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  1. #26
    Wolperdinger's Avatar
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    RE: WarbirdColors Paint

    Interesting. I wonder if you got a bad batch somehow? The first photo is of my elevator. The second photos is my re-worked Park Zone foamie. I don't usually fly foam, but it's a fun bird to throw into the air and burn some holes in the sky without worrying too much about what happens to it. Both have been painted with War Bird Colors.
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  2. #27

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    RE: WarbirdColors Paint

    Anything is possible.

  3. #28
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    RE: WarbirdColors Paint

    I've heard that the Nelson's paints are difficult to spray. I've always just used a foam brush and you really work into the fabric. And the white is hopeless in terms of covering. It's like trying to paint with milk. But for the darker colors it's great stuff. (And I'm assuming here that Warbirdcolors is essentially the same stuff.)

    At any rate, the Nelson's paints are definitely different and there's a bit of a learning curve.

  4. #29

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    RE: WarbirdColors Paint

    I've used both Nelsons and WBC. They worked about the same for me, no problems.
    Edwin

  5. #30

    RE: WarbirdColors Paint

    First of all I want to state that Warbirdcolors is NOT the same formulation as Nelsons/It is NOT made by System Three. Saying that Nelsons and Warbirdcolors are the same because they are both "water based acrylic polyurethanes" is like saying that a Yugo and a BMW are the car same because they are both gas-burning automobiles. It's a very different product folks.

    Warbirdcolors began life as an industrial direct-to-metal finish for painting cell-towers and water tanks etc. The formula was tweaked over several iterations until it was "right".

    In MOST cases you will not need to thin more than 10%-15% with WATER. The exception may be if you are using an airbrush. An airbrush will take more thinning, and more cleaning of the equipment during the process. The thing I stress is to PLAY WITH IT. The viscosity is the key to success, and it is different for every spray set-up as well as for each color. Warbirdcolors is made from three(3) different bases and depending upon what the final color is to be determines which base is used. The darker colors tend to be thinner than the lighter colors. Certain colors, such as yellow and red, tend to be more opaque than others. The same can be said of some of the greens. PLAY WITH IT. If it is running, it is too thin. If it is rough on the surface, it's probably drying mid-air and feels like fine sandpaper on the surface. It needs to be "built-up" and a wet (or wetter) coat in the end. You cannot put it all on at once....

    I've been doing Warbirdcolors for 7-years and have talked to many, many experienced builders and painters. They will all agree...There is a learning curve with water-based products...PLAY WITH IT...paint a cardboard box...PLAY WITH IT

    If anyone is having trouble, contact me...DIRECT please, not through somewhere like this...

    Sincerely,
    Chuck
    http://www.warbirdcolors.com
    Authentic Colors for Your Scale Warbird

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  6. #31
    Wolperdinger's Avatar
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    RE: WarbirdColors Paint

    Thanks for showing up and defending your great paint, Chuck! Like I said, I really like your paint  and I will be placing another order this spring for my big Bf-109. I've convinced a few other guys in our club to try it, and I'm looking forward to seeing their projects this summer.

    Frank.

  7. #32

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    RE: WarbirdColors Paint

    Hi everyone,
    I am about finished glassing a TF 1/7 P-51. I have never painted an airplane, but need to paint the Mustang! I bought the paint from WBC (chuck was super helpful). But, can anyone of you help guide me through the type of gun you used to spray the paint, what size tip, etc... I live in FL so its hot and humid (but I can bring the painted part inside to dry.

    Any vids on you tube?

    Thanks

    Nate

  8. #33

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    RE: WarbirdColors Paint

    Nate, If you use an airbrush get one with a Large Tip and Needle. WBC paint is highly pigmented and needs the larger tips to flow decently. You can use badger, iwata or any other good brand of airbrush.

    I have an Iwata Detail gun for larger spraying. The detail guns work just fine as they are with no special tip etc. Mine is a pint sized gun. Other's have used cheaper guns form harbor freight etc. Maybe.. they do a decent job. I like the better spray stuff myself.

    WBC paint colors are each a little different to thin. It's not difficult but all colors don't thin the same. You want your paint about the consistency of milk when its mixed with water. This will give good coverage and a decent flow.
    BobH.

  9. #34
    Wolperdinger's Avatar
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    RE: WarbirdColors Paint

    I use a cheap touch up gun that I got from an automotive supply shop. It has served me very well and have not had any problems with it using Warbird Colors paint. I use windshield washer fluid as a thinner. I find it works better than water. I think the detergent in it helps the paint flow out better.

  10. #35

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    RE: WarbirdColors Paint

    I use paasche VL and the harbor freight 5oz hvlp. I found it helpful to use a diaphragm pump with a larger air tank. I charge up the tank, let it cool a bit then spray, I get less moisture spit that way. I also have an air conditioned shop which also helps in drying out the air. I set my pump pressure to about 28psi to 30psi depending on the sprayer I use. WBC is great paint, I love it, cleans easy, and mixes easy. I havent used it since the formula changed but I wouldnt hesitate to use it again. There are lots of good clear coats to use. I thin with RO water and flush the sprayers with water between each refill. Takes time, but painting is a zen like thing for me. Just get all the stuff you need right there so you dont have to quickly go looking for something. Its all in the prep work to get a good finish.

    About the harbor freight hvlp. Its an ok sprayer. You have to stay on top of it cause adjustments move. Its what you can expect from a cheap sprayer. I'm sure a good one wouldnt do that.
    Edwin

  11. #36

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    RE: WarbirdColors Paint

    I painted my P-47 with this rig its a Binks airbrush its a high end tool, but any airbrush would work well enough using a airbrush for shooting WBC paints takes some experimentation to get the feel of the paint generally 25-30% thinner(water,windshield washer fluid) whatever is your preference.

    notice the graduated syringe it helps with consistency when thinning, and also drawing the paint out of the cans it keeps things neat and there is also less waste

    what really worked for me was a small amount of alcohol added to the thinner mix, this allows the material to flow but evaporates quickly when sprayed.

    also a hair dryer to warm the surface and dry off the coats quickly works great, my wife donated a old one for my hobby activities, its good to be mindful of the heat settings not too hot, when I tried using a heat gun it was too much heat the hairdryer worked the best for me using rapid passes back and forth to speed the drying at about 12-18 inches from the surface,keep in mind I live in a humid area but not really very hot so its about a learning curve but I am pleased with the warbird colors paints.

    I have also shot latex using a touch up gun from Husky that I bought from Home Depot like these I have the 49$ one and it works great for shooting larger areas http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/cata...gry=Search+All I repainted my ESM FW190 with it using latex house paint worked like a charm
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  12. #37

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    RE: WarbirdColors Paint

    Thanks for the replies guys,
    Ihave the old formulation (I bought the paint a while ago. Ihave a spray gun set (better than HF, but not expensive)

    When you primed did you put the cross linker in the primer too? Iam a Noob at painting but am excited to have a paint scheme that nobody has done before

    Thanks

    Nate

  13. #38

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    RE: WarbirdColors Paint

    I did.
    Edwin

  14. #39

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    RE: WarbirdColors Paint

    I only add the cross linker to the clear coat. Not to the paint or primer. IF you don't clear coat then of course you need to add it to the paint. No need to worry about the primer. Its under the paint.
    BobH.

  15. #40

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    RE: WarbirdColors Paint

    I didn't cross link the primer but when I shoot the colors I added it.

    one thing that made a big difference was when doing multi-color schemes and you want a tight line, after I taped off a area I sprayed clear over the tape line to prevent bleed over, then I sprayed the intended color, this was particularly effective when I shot the invasion stripes,the stars and bars on the bottom of the wing, and the checkerboard pattern on the cowl, there was some tedious masking on that project.

    I also painted this spitfire using some WBC colors for the insignia's and some markings, both projects I used stencils from www.getstencils.com they worked great .
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  16. #41

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    RE: WarbirdColors Paint


    ORIGINAL: BobH

    I have an Iwata Detail gun for larger spraying. The detail guns work just fine as they are with no special tip etc. Mine is a pint sized gun. Other's have used cheaper guns form harbor freight etc. Maybe.. they do a decent job. I like the better spray stuff myself.
    Both Dave "Mr. TopGun" Wigley and Roy Vaillancourt use the inexpensive touch up spray guns from Harbour Freight to do the finishes on their models. The important thing to remember is that it takes some time to get the right mix, pressure setting and technique to get a good finish. Most airbrushes just don't have the capacity to do models the size most of us build. They work very well for smaller subjects and detailing/weathering but for overall spraying, you really need something like an automotive style touch up gun. Otherwise you're going to spend an awful lot of time refilling those small paint holders and multiple passes to cover an area. The one that both Dave and Roy use is normally priced around $13. So if it gets messed up because you didn't clean it well and the thing is clogged badly, it won't break the bank to go buy another one. That's not to say you shouldn't get the higher priced spray gun but if the cheaper one works good enough for the Top Gun Crew, why not spend the money on something more important, like a better engine or retracts or whatever.

    J F Sohm - AMA# 192350 - IMAA# 15145
    If you're not catching any flak, you're not over the target.

  17. #42
    TomCrump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang51 View Post
    Like I said... Didn't cover, and "ran" no matter how thin I applied it. Did 5 lite coats and was not covering. Can was mixed well and was NOT thinned.
    Experience may be the best teacher.

    I used Warbird Colors with no problem. Light coats were applied at first. No runs were encountered. I gradually increased to heavier coats. Again, no runs. A wet coays was applied, last. The finish was outstanding !
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    Tom C

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  18. #43

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    beautiful job...did you ever experience the paint lifting...this is my first use of Latex paint from Warbird and the white lifted off the primer in spots. I used 400 to sand the rattle can primer...primer stuck...paint did not...anyone have the same experience...

  19. #44

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    I used warbird colors too. Don't sand the primer with 400. thats a little to slick for decent adhesion of the paint. I use 320 and it works ok. If you can use 220 even better.
    I'm not much of a believer in cheap spray guns.. regardless of who uses them.
    BobH.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveyrt View Post
    beautiful job...did you ever experience the paint lifting...this is my first use of Latex paint from Warbird and the white lifted off the primer in spots. I used 400 to sand the rattle can primer...primer stuck...paint did not...anyone have the same experience...
    Thanks !

    I had lifting, but it was over unsanded, unprimed, metal panels. The paint came up when pulling the masking tape.


    Like Bob, I use 220- 320 grit to sand the primer. 400 in more of a polish than a "sand". It is too fine to produce much mechanical grip from one coat of paint to the next.
    Tom C

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  21. #46

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    Something an old body shop guy showed me was to use a piece of USED sand paper between layers of paint on fabric surfaces. Worked really good without leaving scratches. It pretty much smoothed out the roughness, worked like a champ.
    Edwin

  22. #47

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    Thanks guys...very helpful. Chuck has been helpful also, when he has time. I reshot the wheel pants...that's my #Box# Chuck talks about in the 2012 thread. easy to sand off and try again. It will have multiple layers of taping so the white will have a good test of sticking power over this time 2K two part auto primer. This stuff has to regain my trust before I put it all over a large scale ship with rivets where a sand down is not an option. I again thinned it to about 40%. I am using a Iwata low pressure airbrush but it went on well and this time with a 240 sanding no runs! All I can say is, if you are in a hurry...warbird paint is not what you want...but it has an outstanding dull finish done well...here is hoping it sticks.

    rick

  23. #48

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    Well a quick update...just pulled the tape off and got some minor pinhead size lifts where the paint did not stick. There is no reason for this...! Incredible precautions of cleanliness were observed. 240 dry all around and cleaned with denatured alcohol. It is lifting off the primer which was two part auto primer not rattle can.....All I can say is it's frustrating and not worth painting on a $2,000 airframe.

    Paint should not be an experimental issue. Yes, how it is applied is a personal journey but the stuff needs to stick. A couple of words about this paint...if you don't plan to put tape on it or stencils you're probably ok. put some clear on it and fly... If you shoot it with a gun and not an airbrush, and put a good layer on you would probably have a better chance at adhesion.

    I have shot lacquers and epoxys before the days of Mono Kote and will go back to them...Klass Kote here I come. Some positives for Warbird Colors...

    The colors are very vibrant. The matte finish is easy to work with and looks incredible. The cleanup is easy. But!!! treat this paint like you would Epoxy paint in clean up...once it drys ( and this is where the paint really sticks!) there is no going back and getting it off...not easily anyway......No smell, and it looks like it would color and still hold scale details on the surface. I may still use it for weathering where I am not pulling on it with tape...When the paint is shipped to you...it is packaged incredibly well, well worth the extra in shipping.

    Some negatives...the paint is not a slam dunk to use. It can take many layers to cover. I would use only White Primer, because some colors...yellow, red, white are very translucent and even a pencil mark can take forever to cover completely. The paint will run on you in a heartbeat if you are not careful. If it is glossy and you are about to spray over it again STOP, you are seconds away from a run, if the run hasn't already started! However...unlike volatile paints ... when the run evaporates most of it is water and the run is easily sanded down...sometimes you don't even have to do that. Dealing with the company is your own journey...good luck. All in all I'm sure the paint is good paint...just not the best you can buy, and for the price it should be.

    These are my thoughts from using the paint...not necessarily the gospel, just my observations.

  24. #49

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    Davy,
    Just a few observations on your comments. When i used an airbrush I too needed to thin the paint a lot. That was until I got a brush with a bigger tip.
    WBC is so viscous with pigment it tends to clog the normal airbrush tips. Hence the need for over thinning.
    Just some thoughts.
    BobH.

  25. #50

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    Bob...I think you are correct and I am not sure if the lifting is because of the paint is going down so thin that it lacks something to cling to the primer in that initial surface contact...then as you build on it the base is still weak. I wish I knew. I just don't think the paint should be shot with an Airbrush because of the thinning issue, but then the paint is contacting the surface wet not dry...so why does it randomly not stick...also, the lifting is coming from under the 3M blue vinyl striping tape...could there be an issue with the glue used by 3M, which is pretty much universal in the paint industry, and the paint...Bob...have you ever used Warbird paint over say...Klass kote...I know it's compatible the other way around. Reason I ask is I had Chuck mix a special color for me...it's perfect and expensive...I want to use Warbird paint ... don't get me wrong...it's just that I can't bring myself to put it all over a 2K airframe and then have it start lifting as I tape and add graphics...

    Rick


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