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WarbirdColors Paint

Old 04-15-2014, 12:53 PM
  #51  
BobH
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Rick, I think since WBC is water soluble you can use it over anything. I wish we lived closer I'd paint for you.
If you have runs under your painter tape then the paint is WAY thin. Too thing actually. Sounds like its mostly water and very little paint. WBC has excellent coverage in my experience so not many if any additional coats for coverage.
Old 04-15-2014, 01:40 PM
  #52  
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Bob I would take you up on that...no, no run issues, my comments were for the casual user, to be careful it can run and run quickly...especially in a humid environment... I wish I knew if the problem was with the thinning for an airbrush or whether shooting it with a gun and thus a denser coat would solve the lifting problem...If so I would shoot it on the entire airframe. But I have a lot of taping to do once the white is down...and if it were to lift, for whatever reason, I would be screwed...I know that Klass kote would not lift and thus my question about putting it over a roughened Klass Kote white undercoat. Frankly...I have never had a paint lift before...Primer pull off..because I was stupid, yes...but never have I had paint lift from the primer.
Old 04-15-2014, 01:50 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Chad Veich
Let's not forget the Latex will need some sort of clear coat to be fuel proof if you are using a glow motor. Not so with the Warbird Colors as long as you use the cross linker. (Wonder if the cross linker would work for Latex?)
chad , i've heard that the WBC needs a clear over it weather you use gas or glow. that's what the WBC guy on the phone told me. I'm not trilled about a paint that has a mechanical bond over chemical bond . i want to shoot my byron corsair but i'm still on the fence about what to use. BRING BACK CHEVRON PERFECT PAINT !!
Old 04-15-2014, 01:59 PM
  #54  
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I thinned my paint approximately 40-60, water to paint, on my Stuka. I did not experience your problems. My lifting was over nonprimed, nonsanded metal.

My Stuka was painted three colors in 12 hours, with two colors getting masked.. the paint set up quickly, and stayed put.I would have absolute configdence in applying WBC on expensive airframes, like my Stuka .

I had no trouble spraying yellow and white over the green camo, when using stencils.. It covered in 7 coats, the same amount sprayed for the camo colors. I used aerosol automotive primer, with no associated adhesion difficulties. Masking was done with 3M fine line tape. You can see, in the attached pics, that stencils were used extensively on my airframe.

If you were even close to getting runs, the paint was applied too heavily. Patience is the key, when painting. Time must be taken to do a proper job. Light coats, especially the first ones. Then heavier coats can be applied. The last coat can be the more traditional "wet" coat. Applying heavy coats causes problems. The paint takes longer to dry, too.

I feel that your problems are coming from somewhere besides the WBC. Proper surface preperation, taping, spraying, and tape removal techniques must be observed. Failure in any one of these areas can cause the problems you have listed.
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:32 PM
  #55  
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Tom...thanks for the comments...your input helps greatly. The plane is beautiful by the way... I am doing everything you have mentioned. Everything. The paint I am spraying is setting quickly...my thinning is almost yours probably 50/50. I am getting acceptable coverage, no runs, the only problem I am having is the paint lifting under the 3M tape. Any masking tape has no effect on the white...I am getting ready to tape over the red just painted today and will shoot yellow hopefully with your 40/60 ratio and then we will see if the red and white hang together and both hold to the primer. But thanks for your comments, I just wish I was not on this forum with this problem.
Old 04-15-2014, 02:37 PM
  #56  
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WBC paint drys flat...flat and mares very easily. I could not imagine not protecting it with a clear coat of some kind...
Old 04-15-2014, 02:48 PM
  #57  
Edwin
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Just a comment on my experience, I used WBC primer and had no problems. I tried rustoleum primer and had some minor problems with tape. But overall, rustoleum seemed to work ok. Just a small spot gave me issues so I figured some contamination got in there some how.
edwin
Old 04-15-2014, 03:08 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by TomCrump
I thinned my paint approximately 40-60, water to paint, on my Stuka. I did not experience your problems. My lifting was over nonprimed, nonsanded metal.

My Stuka was painted three colors in 12 hours, with two colors getting masked.. the paint set up quickly, and stayed put.I would have absolute configdence in applying WBC on expensive airframes, like my Stuka .

I had no trouble spraying yellow and white over the green camo, when using stencils.. It covered in 7 coats, the same amount sprayed for the camo colors. I used aerosol automotive primer, with no associated adhesion difficulties. Masking was done with 3M fine line tape. You can see, in the attached pics, that stencils were used extensively on my airframe.

If you were even close to getting runs, the paint was applied too heavily. Patience is the key, when painting. Time must be taken to do a proper job. Light coats, especially the first ones. Then heavier coats can be applied. The last coat can be the more traditional "wet" coat. Applying heavy coats causes problems. The paint takes longer to dry, too.

I feel that your problems are coming from somewhere besides the WBC. Proper surface preperation, taping, spraying, and tape removal techniques must be observed. Failure in any one of these areas can cause the problems you have listed.
wow that was a bad winter in Germany judging by the snow depth the stuka is sitting in LOL :-)
Old 04-15-2014, 04:52 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Daveyrt
Tom...thanks for the comments...your input helps greatly. The plane is beautiful by the way... I am doing everything you have mentioned. Everything. The paint I am spraying is setting quickly...my thinning is almost yours probably 50/50. I am getting acceptable coverage, no runs, the only problem I am having is the paint lifting under the 3M tape. Any masking tape has no effect on the white...I am getting ready to tape over the red just painted today and will shoot yellow hopefully with your 40/60 ratio and then we will see if the red and white hang together and both hold to the primer. But thanks for your comments, I just wish I was not on this forum with this problem.
Pull your tape after the paint starts to set. Don't let it sit overnight.I remove mine as soon as I can.

I have never been a fan of clear coat. In my opinion it provides an unrealistic look to the finish of a warbird.

Warbirds aren't supposed to be pretty. LOL I actually put scratches into the finish of my Stuka.I don't worry about marring the finish.
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Old 04-16-2014, 04:24 AM
  #60  
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Hey Tom...I hear you...my paint is going on a 1/4 scale Sukhoi 26m scratch built. A show bird! Not all warbird paints have to go on warbirds!! Chuck did an incredible job matching the Pink off a photo of the only 26 at the Paris Airshow in 87... So baring it goes through a Russian winter like yours it will have to have a clear coat...not too many dull show birds flying...but that will be a big sigh of relief to seal this paint and not worrying it will flake of in the air!!!!! I will give the tape thing a try...I usually do pull it soon after the paint sets especially epoxy paint...but your advice is well taken with Latex.

rick
Old 04-16-2014, 08:06 AM
  #61  
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I think I know what is going on with this paint. Since I raged on Warbird Colors paint in the last few days, I figured I owed you all and them a bit of what I learned. No thanks to Warbird by the way. Except for Chuck telling me in an email to try 240 grit on the primer.

Here is what I learned that is not on the website...first I have been working on two small projects...two wheel pants about a foot long, so painting with my touch up gun was stupid...use the airbrush. The airbrush was clogging and spitting at the 20 and 30% thinning so I added water and things smoothed out at 50/50. First mistake.

Tom Crump suggested 40% and that worked just fine and was the key to success.

Second, very few of you were having problems so that told me it is something I am doing...the light dawned when someone mentioned not clear coating. All the paint I had applied to this point was Dull, Dull, Matte absolutely no shine. It was the thinning! I was doing like Chuck recommended spray light coats and several, but his two or three with a wet top coat was no where close to covering because I was spraying mostly water. Then thinking about it, this paint does not interact with the primer to bond like Lacquer or Epoxys. It bonds like a band aid to your finger, with its own glue and if there is not enough glue to grab onto the primers surface then it will let go and lift when pulled on with striping tape. The key was having enough paint (not WATER and paint) laid down with enough glue to bond to the primer or whatever it was being sprayed onto...when you do that, the paint will have a semi-gloss sheen to it and not a matte finish.

That was the key....more paint....less water....= a paint that will stick. Do it the way I was doing it and it will lift...spray it onto a smooth primer and it will lift. spray it on finger prints and it................enough said. I think the paint will be fine for my larger project once I switch over to the touch up gun.

rick
Old 04-16-2014, 08:33 AM
  #62  
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FYI Iwata makes a great air brush with a larger needle that works super with WC paints. Over thinning is the root to many problems with paints. Glad you found useful information.
Old 04-16-2014, 09:04 AM
  #63  
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Bob thanks man....I will look into it. I love the air brush Iwata makes a great product. And everyone on the forum did help me zero into what was happening...thanks. I was getting frustrated and worried I had over a $100 in paint that was going to be worthless because I didn't trust it....I imagined me asking the wife if there was anything she wanted painted Sukhoi Pink around the house....

Rick
Old 04-16-2014, 12:15 PM
  #64  
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Rick.
Glad we could help you.. that pink will look awsome on the plane.!! I saw the original sukohi with that scheme.. very cool!
Old 04-16-2014, 12:40 PM
  #65  
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Bob...thanks this one is all decked out in with rivets, screws the works...the entire fuselage of the real plane can be taken apart with a standard screwdriver but the wings are molded carbon fiber not a screw or rivet...Russian's...go figure......and modeled after # 4. this shot is at the Paris Airshow in 87 the first production version. Chuck at WC did a great job matching the color and as you can tell I am just about to shoot it.
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Old 04-16-2014, 03:20 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Daveyrt
Hey Tom...I hear you...my paint is going on a 1/4 scale Sukhoi 26m scratch built. A show bird! Not all warbird paints have to go on warbirds!! Chuck did an incredible job matching the Pink off a photo of the only 26 at the Paris Airshow in 87... So baring it goes through a Russian winter like yours it will have to have a clear coat...not too many dull show birds flying...but that will be a big sigh of relief to seal this paint and not worrying it will flake of in the air!!!!! I will give the tape thing a try...I usually do pull it soon after the paint sets especially epoxy paint...but your advice is well taken with Latex.

rick
I'm sorry that I assumed that you were painting a warbird.

My inquisitive mind wonders why you selected a flat finish for your Sukoi.
Old 04-17-2014, 04:44 AM
  #67  
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Hi Tom...You always, if you can, shoot flat, especially if there are different colors. It comes from the old Lacquer days. If you intend to have a final product with a semi or gloss Clear Coat its much easier to shoot flat than gloss over gloss over gloss. Adhesion is better also. You are not roughing up your gloss under layer to shoot another color coat over it. And I always shoot a clear coat even if it is satin to protect the paint and the graphics even if I am shooting stencils. The clear coats these days are incredibly tough and resist hangar rash very well. When you shoot a project like the one in your picture with flat you are scratching, touching, marring the actual pigments of the paints...in your case if you were to put a satin clear coat over your end result, you would be amazed at how tough the surface would be to resist fingerprints, hangar rash, even flight rash. And remember my Sukhoi will have smoke on it...so protecting the details like screws and rivets...panel lines etc. from the oil residue mandates a clear coat. So that's why Flat first, Clear second.

Rick
Old 04-17-2014, 06:06 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Daveyrt
Hi Tom...You always, if you can, shoot flat, especially if there are different colors. It comes from the old Lacquer days. If you intend to have a final product with a semi or gloss Clear Coat its much easier to shoot flat than gloss over gloss over gloss. Adhesion is better also. You are not roughing up your gloss under layer to shoot another color coat over it. And I always shoot a clear coat even if it is satin to protect the paint and the graphics even if I am shooting stencils. The clear coats these days are incredibly tough and resist hangar rash very well. When you shoot a project like the one in your picture with flat you are scratching, touching, marring the actual pigments of the paints...in your case if you were to put a satin clear coat over your end result, you would be amazed at how tough the surface would be to resist fingerprints, hangar rash, even flight rash. And remember my Sukhoi will have smoke on it...so protecting the details like screws and rivets...panel lines etc. from the oil residue mandates a clear coat. So that's why Flat first, Clear second.

Rick
Rick

Thanks for the explanation.

I prefer to take a different route, but that's what makes this such a great hobby. We have multiple avenues to success.
Old 04-17-2014, 07:44 AM
  #69  
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I saw that plane with that color scheme when the Russians first came to the US in the 90s. The wings were stressed to something like a positive 24 Gs and a negative 27Gs!
Old 04-17-2014, 11:59 AM
  #70  
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I had friends who visited the Soviet Union for a rocket contest and the Soviet Aerobatic team had their planes at the near by airport. They sent me several photos and that plane was among them. I had modeled Jurgis Kairys's plane that was green and yellow with a flying alligator painted on the side. He was the world champion that year but the last I heard had disappeared in Lithuania.



If you are having issues with this paint you should contact the manufacturer they would want to know and are usually happy to help. Sometimes you can get a batch that is not quite right. It is rare to have that occur but it has, does and will happen now and then.
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Old 04-17-2014, 01:39 PM
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Hey Jack...and Bob...We need to get this out to people and I don't know how...WBC recommends sealing their paint with a Clear Coat...like Klass kote Clear Coat...that's all they say...

I just called Klass Kote to ask if there was anything special about applying their Clear or was it like other clears and you apply several wet coats. They said, and I Quote! Mist coat for two coats over WBC paint to seal it. Make sure the paint is flashed before the second mist coat but make sure the paint is sealed with light coats...then apply the wet coat. They said if you put a wet coat directly onto WBC paint, it will Lift the paint !!!!!!!!! And the guy was fanatic about that last comment.

And Jack...contacting the manufacturer is like pissing into the wind. When you get a chance to talk to Chuck or email him...it is very quick...because you are told...."I have a Day Job". He has never responded to my emails explaining my problem past saying to use 240 sandpaper. That's why I ended up on the forum to see if I could get some help from people using the product...and It was very helpful....

Oh! Bob...the Sukhoi 26 was a student project initiated by Sukhoi with impossible parameters. When the rookies in the company came up with the plane and their top aerobatic pilot flew it .... well the rest is history. And you are correct about the G loads!!!

I saw this plane hang on the prop at an airshow in Waco in 89 ... 30 feet off the ground in front of the crowd...smoke on!!!! I will never for get that sight!
Old 04-18-2014, 04:32 PM
  #72  
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That is a real shame when there is little or no support when a problem is encountered with a product. I know I am very leery of using any paints I am not familiar with. When I had problems with a molding compound I had used for a few years I called the company and they were on it right away and communication was almost over the top. In the end they pulled all their stock of that product as something was done wrong in the mix. They sent me free a replacement after a new batch was mixed...AND THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE!

These paints were recommended to me for my current project but now I will really have think about that.
Old 04-19-2014, 04:31 AM
  #73  
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Jack I won't pull any punches...the bedside manor of WBC really sucks and I am a patient man until you take advantage of that. I have had NO response back from them asking for advice...Their responses on this site are defensive and arrogant. The email I got from Chuck was short and not very helpful certainly no info about their product above what is on the website...I think he mixes paint and thought he would get into a garage business on the side....at least that is what it feels like from my experience with them.

Go with Klass Kote...they were helpful......over the top with advice...and I just shot their clear over WC and it went on nicely...I would go with them and their colors, and custom mix, in a heartbeat if I had it to do over again!
Old 05-13-2014, 11:41 AM
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Hey Bob...are you the one that told me to thin WarBird Colors with Windshield washerfluid? Does that work and anything to watch out for? What about the detergent in the fluid and the color?

Rick
Old 05-13-2014, 11:48 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Daveyrt
Hey Bob...are you the one that told me to thin WarBird Colors with Windshield washerfluid? Does that work and anything to watch out for? What about the detergent in the fluid and the color?

Rick
That's what I used, and it worked great. I used the blue stuff. If anything, I think the detergent helps to break surface tension in the paint and makes it flow out easier. I used the blue tinted stuff and it did not have any noticeable effect on the colour. I was using dark grays and greens. If you are using light colours, it would pay to do a test patch first.

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