Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
06-04-2009, 07:43 AM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ajax,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Gary
I will certainly post more photos as the build finishes and will try to get some video footage of the carbon boat sailing as part of its mauden voyage. Hopefully I'll get a good windy day to really try it out. I'll most likely post the vid on youtube as I did with the other boat. Probably a couple of weeks away depending on how much time I canfind to get the boat finished.
TBK
06-04-2009, 06:58 PM
#27
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Can anyone out there give me a heads up on the "elastomeric bow bumper", any ideas on build material options, moulding options, and fixing to bow options would be greatly appreciated !!.
Cheers
Gary
Cheers
Gary
06-05-2009, 06:16 AM
#28
Senior Member
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
TBK and Dreamwakes
Allthough it looks like we´re "alone" here in this forum, I´m aware that several persons keep silently reading OUR rc-multihull topics here.
A good video footage on youtube is something very vital for expanding the class.
Most modelbuilders want to see the actual speeds these boats can achive.
Elastomeric bow bumpers:
1)They can be done with 2-component silicon used for charakterfigure moulds.
There are special publications on the different kinds of silicon and their application.
2) You could use the same stuff as used for rc-car tires,
but that stuff is tricky to shape/sand.
3)The funniest - but probably best - tip is, to use "Fipflops".
You know, these coloured sandals you are mostly using on the beach during summer.
It can be cutted with a "Stanley-Cutter", can be sanded as well.
4) Glue it to the hulls with silicon, superglue or doublesided selfadhesive tape.
For advanced female mould building you could also add a trepezeshaped slide
into the front of the hulls, where the foam/silicon counterpart slides into.
Can you imagine what I mean?
________
Regarding underwater hull shapes some final words:
You need to add to your considerations about waterflows, that the downside of ANY hull acts like the upside of an airfoil!
As soon as a hull is moving through the water, the waterflow SUCKS it downward.
To find the optimum relation between necessary buoyancy and as little induced downforce as possible is the most difficult thing here.
You may have noticed, the underwater "profile" - view from side - of Mk.VII and Mk.VIII mainhull are identical, but the cross sections are not.
and the keel rockerline (keelcurve/keelradius) of the floats have become flatter, for less induced drag.
IDEALIST
Allthough it looks like we´re "alone" here in this forum, I´m aware that several persons keep silently reading OUR rc-multihull topics here.
A good video footage on youtube is something very vital for expanding the class.
Most modelbuilders want to see the actual speeds these boats can achive.
Elastomeric bow bumpers:
1)They can be done with 2-component silicon used for charakterfigure moulds.
There are special publications on the different kinds of silicon and their application.
2) You could use the same stuff as used for rc-car tires,
but that stuff is tricky to shape/sand.
3)The funniest - but probably best - tip is, to use "Fipflops".
You know, these coloured sandals you are mostly using on the beach during summer.
It can be cutted with a "Stanley-Cutter", can be sanded as well.
4) Glue it to the hulls with silicon, superglue or doublesided selfadhesive tape.
For advanced female mould building you could also add a trepezeshaped slide
into the front of the hulls, where the foam/silicon counterpart slides into.
Can you imagine what I mean?
________
Regarding underwater hull shapes some final words:
You need to add to your considerations about waterflows, that the downside of ANY hull acts like the upside of an airfoil!
As soon as a hull is moving through the water, the waterflow SUCKS it downward.
To find the optimum relation between necessary buoyancy and as little induced downforce as possible is the most difficult thing here.
You may have noticed, the underwater "profile" - view from side - of Mk.VII and Mk.VIII mainhull are identical, but the cross sections are not.
and the keel rockerline (keelcurve/keelradius) of the floats have become flatter, for less induced drag.
IDEALIST
06-05-2009, 08:24 AM
#29
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Idealist,
I am sure there are others silently reading this thread and others like it...I spent two years reading these forums before I made any sort of contribution and with over 100 plans of yours floating around (that you have on record) there is likely a few of these potential builders ..watching, thinking, planning maybe??.Right now there are builders in Kuwait, Canada, Thailand that we know of..how many do we not know of??.
Its all good..those who make the commitment to build will hopefully share some ideas and results.
Thanks for the bow bumper ideas, I particularly like the Flipflop idea ( we call them jandals down here though mate), will give that idea a shot, the missus won't be needing hers until October.
Interesting words on flow, tis an intriqueing subject, so many compromises go into hull design. I had noted the design features of the below waterline shape of the VII and VIII and did spent a huge amount of time studying them, measuring them, and understanding why you had done what where!!.
I think what struck me the most is that essentially in the VIII you had actually reproduced many of the design features inherent in the ORMA 60's, (moslty in the float hulls) this was a leap ahead of all prior designs I had seen from your board...but will it work??. I have only seen a very short video of Sirits VIII and that was what convinced me we were on the right track.
By the way...a mate who has just arrived in France a month ago and is staying in Lourant??(think thats how its spelt) wrote and told me he had witnessed the launch of the all new "Bank Pop tri"!!.....seen any pics yet ???.
Nearly competed main hull...hoping to release from building board this weekend and laminate both hulls...
Dreamwakes
I am sure there are others silently reading this thread and others like it...I spent two years reading these forums before I made any sort of contribution and with over 100 plans of yours floating around (that you have on record) there is likely a few of these potential builders ..watching, thinking, planning maybe??.Right now there are builders in Kuwait, Canada, Thailand that we know of..how many do we not know of??.
Its all good..those who make the commitment to build will hopefully share some ideas and results.
Thanks for the bow bumper ideas, I particularly like the Flipflop idea ( we call them jandals down here though mate), will give that idea a shot, the missus won't be needing hers until October.
Interesting words on flow, tis an intriqueing subject, so many compromises go into hull design. I had noted the design features of the below waterline shape of the VII and VIII and did spent a huge amount of time studying them, measuring them, and understanding why you had done what where!!.
I think what struck me the most is that essentially in the VIII you had actually reproduced many of the design features inherent in the ORMA 60's, (moslty in the float hulls) this was a leap ahead of all prior designs I had seen from your board...but will it work??. I have only seen a very short video of Sirits VIII and that was what convinced me we were on the right track.
By the way...a mate who has just arrived in France a month ago and is staying in Lourant??(think thats how its spelt) wrote and told me he had witnessed the launch of the all new "Bank Pop tri"!!.....seen any pics yet ???.
Nearly competed main hull...hoping to release from building board this weekend and laminate both hulls...
Dreamwakes
06-05-2009, 08:48 AM
#30
Senior Member
06-06-2009, 12:24 AM
#31
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Cheers for the bank Pop link Idealist, great pics....she looks a lot bigger than an Orma 60??.
So here's some pics of the fully planked completed centre hull with some pics alongside the float hull....Once again, I am very pleased with the shape...
Over 130 hours into the build so far...very satisfying to be moving to the next stage of plug build.
So here's some pics of the fully planked completed centre hull with some pics alongside the float hull....Once again, I am very pleased with the shape...
Over 130 hours into the build so far...very satisfying to be moving to the next stage of plug build.
06-07-2009, 06:38 PM
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ajax,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Gary
Good job. The planking looks good of both hulls. Nice shape - fairly true to the original design. Keep the pictures going especially as you move into the plug mound phase.
TBK
Good job. The planking looks good of both hulls. Nice shape - fairly true to the original design. Keep the pictures going especially as you move into the plug mound phase.
TBK
06-11-2009, 05:35 PM
#34
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Hi TBK,
yep been making progress slowly, still some time away from moulding but will post an update on build over next two days.
yep been making progress slowly, still some time away from moulding but will post an update on build over next two days.
06-12-2009, 05:28 AM
#37
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Hulls now tied together with a layer of 9oz cloth.There was no way I was gonna get a laminate into the bow so mixed up a batch of epoxy, microballons a little diced glass mat and filled up the bow sections.....hulls now back on the boards..rock solid and ready for acoat of paint, should be able to throw some at it this weekend.
06-12-2009, 06:02 AM
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ajax,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Gary
Looking good. Did you coat the exterior with a layer of glass after it was sanded and faired? It makes for a much less porous and harder surface that can be then primed and painted, prior to casting the female mould.
TBK
Looking good. Did you coat the exterior with a layer of glass after it was sanded and faired? It makes for a much less porous and harder surface that can be then primed and painted, prior to casting the female mould.
TBK
06-12-2009, 06:49 AM
#39
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Hey TBK,
Have not sanded exterior yet , I will not be laminating any glass onto the exterior..I despise sanding the stuff, I know most builders of rc craft build plugs with layer of glass over wood before filling/ fairing but I believe this is totally unneccessary.
I will be brushing on a coat of everdure (wood sealer) on before putting a guidecoat of primer this weekend. The everdure will seal the timber nicely and provide a great base for the epoxy primer and as I will be getting down to a session of fine wet and dry paper work (eventually) it will just add some protection against the wood absorbing water.
Once paint is dry I will attack the plugs with sandpaper for the first time., I am not concerned about the plugs being too porous and soft for moulding tools, Have built plenty of plugs in the past with mdf and epoxy paint only and always had great results. I expect the balsa to get down to 1.5mm-2mm thick in many places but its very dense balsa so will hold its shape .
Have not sanded exterior yet , I will not be laminating any glass onto the exterior..I despise sanding the stuff, I know most builders of rc craft build plugs with layer of glass over wood before filling/ fairing but I believe this is totally unneccessary.
I will be brushing on a coat of everdure (wood sealer) on before putting a guidecoat of primer this weekend. The everdure will seal the timber nicely and provide a great base for the epoxy primer and as I will be getting down to a session of fine wet and dry paper work (eventually) it will just add some protection against the wood absorbing water.
Once paint is dry I will attack the plugs with sandpaper for the first time., I am not concerned about the plugs being too porous and soft for moulding tools, Have built plenty of plugs in the past with mdf and epoxy paint only and always had great results. I expect the balsa to get down to 1.5mm-2mm thick in many places but its very dense balsa so will hold its shape .
06-12-2009, 11:05 PM
#40
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Gary
Are you planning on selling hulls once you have got your first set done.
I have been toying with the idea of building a mini 40 myself for some years, but have not been able to find the time too get started.
I did have another couple of guys interested at one stage as well.
Selling or renting out your molds could help offset some of your costs as well.
Marty
Are you planning on selling hulls once you have got your first set done.
I have been toying with the idea of building a mini 40 myself for some years, but have not been able to find the time too get started.
I did have another couple of guys interested at one stage as well.
Selling or renting out your molds could help offset some of your costs as well.
Marty
06-13-2009, 12:56 AM
#41
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Hiya Marty,
Yep..doing this eats thru the time...Been toying with this buildthing for many years but finally the time is right to get a few hulls out of some moulds.
Sell some???, Hmmmmm...............sure..why not!!!, first thing though is to get things right with the hulls..we'll see how that works out before taking things to another level, It would be great to have a few other local sailors with mini40's. Couldn't see myself renting outmy tools though, too muchblood , sweat and years in them to let em off their leash.
Nice to hear from you Marty, very nice to know there is someone else in NZ keen on Multi RC yachts.
Mast Update...Todd at Isobar yachts has supplied me with a nice teardrop section aluminium extrusion, he can only supply 1.82 mt however so I am thinking this maybe a little short...perhaps I need to buy some more and build a sleeve to join em...maybe a carbon sleeve??.
Yep..doing this eats thru the time...Been toying with this buildthing for many years but finally the time is right to get a few hulls out of some moulds.
Sell some???, Hmmmmm...............sure..why not!!!, first thing though is to get things right with the hulls..we'll see how that works out before taking things to another level, It would be great to have a few other local sailors with mini40's. Couldn't see myself renting outmy tools though, too muchblood , sweat and years in them to let em off their leash.
Nice to hear from you Marty, very nice to know there is someone else in NZ keen on Multi RC yachts.
Mast Update...Todd at Isobar yachts has supplied me with a nice teardrop section aluminium extrusion, he can only supply 1.82 mt however so I am thinking this maybe a little short...perhaps I need to buy some more and build a sleeve to join em...maybe a carbon sleeve??.
06-13-2009, 01:07 AM
#42
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Today , gave the hulls a little tickle with the longboard to knock off the high points, sharp edges and excess epoxy thatbled through the hull planking joins as a result of laminating the internals.
Then with a rag, applied 4 wet on wet coats of Everdure epoxy wood sealer....and they just keep looking better...gonna be a shame to throw paint over that wood...still, its gotta be done and all going wellthat'll be tommorow.
Then with a rag, applied 4 wet on wet coats of Everdure epoxy wood sealer....and they just keep looking better...gonna be a shame to throw paint over that wood...still, its gotta be done and all going wellthat'll be tommorow.
06-13-2009, 03:42 AM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 823
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
ORIGINAL: Idealist
Elastomeric bow bumpers: ........
...... 3)The funniest - but probably best - tip is, to use "Fipflops".
You know, these coloured sandals you are mostly using on the beach during summer.
It can be cutted with a "Stanley-Cutter", can be sanded as well.
Elastomeric bow bumpers: ........
...... 3)The funniest - but probably best - tip is, to use "Fipflops".
You know, these coloured sandals you are mostly using on the beach during summer.
It can be cutted with a "Stanley-Cutter", can be sanded as well.
Otherwise, you might want to track down Carl Weatherall - he make top flight one meter hulls, with really nice silicone bow bumpers on them ..... could also be helpfull re fins - again his are top quality stuff (and stiff as buggery too)
Go to the nth shore model racing club on lake Pupuke in Takapuna (where the rowing club is) and look for him there. (off at the motorway offramp where Clear is based going north, turn right, and go straight ahead at the "T" crossing on the far side of the Clear building, and right down the road taking the first right about 100m past the lights - Sunday is best)
Ps, really nice build!
06-13-2009, 04:30 AM
#44
Senior Member
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
ORIGINAL: dreamwakes
Mast Update...Todd at Isobar yachts has supplied me with a nice teardrop section aluminium extrusion, he can only supply 1.82 mt however so I am thinking this maybe a little short...perhaps I need to buy some more and build a sleeve to join em...maybe a carbon sleeve??.
Mast Update...Todd at Isobar yachts has supplied me with a nice teardrop section aluminium extrusion, he can only supply 1.82 mt however so I am thinking this maybe a little short...perhaps I need to buy some more and build a sleeve to join em...maybe a carbon sleeve??.
that´s looking incredibly good so far!
Just keep the pics coming as you´re moving along!
About the mast profile:
Could you give us the diameter of it?
1.82m should be at least good for the B-rigg, but the Germans (especially WIESEL) also have been experimenting with full size sailarea (0.9m2) on short(er) masts to keep the center-of-effort low.
I personally kept on using carbontubes for masts all time.
Linesheeting:
WIESEL and SKAUTalso stopped using swing-riggs, as they sometimes caused troubles going downwind in a blast.
All lines run over deck.
Please also check the detail pics of the carbon/epoxy-prototype I built for Eric Gielen for this matter.
SKAUT did the rigging and the sails for him!
Idealist
06-13-2009, 06:56 AM
#45
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Hi kiwibob, another local..fantastic!!!, cheers for the info, I will head over to Lake Pupuke on a sunday and take a look see...wouldn;t mind taking over my ETNZ's for a dip at same time...just fitted them out with a new set of sails built by Isobar.... be good to see whats going on with the local scene...my understanding was the Northshore club was probably the most active in Auckland.
Hey Ersnt, cheers for compliment..I am very happy with whats going on my my shop..everything's going to plan thus far.
The mast section is 15mm x 9 mm with a 1mm wall thickness, its actually pretty light...I had been considering building carbon spars with a teardrop section but may just run with this aluminium section..it has the bonus of a mast track slot.
Funny you should mention swing rigs at this point, I have had a few sleepness night trying to understand which type of rig I should be building..I had read that with swing rigs ,downwind things can get a little top heavy and out of control.
I have enjoyed playing with the idea of a gennekar running on a servo / furling system...will keep deveoping this idea.
Have you got any links for the carbon build project you mention??.
Gary
Hey Ersnt, cheers for compliment..I am very happy with whats going on my my shop..everything's going to plan thus far.
The mast section is 15mm x 9 mm with a 1mm wall thickness, its actually pretty light...I had been considering building carbon spars with a teardrop section but may just run with this aluminium section..it has the bonus of a mast track slot.
Funny you should mention swing rigs at this point, I have had a few sleepness night trying to understand which type of rig I should be building..I had read that with swing rigs ,downwind things can get a little top heavy and out of control.
I have enjoyed playing with the idea of a gennekar running on a servo / furling system...will keep deveoping this idea.
Have you got any links for the carbon build project you mention??.
Gary
06-13-2009, 09:41 AM
#46
Senior Member
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
ORIGINAL: dreamwakes
Have you got any links for the carbon build project you mention??.
Gary
Have you got any links for the carbon build project you mention??.
Gary
And sailmaking:
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php?t=61535
And another good german tri:
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php?t=61535
06-13-2009, 01:47 PM
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ajax,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Gary
Great job so far keep it up. Looks like you will be able to find several other folks around you that will be interested in sailing mini 40s. Keep the pics coming. I will be launching my second boat very soon. Finishing is almost complete. Check out the Nightmare build for the progress.
TBK
Great job so far keep it up. Looks like you will be able to find several other folks around you that will be interested in sailing mini 40s. Keep the pics coming. I will be launching my second boat very soon. Finishing is almost complete. Check out the Nightmare build for the progress.
TBK
06-13-2009, 11:22 PM
#48
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Thanks Idealist , just as well a picture speaks a thousand words...my German is pretty rusty,,, interesting links, the last two seem to be the same links??. are they Nightmare hulls??,
It would be great to have some local interest TBK, I'm sure there is a few keen down this way.
So here's some pics of the hulls with a light coat of primer and a speckle of black, ready for blocking down now, I only gave them alight 80grit yesterday, So here goes a couple of weeks of fairing/ filling and a few coats of paint in between.
It would be great to have some local interest TBK, I'm sure there is a few keen down this way.
So here's some pics of the hulls with a light coat of primer and a speckle of black, ready for blocking down now, I only gave them alight 80grit yesterday, So here goes a couple of weeks of fairing/ filling and a few coats of paint in between.
06-14-2009, 12:01 AM
#49
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Gary
Things look to be coming along well.
When I was looking into building a couple of years back, there were some very resonabaly priced custom foam wings from a company in the States that I was going to use to build molds for the rigs. I think from memory for 4 diffferent sized rigs the foam blanks worked out to about $200NZD. I think that I was going over the top and you could just use one mold for all of the rigs. The RC Landyacht guys use these, but I think they leave the foam in them.
Marty
PS Did you get my Email
Things look to be coming along well.
When I was looking into building a couple of years back, there were some very resonabaly priced custom foam wings from a company in the States that I was going to use to build molds for the rigs. I think from memory for 4 diffferent sized rigs the foam blanks worked out to about $200NZD. I think that I was going over the top and you could just use one mold for all of the rigs. The RC Landyacht guys use these, but I think they leave the foam in them.
Marty
PS Did you get my Email
06-14-2009, 01:30 AM
#50
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Kiwi Mini40 Trimaran build log
Hey Cytek, tep, got your email, cheers.
Not sure if you are talking about solid foam foils or using them as sailmakers block??, anyways I will be setting these up with mylar sails, although wouldn't mind experimenting with solid wing sails!!.
Gary
Not sure if you are talking about solid foam foils or using them as sailmakers block??, anyways I will be setting these up with mylar sails, although wouldn't mind experimenting with solid wing sails!!.
Gary
