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OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

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OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

Old 05-05-2011, 05:20 AM
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tilsonm
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Default OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter



HELP! It's driving me crazy!

New OS 61 FX. Has about 1/2 gallon of very irregular run time. Motor now runs only with glow igniter attached. It will run about 7 seconds at 1/4 throttle with the igniter off.



I have done the following in separate steps so as not to confuse the result:



1. Leaned the engire to the point that it wouldn't run, the backed off 1/4 turn.
2. Changed Glow Plugs
3. Changed Glow Plug ingniters
4. Changed mufflers from Pitts to standard and back
5. Changed gas tank and fuel linies.
6. Checked Head-Bolts and all other fittings
7. Changed props
8. Tripple checked needle valve for dirt etc.
9. Tried with and with/out a fuel filter.



I'm running 10% Nitro mixture. When it is running, it seems to run OK at full throttle and will idle ( a little bit high ). It does not transition quickly from idle to full very smoothly. A little hesitation or total stop depending on needle settting.

Thanks in advance.
Mike

Old 05-05-2011, 05:42 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

ORIGINAL: tilsonm



HELP! It's driving me crazy!

New OS 61 FX. Has about 1/2 gallon of very irregular run time. Motor now runs only with glow igniter attached. It will run about 7 seconds at 1/4 throttle with the igniter off.



I have done the following in separate steps so as not to confuse the result:



1. Leaned the engire to the point that it wouldn't run, the backed off 1/4 turn.
2. Changed Glow Plugs
3. Changed Glow Plug ingniters
4. Changed mufflers from Pitts to standard and back
5. Changed gas tank and fuel linies.
6. Checked Head-Bolts and all other fittings
7. Changed props
8. Tripple checked needle valve for dirt etc.
9. Tried with and with/out a fuel filter.



I'm running 10% Nitro mixture. When it is running, it seems to run OK at full throttle and will idle ( a little bit high ). It does not transition quickly from idle to full very smoothly. A little hesitation or total stop depending on needle settting.

Thanks in advance.
Mike


Did you adjust or check your mid-range?

Many people don't know about this technique and they usually have engine problems because of it. Also if it only has a 1/2 gallon of fuel, it doesn't sound like you've properly broken in your engine if it is that new. No matter what the manufacture says- "Break in youre Engine!"


Normally we have to keep turning off the motor everytime we make a turn on the low end, and every time I did that, we have to re-adjust the top end needle. It can be a pain!

But I found a way that was taught to me by one of the Ol'times at my club on how to accurately find and set your mid-range, without all the calisthenics.

First I usually crank the engine at 100% then bring it down to 50% and take a long wire hanger, straighten it out and beat one end with a hammer and file the tip straight- and use it to adjust your low end while your engine is running at 50%. It will go up in RPM quite a bit and if it starts to decrease in RPM when you are tightening the low end, then you went too far. Back off on it! As soon as you have that nice smooth sound, back off 1/8th of a turn. Now Throttle up and re-adjust your high end.


What I just explained to you is how to adjust your low and mid-range. With a straight coat hanger, and by making a thin screw driver out of it, if you slip your wire will hit the prop and not your hand and you can get a more accurate setting besides all that. While making your adjustments keep your glow igniter on just incase she wants to quit on you while you are making adjusments.

I'm sure it will work for you. Most glow 2- stroke and 4- stroke engines run on the same principle. From my experience I found that O.S. is one of the easier engines to adjust. Saito second. JMHO

Try it, I think you will solve most if not all your issues unless there is something wrong mechanically.


Pete



Old 05-05-2011, 08:48 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

Good advice.

Here's another thing to be aware of. Sometimes, fuel can get old and not want to burn. It will be difficult to start and keep the engine running with fuel that has turned bad.

If you can't adjust the engine to run, don't wait too long to try a fresh source of good fuel.

Then, if the earlier advice doesn't fix it, and the new fuel doesn't fix it, be looking for a source of extra friction (like seize marks on the piston / liner.)

Good luck,
Dave Olson
Old 05-05-2011, 08:48 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

If it runs good with the igniter on, then the problem is the mixture, the glow plug or the fuel.
Old 05-05-2011, 09:00 AM
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tilsonm
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

Thanks Pete. I didn't want to confuse people with the earlier personality of the engine but you asked about break-in.

I broke it in according to OS guidelines with about 3 tanks of gas. It ran then without this glow-igniter problem.

After break-in, I put the cowling on and proceded to do final idling settings. Then I started having problems. !st I had a pin hole in a gas line. Then I found I had the gas lines coneected wrong. I had iput from tank to needle valve and thne thru another outlet to the carb. The OS 61fx acutally allows you to put the needle value on either one of two locations. Anyhow, I corrected that problem then this glow thing started. Then I changed plugs, igniters, mufflers, tanks, lines, etc.

I will give the low-end a try. But what keepts bugging me that it ran furing break-in and now will run perfectly (or close) but only with the glow igniter attached.

Thanks for you contribution and I'll certainly let you know of the results.

Mike
Old 05-05-2011, 09:47 AM
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tilsonm
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

Thanks to all you guys. Pete was correct. I've never had to turn the low-end mixture screw before. My engine was too rich to run at anything but full throttle without the glow-igniter. Now, it at least runs. I've got some more adjusting to do but this is the right direction.

Thanks much. I hope I have the chance to return the favor.

Mike in Arlington Texas.
Old 05-05-2011, 11:03 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

And use the 4 stroke F plug.
Old 05-05-2011, 11:43 AM
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tilsonm
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

On the two stroke engine?
Old 05-05-2011, 12:11 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

ORIGINAL: David Bathe

And use the 4 stroke F plug.

I dis-agree. He should run a O.S. A5 like I have it in mine. It works perfect in my O.S. 61FX. The F Plug is a long plug, and the A5 is a short plug designed for this engine. He will risk piston slapping on the plug resulting in piston damage over time if he uses a long plug.

I'm glad I helped you. Not many people know that little trick, so you will have plenty of times to teach others. When Tom showed me that trick at my Club I was flabbergasted!


Have fun and have a great flying year.


Pete
Old 05-06-2011, 01:16 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

F plug, in an inverted 2 stoke... exactly.
It's slightly longer...that's the point. Helps keep the plug anyway from any pooling in the inverted cylinder head.
It's like one of the oldest pro' tricks in the book. Oberst must be to young.

Old 05-06-2011, 02:19 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter


ORIGINAL: David Bathe

F plug, in an inverted 2 stoke... exactly.
It's slightly longer...that's the point. Helps keep the plug anyway from any pooling in the inverted cylinder head.
It's like one of the oldest pro' tricks in the book. Oberst must be to young.


No, you are mistaken on both accounts. I just disagree with you.


Pete
Old 05-06-2011, 03:08 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

sounds rich.
Old 05-07-2011, 10:44 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

It is..(was).
And use an F plug
Old 05-07-2011, 04:35 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter


ORIGINAL: David Bathe

It is..(was).
And use an F plug

You use it, I'll use what's recommended by O.S.

I have a 1983 FS- 120 that has all the original parts and it runs as if it was just broken in. Why? Because it wasn't screwed with. I'vee been a Tech and worked for Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki and went to AMI in Sarasota, Florida. I worked for several private small engine repair shops and am NYS Certified.

You can be a backyard mechanic or you can be trained as a real tech. I was trained as a tech. The first rule that is taught is you don't use anything that's not recommended by the manufacture or you can risk damaging your engine. Also all manufacture warrenties become void immediately.

All combustion engines run on the same principle even if they run on different fuels. 2-Strokes engines has no moving parts where as a 4-Stroke does. Some 2-strokes uses reed valves where others don't. Some 4-Strokes has tappet adjusments and some only use buckets and you adjust the valves by using thicker or thinner buckets.

Every 6 months I had to be retrained because the manufacture was always making changes and I always had to have special tools.

So if it's Saito, O.S. or what ever, don't take chances and read the book and only do what the manufacture recommends.





Pete
Old 05-07-2011, 06:41 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

Personally I use A3, and A5
Old 05-07-2011, 07:06 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter


ORIGINAL: Oberst


ORIGINAL: David Bathe

It is..(was).
And use an F plug

You use it, I'll use what's recommended by O.S.

I have a 1983 FS- 120 that has all the original parts and it runs as if it was just broken in. Why? Because it wasn't screwed with. I'vee been a Tech and worked for Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki and went to AMI in Sarasota, Florida. I worked for several private small engine repair shops and am NYS Certified.

You can be a backyard mechanic or you can be trained as a real tech. I was trained as a tech. The first rule that is taught is you don't use anything that's not recommended by the manufacture or you can risk damaging your engine. Also all manufacture warrenties become void immediately.

All combustion engines run on the same principle even if they run on different fuels. 2-Strokes engines has no moving parts where as a 4-Stroke does. Some 2-strokes uses reed valves where others don't. Some 4-Strokes has tappet adjusments and some only use buckets and you adjust the valves by using thicker or thinner buckets.

Every 6 months I had to be retrained because the manufacture was always making changes and I always had to have special tools.

So if it's Saito, O.S. or what ever, don't take chances and read the book and only do what the manufacture recommends.





Pete

I would have no issues running the F plug. If one would take the head off a 2 stroke model engine and see the plug clearence you would clearly see the plug would have to reach an additional .100+ to make contact with the piston. What we are most conerned with is heat range. The idea is to match 4 things. Compression ratio, nitro content, plug heat and prop. All these things affect the " ignition timing" for lack of a better term. For the most part the manufacturers have all that sorted out and following the instructions is best for people with limited experience. For those of us who like to tinker there are always alternitives. Some work some won't but thats how we learn right?


Old 05-07-2011, 11:35 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

ORIGINAL: dvs1

Personally I use A3, and A5

Me too.


Pete
Old 05-08-2011, 07:31 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

Of topic, but further to the plug conversation.
Over the years I've settled on two plugs: Enya nr 3 (my normal two stroke plug) and the OS F type (my 4 stoke plug of choice).
Having said that, I've been using the F in inverted two strokes for years. Everything from the .46FX to the 1.40RX. I was something I picked up from the F3A scene. Works GREAT. Especially if you have a two that runs rich in the mid range which is normal when using a pump.

Nitro wise I use 30% heli in the YS 4 strokes but only 15% in the OS four strokes.
Two stroke wise, I've tried many combos but found that OS prefer 10-15%. If one goes 15% I'd recommend one extra head shim. Not necessary for 10% running but but really smooths out the two strokes on 15%.

Regarding the scary long F in a two banger... there are many long reach plugs out there for two strokes so nothing to be scared about.
Try one Pete, the engine won't explode.

 
Old 05-08-2011, 07:12 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 FX - Won't run without Glow Igniter

I would put my money on fuel being to old easy test just try new fuel!!!

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