind with transmitter , remove plug , throttle failsafe only.

Tried it again with Horizon Tech support on the phone , they know nothing abouth the AR7000 being able to do this. They stated my receivers are working as designed.



Andy

jerdavis 12-13-2008 10:13 AM

RE: DX7 Fail safe
 

FWIW
All 4 of my AR7000 Rxs have been updated with the CQ and low volt alert. I checked just one of them to see if the preset feature would work, and it did! With the Rxs lights flashing in bind mode, I pulled the bind plug, held the aileron and elevator stick to full deflection, turned on my DX7 Tx with bind button pressed...and voila! When the TX is turned off the controls now move to those positions.

So preset works on an updated AR7000.

JD


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:53 AM.