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  1. #1
    warks62's Avatar
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    US Scale Masters Results 2012

    Anyone that is interested here are the results for 2012. Congrats to all that could make it and all who made it happen. You can also go to the USSMA website I am sure that pics will be posted soon.

    http://www.usscalemasters.org
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Randy, Enjoying Warbirds

  2. #2

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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    Any matchup on who flew what airplane?

  3. #3
    warks62's Avatar
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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    Have not seen that list yet hope that Mitch posts that soon along with pics.
    Randy, Enjoying Warbirds

  4. #4

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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    Congrats to my fellow One Eighth Air Force club members Jay Steward, Curtis Kitteringham, Austin Goodwin, and Mike Peck for their outstanding showing at the USSMA championships. You guys done us proud!

  5. #5
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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    Yes Chad and Mike Peck getting a second lifetime award isnt bad either. Well done....
    Randy, Enjoying Warbirds

  6. #6

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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    smooth pass

  7. #7

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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012


  8. #8
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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    How rare is it for someone to get a perfect 1000 on static score? Also, are there any photos of this perfect scale model? Or even just an indication of which aircraft it was?

  9. #9

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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    I didn't receive a perfect score for my F86F. The scoring system is showing 1000 points for winning high static which would also be scored to pilot who has best flight score in a round. I too could not imagine a perfect score unless built by Mr G Mears . This was my first visit to Scalemasters competition and just wanted to say how much I enjoyed meeting a bunch of friendly folks!! Also wanted to thank Mike Barbee for being my caller !! Thanks to the organizers and Mitch for their hard work!! Scott
    If it works use it,USA JWM TEAM MEMBER

  10. #10
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    Thanks for the clarification. Congratulations on your winning model and winning flying skills!!!

  11. #11
    warks62's Avatar
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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012


    ORIGINAL: abufletcher

    How rare is it for someone to get a perfect 1000 on static score? Also, are there any photos of this perfect scale model? Or even just an indication of which aircraft it was?
    This year was the first year that they scored on a curve. Scott is correct, In static the person who recieved the highest score gets perfect. Then from that point on it is reduced by percentage. In other words if second highest static was 2% lower than 1st then his score is reduced 2% from 1000. In flight same thing. Who ever had the highest flight score for that round gets 1000 and then by percentage it drops from there. IMAC has been doing this for years for flight scoring and is supposed to help even the playing field. You can still see your raw scores just like before. I have not seen both scores to see if it made a difference in final placement. I do have friends that compete in IMAC and they all feel it is a better way of scoring. Hope this helps.
    Randy, Enjoying Warbirds

  12. #12

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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012


    ORIGINAL: abufletcher

    Thanks for the clarification. Congratulations on your winning model and winning flying skills!!!
    Thanks , I did study the raw scores also and to my surprise is did effect final placement. Bob Patton and I briefly discussed if normalization would have made a difference. I guess it does? He had an awesome plane and flew it very well. Might have a Bulldog in my hanger one day. Congrats again Bob. Till next time. Scott
    If it works use it,USA JWM TEAM MEMBER

  13. #13

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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    Nobody took any pictures of the event?

  14. #14

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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    Congratulations you guys!!! Sorry I missed the event, sounded like a lot of fun.

    I was very interested to see how this new scoring format would work out, and it sounds like it was received really well, very good to hear!!

    Well done Scalemasters, and all those involved.

    John

  15. #15
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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012


    ORIGINAL: Chad Veich

    Nobody took any pictures of the event?
    This is what I got from Curtis all I have.....
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    Randy, Enjoying Warbirds

  16. #16
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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

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    Randy, Enjoying Warbirds

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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    OK....I guess I am one who doesn't like the normalization....especially in static. Seems to me it makes the contest a "flying" contest. Some guys may build
    better than 2% than the next guy...and in many contests there may be 2 or 3 static scores that are the same. What do you do then? I won't attend another one
    with normalization. Just my 2 cents worth.

  18. #18
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    Sounds to me like they just adjusting the ends of the continuum. The guy who gets the highest score in either static or flying established the benchmark for 1000. Then (from the explanation above) the next guy doesn't just get an automatic 2% reduction. Rather if the second guys score was (for example) 10% less in raw points than the first place guy (which seems to never happen at scale contests) then the second place guy would get a 10% reduction on that 1000 score, i.e. 900.

    What I can't understand is why organizers would want to "level the playing field" at a contest. It's a CONTEST.

  19. #19
    warks62's Avatar
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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    My suggestion is to email our National Chairman "Bernie Boland" and or either the Vice West or East Chairman your Pros or Cons to this new scoring system. It is the best to let them know your thoughts on this. I feel that feedback would be appreciated and needed so they can see what is important.
    Randy, Enjoying Warbirds

  20. #20

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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    Warks...I have emailed both Bernie and Mike prior to this post....and I expressed my concerns in Indiana.
    Using the normalization did change the outcome and finish for a couple of guys.
    Ed Newman

  21. #21

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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    I had heard that there were discussions about normalizing flying scores at upcoming Finals events. I think that it makes a ton of sense for flying. I'm still trying to wrap my head around what it's impact in static is.

    The fact is that there isn't really any reason to normalize scores in static since all aircraft in a given class see the same static judges. It's clear to me now that static scores were normalized to a basis of 1000 points this time because the flights were normalized to 1000. However, it's not necessary to do this. Flight scores could have been normalized to a basis of 100 points, which would allow us to maintain our standard maximum score of 200 points.

    The primary reason for normalizing flying scores is to even out differences in judging groups.

    All in all, I'm glad to see the movement forward and sure wish I could have been there!

    Jeff Lovitt.

  22. #22

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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    I should also add that I'm not familiar with how the flight lines were arranged, but it looks like from the scores that individual flt rounds were normalized against 1000 points.

    The primary reason for normalization is to even out the scoring differences between judge groups. I think that to only way to apply normalization to this situation, you would need to normalize flight scores based on judge groups. In this case, it would take all five rounds of the contest to arrive at a score and you would not know at any time in between where you were. This is because it takes five rounds for all of the expert pilots (for example) to get through a given judge set. By doing the normalization this way, I thnk you could offset the differences in judge groups scoring.

    Another method that will work without normalizing is to have every pilot of a given class fly each round in front of the same set of judges. This might be harder to manage in a contest because you need each group of pilots flying in front of the judges to be balanced so one line doesn't run long and delay the contest. But it does make sure that each pilot saw that same set of judges in that round. The high score is the high score and you could normalize or not. Makes no difference in this scenario.

    Just my thoughts...

    Jeff


  23. #23

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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    I am not a fan of "normalized" scoring.......especially when it is sprung on us at the last moment. I always thought that a contest was advertised and then was run by the printed set of rules. This "normalization" was not in the rules, so it did not set well with me. As it was explained at the contest, it leveled the field between judging groups. Some judges are very strict while other judges are somewhat less critical in arriving at flight scores. However, it has been my experience that all the judging has been consistent throughout most all the contests in which I have flown. Consistency is about the most important aspect to flight judging (in my opinion).

    So is "normalizing" actually necessary? It might be beneficial in flight scoring - I said might! I haven't arrived at a verdict for me yet.

    I was very surprized to see that our static scores were also "normalized". This is definately NOT NEEDED ! There are not sets of static judges, some strict and some less stridct, but only 1 set which scores every entry in a certain class.

    I finished 8th in the contest - this is the official listing. But look at what is called the "raw" scores and you will see that I finished in 9th place.
    If I were the man who finished behind me in the official standing I would not be pleased. I don't understand how this can happen!??

    As I understand it, this "normalized" scoring will be in place next year for the whole season. I think someone (Scale Masters higherarchy) needs to take a second look at this type of scoring.

    Here is my recommendation: Leave static scoring alone! Normalize the flight scores - but don't use 1000 points for the high score of the round - use 100 points for the high score of each round. This will leave us with a possible 200 points for the contest....the same as we have used for years.
    This addresses the different judging styles which was the only reason I heard for "normalizing".

    For what its worth......

    Art Shelton


  24. #24

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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    If everybody flies in front of the same judges and they act the same you would end up with the same place no matter if you "normalized" and averaged or just averaged. All it does is kill comparison because it has been washed. Sounds like political correctness for the complainers who think they are being cheated. If every contestant see the same people everyone has the same dissadvantage/ advantage.

  25. #25
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    RE: US Scale Masters Results 2012

    But that's just it. From what participants have said here, they DIDN'T FLY in front of the same judges so normalizing scores might make sense. But norming the static scores, where there was apparently only one group of judges, seemed to have only been a superficial attempt to make the numbers from each judging area look the same.


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