1/6th Scale HE-111
11-05-2012, 09:55 AM
#126
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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
I think it would be a good idea to plug these parameters into one of the newer flight simulators and confirm the flight qualities of an unconventional model like this.
I would not be very happy if I spent countless hours on a project like this and it turned out to have poor flight characteristics.
Personally I think this plane will fly with a nose high attitude, to me it has to if the wing incidence is negative, but I think I might understand that joe is thinking the lift on the wing is poor and needs a large positive incidence to maintain level flight so a lot of neg is needed on the stab.
I would not be very happy if I spent countless hours on a project like this and it turned out to have poor flight characteristics.
Personally I think this plane will fly with a nose high attitude, to me it has to if the wing incidence is negative, but I think I might understand that joe is thinking the lift on the wing is poor and needs a large positive incidence to maintain level flight so a lot of neg is needed on the stab.
11-05-2012, 10:36 AM
#129
Thread Starter
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
Looks cool but if I remember your more of a fighter guy and Idecided the next plane will be a simple single engine design before the grasshopper. a 1/4 scale KI-84 Frank with a 110.75 inch ws
11-05-2012, 10:58 AM
#132
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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
Dear Proflooney, this is a giant scale assignment & will need quite a long time with a high skill level which you have obviously. here are some queries about it.
Which material you have choosed for this,either only Balsa or combination of Fiberglass with Balsa ?
here seems that you will apply a tail dragger for the model ?
what's in your mind regarding it's power set-up ?
our best wishes for you & we hopefully expect that it will be completed in an average period,depends upon the consumption of time.
Warm regards,
Which material you have choosed for this,either only Balsa or combination of Fiberglass with Balsa ?
here seems that you will apply a tail dragger for the model ?
what's in your mind regarding it's power set-up ?
our best wishes for you & we hopefully expect that it will be completed in an average period,depends upon the consumption of time.
Warm regards,
11-05-2012, 11:09 AM
#133
Thread Starter
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
Hi Sam
It will be your standard with ply, balsa, and prob some fiberglass parts options
Yes the plane is a tailgdragger
Idont know for power quite yet. once Iget all the parts made from the lofts and assign the proper materials solidworks will show me the center of balance and the rough weight of the plane. Ihave found out from the WWIplanes I have designed that my software usually comes within a couple lbs of finished weight minus covering of fabric, because of the prog doesn't take into account glues etc.
That all said I am looking at a couple G-62 - 80CC depending on how heavy handed with the speed the pilot is. Itend to design on the lighter side so Ithink a couple G-62 would be fine. Icant afford it right now but Iwould love to see someone drop in a couple G-62 with reduction drive attached and turn some scale prop on it it would sound and fly really sweet
Dear Proflooney, this is a giant scale assignment & will need quite a long time with a high skill level which you have obviously. here are some queries about it.
Which material you have choosed for this,either only Balsa or combination of Fiberglass with Balsa ?
here seems that you will apply a tail dragger for the model ?
what's in your mind regarding it's power set-up ?
our best wishes for you & we hopefully expect that it will be completed in an average period,depends upon the consumption of time.
Warm regards,
It will be your standard with ply, balsa, and prob some fiberglass parts options
Yes the plane is a tailgdragger
Idont know for power quite yet. once Iget all the parts made from the lofts and assign the proper materials solidworks will show me the center of balance and the rough weight of the plane. Ihave found out from the WWIplanes I have designed that my software usually comes within a couple lbs of finished weight minus covering of fabric, because of the prog doesn't take into account glues etc.
That all said I am looking at a couple G-62 - 80CC depending on how heavy handed with the speed the pilot is. Itend to design on the lighter side so Ithink a couple G-62 would be fine. Icant afford it right now but Iwould love to see someone drop in a couple G-62 with reduction drive attached and turn some scale prop on it it would sound and fly really sweet
Dear Proflooney, this is a giant scale assignment & will need quite a long time with a high skill level which you have obviously. here are some queries about it.
Which material you have choosed for this,either only Balsa or combination of Fiberglass with Balsa ?
here seems that you will apply a tail dragger for the model ?
what's in your mind regarding it's power set-up ?
our best wishes for you & we hopefully expect that it will be completed in an average period,depends upon the consumption of time.
Warm regards,
11-05-2012, 07:46 PM
#134
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
ORIGINAL: ProfLooney
I went through tons of books drawings and websites to find how the airfoils were and for the most part I am satisfied with what I have some up with.
It seems the center section with the nacelles the ribs had a guppy like belly to them and from the inner panel to the tip it transitioned from the guppy rib into a symmetrical rib at the tip.
Secondly the transition from the center section to the tip dihedral isnt a sharp transition like on most planes but a nice smooth curve from the flat section up into the dihedral.
So Now I am starting setting up my loft on the wings and when I get that done will post some more pics. it will be one of my more challenging lofts.
Also the nacelles follow the angle of the dihedral but the landing gear is 90 deg to the ground so that will be interesting to see how all that retraction is going to take place.
I was able to get the center section to loft to my satisfaction on a flat plane and now I have to incorporate Dihedral. Now in the Dihedral there isn't a sharp bend it is swept upwards over a curve. I looked at vance's plans and he doesn't show a front view or anything on the Dihedral. so I have some good drawings from one of my books I need to enlarge and trace this morning then I can set up the Loft and away we go.
I went through tons of books drawings and websites to find how the airfoils were and for the most part I am satisfied with what I have some up with.
It seems the center section with the nacelles the ribs had a guppy like belly to them and from the inner panel to the tip it transitioned from the guppy rib into a symmetrical rib at the tip.
Secondly the transition from the center section to the tip dihedral isnt a sharp transition like on most planes but a nice smooth curve from the flat section up into the dihedral.
So Now I am starting setting up my loft on the wings and when I get that done will post some more pics. it will be one of my more challenging lofts.
Also the nacelles follow the angle of the dihedral but the landing gear is 90 deg to the ground so that will be interesting to see how all that retraction is going to take place.
I was able to get the center section to loft to my satisfaction on a flat plane and now I have to incorporate Dihedral. Now in the Dihedral there isn't a sharp bend it is swept upwards over a curve. I looked at vance's plans and he doesn't show a front view or anything on the Dihedral. so I have some good drawings from one of my books I need to enlarge and trace this morning then I can set up the Loft and away we go.
11-05-2012, 07:53 PM
#135
Thread Starter
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
gear looks great wouldn't like to share drawings would ya? and my plane be easy for you to use as just cut them by 50% and you'll have yer 12th scale.
11-05-2012, 08:07 PM
#136
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
ORIGINAL: ProfLooney
gear looks great wouldn't like to share drawings would ya? and my plane be easy for you to use as just cut them by 50% and you'll have yer 12th scale.
gear looks great wouldn't like to share drawings would ya? and my plane be easy for you to use as just cut them by 50% and you'll have yer 12th scale.
Maybe we could do a "Solid Model hostage exchange" I'm on SW too, but only do mechanical parts; no idea how to loft things... It was quite some effort to get all the linkages right and figure out how to make a couple of the parts. Its amazing how little you can be off and have the thing not retract at all. Once I figured it all out, I had a good appreciation for the talent of the original designers - its VERY strong at scale size and quite clever how it gets its strength and directs the load paths. My next set will be a bit bigger with full scale wheels too.Pic is kinda crummy - came out of e-drawings as I'm on the Mac right now. BTW, How do you scale stuff in SW? No obvious way? I tried scaling, but the dimensions stayed the same. Very odd. I'd like to do a base design and scale the whole assembly up and down if possible.
11-05-2012, 08:28 PM
#137
Thread Starter
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
I am using SW 2012 and would share with you if you have 2012.
If you look at the right at your feature manager at the top there is a configuration tab. you have to create a new configuration in order to scale in solidworks. you should join our solidworks group the engineers love my plane stuff and they always help me out with learning new stuff in solidworks or if I have problems. great place to find help when you need or see when they helping others. https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/swcad
If you look at the right at your feature manager at the top there is a configuration tab. you have to create a new configuration in order to scale in solidworks. you should join our solidworks group the engineers love my plane stuff and they always help me out with learning new stuff in solidworks or if I have problems. great place to find help when you need or see when they helping others. https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/swcad
11-06-2012, 04:38 AM
#138
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
ORIGINAL: ProfLooney
I am using SW 2012 and would share with you if you have 2012.
If you look at the right at your feature manager at the top there is a configuration tab. you have to create a new configuration in order to scale in solidworks. you should join our solidworks group the engineers love my plane stuff and they always help me out with learning new stuff in solidworks or if I have problems. great place to find help when you need or see when they helping others. https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/swcad
I am using SW 2012 and would share with you if you have 2012.
If you look at the right at your feature manager at the top there is a configuration tab. you have to create a new configuration in order to scale in solidworks. you should join our solidworks group the engineers love my plane stuff and they always help me out with learning new stuff in solidworks or if I have problems. great place to find help when you need or see when they helping others. https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/swcad
11-06-2012, 07:30 AM
#139
Thread Starter
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
it's not hard goto the configuration manager and right click and choose Add a new configuration
Next type in a name for the configuration and hit the green checkmark
Finally goto the main feature management Tab and then under the features menu at the top choose scale (You Might Have to Add it to the menu) and set it to whatever you want using decimal value in this demo case 1/2
Iuse origin all the time or it will screw up your assembly usually. All my stuff is drawn based on the location of the origin. if the stabs location is is say 5 inches above the origin and 76 inches back then my part is lofted there etc. that way Ijust have to mate the assembly together using just the front right and top planes. this is very important to draw this way even your individual partys. because if you mate a face together or some other thing and then have to go back and modify it later you get mateing errors etc. A really good auto engine engineer taught me those tricks. to mate that way and to always draw the part in the location it will be in an assembly. and Ihave never had problems and anyone Ishare drawings with never has a problem if they disassemble an assembly and put it back together.
You can also add a new configuration in an assembly but then you still have to goto each individual part and add the scale feature.
Next type in a name for the configuration and hit the green checkmark
Finally goto the main feature management Tab and then under the features menu at the top choose scale (You Might Have to Add it to the menu) and set it to whatever you want using decimal value in this demo case 1/2
Iuse origin all the time or it will screw up your assembly usually. All my stuff is drawn based on the location of the origin. if the stabs location is is say 5 inches above the origin and 76 inches back then my part is lofted there etc. that way Ijust have to mate the assembly together using just the front right and top planes. this is very important to draw this way even your individual partys. because if you mate a face together or some other thing and then have to go back and modify it later you get mateing errors etc. A really good auto engine engineer taught me those tricks. to mate that way and to always draw the part in the location it will be in an assembly. and Ihave never had problems and anyone Ishare drawings with never has a problem if they disassemble an assembly and put it back together.
You can also add a new configuration in an assembly but then you still have to goto each individual part and add the scale feature.
11-06-2012, 07:57 AM
#140
Thread Starter
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
ok after letting my mind settle down some and messed around a little on my 1/4 scale KI-84 Frank I am back at the Heinkel.
Due to adjusting the wings I now have to tweek the Nacelles and mainly just have to move them forward a little, but will know more as I dig in
11-06-2012, 08:32 AM
#142
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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
You are right dear, power set-up will be confirmed when the entire kit is complete & as far as G-62 80CC is in plan. than two engines will be on 160CC & provide significant power for thrust & will be compatible for thrust to weight ratio.
Keep it up & our best wishes for you.
Keep it up & our best wishes for you.
11-06-2012, 09:41 AM
#143
Thread Starter
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
BTW guys heres one of my 1/3rd scale WWI planes I did for the uk dawn patrol show team this is the first engine runups and it has flown successfully with almost no adjustments needed <xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s64cv8VAcUQ
It is a Roland CII Walfische
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It is a Roland CII Walfische
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11-06-2012, 06:09 PM
#144
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
Thanks for the SW tips! Not very intuitive, but will definitely try it! I'm not 100% sure what you mean about the origin, but I start every drawing off the origin.
I'm enjoying your build process; very interesting but beyond my current skill anyway. Your Roland CII is fantastic... too bad it doesn't have a scale motor to power it (another one of my hobbies
I checked out your website.. With your skill, why not build flying replicas? I used to have a W.A.R FW190, but want to do a two seater in aluminum like a Titan.....
I'm enjoying your build process; very interesting but beyond my current skill anyway. Your Roland CII is fantastic... too bad it doesn't have a scale motor to power it (another one of my hobbies
I checked out your website.. With your skill, why not build flying replicas? I used to have a W.A.R FW190, but want to do a two seater in aluminum like a Titan.....
11-06-2012, 06:23 PM
#145
Thread Starter
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
dont have and cant afford a pilots license lol or i prob would.
yes there are 3 different choices for scaleing. since I draw everything in its proper location if I dont use origin for scaleing then I cant do my front top and right planes for mating. I mate using only the front top and right planes. that way when others use the drawings if they move ofr change something they /I dont get any errors
I was taught by a very good engineer to never mate using points faces or anything else. that when you draw something you draw it where it is located on the part.
I know a lot of people draw everything on the origin and then mate it in proper place or just slide it where it supposed to be and it just floats around. thats not very good techniques as if it isnt mated it can move around. likewise if you mate the face of something to the face of something else and later find out you need to adjust something then you get errors. likeways for scaleing if you want to derrive different scales everything gets screwed up. so if you mate top front and right where it is supposed to go and scale using the origing the whole assembly will move together and you wont have to do anything
yes there are 3 different choices for scaleing. since I draw everything in its proper location if I dont use origin for scaleing then I cant do my front top and right planes for mating. I mate using only the front top and right planes. that way when others use the drawings if they move ofr change something they /I dont get any errors
I was taught by a very good engineer to never mate using points faces or anything else. that when you draw something you draw it where it is located on the part.
I know a lot of people draw everything on the origin and then mate it in proper place or just slide it where it supposed to be and it just floats around. thats not very good techniques as if it isnt mated it can move around. likewise if you mate the face of something to the face of something else and later find out you need to adjust something then you get errors. likeways for scaleing if you want to derrive different scales everything gets screwed up. so if you mate top front and right where it is supposed to go and scale using the origing the whole assembly will move together and you wont have to do anything
11-07-2012, 04:41 PM
#146
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
So unless I'm doing it wrong, I remember why I don't like scaling. It doesn't change the underlying dimensions. I'd really like to scale at the sketch level spawning a totally new part with the new dimensions. Is that possible?
11-07-2012, 09:16 PM
#147
Thread Starter
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
yea once you scale some thing if you have the scaled object active it should give new dimensions. Ill look as I am working on putting a DO 335 into Solidworks for a client lol luckily its the same as the HE-111 so I get to bounce back and forth. the 335 is finished but only in 2d i need to put it into 3d and test fits then i will be building the prototype its 1/6th scale electric and the guy did a very nice job of drawing it up.
11-08-2012, 05:26 PM
#149
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
ORIGINAL: ProfLooney
yea once you scale some thing if you have the scaled object active it should give new dimensions. Ill look as I am working on putting a DO 335 into Solidworks for a client lol luckily its the same as the HE-111 so I get to bounce back and forth. the 335 is finished but only in 2d i need to put it into 3d and test fits then i will be building the prototype its 1/6th scale electric and the guy did a very nice job of drawing it up.
yea once you scale some thing if you have the scaled object active it should give new dimensions. Ill look as I am working on putting a DO 335 into Solidworks for a client lol luckily its the same as the HE-111 so I get to bounce back and forth. the 335 is finished but only in 2d i need to put it into 3d and test fits then i will be building the prototype its 1/6th scale electric and the guy did a very nice job of drawing it up.
Wow.. you are doing all my favorite planes... I want to do both a He-111 and a Do-335 in 1/13 scale....
I still had some trouble with the scaling, but I'll figure it out. Thanks for all the tips!
11-08-2012, 05:48 PM
#150
Thread Starter
RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111
you can email me offline to [email protected] Ican help you wityh the scaleing.
Id still like to get a copy of those gear ya drew and could scale them and show you how it works.
lol and Ihave to keep my hand in the cookie jar since haven't had a job since well i wont go there but lets say our president hasnt helped my reg job so I started my own LLC doing all sizes models
Id still like to get a copy of those gear ya drew and could scale them and show you how it works.
lol and Ihave to keep my hand in the cookie jar since haven't had a job since well i wont go there but lets say our president hasnt helped my reg job so I started my own LLC doing all sizes models