Aeronca Champ Possiblity?
09-03-2003, 12:05 AM
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Aeronca Champ Possiblity?
Is this a reasonable approach to building a Champ?
I was toying with the idea of kit bashing a Pica Aeronca Sedan into a tandem seat Champ 7AC.
It would require narrowing each former to convert the side-by-side seat arrangment of the Sedan to the Cublike tandem seating. Consequently the cowl would need to be sectioned and shortened to more closely match the Champs. The wing would need to have some dihedral built into it. The wing struts would need to be highly modified into twin units- similar to a cub's. Of course the windshield would have to be scratch built as I don't know how to modify the original.
What else would I have to do other than some possible tail reshaping?
Any advice from Champ lovers?
Thankx
I was toying with the idea of kit bashing a Pica Aeronca Sedan into a tandem seat Champ 7AC.
It would require narrowing each former to convert the side-by-side seat arrangment of the Sedan to the Cublike tandem seating. Consequently the cowl would need to be sectioned and shortened to more closely match the Champs. The wing would need to have some dihedral built into it. The wing struts would need to be highly modified into twin units- similar to a cub's. Of course the windshield would have to be scratch built as I don't know how to modify the original.
What else would I have to do other than some possible tail reshaping?
Any advice from Champ lovers?
Thankx
09-04-2003, 04:32 PM
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Aeronca Champ resources
Gary,
As the Aeronca Sedan was actually a VERY different design than the Champ, I would make things simpler and use one of the many Champ plans available. Check the Model Airplane News website's PLANS section, and same for R/C Modeler. I know there is a large (1/4 scale?) and well-detailed plan for the Champ 7AC via one of those two sources.
If you're interested in a smaller model, the DUMAS kit company has a simple 7AC Champ laser-cut kit of about 36" span...I'd think it would work well with rubber power, electric or small 2-cycle.
John in Boston
p.s. If anything, the circa-1946 update of the Aeronca 11-series "Chief" was far closer to the 7-series Champ. In fact, it utilized the very same wing, control surfaces, lift struts, instrument panel, fuel tank, main landing gear, cowl, tail feathers, and tailwheel assembly as the Champ. The only difference I know of was the slightly wider cabin...necessitating I assume a different windshield, and of course other cabin items.
The old Comet Models made an age-old kit of this postwar Chief, 54" span, and it is still fairly common in older hobby shops especially.
But note too that the PRE-1941 "Chief" was different; it more closely came from the mid-1930s "K" and then the TA/TL/TC "Tandem" series design...e.g. this earlier Chief had an unbalanced rudder, slightly different tail outlines (I think), different engine/cowl/intake baffle details, and surely other smaller items. If I recall correctly the Champ was designed later...in 1944...and the postwar Chiefs sprang quickly from this Champ.
As the Aeronca Sedan was actually a VERY different design than the Champ, I would make things simpler and use one of the many Champ plans available. Check the Model Airplane News website's PLANS section, and same for R/C Modeler. I know there is a large (1/4 scale?) and well-detailed plan for the Champ 7AC via one of those two sources.
If you're interested in a smaller model, the DUMAS kit company has a simple 7AC Champ laser-cut kit of about 36" span...I'd think it would work well with rubber power, electric or small 2-cycle.
John in Boston
p.s. If anything, the circa-1946 update of the Aeronca 11-series "Chief" was far closer to the 7-series Champ. In fact, it utilized the very same wing, control surfaces, lift struts, instrument panel, fuel tank, main landing gear, cowl, tail feathers, and tailwheel assembly as the Champ. The only difference I know of was the slightly wider cabin...necessitating I assume a different windshield, and of course other cabin items.
The old Comet Models made an age-old kit of this postwar Chief, 54" span, and it is still fairly common in older hobby shops especially.
But note too that the PRE-1941 "Chief" was different; it more closely came from the mid-1930s "K" and then the TA/TL/TC "Tandem" series design...e.g. this earlier Chief had an unbalanced rudder, slightly different tail outlines (I think), different engine/cowl/intake baffle details, and surely other smaller items. If I recall correctly the Champ was designed later...in 1944...and the postwar Chiefs sprang quickly from this Champ.
09-04-2003, 08:19 PM
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Champ
The Aeronca Champ is still in production--sort of. After Aeronca stopped building them, a company called Bellanca built them under their name for a while. Then a company called Champion Aircraft built them for a while and now a company called American Champion builds them. The "7" series (Aurora, Adventurer and Explorer) that American Champion builds now are basically updated Champs... The "8" series are vastly different airplanes (Scouts and Explorers).
So if you want a smaller airplane, the SIG Citabria might be a good start for you. I think the major changes would be the outlines of the rudder and elevator and the shape of the cowl.
BTW, Bud Nosen (same as A&A Industries) use to sell a giant scale Champ and a .40 size Champ. You see them now and then on eBay pretty cheap because they leave a lot to be desired.
Hope this helps,
-BOb George
So if you want a smaller airplane, the SIG Citabria might be a good start for you. I think the major changes would be the outlines of the rudder and elevator and the shape of the cowl.
BTW, Bud Nosen (same as A&A Industries) use to sell a giant scale Champ and a .40 size Champ. You see them now and then on eBay pretty cheap because they leave a lot to be desired.
Hope this helps,
-BOb George
09-05-2003, 05:39 PM
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Aeronca Champ Possiblity?
ikon north west has a champ kit. a buddy of mine is building one right now and it is one of the coolest planes ever, not easy to build though
09-05-2003, 05:53 PM
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Aeronca Champ Possiblity?
Thanks to all responders.
I was hoping for a kit rather than a scratch built project although when bashing it almost becomes scratching. I understand the Pica kit is not particularly easy. I forgot about the IKON kit, too.
Thanks again!
I was hoping for a kit rather than a scratch built project although when bashing it almost becomes scratching. I understand the Pica kit is not particularly easy. I forgot about the IKON kit, too.
Thanks again!
09-07-2003, 12:03 AM
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Aeronca Champ Possiblity?
In my opinion, reworking the Sig Citabria will yield the best looking and flying Champ. There are easier kits to build out there, but Sig got it right scale wise, at least they got it better than anyone else. The Aeronca/Champion Aircraft/Bellanca/American Champion 7 series aircraft, which includes the Champ and later the Citabria variants, all evolved from the C series flying bathtubs, and share it's triangular fuselage cross section. The upper fuse shape comes from plywood formers and wood stringers. The result is a very distinctive shape that just about nobody gets right. For kits, Sig gets close enough for me. As owner of a full size 7ECA Citabria, former owner of a 7AC Champ and 1941 65CA Chief I'm pretty particular.
To make a Champ out of the Sig kit you'll naturally have to change the shape of the rudder and side windows, change the cowling, make round wingtip bows, etc. The hardest part will be replicating that bulbous Champ windshield. Then the oleo gear will provide a bit of a challenge. Should be doable with lightweight steel tubing, springs and ingenuity.
I wouldn't waste my time with the Nosen/AA kits, unless you're not really picky about scale accuracy. Also, they aren't great in terms of wood quality and parts fit in my experience.
Hag
To make a Champ out of the Sig kit you'll naturally have to change the shape of the rudder and side windows, change the cowling, make round wingtip bows, etc. The hardest part will be replicating that bulbous Champ windshield. Then the oleo gear will provide a bit of a challenge. Should be doable with lightweight steel tubing, springs and ingenuity.
I wouldn't waste my time with the Nosen/AA kits, unless you're not really picky about scale accuracy. Also, they aren't great in terms of wood quality and parts fit in my experience.
Hag
