hoghappy

Hey y'all...just found this site and this is my first post. Anyone here into schooners? I am about to finish my first sailing project after about a year of construction. She is a 1/24 scale, 18 gun, 2 masted schooner/brigantine from The War 1812. Her name is Prince de Neufchatel, a very proud American vessel. She is a kit purchased from here: http://www.modelsailingships.com I have hull number 4 with number 1 being the prototype. As far as I know, no one has one completed one yet and the manufacturer never built one of his own kits. This caused a lot of problems with wrong parts, plans, and instructions. All in all it was quite challenging to build but I will have her finished and in the water by July 4th. The quality of materials is excellent and the manufacturer has bent over back-wards to assist me with all questions, problems and replacement parts for the ones that were missing or wrong (thanks again Philip). He says I am the only one that has given any feedback on this particular kit. I have lots of construction pics/hints for anyone thinking about trying this model. The pics attached are of the prototype and borrowed from the modelsailingships website. Mine is slightly different as I decided to cut out the 2 stern chase gunports in case the Brits decide to try to catch me. I can't wait to terrorize the geese...[>:]

Don't forget to always choose the lesser of the two weevils...

Hoghappy

LarryLudwig

Simply lovely work there, and tons of it I am sure! You really have something wonderful and I am glad that you could share it here. I am "farming out" a schooner hull at the moment since I don't have time to build it and I need one finished for an example. I am lucky that I have two guys locally that will do the job for me. I have a mold for a couple of hulls that I have not been able to find any information regarding the real boats. One is the "Arnim Hess" and the 2nd is the "Gertrude Theobald".

The first one is basically a "Bluenose" type that I wanted to have built into something regarding the "Albermale". The dimensions are 58" LOA with a beam of 15" and about 18" from Keel to deck.

The 2nd is much longer and more narrow of beam than the Arnim Hess. that being 68" LOA with some overhang and 12" beam and about 18" from keel to deck. Since I have no idea what the actual boats used for a rig, I guess that we will just rig them out however we feel at the time.

Since these require atleast some woodwork (Deck and spars minimum) I am going to pass them along to finish out. The molds are about 30 years old by my estimate and came from REYNOLDS MANUFACTURING when I acquired them 20+ years ago. If I get any interest in them after they are finished I will probably offer them up with the rest of the inventory.

If anyone has any information on the actual boats by these names I would be very grateful to learn about them.

Thanks and keep up the great work.

hoghappy

Hi Larry...you can do a search for Bluenose Schooner and get a ton of info. There are anumber of kits out there too. Below is a photo of the original in a race and a couple scale model pics. Here is a cool sight with lots of links: http://www.amya.org/schooners.html

BTW...UC Texas is my old stomping grounds! I lived there for 15 years and went to Sam Clemens High in Shertz. Small world ain't it? [8D]

Bluenose, Winner of International Schooner Race, 1921
Hand-colored photograph, mounted on board
Photo embossed: Copyright in Canada, Commercial Photo Service, Halifax, Can.
10.5 x 13 inches (11.25 inches high including board), $400.00

Rare and dramatic race photograph of heeling sailboat. The crew can be seen standing in the boat. Water and sky are hand-colored blue. Inscription on board: Bluenose Winner of International Schooner Race 1921, Commercial Photo Service, Halifax, N.S. Considerable toning of image and backing board. Edges a bit abraded, easily matted out. Still quite nice.

Umi_Ryuzuki

OOoooh, that's one of those really beautiful, expensive, kits isn't it?
They are so pretty on the water. How does it handle sailwise?
Do the sails trim well?

There was a person in our club that rigged his schooner to fire the signal cannon.
An airplane glow plug was threaded onto the back of the cannon so that he could ignite
a small black power charge.

I would be very interested in seeing close up pictures of the rigging, and how it is connected and all breaks down for transportation. That, other projects, and $$ have sort of kept me from finishing[link=http://groups.msn.com/ModelsandMiniatures/bluenoseschooner.msnw] my schooner project.[/link]

canesugarrules

Wow, that's awsome!![X(][X(] As asked before, how do you trim the sails? That is a floating work of art!

LarryLudwig

This is the Arnim Hess straight from the mold, so you can see the size I included the mold pic as well. It could be rigged in a lot of different sailplans from fore/aft to square rig to both. It is a wonderful sailing model and has reasonable speed for pushing that much water. Basically... for me these are usually more fun to build because of the size you can really have some fun with the intricate woodwork you can build in, and your ideas will run wild... but what a time sponge! I am TOOOO busy... I have to get them in an out these days... but sure would be fun to goof around with the next time we have a cold winter and the ponds freeze over.... in South Texas? hehehehe not likely.

HEY HOGHAPPY... you need to let me know when you graduated, my wife is a Clemens grad, and I was Mac Arthur both of us 1975. Her son starts there in the Fall (assuming he makes it out of the 8th grade this week)

hoghappy

I have included some pics here that I took last night. I am having software problems and couldn't get the best pics to upload so bare with me. To answer some questions. Yes it is an expensive toy. I have about $3000.00 invested when you include the ACE Nautical Commander remote control, paints, glues, etc. I didn't track man hours, but it has to be somewhere between 750-1000 hours. A lot of that was figuring out and fixing wrong or conflicting plans and parts and mistakes etc. As you can see, she is almost ready to start terrorizing the local geese.[>:] I still need to build up the 3 square sails, fore gaff sail, and main gaff topsail. She needs the ships boat finished, cannonade glued down and few little drops of glue and paint here and there. The servos are in and sheets are mostly installed. As for how the sheets work...I will try to get some close up pics as soon as I get my software working again. Basically the fore aft sail sheets run from the clews at the end of the sails, down through a polypro tube in the deck, though a set of blocks (pulleys) below deck, and tie off to a sheet winch drum. They each have a small fishing weight attached below deck to take up free slack. The jibs do the same and attach to a second drum on the same winch (reversed winding) so that they are let out at the same time. The fore sail (square sails) yardarm is turned by a pair of sheets through blocks and to an regular servo with a long arm, one sheet going to each side of the arm to pull each direction. I hope that I can be of help to anyone needing it. This has been a real learning experience for me.

I ask that you go to the main boat forum and vote on the poll question regarding a new forum for schooners and square riggers. I also hope that you will finfd the time to get into a multimasted ship....she looks great in the house and I know she will look even better on the water.

hoghappy

Larry...I was in Uncles canoe club sailing the big blue planet at the time you were in high school. I turned the big 50 this year, so I guess that makes you and yours a little younger...but not much...

I built one of those Blue Devil Destroyers and ran it remote...I think it is a Fletcher class. Here is a pic the one of the ships I served on....full scale of course...

hoghappy

Make that the Boat General Discussion Forum for that poll...thanks![sm=sunsmiley.gif]

Larry Ludwig

Yeah... you are ahead by a nose I am 48 at the end of this month. I was the guy in that F-16 that was having TOO much fun turning Rich Uncles kerosene into smiles

I live on the approach to the East runway at RAFB now and people wonder how I can stand the noise... I always ask them What noise? I just feel as if I am work.

Lots of work moving those square rig yards around, that is a major achievement. I thought about putting squared topsails on the schooner... but... nah.... I am going to chicken out and just run headsails.

hoghappy

I am going to run with the squares furled as in the pics...for starts and probably most of the time. The squares will be deployed if a very light wind situation demands them. The actual rigging for the squares is much simpler and easier to run than for the fore aft sails. It was a real bugger threading those 3 jib sheets below deck. It was done blind, by feel only. I wished I had someone else to sail with here, but I have never seen another boat and the hobby shops that open here close again very quickly. That is one reason I got out of planes....that and like you said...it gets expensive when you crash and it is very nerve racking for me. I want to sit back and enjoy it...ya know what I mean Vern?


BTW...my ole man was stationed at RAFB for about 10 years....I lived off the West runway...in the neihborhood (it was new then) where the old police/fire station was off Pat Booker Rd. I used to get the AP's chase me for flying my kites in the landing pattern airspace. Still got the T37's and T38's there?

Umi_Ryuzuki

That is looking really good "Hoghappy".

I am still not sure how all that breaks down and fits into a car for transport to and from the pond. Does all the rigging stay attached or does it disconnect?
The Masts looked Threaded, but then all the rigging would have to come off to unscrew them.

Did the plans come with a frame drawing? If it did can you try to post an image of the frame plan?

Thanks for walking us through your build.
[8D]

Umi

hoghappy

Hey Umi...I forgot about that question...here goes...the bowsprit assembly unplugs and lays on the deck after carefully lifting off of the jibstays and cutting a couple of zip ties. Next the main mast hinges aft and unplugs and is pulled out and layed on deck... after unhooking some of the rigging. The formast top unplugs and the fore mast pivots back to lay on the deck. Everything breaks down so that the overall length for transport is about the same as the hull itself! It should take about 10 minutes to hook and plug in everything on site. It even comes with a dolly to launch with. I hope to get it in the back seat of my Caprice.

There are no frames...it is a one piece gel coat fiberglass hull.

I do have 3 or 4 full size sheets of plans and a 1/4 scale sail plan.

I will try to post the entire build here if the mods will let me.

Have a good one.

Umi_Ryuzuki

Ok, I see the splines at the base of the mast that they must hinge on.
thanks.
Take a pic of the masts down when you get a chance.
It would be very informative.

Umi

hoghappy

Does this help?

LarryLudwig

Boat looks great, and makes SO much sense to do the hull out of glass. I am tooling up J boats at the moment, and I see these guys doing all this intensive work laying plank on frame and I go in and pop out a hull in an afternoon. YOW ! When you get a chance I would like to see a pic of your ship with something in background to give it scale.

Is there any external ballast or were they able to ballast within the scale hull? It didn't appear that the hull was altered to accomodate more lead.

We have a new copshop and firehouse now closer to 1604 and the old one was a Little Caesar's that just went bust. Yeah, if you flew a kite there I bet you would get some attention. I shot an approach into Austin Mueller once and broke out and found a hot air balloon that some frat boys decided to launch (Daddy was out of town) and the FAA got pretty bent about that too. (Woke me up in a hurry)

hoghappy

How about a pic of her chasing a full scale goose? [sm=eek.gif]

I will try to remember to place a ruler in the foreground when I take some more pics...ok?

Some of the pics posted on the build up thread has bottles of CA glue and tools in the foreground.

As for the ballast....no...I wish it were internal for appearance sake...but I am also glad that extra 25 pounds is removable for transport sake.

I will try to get you a pic of that too. It is a hunk of very dense metal that attaches to the keel via threaded rods that go through a keel shaped spacer (approx 3 inches tall) then up through watertight tubes in the hull and topside. An ingenious way to hold them was devised...smoke funnel forward and barrel aft with brass inserts screw to the ends of the rods. The ballast itself is also keel shaped...about 1/2 inch thick, 3-4 inches tall and runs most of the length of the keel. She still has a pretty shallow draft unlike a lot of other sail boats with the long keel. She should not pick up any weeds as everything below is streamlined and nothing to catch on.

As for the kite flying...I was just a kid and never really thought about the consequences. I guess I gave some of those pilots flying those trainers a little extra training?

I would love to see some of your work...and do me a favor...go to the add a schooner thread and vote....man is this place slow. Is this place new and still growing and are there any other good forums out there?

MyWay

Hog happy.
I have assembled both the hms Surprise and the brig Irene. Any problems that I had were rectified by Phil the owner in a more than timely manner. I enjoyed building the ships and added a lot more detail. However with all the added detail it just makes it a lot harder to knock down and set up. I scratch built a 1/18 scale model of the Berlin using ply and wood timbers. Sure took a lot more time than putting a fiberglass kit together. I am now working on 1/48 scale model of an English 84 gun ship Royal Katherine. This ship turned out to be quite a time consuming project. It's good to know that there are other people into square rigged ships also.

hoghappy

MY WAY...I would love to see some pics...I wish I had someone here to sail with. As for Philip...yes...he has done everthing quite timely to help with anything I have asked. He has done more than I feel most manufacturers would. I think I am the first person to build a kit of the Prince and that is why I had all the problems. It should be much easier for the next fellow.

Have a nice day.

MyWay

hoghappy.
I will see if I can come up with pics. I have never worked with images on computors before. Might take a while so don't hold your breath.

Here are some pictures of my ships.

The first one is The Berlin.

Second one is Brig Irene

Third on is HMS Surprise

Fourth one is my current project Royal Katherine.

MyWay

Here is a pic of the Sovereign of the Seas. This ship was started 15 years ago and will never be completed. It was built to a scale of 1/33 using plans that were out of scale. What a waste of time this was.

hoghappy

MyWay...WOW!

You have spent some time and expense.

I would love to build another but my wife almost divorced me over this one...lol

The Sovereign of the Seas is a feast for the eyes even unfinished...man what a shame!

I got to really test the sea worthiness of the Prince Sunday...I post some pics.

x-craft

My Feedback: (3)

I love those multi masted scooners. I have an americas cup boat which is fun to mess with but I would really rather have a big sailing ship. I have not seen kits like these around but I have not looked a whole lot either. Can you turn me onto a good company to get kits from? Most of my experience is building chris craft boats so I'm an electric power guy. I love sailing though.

Thanks
x-craft

hoghappy

x-craft,

Here a some links:

http://www.modelsailingships.com

http://www.victor-model.com/maryjward.html

http://www.amya.org/schooners.html

The last one is a good place to start. It will give you links to other sites.

Happy hunting!

x-craft

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks for the links, they will definantely get me going in the right direction. Right now I'm working on a WWII destroyer but now's the time to start looking for the next project.

Thanks again
x-craft