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Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

Old 05-21-2011, 12:23 AM
  #26  
tl671
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

"ARF builder" That's an oxymoron, there is no such thing.
Old 05-21-2011, 05:13 AM
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.


ORIGINAL: allanflowers

The Ansaldo is proof of the old statement that it is far better to be lucky than smart. Anybody building a model of that size and complexity in 14 days is an idiot and the flight is proof.
Sorry to say that but it is true.
I just don't agree.
Anybody building a model of that size and complexity in 14 days show great skill and knowledge... no least on the sticks.
Sure it was a luckly last second before touch down but your average scalie would have had a total panic attack, over controlled, lost it directly after takeoff and blamed it on radio problems!
He didn't!

Something was terribly wrong with that model but I can't accept a modeller with that much skill and knowledge would screw up somethin' as simple a the CG.
Mind you...it's happened.


Old 05-21-2011, 05:21 AM
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

Besides for most average builders (like me) a "day" can really mean like 15 minutes of work. Some modelers seem to have the stamina to spend 8-10 hours in the shop...and really get stuff done! So 14 x 8 hours days is definitely possible.
Old 05-21-2011, 06:55 AM
  #29  
Steve Percifield
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

Abu:

In Billy's case, it's more like 14 days times 20 hours per day. He;s an animal when it comes to building. And it's quality work. The art work on the side of the Ansaldo, you see in the second video, was all hand painted.

David:

It wasn't a CG problem. The wings are very thin and as a result very flexible. The rigging keeps it alinged and the rigging failed. If you listen very carefully, you can hear a wire snap right after it drifts over the corn. And it was probably a little under powered, even though I thought the original 90cc engine did a pretty good job.

steve
Old 05-21-2011, 07:04 AM
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

Here's the Daring Duo on Dawn Patrol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7tTC20m9AY

Old 05-21-2011, 07:05 AM
  #31  
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.


ORIGINAL: allanflowers

The Ansaldo is proof of the old statement that it is far better to be lucky than smart. Anybody building a model of that size and complexity in 14 days is an idiot and the flight is proof.
Sorry to say that but it is true.

Not a very intelligent comment

Old 05-21-2011, 08:21 AM
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Steve Percifield
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.


[quote]ORIGINAL: abufletcher

Here's the Daring Duo on Dawn Patrol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7tTC20m9AY


I have a video of billy flying so early at one of the dawn patrols, I had to film it in night vision. I'll find it and post it later.

sp
Old 05-21-2011, 10:44 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

Much better with that engine but still looks slightly tasil heavy and he loves to fly at edge of stall. Nice plane though too badd next flight was crash. Stall????
Old 05-21-2011, 01:50 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

I am of the opinion that it is never a good idea to point out how fast something was built. I do not personally find that impressive. The fact that the aircraft had problems and then was lost to a crash illustrates this point.
I would have rather heard that it took 3 months and then that the airplane flew for years after that. I would not consider this effort a success on any level.
Old 05-21-2011, 02:22 PM
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

You know one of the true keys to fast building is ...LOTS OF BENCH TOP !
When you can be working on the wings, fuse and tail at the same time it gives a tremendous advantage..I have trouble with super glue fumes..but those that don't can go like heck !
Also constant chord wings can be kocked out like crazy. Since this plane had flying wires for support that means even less internal wing parts..that is if its like my 1/3 pup is inside the wings... personally I would never build a wing that needed wires to hold it together, I would rather have a strong D tube box built in wing, and have the wires for looks and extra strength...

it would take me a week to cover and paint that monster...
Old 05-21-2011, 03:10 PM
  #36  
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

ORIGINAL: foodstick
personally I would never build a wing that needed wires to hold it together, I would rather have a strong D tube box built in wing, and have the wires for looks and extra strength...
With WWI models, this isn't really an option once you go much bigger than about 1/6 scale. Personally, I'm unwilling to accept those ridiculously fat BUSA wings. Doing functional rigging is just part of WWI building.
Old 05-21-2011, 03:22 PM
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

ORIGINAL: foodstick
You know one of the true keys to fast building is ...LOTS OF BENCH TOP !
I suspect that anyone who can roll a 40% model out onto their own personal grass flying field (as seems to be the case in the video), has an impressive shop!
Old 05-21-2011, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.


ORIGINAL: F4u5


ORIGINAL: allanflowers

The Ansaldo is proof of the old statement that it is far better to be lucky than smart. Anybody building a model of that size and complexity in 14 days is an idiot and the flight is proof.
Sorry to say that but it is true.

Not a very intelligent comment

+1
Old 05-21-2011, 05:03 PM
  #39  
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.


ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

I am of the opinion that it is never a good idea to point out how fast something was built. I do not personally find that impressive. The fact that the aircraft had problems and then was lost to a crash illustrates this point.
I would have rather heard that it took 3 months and then that the airplane flew for years after that. I would not consider this effort a success on any level.
Guys, this is not about you. Give the guy a break. Always a critic....replies like this irk me. It's always easier to sit back and analyze the results than create them yourself.

Kudos to the builder...I do find it impressive and do not see how you can correlate the 2 (build vs. crash), lest I be considered an idiot too for losing my Polikarpov I-16 on the second flight (took me 9 months to build).

I don't see the point of this thread being about the build time, it was merely a point of interjection.

Jeff
Old 05-22-2011, 07:13 AM
  #40  
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.


ORIGINAL: F4u5


ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

I am of the opinion that it is never a good idea to point out how fast something was built. I do not personally find that impressive. The fact that the aircraft had problems and then was lost to a crash illustrates this point.
I would have rather heard that it took 3 months and then that the airplane flew for years after that. I would not consider this effort a success on any level.
Guys, this is not about you. Give the guy a break. Always a critic....replies like this irk me. It's always easier to sit back and analyze the results than create them yourself.

Kudos to the builder...I do find it impressive and do not see how you can correlate the 2 (build vs. crash), lest I be considered an idiot too for losing my Polikarpov I-16 on the second flight (took me 9 months to build).

I don't see the point of this thread being about the build time, it was merely a point of interjection.

Jeff
The fact that they go out of the way to mention how quickly this aircraft was built, in the title of the video and the interview, shows he is proud of that fact. That would be fine if the project was a success, but it was not.
The speed at which this aircraft was built is directly responsible for the result of the maiden flight, which is the point of this thread.
Old 05-22-2011, 07:35 AM
  #41  
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

I have to agree with VG here...an ultimately with Allan, even if his comment was a bit undiplomatic. Bill Thompson is an experienced builder and flier of large scale WWI models. He clearly has some major building and flying skills. And as a regular participant on the Dawn Patrol circuit he may have been building to very tight deadlines. But in this case, the speed of the build seems to have worked against the ultimate result. And I think it IS reasonable to assume that the speed of the build is related to the early demise of this particular model.
Old 05-22-2011, 07:39 AM
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

To put some perspective on this project. The 15 day build time can be misleading. An average builder might have 30-40 hours actual building time in 15 days. Bill had an accident a couple of years ago and as a result is in constant pain. He cannot sleep, so he makes use of the awake time by building. He builds around the clock, 20 hours a day. So in the 15 days he would have had 250-300 hours actual buiulding time. Couple that with the fact he is incredibly talented ( an artist, a scultptor, etc) and very efficient. I have tried to keep up with him on some projects. He and his planes compete in Scale Masters, Top Gun, the NATS, and so on.

steve
Old 05-22-2011, 10:22 AM
  #43  
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

You never know what's going to happen when you design a model from scratch, especially an unusual design. With WW1 planes you can have all sorts of design issues like thin undercambered wings, various amounts of wing stagger, lower wing with narrower chord, various wing incidences, etc. Figuring out the correct CG on your own gets very tricky.

The first flight of my Hannover was just about as bad as this one was. I calculated and recalculated my CG until I was sure I had it in a safe location, but sure enough, on the first flight it was tail heavy and was extremely difficult to control. I was lucky to get it down in one piece! I went back home, added weight in the nose and bit the bullet and reduced the wing incidences from scale. Now it flies beautifully and has many, many flights on it.

You just can't be sure on that first flight with a model of your own design. The number of days to build doesn't matter. If you have the tools, materials, and motivation, you can build a good model in a very short time. Now, detailing it out is another matter![8D]

Jim
Old 05-22-2011, 11:20 AM
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

Makes you wonder what the outcome would of been like had it taken 15-16-17-18 days in order to fully test the wing brace wires and rest of the rigging.....

Building quickly is "normal routine" for some. But it also leaves lots of time for "that'll do's" and over-sight. No-one can undermine how impressive it is to go from idea to paper, to parts, to flying model in 14 days... But then on the flip-side of that, it can (and probably will) bite you in the butt at some point.
Old 05-23-2011, 10:15 AM
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

Ever heard of Aristotle, Socrates, Plato?.........morons!!

ZZ.

and never get into a ground war in southeast asia.......
Old 05-23-2011, 10:20 AM
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tl671
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

And only slightly less well known is, never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.
Old 05-23-2011, 10:22 AM
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

PRECISELY!

ZZ.

PS.

You just can't be sure on that first flight with a model of your own design. The number of days to build doesn't matter. If you have the tools, materials, and motivation, you can build a good model in a very short time. Now, detailing it out is another matter!

You got that right ; )
Old 05-23-2011, 10:41 AM
  #48  
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

Inconceivable!
Old 05-23-2011, 10:52 AM
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tl671
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.

Now you see what you've started ZZ, you hijacked this thread like The Dread Pirate Roberts.
Old 05-23-2011, 11:54 AM
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Default RE: Anyone have a maiden flight like this.


ORIGINAL: abufletcher
I think it IS reasonable to assume that the speed of the build is related to the early demise of this particular model.
Or failure of materials.
Things get real strange when you go extra big.
In the UK you just can't build a large (UK large. USA think: super-massive-giant) model. There are inspection routines from the Large Model Association, certificates to obtain etc etc.
Doesn't matter if you've been knocking up big birds for years, the moment you go large... a whole new series of variables, failure points comes into place.
Great design, wrong material... even though it may well be the same material you've used without fail for years.
That's the whole point of having these examiners going around sticking their nose into your building project.
I believe all the large model ass' members see them as an asset, rather than the opposite.


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