dezfan

Well that pretty much covers it!

joecrawler

no it doesnt dez.... or does it hmmmm, oh well i am tired of arguing lets just leave it at that some people are full of themselves and stop reading RCCA

dezfan

Oh, I did that YEARS ago. I picked up a copy about six months ago and then remembered why I stopped.

rockwerks

typical Rcca STAND ON EVERYTING............middle of the road.............no real stand on anything.......it has become the saame old boring mag...........at least now there are others out there

hissyfit10

i must admit the reviews are good i like em and at least they have a sence of humor.

4wd13

it's simple really. nitro crawlers just don't go fast enough to keep the engine cool. that is why electric is the way to go.

J_Bone

My Feedback: (1)

That's not the reason at all.

Rc EnthuSiasTs

Not again. the point has come across, electic can crawl, nitro simply wont.

dezfan

Yeah, let's move on.

J_Bone

My Feedback: (1)

What are you talking about? I never said it could!
Cooling isn't why it can't Crawl.

Rc EnthuSiasTs

I know you were not stating that, but most of the reasons why a nitro can't crawl have already been discussed.

sonicn

or... you could use your current nitro truck and mod it to crawl.
The traxxas Revo i have can rock crawl just fine, with no mods except some suspension tuning. You guys.......

dezfan

I for one would LOVE to see some pics of that![X(]

cartronicshn

this what i think about nitro crawlers, if these words can actually be put together, scroll down near the bottom of the page and you will see a nitro flipping on it's back, it's got locked diffs, crawling tires, 46 engine, good luck with nitro..

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showt...t=34137&page=3

annie_himself

D*mn skippy!!!

dezfan

I was hoping the pics would be up. I'll check back!

mechanicalbob

My Feedback: (49)

I myself do beleive a "Nitro" can and will crawl, and it is one of my current projects. I have posted on here about it as well as on other forums as well. The major hold up is my recent move and setting up a new workshop. I dont mean to PICK on Rockwerks but he has stated some of the things to touch on for a nitro crawler. these are my OPINIONS on the subject.


Rockwerks: these are the facts,

Mechanicalbob: and my opinions

Rockwerks: A nitro engine is designed to run at high rpm's, crawling is done at low rpm's theengnne at low rpms will jsut eat up clutch packs
the nitro engine uses a clutch to absorb shock and impact.....put your foot in front of a tmaxx and watch nothing happen
the gearing for nitro is way too high for actually crawling...to make a decent crawler with a nitro engine you wil need gearing in the 600:1 range or even deeper AND ROCK also stated electric motors used in the sport of crawling are high turn low rpm, high torque motors ( you would not run a 10 turn mod motor in a crawler)

Mechanicalbob: I do agree the Nitro engines for cars/trucks run at high end of the RPM range of things they are designed as "Race" engines. As stated you would not run a 10 turn in a Electric crawler and I agree with that. So with that said a "Nitro" crawler should not use a "race" engine to crawl with as the Electrics do not use one eather. So I what I am using is an airplane engine to start out with is a OS FS .30. It is lower in the rpm range and has a bit more torque than a "normal" nitro. One way to bring up the torque on it is to convert it to a diesel with a Davis Diesel kit and it would help keep the heat down too. Of course other means of cooling will be needed, one way is to run a belt drivin fan off of the flywheel. As for the clutch problim I dont see one. Now for the gearing, If a Crawler has a FINAL ratio of 600:1 with 2.2 tires at WOT it would travel at a rate of about.......1-2 feet a minute, quite low but a bit slow. Put in a final ratio of about 112:1 in a nitro and you would get about 15-20 feet per minute at WOT, right about in the range of a good crawler. If I rememeber right some people are use a "lathe motor" in there electric crawler and have a ratio of about 85:1.



Rockwerks: in electric crawling many things are done to make the rig more effecient

the center diff or tranny is locked........

the clutches or slippers are usually totally done away with so the multiplied torque can be used rather than absorbed

the axles are locked so all 4 wheels will turn at teh same time

Mechanicalbob: I do agree the axles do need to be locked. As for the tranny it shoulnt be locked, the reason I say this is so the "power" can be transfered to the front or rear of the crawler as needed. the clutch system is there to help the drive train from being twisted up, as with any mechanical thing torque or power will be lost.



Rockwerks: In order to make an effecient crawler with a nitro rig you will have to over come the poor clutch performannce and have direct control of how te clutch applies torque to the driveline. you wll need to regear the center trans mission from the 2:1 range to into the 600:1 or 1000:1 to be able to use the small amount of torque actually put out by the nitro engine. A quality braking system will need to be installed to hold the rig from rolling backwards on climbs and decents, this system needs to be independant from the clutch system .

Mechanicalbob: The "Poor" clutch can be takin care of by running a 4 shoe setup, with out the springs in place so there is a "faster" lock up and disengagement. Most braking systems on nitro's are independent from the clutch setup and it would not be hard to add a 2nd brake on a nitro. some of the things needed are a "mixer" from a airplane radio and 2 disk brake setups from the NTC3 road car.

Rockwerks: this is just a few of the problems that need to be addressed to turn a nitro rig into a competant crawler.

can a nitro rig be made into a quality crawler? even after all the above is overcome, and you grow several more thumbs to control the different functions at the same time............and spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, it still willnot be as effecient, reliable or cost effective as an electric rig,

Mechanicalbob: Alot of the problims have been worked out in making a great nitro crawler, one thing that needed to be addresed was the fuel tank. A standard car tank doesnt like to run at weird angles so if you were to run one while cralwin you could starve your engine for fuel, to solve thise I am using a "flopper" tank out of an airplane so my truck can still run while on its lid. As for growing extra thumbs.........Still workin on that. All that would be needed in a nitro crawler is a 4 channel stick radio with a "mixer". As for the over all cost of a "nitro" crawler is about $600.00 so far. What I have for gear in my truck is a T-Maxx tranny with a e-maxx mod and reverse, TLT solid axles a OS FS .30 and a custom frame and a few other lil weird things.

Rockwerks: an electric crawler can be built for the cost of an aftermarket nitro engine

Mechanicalbob: It all depends on the aftermarket engine some will range from about $65.00 all the way up to about $750.00 or more, so it depends on what you want in a crawler. My OS FS.30 ran me about $145.00

As I stated these are my opinions on the subject and have been told about 500 times or more that a nitro cant crawl so I set out to build one. It should be done in late summer.

Steve.

cartronicshn

check out the link, that is an example of a nitro crawler, flipping over on it's back several times, while my clod is almost at the top

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showt...t=34137&page=3

mechanicalbob

My Feedback: (49)

First off I would like to say that you have a nice clod, but your friends "nitro" crawler is just not it. Having locked diffs wont make the cut. One needs to go far beyond "STOCK" and not start from a stock truck too, to make a true Nitro crawler. Also did you read what I had to say above?

Steve

dezfan

I'm not a fan of the Nitro crawler "concept" either. If you can overcome the severe mechanical issues a nitro crawler must overcome you still have to deal w/ the noise, smoke, smell, and fuel spill concerns as well as the fire risk issues.

Many competitions and GTG's are held in parks. We Have 2 locals to climb in our area. Both are city parks. One is a man made course in a developed park w/ softball fields and soccer fields on either side.

I can hear the uproar already if 10 - 20 NITRO powered crawlers all fired up and started belching that wonderful smelling smoke over the soccer fields as the kids were playing a game.

The other local is a rock cliff outcropping that is used for repelling, climbing, and people just out for a little quiet in the park. It isn't a maintained manicured area. There is a multitude of flammable debris from the foliage and leaves on the cliff. Can you say fire hazard?

So I wish you luck w/ your crawler. I would love to climb w/ you at some point in the future. We will just have to find an area suitable for the nitro crawler to compete.

cartronicshn

mechanicalbob, i did read your post, i also own several nitro on roads, buggies, truggies, trucks, i have tried to make a crawler out of a nitro before but it turned to be to much of a hassle and boatload of money to achieve this, i'am not saying impossible, but i just rather invest in an electric that will get the job done from the get go and not spend countless hours in r&d trying to overcome nitro powered vehicles problems when that's is not their main strenght.

slim_t

Aw come on guys. Aren't you gonna jump all over MechanicalBob and the others like you did that first guy?
And how about Cartronic for linking us to a pic of him crawling over some pebbles in his back yard?
And Cartronic, going up a muddy embankment is hardly what I would call rock crawling.
Come on Dezfan, aren't you gonna throw some hate their way as well?
What about the dumb comment about nitros can't crawl because they can't keep the engine cool?
And why aren't you demanding facts and references from Rockwerks about his 600:1 and 1000:1 ratios.
Oh, and Dezfan, I hardly think a few nitro trucks are going to smoke up and stink up a soccer field nearby. Noise might be a problem though.
Oh, and you guys should check out the RCCA special Monster Trucks edition out now. It has a feature on 4 different crawlers. 1 is a Revo. Not Matt's though. He went with a CrawlerStore Carbon Fiber NN.

No I'm not posting all this to say a nitro can crawl. I would certainly never go that route, but man you guys can be brutal.
I seriously doubt that Matt's comments are going to ruin crawling for some newbie, but your attitudes might.

That is all.

dezfan

Slim,

I'm not going to jump on MB only because my POV on the matter is already known.

MB seems to be on his game as far as Nitro goes. Much more so than many of the kids who are not as advanced in the field as he is. They see the article in RCCA and think, well if RCCA said that a Revo is a good crawler than it must be. That is bad for the sport.

As for Cartronics video, sorry I didn't watch it. I crawl and compete regularly and know what is needed to make a capable crawler.

Why is the cooling issue dumb? We are moving at VERY slow speeds for long periods of time. Our last comp consisted of 13 gates over extremely steep terrain and took close to 1/2 an hour for some to complete. These motors are air cooled and require air moving over the cooling fins at a good clip to cool the motor.

Hate? I don't hate anyone. Matt and I have a difference of opinion period. I strongly beleive that Nitro and crawling are not compatible. They go together about as well as oil and water.

As for demanding facts from Rockwerks??? Why nothing he said is any more prosperous than what was being said by the Nitro supporters. I still haven't seen a SINGLE capable NITRO crawler!

And while it may be true that a "couple" of nitro wouldn't smoke up a soccer field. But 10 - 20 (a good turnout at out comps) would and I for one don't want to battle the kids soccer league over use of the park.
Their hundreds of members would surly drown out our meager numbers. And the NOISE is worse that the stench!

As far as being brutal. Sorry if you feel that way. I felt the same way after Matt comments about "know it all" on the Internet, and I opened fire. I don't have anything against him other than his promoting Nitro crawlers in any feasible sense.

The article in RCCA, I've read it. Thanks for your input.

And "That is all".

joecrawler

well i will him for you dez![>:] it is time to mess with the masses at the shop and start a rcca ban for maryland then canada and then the usa. well not quebec becuase there gay and all, but yeah that sums it up.

slim_t

Well Dezfan, to be quite honest, I agree with most of what you said on the matter.
I also appreciate and respect the way you have replied to MB and myself on this page.
I just thought yours and Matt's bickering was a bit unproductive. What I wrote above and the way I wrote it was an attempt to show a point.
You see, some young newbie might have started the thread and asked the initial question, reads that first page and thinks, man these guys are jerks, this didn't help at all.
I mean how does he sort through the high horse talk and the actual helpful information?
Then if he reads the second page, responses are more direct and respectful, but did he even bother reading that far?
He was probably more intimidated by the attitudes than the information, and may not ever attend a crawling event if he thinks you guys are representive of what he'll see there.
I guess in the end his question was answered, but will he try out an electric crawler, or give up on crawling all together?

Sorry if I offended anyone. I was being a smarta@!#$ just to get your attention.

Thanks